Importing Excel Charts
Philip Fennessy
Thanks for your help.
Philip Fennessy
Many thanks to you. It's just as I have been led to believe.
Overall, this is a sad state of affairs and I hope Adobe do something about this soon.
Regards,
Phil
George Bilalis
and the measurement system Excel is using was always THE problem that any application sofar (ID is the first that does it so much better than even Excel itself) wasn't able to actually handle Excel work.
Thanks Adobe for saving the day!
George
Bob Levine
A fine work around, but I really prefer using CorelDRAW. It makes
reformatting the charts much easier as all the objects remain vector.
Bob
George Bilalis
we have had the option to do the same in Illustrator (and we did).
But since we really don't actually redraw the charts (only adjust size/resolution) this is working OK for us. Keeping the vectors is of course a more general approach and has more potential for any major re-arrangements.
Then, it still is with Excel (being so off-beat in defining dimentions) and I believe Adobe has done the best sofar interpreting it.
regards
George
Philip Fennessy
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank both of you for sharing your expertise, which has clearly come from working experiences.
I'm sorry for saying that the current options for importing excel charts are a "sad state of affairs". Unfortunately, I didn't have access to Illustrator at the time and I'm sure that this may well apply to others. However, I can appreciate Adobe's situation better now having read George's comments.
I wonder whether it would be alright to ask a few more questions. With respect to the Illustrator solution, I am trying to envisage the steps to be taken as being: open worksheet, right click and copy to the clipboard; open Illustrator and paste / paste special to a new document; edit image; save image as .ai or .eps; open InDesign document and place accordingly. Is this correct? If so, can I ask whether it's a simple matter of opening a blank Illustrator document with File > New prior to copy / paste. To be honest, I've not used Illustrator before.
Moving on, with regards to the solution proposed by George, can I ask whether the excel file initially needs to be saved as excel workbook or text (tab delim) or Unicode? Sorry, for this work, I've had to re-visit excel charts. Also, when you say "generate charts as separate sheets", do you mean clicking the option to place the chart on a new worksheet? Finally, when you say "taking care of size / resolution", are you referring to changing the size by moving the margins or some similar method rather than working with an embedded chart? How do you know the right size in Excel and what do you Save As in Excel? Am I right in thinking that the chart is first saved as TIFF in PS prior to placing in InDesign?
Perhaps it may also be interesting to do a screen capture with HyperSnap and save as a TIFF? I need to think about getting the optimal size and resolution for a brochure. Would be interested to know whether George changes image size from 72dpi (?) to 300 dpi in PS using his method.
Once again, thanks to both of you. This has certainly helped to put me on the right track and get a better appreciation of the subject from Adobe's perspective.
Regards,
Phil
Bob Levine
Personally I prefer CorelDRAW, but Illustrator will work the same way.
Illustrator doesn't have a paste special so just use paste.
If you're happy with the chart the way it looks just save as EPS and
then place in ID. You can also copy the chart from Illustrator and paste
into ID as long as you set Illustrator's preferences to use the AICB format.
If you're going to press with this job you'll also want to change the
color model from RGB to CMYK.
Bob
Philip Fennessy
Thank you.
I presume you're saying Save As EPS in Illustrator i.e. not Excel (not sure this is possible anyway). Is it OK to change colour mode in InDesign rather than Illustrator?
Must have a look at CorelDRAW at some future stage.
Best regards,
Phil
Ton Penterman
"Bob Levine" <rjlevine....@softhome.net> schreef in bericht
news:3DBEF216...@softhome.net...
> Yes, save as EPS from Illustrator. But please note my previous message.
> You can easily copy and paste from Illustrator to ID. In fact, it's the
> only reason I keep Illustrator on my computer.
>
> I always advise bringing CMYK into InDesign from the native application.
> There's less chance of a surprise this way. However with charts, I
> don't think the color is all that critical.
>
> Bob
>
Bob,
Do you already have a buyer for Illustrator?
Just copy/paste from Excel to ID.
In Excel select the graphic, *shift*Edit > Copy Picture; select both 'As
shown when printed'; et voilà.
Works at least for me (XP Pro, ID2.0.1, Excel 2002).
Regards,
Ton
Bob Levine
Bob Levine
just listed are why I didn't mention it.
Bob
Ton Penterman
A few additional remarks:
1. Colors will still be RGB;
2. There will be no editability;
3. The pasted picture in ID is probably a low res'ed one.
I'm not sure about the low res, but it does seem the case.
Alas...
Regards,
Ton
Philip Fennessy
Thanks for your response.
Regards,
Phil
Alex Knight
Is there a plugin for Excel to export high resolution vector files?
Alex Knight
David Earls
Bob Levine
in creating a PDF just to get it there.
Bob
Alex Knight
Best.
