Gen X Mormons attitude toward Authority

[Laura Hanson]

Hey,

I remember this was something we discussed years ago, back when Adam and I were on opposite sides. :)

I'm listening to a podcast discussing survey results of different generations of Mormons. In response to a question about who do you follow when your personal convictions tell you to do something different from what the general authorities of the church are saying, 2/3 of boomers said they would follow church leaders whereas Gen X was split 50/50. It's an interesting trend, one that I consider very positive.

Here's the podcast: https://pca.st/9774bvcj

Laura

[Eric Loumeau]

I didn't listen to the podcast, but I'm curious why you think it's a good thing that people are following their own convictions rather than listening to what the prophets tell us.  

Isaiah 55:8 ("For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.")

Proverbs 3:5 ("Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.")

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adam's Discussions" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to adams-discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CALsnLLA72wvy8ujX7jb7S%3D6nDpPuKnx7_9qoXHZ4XrjEbTGceQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[adam loumeau]

I don’t even remember this conversation Laura is referring to. I do want to listen to the podcast though. Gen X isn’t young so I’d be curious what the trend is for Millennials. 

On Thursday, November 21, 2019, Eric Loumeau <ejlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I didn't listen to the podcast, but I'm curious why you think it's a good thing that people are following their own convictions rather than listening to what the prophets tell us.  

Isaiah 55:8 ("For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.")

Proverbs 3:5 ("Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.")

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:33 AM Laura Hanson <hanson...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey,

I remember this was something we discussed years ago, back when Adam and I were on opposite sides. :)

I'm listening to a podcast discussing survey results of different generations of Mormons. In response to a question about who do you follow when your personal convictions tell you to do something different from what the general authorities of the church are saying, 2/3 of boomers said they would follow church leaders whereas Gen X was split 50/50. It's an interesting trend, one that I consider very positive.

Here's the podcast: https://pca.st/9774bvcj

Laura

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adam's Discussions" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to adams-discussions+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CALsnLLA72wvy8ujX7jb7S%3D6nDpPuKnx7_9qoXHZ4XrjEbTGceQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adam's Discussions" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to adams-discussions+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CAH%3Dbf8Sbzw9e906Tu0xOE0smHcOk49L5hqiYUz81QuO9X3s%3DTw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Laura Hanson]

Eric, that isn't an easy question to answer by email, but I'll try to give a clear short-ish answer.

First, church leadership includes more than just prophets. They are all people and thus imperfect.

Second, in most cases our convictions will align with what church leadership tells us.

I should clarify that when I speak of convictions I mean something more than an opinion. There are times when what we think is right is different from what we're told, and we go along with it anyway because it's not a big deal and obedience might not harm anyone. For example, deciding not to wear more than one pair of earrings after Pres. Hinckley's comments about earrings. Fine. I wouldn't consider this a serious breach of integrity.

Sometimes people are told to do things or not to do things, by local leaders or higher ups, that they feel at a deep level are wrong. Again, I'm not saying this is the norm, only that it does happen occasionally. In these situations, I believe the only moral thing to do is to follow our convictions. As Mormon stated, the spirit of God is given to everyone to know good from evil. The Apostle Paul said something similar stating that there is no excuse because God clearly makes himself known to all people. I believe that following our convictions in these instances is part of what it means to trust in the Lord with all your heart.

There's a popular idea circulating in the church that a person will be blessed for obeying in this kind of situation. I believe that notion is toxic. I have witnessed the pain that comes from it, both with close friends and ward members and even in my own family. It does not serve anyone. It actually teaches us to suppress the holy ghost working within us. It destroys instead of builds. The statistics I mentioned make me hopeful that perhaps within a generation or two, this false belief will lose popularity.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 4:57 PM adam loumeau <adaml...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t even remember this conversation Laura is referring to. I do want to listen to the podcast though. Gen X isn’t young so I’d be curious what the trend is for Millennials. 

On Thursday, November 21, 2019, Eric Loumeau <ejlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I didn't listen to the podcast, but I'm curious why you think it's a good thing that people are following their own convictions rather than listening to what the prophets tell us.  

Isaiah 55:8 ("For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.")

Proverbs 3:5 ("Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.")

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:33 AM Laura Hanson <hanson...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey,

I remember this was something we discussed years ago, back when Adam and I were on opposite sides. :)

I'm listening to a podcast discussing survey results of different generations of Mormons. In response to a question about who do you follow when your personal convictions tell you to do something different from what the general authorities of the church are saying, 2/3 of boomers said they would follow church leaders whereas Gen X was split 50/50. It's an interesting trend, one that I consider very positive.

