plausible or insane? - or both?
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Christian
Dec 22, 2008, 12:43:03 PM12/22/08
to Across the Years
Arizona locals:
I am flying in Sunday.
My wife is dropping me off at ATY monday morning for the start
They are driving to SnowBowl in Flagstaff to ski the 29th - 31st
They will come and celebrate New Years Eve with me - then retire.
The will pick me up when ATY is over and we head to the Grand Canyon
(I realize that's an over 4 hour drive)
We will come back from Grand Canyon same day
Stay the night in the Phoenix
Fly out January 2.
I'm curious if anyone local sees any potential issues with this plan
logistically....
Thank you.
I am flying in Sunday.
My wife is dropping me off at ATY monday morning for the start
They are driving to SnowBowl in Flagstaff to ski the 29th - 31st
They will come and celebrate New Years Eve with me - then retire.
The will pick me up when ATY is over and we head to the Grand Canyon
(I realize that's an over 4 hour drive)
We will come back from Grand Canyon same day
Stay the night in the Phoenix
Fly out January 2.
I'm curious if anyone local sees any potential issues with this plan
logistically....
Thank you.
Lynn David Newton
Dec 23, 2008, 7:54:24 PM12/23/08
to Across the Years
Lemme try to understand this:
> My wife is dropping me off at ATY monday morning for the start
So far so good. Aim to be there by 8:00am. Earlier if you
were not able to be there the day before to get your
stuff set up. It takes a while to get ready, and
there's the prerace meeting at about 8:45.
> They are driving to SnowBowl in Flagstaff to ski the 29th - 31st
Happy them.
> They will come and celebrate New Years Eve with me - then retire.
That should be fun. Be sure to introduce them to
people. (Moi.)
> The will pick me up when ATY is over ...
That's a good plan ... they should be there by 8:30,
because the most fun part of the race is the ending.
You'll understand when you've experienced it yourself.
Certainly plan on staying for the awards luncheon.
People who cut out before that are missing a lot.
If you're thinking: "Race over, on the road by 9:30",
you're deluding yourself. It's understandable when some
people have to make tight plane schedules. It's a
half-hour drive to the airport in Phoenix. But the
afterglow, including the association at the banquet
is like the cuddling part after lovemaking, if you'll
pardon the comparison. It's a part of the experience,
and not something to be skipped.
> and we head to
> the Grand Canyon (I realize that's an over 4 hour
> drive)
Huh? Straight from the race? The same day? Whatever
for?
First of all, it should go without saying, that your
wife must do the driving. You'll be totally crashed. Or
else you'll *all* be crashed -- over the side of a mountain
halfway to Flagstaff.
When I moved from Phoenix to Columbus I very nearly
crashed over the side of a mountain at 9:30 in the
morning when I was cold stone sober and fresh from a
good night's sleep. It's not an easy drive. Less so if
-- oh say, -- you happen to be a bit sleep deprived and
tired for any reason.
> We will come back from Grand Canyon same day
Oh no.
> Stay the night in the Phoenix
Fine, but ...
> Fly out January 2.
Have a ball.
I'm staying with dear friends in Phoenix, and am hoping
I can get in four hours sleep on January 1st, spend the
evening catching up, and then be able to crawl through
the airport at 4:30 AM the next morning, when I get
dumped off.
> I'm curious if anyone local sees any potential issues
> with this plan logistically....
Not if your sole goal is to put as many miles on your
rental car as possible while you sleep in the back
seat. Not a lot of fun for your family either, I daresay.
I'm going to make a wild guess and assume that your
objective is to see the Grand Canyon while you're here,
because who know when you'll get this way again. Right?
With about an hour or maybe two of sunlight left when
you get there (I'm being optimistic, not to mention that you
might not be able to walk, you ain't gonna enjoy the Grand
Canyon, and neither will your family.
The return trip from the Canyon back to Phoenix, even
though it's largely downhill, is a nightmare. And there
will probably be more than a few people on the road --
holiday revelers (some of them incapacitated by
celebratory liquids) returning from Flagstaff to go to
work the next morning -- though possibly less than
other years given that the 1st is on a Thursday.
Do yourselves a big favor, and don't chance a trip like
this. I myself never even bothered to make a one-day
round trip to the Canyon from north Phoenix where I
lived (45 minutes closer than Nardini Manor), starting
from a good night's sleep and totally fresh. It just
isn't worth it.