Alex Knight
akn...@petroleumargus.com
Tony Stuart
The simple way would be to use OLE, as can be done in Quark, but Adobe in its 'wisdom' has rejected OLE!
We use Quark to add many Excel RGB charts and tables to internal monthly management reports.
When we got ID2 I tried using it for these reports. Not having the luxury of OLE, my method was to place the original XLS file in the clipboard alongside the chart and use this to edit the data and the chart, and then I exported the chart from Excel as a PDF, which I then placed in position as an anchored frame. Tables I did within ID.
The printed result was much better than with Quark, but a drawback was that each month the XLS files had to be renamed in order to keep back data untouched. So the process was effective but not simple.
Eventually I was outvoted and I had to return to using Quark and OLE.
It is a pity that Adobe decided to reject OLE rather than letting its users decide. See the note on page 243 of the ID manual. Thanks a lot, Adobe. Your decision means that one of our major tasks remains with Quark when it could have gone to ID.
Jay Bloomfield
1) In the Windows Control Panel, set up the local printer to print to the port FILE: and under the Postscript Options, set the output type to EPS. Make sure the printer is in Portrait mode, both as a default and in Excel. WARNING: Landscape mode will not work(the chart will be clipped erraticly).
2) Go to Excel. Put the Excel chart on it's own sheet (although it will also work as an object embedded in a worksheet if you print "Selection") and print it to your color PS printer. Make sure you specify the EPS extension (call the file something like "Figure 25.eps"). Also explicity specify the output folder or it will end up in the same folder as the Excel file!
3) Open InDesign and place the EPS file. You will have to fiddle with adjusting the frame to remove white space, but with a little luck, you will have a high quality Excel chart.
4) This process cuts out the middle step of using Illustrator or Photoshop to convert the screen resolution bitmap to an InDesign-compatible graphic.
If you encounter any problems, I am interested in hearing about them. I have only tested this for InDesign 2.01 and Excel 2000 and Excel 2002 (Office XP).
Tony Stuart
What you describe works is fine for one-off jobs, except that going the direct PDF route from Excel works perfectly in InDesign. But what I think most people wanting to place Excel charts and tables in a layout program are after is to be able to keep a copy in the publication file that can be updated regularly, without having to constantly bring a graphic from outside.
Double-clicking on a chart and changing the data (and modifying the chart if necessary) and then jumping back to the layout program (i.e. OLE) is what you can do in QuarkXPress, PageMaker, Ventura and any other Windows program that has the Insert Object facility.
I am convinced that Adobe erred hugely in not allowing Insert Object in InDesign. The InDesign user should be allowed to decide whether or not 'file format, color, and resolution information when providing data through ... OLE' is being reliably preserved (InDesgn manual, p. 243).
Of course, if we are going to use an Excel object in a job being printed outside we tweak it in Illustrator for CMYK, but what Adobe needs to recognise is that InDesign is also used for internal corporate jobs where RGB charts are acceptable.
Jay Bloomfield
My suggestions were directed at the above posts which were even more circumspect than what I proposed. I have to disagree with you on OLE, though. It does work okay in Quark, but PM's OLE capabilities aren't much better than embedding the graphic in the PM file and setting it to auto update. And yikes, PM 7.0 is so old and crotchety, I can't believe I still think of using it. It's hardly worth the disk space.
I think Adobe made the right decision with InDesign, but I suspect it stems more from a mistrust of Microsoft. OLE is a Gate's gimmick from the get go and its never really fulfilled its promise. Just my two cents.
Tony Stuart
Although I have never used it very often in OLE mode, PM7 seems to work with Excel just as well Quark does. Insert the XLS file as an object and then edit it through a double click. Update the chart every month without ever worrying where the XLS file is stored. Sure works for us. Having OLE in InDesign doesn't mean that everyone has to use it. We like it for our internal reports and just wish that we could have used it in InDesign.
Gene Trujillo
Gene
Robert Ambos
--Bob
Scott McCullough
While Jay's workflow will work well for most rectilinear bar graphs, Excel pie charts are notorious for looking terrible in print. Since Excel (or any other M$ program, for that matter) doesn't export curves as Bezier vectors, pie charts tend to export with jagged edges that look like a kindergartner's art project. In addition, M$ programs generate all colors as RGB, and often have microscopic strokes and strange overprints.
Here's the workflow I use to generate smooth, high-resolution vector graphs from Excel for placement in ID, PM, etc. I've found it works well by printing to an Acrobat file printer, since it handles TT fonts from M$ programs accurately. I could probably use any of the high-res PS file printers I've installed on my system, but sometimes TT fonts don't encode correctly.
1. Open the XLS file and go to the desired graph (I often receive XLS files with dozens of graphs, each on its own worksheet). If there are several graphs on a worksheet, drag-select the graph you wish to export.