Here's the podcast: https://pca.st/9774bvcj

Laura

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adam's Discussions" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to adams-discussi...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CALsnLLA72wvy8ujX7jb7S%3D6nDpPuKnx7_9qoXHZ4XrjEbTGceQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adam's Discussions" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to adams-discussi...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CAH%3Dbf8Sbzw9e906Tu0xOE0smHcOk49L5hqiYUz81QuO9X3s%3DTw%40mail.gmail.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adam's Discussions" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to adams-discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CAOqXFNCT4H0JUN6DD8XrxBTd%2B5VVc1mT7ZTL%3DuYx8RYJDhC5wA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Eric Loumeau]

Laura,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  You original email said "general authorities" not just "church leaders."  While not all general authorities are apostles, I can't think of a lot of examples where people are debating whether to follow what a Seventy says in general conference.  It's usually an apostle or the prophet.  And, as for following what the prophet or apostles tell us to do, I personally am a firm believer that we will definitely be blessed for obeying even if turns out what they said might not have necessarily been inspired of God.  For example, many people might argue that polygamy or not giving the priesthood to blacks might not have been revelation from God.  I'm not here to debate this.  But if church members do what you are saying, while it may sometimes end up being the correct decision in that particular case if that person for certain was prompted by the Holy Ghost, your position is a very slippery slope.  In my opinion, it could lead to those church members questioning every thing the prophets and apostles tell us -- asking themselves, "is what he is saying against my personal principles?"  I think a lot of people make up their minds on what they think is right, and they may even convince themselves that they were inspired by the Holy Ghost when they might not have been.  Very dangerous slippery slope, and one that will undoubtedly lead to many of those church members leaving the church.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CALsnLLB13zJr5FsPMYek1HJKbeSrEft-QsNhB-Pb%2BOhfeWdMzw%40mail.gmail.com.

[adam loumeau]

I am currently listening to the podcast but I wanted to jump in and respond to Laura and Eric's last emails.

If the buck doesn't stop with us, what then is the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Everyone is born with the ability to discern between good and evil. We commonly call this the Light of Christ. Not everyone is as sensitive to the Light of Christ and certainly people can make choices that increase or decrease their sensitivity moving forward. But we all have that to some degree or another. So why is the Gift of the Holy Ghost so important then? I feel like there are two beliefs in our church that sort of get downplayed out of concern that the masses won't follow the living prophet and apostles closely enough. One is the role of the Gift of the Holy Ghost. We sort of dance around it but we don't dive deep into this belief.

The other one is the belief that 2/3 of the Book of Mormon was not translated because we were not ready to hear those teachings. Well, what do we believe is contained in this sealed portion? The Book of Mormon is not short. If you doubled the material, you would be looking at a dizzying amount of truth that we don't have access to today. And I can promise you the revelations contained therein are not about where Kolob is located in the universe or whether or not Adam had a belly button. It seems pretty clear to me that we are supposed to following our own convictions and seeking truth beyond and potentially at times contrary to what the prophet and apostles are telling us.

Eric, I get what you are saying about the slippery slope but I think this is a mostly false concept. Based on my knowledge and experiences with people, it seems to be that those who are prone to fooling themselves are those who are going to stray no matter what. By that I mean the idea that strongly devout Mormons are by their nature much less likely to confuse (justify?) wrong behavior/beliefs in the name of righteousness. However, it is my experience that oftentimes the most devout Mormons are poor decision makers in matters that stray outside of our expressed theology. And if those matters greatly affect these members' happiness and peace, as well as their children and/or spouse, then these are spiritual matters as far as I can tell. Life is complicated and if members of the church can't synthesize various principles and concepts effectively, they will end up less happy than they could be. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CAH%3Dbf8TRS4UZyZcLvay4_Q57cr5RR0%2B_cw01YeTOQ5bAU6CwJA%40mail.gmail.com.

[vivian.branner]

I believe most of us take the lazy way out and dont follow the admonition to receive a witness from the Spirit about the things we here over the pulpit. I also believe that there may be plenty of revelation we can receive about things that havent been revealed yet, and should keep it to oir personal use. I also think that at times we may know that our course is not to follow thebprescribed course for the general membership, due to our personal needs or circumstances.

I also believe that, especially in yhese last days, we need to heed the council of the Brethren. If that is not a solid practice, and, as Eric suggested, we leave ourselves open to questiin anything and everything, there is no safety from deception.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/adams-discussions/CAOqXFNAZFdE%3DZmCAGS6O40Y4u5f4_scGJTO6Wkg0TgUzW_80fQ%40mail.gmail.com.