I did do a one-day once, but I took the train and started
from Williams (3/4 of the way there). I had three whole
hours to be at the Canyon before the return train left.
Not to mention that the Canyon is an immense place to
be experienced and savored ideally over a period of a
week or so. It's one of the great places on the planet.
Make other plans to come and see it some day.
I urge you not to do this. I really think none of you will
enjoy it.
--
Lynn Newton
ATY Webmaster
> My wife is dropping me off at ATY monday morning for the start
were not able to be there the day before to get your
stuff set up. It takes a while to get ready, and
there's the prerace meeting at about 8:45.
> They are driving to SnowBowl in Flagstaff to ski the 29th - 31st
> They will come and celebrate New Years Eve with me - then retire.
people. (Moi.)
> The will pick me up when ATY is over ...
That's a good plan ... they should be there by 8:30,
because the most fun part of the race is the ending.
You'll understand when you've experienced it yourself.
Certainly plan on staying for the awards luncheon.
People who cut out before that are missing a lot.
If you're thinking: "Race over, on the road by 9:30",
you're deluding yourself. It's understandable when some
people have to make tight plane schedules. It's a
half-hour drive to the airport in Phoenix. But the
afterglow, including the association at the banquet
is like the cuddling part after lovemaking, if you'll
pardon the comparison. It's a part of the experience,
and not something to be skipped.
> and we head to
> the Grand Canyon (I realize that's an over 4 hour
> drive)
for?
First of all, it should go without saying, that your
wife must do the driving. You'll be totally crashed. Or
else you'll *all* be crashed -- over the side of a mountain
halfway to Flagstaff.
When I moved from Phoenix to Columbus I very nearly
crashed over the side of a mountain at 9:30 in the
morning when I was cold stone sober and fresh from a
good night's sleep. It's not an easy drive. Less so if
-- oh say, -- you happen to be a bit sleep deprived and
tired for any reason.
> We will come back from Grand Canyon same day
> Stay the night in the Phoenix
> Fly out January 2.
Have a ball.
I'm staying with dear friends in Phoenix, and am hoping
I can get in four hours sleep on January 1st, spend the
evening catching up, and then be able to crawl through
the airport at 4:30 AM the next morning, when I get
dumped off.
> I'm curious if anyone local sees any potential issues
> with this plan logistically....
rental car as possible while you sleep in the back
seat. Not a lot of fun for your family either, I daresay.
I'm going to make a wild guess and assume that your
objective is to see the Grand Canyon while you're here,
because who know when you'll get this way again. Right?
With about an hour or maybe two of sunlight left when
you get there (I'm being optimistic, not to mention that you
might not be able to walk, you ain't gonna enjoy the Grand
Canyon, and neither will your family.
The return trip from the Canyon back to Phoenix, even
though it's largely downhill, is a nightmare. And there
will probably be more than a few people on the road --
holiday revelers (some of them incapacitated by
celebratory liquids) returning from Flagstaff to go to
work the next morning -- though possibly less than
other years given that the 1st is on a Thursday.
Do yourselves a big favor, and don't chance a trip like
this. I myself never even bothered to make a one-day
round trip to the Canyon from north Phoenix where I
lived (45 minutes closer than Nardini Manor), starting
from a good night's sleep and totally fresh. It just
isn't worth it.
I did do a one-day once, but I took the train and started
from Williams (3/4 of the way there). I had three whole
hours to be at the Canyon before the return train left.
Not to mention that the Canyon is an immense place to
be experienced and savored ideally over a period of a
week or so. It's one of the great places on the planet.
Make other plans to come and see it some day.
I urge you not to do this. I really think none of you will
enjoy it.
--
Lynn Newton
ATY Webmaster
Doug Thomas
Dec 23, 2008, 9:09:23 PM12/23/08
to across-t...@googlegroups.com
I agree with Lynn. As a part-time Flagstaff resident (Minnesota is my alternate location) I can say that the drive from Phoenix to the Grand Canyon, while 4 hours (4.5 from Nardini?) in good weather, can be nasty and dangerous in stormy (especially snowy) weather. Valley folks drive up to SnowBowl to ski, and lots of them drive like idiots northbound on I-17 when it snows. And they end up off in a snowbank, or worse. Once you're beyond the Sedona exit norhtbound, it gets to be more like mountain weather. Nice and easy and some spectacular scenery if the weather's good, but changeable and potentially dangerous if there's precipitation or high winds. Can be lightly raining an hour north of PHX but that will be snow and ice a couple thousand feet higher, as you get closer to Flagstaff. Either last winter or the winter before (I forget which), there was a major chain reaction pileup on I-40 about 10 miles west of Flagstaff (near Bellemont) where well over 50 vehicles crashed in a snowsquall, in sudden white-out conditions, and a couple people were killed (many cars were able to get safely stopped without incident but the semi-trucks following didn't slow down until too late and slid into the cars and crushed them into stopped vehicles ahead).