2. Select File/Print.
3. In the Print menu, select the desired printer (in my case, it's "Acrobat Distiller on File").
4. Click on the Properties button, then click on the Graphics tab. Set the resolution to 2400 or higher (the stock Acrobat PPD allows 2400 dpi max.) Click OK.
5. Just below the Properties button, click on Print to file. (This isn't absolutely necessary if you're sure you're printing to a file printer.)
6. At the bottom of the Print menu, under Print what, click on Active sheet(s). If you only want to output elements you drag-selected in step 1, click on Selection.
7. Click on OK, then navigate to the volume where you wish to write your PostScript. Save the file as "Chart #1.ps" or whatever.
8. Launch Illustrator, CorelDraw, or another vector-based drawing program. I'll refer to Illustrator 10.0 since that's what I use.
9. Either a) In Illustrator, select File/Open and navigate to the PostScript file or b) Go to your Explorer window and drag "Chart #1.ps" into your Illustrator window (my preferred method).
10. After Illustrator parses the file, you should see a gleaming, high-res version of the graph. If it's a pie chart, the curves should all be smooth (albeit composed of hundreds of points, since they're not bezier vectors). Unfortunately, it's still RGB, and may have strange overprint settings and sub-hairline strokes.
11. Go to File/Document Color Mode and change from RGB to CMYK.
12. Select the entire chart (drag-select or Control+A), then go to Filter/Colors/Convert to CMYK.
13. While the entire chart is selected, open the Attributes palette and turn off all overprints (strokes and fills). This overrides the idiotic overprint settings M$ programs sometimes apply.
14. While the entire chart is selected, go to Filter/Colors/Overprint Black. This traps all the colors to the black strokes.
15. If there are extremely fine strokes (thinner than 0.25 pt), select one of them and go to Select/Same/Stroke Weight. In the Stroke palette, set your desired stroke weight (I recommend nothing less than 0.5 pt for offset printing). Repeat until you've fixed all fine strokes.
16. Save As from Illustrator as an EPS file. I recommend Illustrator 8 compatibility, with 8-bit TIFF preview and a Transparent background.
17. (Note: This step isn't absolutely necessary, but it greatly minimizes font problems at the RIP.) Save As again to save a copy of the graph. In my workflow, I'd name this file "Graph 1 OL.eps." In the new file, select the entire chart and convert all type to outlines (Type/Outlines or Control+Shift+O). All your type is now converted to compound paths, which is non-editable as text but won't error out at the RIP.
18. Save and close the outlined file. It's ready to place!
19. Place the EPS in your page-layout file. When printed, it will look like it was drawn laboriously in Illustrator, not generated by a low-res office-productivity program like Excel.
Notes:
* I know this seems like a lot of steps, especially to people who are accustomed to an OLE workflow, but it's the only way to guarantee correct output for high-resolution printing. I've saved Illustrator Action sets that automate much of the work. By following a structured workflow, I can whip through dozens of charts an hour. Contact me offline if you'd like a copy of my Action sets.
* The steps above are for creating CMYK files. Modify the steps as appropriate for grayscale or spot color output.
Scott
Bob Levine
I agree with you on most of what you did, but I have to question why you
go through the whole procedure of creating a PDF from Excel. I've found
simply copying and pasting works just fine followed by the rest of you
procedures.
For the record, I do all this using CorelDRAW.
Bob
Scott McCullough
I don't create a PDF, I just write a PS file from Excel and open the PS in AI. (I used to take the extra step of distilling the PS file into a PDF, but I discovered I had better luck getting TT fonts to work by parsing the PS directly in AI). The benefit of writing PS vs copy/paste is that I can force Excel to render the curves @ 2400 dpi instead of 300 dpi. I've found when copy/pasting from Excel to AI curved elements don't render as smoothly.
Scott
Bob Levine
I've only done this using CorelDRAW and have had tremendous success with
copy and paste. Whatever works. :)
Bob
M Neff
It seems to me that the problem is that InDesign doesn't know how to link to the charts. Since it's a graphic, I'm not sure I'd want to use a publishing-dumb program like excel to create it. I'd prefer to add charting to InDesign which would use data in the document or, if I can dream, can link to external excel data!
My experience with OLE is that the output is dependent on the interaction between the two programs and I haven't been happy with the results. There's been discussion of all the tweaking that must occur to place the Chart optimally. OLE doen't do this for you - you get whatever the OLE programmers want to give you.
Stephen Cohen
MN
having most of the problems pasting Excel spreadsheets reported by others.
We usually paste the table in its own frame, and as long as the frame is
larger than the table, the table usually comes out exactly as it was in
Excel (sometimes cells are wider). All formatting is intact, merged cells
stay merged. Unfortunately, when we update the link, all formating changes
are lost... I'll have to add that to the wisk list.
My real question was: Why is MS's OLE desirable, and what functionality does
it give us (that we would want) that we don't have now?
M Blackburn
I think they're talking about charts and graphs specifically. Not tables.