Inline graphics overlap - leading problem?

Matt Miller

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Apr 16, 2003, 10:03:19 PM4/16/03

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Hi all,

I'm using InDesign to make Maths books and we place equations (EPS files) inline.

Due to the number of different sized equations I'm using Auto leading so I don't have to adjust for each one. This worked well in PageMaker.

However in InDesign if I have two equations one line after the other (separate paragraphs), they still overlap even with Auto leading. The only way I can see to fix it is to increase the space after the higher paragraph, however doing this in every case will take far too long.

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?
Perhaps someone could also explain a bit on how InDesign handles inline graphics and leading differently to PageMaker (if this is the case).

Dave Saunders

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Apr 17, 2003, 7:07:18 AM4/17/03

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There is really only one difference (as far as leading is concerned) between ID and PM. In PM, whenever you place (or paste) a graphic inline, Auto-leading is applied to the graphic no matter the leadiing of the surrounding text.

In ID, the leading applied to the inline is taken from the context of the surrounding text.

Personally, I found PM's behavior annoying and more of a nuisance than ID's behavior. But, I'll grant that it's easier to see what's going on in PM.

To get your inlines to behave the same way as in PM, select each with the text tool and apply auto-leading, or use a paragaph style that has auto-leading defined for it.

Dave

PS: I put that qualification into the first sentence because in all other respects, ID inlines run rings around PM inlines -- you can inline any frame in ID, so you can, for instance have an inline group or an inline text frame (which in turn could have inlines in it), etc. And, try making the inline the first character of a paragaph with a drop cap defined.

Matt Miller

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Apr 18, 2003, 2:36:20 AM4/18/03

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Thanks for the clarification Dave.

I was originally defining the leading, however when I ran into the overlapping inline graphics I changed to Auto leading, however the problem still occurred.

I'm not at work at the moment so I can't check, but my guess is perhaps that the inlines aren't overlapping with other inlines in the paragraph, but rather if there is an inline in the last line of one paragraph and an inline in the first line of the next paragraph they overlap.

So in other words it's probably not a leading problem at all. Increasing the space above/below the paragraph will solve the issue but is an undesirable approach due to the number of inlines involved.

I guess PageMaker not only applied autoleading but treated the inline as if it had some kind of wrap which stopped it from running into other paragraphs (although the user had no way to stop this wrap which was often a pain).

Anyone have any ideas on a better way to solve the problem than with paragraph spacing?

Dave Saunders

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Apr 18, 2003, 7:23:50 AM4/18/03

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Matt,

I promise you that the features are just about identical. I've used overlapping inline graphics in both PageMaker and InDesign (an eps file of call-outs that overlaps a place TIFF of a screen capture) and they work exactly the same.

The only differences are in the default states on import. If you were used to PageMaker's autoleading default combined with its proportional leading model, then InDesign will seem a bit strange in that it doesn't automatically switch inlines to auto and it uses baseline leading.

But both of these are easy to fix. The way I work, I have less to do in InDesign than I used to have to do in PageMaker.

Dave

Matt Miller

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Apr 19, 2003, 12:34:18 AM4/19/03

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Dave,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I certainly wasn't disagreeing with anything you have said.

I've just done a test here at home and the inline graphics work exactly as I would expect and as you have said they should - however it wasn't happening that way in my document at work.

I'll have to investigate it more when I get back to work next week (I'm on the second day of a 5-day weekend!).

I'll post back if I find the cause or if I still can't work it out!

Thanks,
Matt

Dave Saunders

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Apr 19, 2003, 8:45:33 AM4/19/03

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Matt,

A possibility in ID that's not present in PM is that a character style is getting in on the act and confusing things.

Which raises the point that for graphics that aren't consuming whole paragraphs, character styles can be used to make them behave the way you want, almost at a stroke.

Good luck.

Dave

Matt Miller

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Apr 22, 2003, 8:06:01 PM4/22/03

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Dave,

With auto-leading applied I can place the inline graphics line after line and they do not overlap.

However, once I have placed the equations (EPS files) I most often need to align them manually with the text around them, e.g. I might want a fraction line in an equation to line up horizontally with a subtract or equals sign in the text. I do this by clicking and holding the graphic and 'dragging' it up or down.

It is at this stage the graphics overlap, as the autoleading does not seem to make up for the manual dragging I do (whereas it seemed to make up for it in PageMaker).

Obviously I can increase the leading of each line manually but due to the frequency of this occurring it isn't a workable option.

Is there a better way to achieve the alignment I need without causing the graphics to overlap?

Or is there another solution to the problem?

PS. There are no character styles assigned.

Dave Saunders

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Apr 25, 2003, 5:21:23 PM4/25/03

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Matt,

I've been out all week and only just got back.

The only thing I can think of is that your auto-leading must have been set to a larger value in PageMaker. The two programs are just about identical in this regard.

Except that PageMaker defaults to "proportional leading" while InDesign uses baseline leading. This could be what is making the difference for you.

PageMaker automatically puts one third of the graphic below the baseline and two thirds above. InDesign puts it all above.

If your graphics are all the same height (or even just close) you can deal with this by using a character style to apply a baseline shift downwards equal to a third the height of the graphics and then apply that to all your inline graphics.

Dave

Matt Miller

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Apr 25, 2003, 7:50:14 PM4/25/03

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Thanks Dave

It sounds like the proportional leading VS baseline leading is the cause.

Autoleading in both programs is set to 120%.

Unfortunately the inline graphics come in all shapes and sizes, but I'll have a look to see if there are some cases where I can use character styles to help.

Thanks for all your help Dave :-)

Matt