The 2 1/2 hour drive from Phoenix Sky Harbor to Flagstaff (maybe 3 hours starting from Nardini Manor) and the half hour from Flagstaff to Williams are on Interstate, but the last 60 miles from Williams to GC South Rim is 2 lane road. Decent road, but still 2 lane, and plenty exposed if you get a winter storm coming through. And your elevation from somewhat south of Flagstaff the rest of the way to the GC varies from 6,800 - 7,500 feet, so if there is a winter storm happening, pay attention to where the snow line is. If you really want to head north right after ATY, I'd go as far as Sedona or Flagstaff and hang there overnight - see how you feel next morning before tackling the drive to GC and back to Sky Harbor. Or at least have Sedona or Flagstaff as a plan B destination.
Also remember that the temps at Flagstaff and GC are usually 25 - 35 degrees F colder than it is in PHX, so if the high at Nardini will be 65 that day it may only be 30 or 35 degrees when you get to the GC in the early afternoon. Sedona is usually about 15 - 20 degrees cooler than PHX.
Doug Thomas
The 2 1/2 hour drive from Phoenix Sky Harbor to Flagstaff (maybe 3 hours starting from Nardini Manor) and the half hour from Flagstaff to Williams are on Interstate, but the last 60 miles from Williams to GC South Rim is 2 lane road. Decent road, but still 2 lane, and plenty exposed if you get a winter storm coming through. And your elevation from somewhat south of Flagstaff the rest of the way to the GC varies from 6,800 - 7,500 feet, so if there is a winter storm happening, pay attention to where the snow line is. If you really want to head north right after ATY, I'd go as far as Sedona or Flagstaff and hang there overnight - see how you feel next morning before tackling the drive to GC and back to Sky Harbor. Or at least have Sedona or Flagstaff as a plan B destination.
Also remember that the temps at Flagstaff and GC are usually 25 - 35 degrees F colder than it is in PHX, so if the high at Nardini will be 65 that day it may only be 30 or 35 degrees when you get to the GC in the early afternoon. Sedona is usually about 15 - 20 degrees cooler than PHX.
Doug Thomas
tony mangan
Dec 24, 2008, 6:11:38 AM12/24/08
to across-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi Christian.
I agree with every word Lynn has written.
I drove by Flagstaff on way from Las Vegas to the Manor 2 years ago and it is a substantial drive which you would be advised to spend a full day.. Then there is the Canyon.
Best advice... Come back next year and tack on at least 2 more days.
Have a good race to all runners... I will be thinking of you all and following your progress... So no slacking!!
Best wishes for Christmas and a great running and otherwise 2009!
Tony Mangan
www.tonymangan.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:43:03 -0800
> Subject: plausible or insane? - or both?
> From: surf...@gmail.com
> To: across-t...@googlegroups.com
I agree with every word Lynn has written.
I drove by Flagstaff on way from Las Vegas to the Manor 2 years ago and it is a substantial drive which you would be advised to spend a full day.. Then there is the Canyon.
Best advice... Come back next year and tack on at least 2 more days.
Have a good race to all runners... I will be thinking of you all and following your progress... So no slacking!!
Best wishes for Christmas and a great running and otherwise 2009!
Tony Mangan
www.tonymangan.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:43:03 -0800
> Subject: plausible or insane? - or both?
> From: surf...@gmail.com
> To: across-t...@googlegroups.com
Mom of Buffaloes
Dec 23, 2008, 8:44:52 PM12/23/08
to across-t...@googlegroups.com
Christian,
My question is Why?????????
It's one thing to drive ONCE to northern Arizona from Phoenix, even for someone who isn't running an ultra. Driving it twice in a few days, with uncertain weather conditions and road conditions, plus your mental state after running...
I'm with Lynn. Find another time to visit the Grand Canyon when you can really enjoy it. It has too much to offer, there's too much to see. You couldn't wrap your mind around it in the physical and mental state you'll be in.
Have a nice trip to Phoenix, see you at Nardini Manor, and have a great run!
Alene
http://alenegonebad.blogspot.com
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