Equations--How re You Doing 'Em?

[Sean]

[Sean]

I use equations, but they only need to be in FrameMaker.

FrameMaker's equation editor does just fine.

But, a co-worker much prefers Word's equation editor. While I see the same shortcomings in Word's equation editor that I see in FrameMaker's, I must admit FrameMaker's equation editor stopped aging gracefully in about 1994, and what used to be nice and powerful is now downright klutzy.

As I have mentioned before, I tried MathType a year back, but ran into font issues and MathType support told me they only support PS fonts--I use TTF. While I do note that Arnis' opinion differs from the support response I got, using MathType for equations that only get used in FM seems awkward, too.

All that being said, how are you creating equations for FrameMaker-only content? Are there any plug-ins I should try?

Output is going to press and online via PDF and HTML via WebWorks.

Cheers,

Sean

[Michael Kazlow]

Sean,
I believe Arnis said the Mathtype did better with TT fonts than ps fonts. I
have used both without a problem. The Windows version is more modern than
the Mac version, but Design Science has said that a new OS X version will be
available some day.

There are other tools that seem to be appearing like Math+Magic
[www.mathmagic.com] but depending upon project and needs I use either
Mathtype or Frame's own capability.

...Mike

[Sean]

Okay, it looks like we'll be getting MathType because of some difficulties using FrameMaker's native equation editor.

Does anyone have any tips and tricks with regards to using MathType for FrameMaker? (My plan is to use the Euclid TTF set and import the equations as EPS with a TIFF preview).

Cheers,

Sean

[thomas bro]

I use MathType and export/save/print - pick one - to EPS/PDF (again your choice).

keep smiling
thomas

[Arnis Gubins]

Sean,

Just a word of caution with the EPS files that MathType generate. It
includes only the font references, not the complete font. You have to
make sure that Distiller knows where the MathType fonts are located in
order to embed them in final PDFs.

It's even more complex when printing directly from FM - you may have
to include a dummy paragraph (white text in the margin) of math fonts
before the first EPS in order for the math characters to come out
properly.

[Sean]

Yuk.

Thanks for the head's up. I wish I knew that before I bought . . ..

Cheers,

Sean

[Sean]

It's even more complex when printing directly from FM - you may have to
include a dummy paragraph (white text in the margin) of math fonts
before the first EPS in order for the math characters to come out
properly.

Why is it more complex when printing directly from FrameMaker, and do I have to include each and every glyph in the FrameMaker?

Can anyone help me resolve an error with MathType in FrameMaker 7, WinXP, printing to a PostScript printer.

I have EPS equations in my FrameMaker file. Whenever I print to the Canon iR 105-M1 PS printer, I get the following error message printed on my output (no quotes):

"ERROR: invalidfont
OFFENDING COMMAND: findfont

STACK:

/Font
/EuclidSymbol
512"

I have installed MathType 5.1 using the default settings, which gives me the TrueType font set. My PostScript printer driver is set to download Native TrueType fonts and not to substitute fonts. I get the error even if I include in my FrameMaker some text (such as "test") to which the Euclid Symbol font has been applied.

Funnily enough, Acrobat has no such issues and it prints fine to PDF.

Am looking for greater enlightenment and understanding as well as a specific fix.

Cheers,

Sean

[Sean]

Ahhh, you're using MS Word. LOL!

[Bill Swallow]

0.13 drafting pen
steady hand
good paper
magnifying glass
glue

;-)

[Bill Swallow]

LOL!

I've used MathType with mixed results. I'd expect FM's equation editor to be just fine. But, I don't need equations in my documents, so I don't actively use these tools anymore.

Why not just make them in Illustrator and take screen shots of them? <ducking />

[Sean]

TrueType.

I tried one character (four actually) with no good result. (It works to PDF and from PDF to the *real* printer, just not to the "real" printer directly from FM 7.)

Cheers,

Sean

[Michael Kazlow]

Sean,

Are you using the postscript or tt euclid? For postscript fonts in eps files
that don't get downloaded, you should only need to include one
character---at least on a Mac. BTW, these problems were pretty common in
early versions of Frame, I haven't seen them happen in recent versions. Of
course that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

...Mike

[Arnis Gubins]

Sean,

Try running the EPS file through Distiller to see if it can find the
font.

When you create a PDF, Distiller knows where to look in order to embed
the fonts (since you should have told it where the MathType fonts are
located).

When you print directly, FM (rather the GDI) knows where to look for
the fonts (since they're activated at the system level) that are used
in a document and includes them in the print stream. However, if you
sneak in a font reference via an EPS file, your printer doesn't
receive the font info, since the print stream won't be carrying that
particular font. The printer can't go back out into your system to
look for the missing font. Hence, you get either get a findfont error
or a Courier substitution depending upon how the device is (factory)
setup.

SO, in order to get the math fonts to your printer - go the PDF route.
Let Distiller do all of the hard work to find the fonts and put them
in there. Then print from Acrobat for your hardcopy (and you get a
softcopy gratis <g>).

Note: MathType will let you set (and will display) Bold and Italic
styles even when there is no corresponding font, e.g. you could set MT
Symbol with Bold and Italic attributes, but it doesn't exist (only the
Italic does). This then gets included in the EPS as a "MT Symbol
BoldItalic" font reference and will cause Distiller to usually
substitute Courier (depending upon your joboptions). It's kind of up
to you to know what font variants you can and can't use.

[Sean]

It's fine for PDFs.

Rats. What a pain.

Cheers and thanks Arnis,

Sean

[Arnis Gubins]

You can always print your equation from MathType to Distiller and then
crop & export an EPS from the PDF. This EPS will then have all of the
font info and a preview as well. Either way, you end up going through
Acrobat at some point in your workflow.

[Sean]

Ugh.

Too bad the folks at MathType don't embed the fonts in the EPS.

Cheers,

Sean

[Sean]

I get a preview. I select EPS/TIF as the output (5.1).

Cheers,

Sean

[Arnis Gubins]

Or generate a preview. <g>

[Arnis Gubins]

Ooops,

I forgot that I had selected plain EPS for the Save As so that I can
go through the PS code in a text editor. The setting appears to be
sticky for all new files as well. It also does a WMF preview which
doesn't go over very well in FM.

[Se...@adobeforums.com]

UGH. MathType sorta stinks.

While I can and have successfully embedded all my other TrueType fonts, MathType TTFs don't. I added the fonts to the path in Distiller, added the TTFs to the Windows directory, set the Distiller Printer properties to download TTFs as softfonts and native TrueType ... etc., all the right stuff, but still the fonts were not coming into PDFs correctly.

Using MathTypes PS fonts seems to do the trick, for now (I would not bet on it).

Thus, I recommend everyone stick with FrameMaker's equation editor and, if you must use MathType, stay away from the (default) TrueType fonts and opt for the PS ones instead.

(Note to MathType: OTF, and check embedding of your PS fonts and TTFs in general.)

What a pain ....

Cheers,

Sean

[Se...@adobeforums.com]

For what it's worth, MathType support had this to say with regards to TTFs:

"The problem using the TrueType fonts is that we embed EPS files with the PostScript name of the TrueType fonts. Adobe products, such as Acrobat, do not. They expect that the EPS file has the system name for the font embedded. Neither method is any "more" correct than the other, but they are different and can cause these kinds of issues."

Personally, I go to press as well as PDF, and the "Adobe way" works for me, and I would like MathType to do fonts the "Adobe way."

But, the short of it is, the real-world answer: use the PS fonts.

Cheers,

Sean