New to the group...
I use Adobe CS2 and ACR 3.7:
Of the several color spaces which is the best to use for camera
My nikon d200 gives me the option of aRBG vs sRGB
but give different values for the same file.
My goal is to print quality 19x13 inch pohotographs.
ProPhoto it is then, (just when I was ready to go back to adobe RGB.)
By the way, I ran the AcrCalibrator script after opening the NEF file
in ACR, then opening it in CS2, as a sRGB, aRGB and a ProPhoto RGB.
Over all the values were not too far off from each other with the sRGB
and the ppRGB being nearly identical. Maybe the "8 bit file" limited
My Canon Pro9000 printer is reputed to have a wider color gamut than
other printers but I am not able to find details on its color space.
> Doc Saltz- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for posting the link, I looked at the color profile images and
I think the test is very interesting. The comparasion is clear and the
reason why you prefer to use the ProPhotoRGB colorspace is obvious.
I am in the panorama business, for ech panorama I stitch a
equirectangular image from several images (input and output all
TIFF). In practice there is always some post processing neccesary
(althought now less then in the past thanks to a fine camera profile
and better settings control in RAW Converter 4.1) so working with a
larger color space then sRGB can indeed give a better result (but not
always). There is one downside when working with 16 bit source images;
the stitch process takes a much longer time then with 8 bit images.
The choice for 16 <> 8 bit depends on how much post processing is
needed to justify the extra time of 16 bit processing.
Did you test ever tested the differences between 16 <> 8 bit as well ?
Nice to read that you ar familiar with making panorama's.
I looked at some of yours, you shot them with 18mm and needed a lot of
The result is an high res pano with a lot of pixels so I guess you
downsized the stitched image for the web.
Although they contain lots of little stitch errors the results are
I am sure you know what caused the errors and if not I will explain.
Your explanation of the colorspace and the bit part is clear and it
explains why you (and I) can get away with 8 bit images.
I make panos intended for web use with much less images, between 3 and
10 with a shaved (removed sun cap) Tokina 10-17mm fish zoom lens on a
Each image contains a big part of the panorama and therefore the
dynamic range in each image can be huge, I only can get away with sRGB/
8bit if the preprocessing of the RAWs is done as good as possible. By
doing this I only need little postprocessing of the pano. The only
kind of panos that need a lot of postprocessing, and therefore a large
colorpspace+bit depth, are HDR panos but I don't make them often
because they are very time consuming to make and the balance "time
+efforts <> quality gain" is often not right.
Since you are better colorspace experts of the two us I like to know
if you explain this:
Recently I compared the stitched output of 3 panos. 1 was made of a
set of sRGB/8bit images, 1 of AdobeRGB/8bit and 1 of AdobeRGB/16bit.
All source images+ stitched output are saved as TIF.
The shots are RAW with the same aperture+shutterspeed and all shots
are processed with same ACR parameters so all sets look the same.
After stitching and converting the 2 AdobeRGB's panos to sRGB I
compared the 3 panos.
The only difference I could see was a slight colorshift in the darks
of the pano made with the sRGB shots.
I guess this is because some colors are clipped during the stitch/
blend process because they got out out of sRGB space but the stitch
application (PTGui) don't handle colorspaces nor tags them so I wonder
how clipping can occurs. Any ideas ?
Some like indoor panoramas while other prefer outdoor scenes, its a
matter of taste.
The logo is for promotional purposes and for covering the footprint of
the tripod and the panoramahead, a solution that can saves a lot of
postprocessing time and the need of an extra nadirshot.
BTW, the 40D will bring your panorama resolution to a very high level,
perhaps way to high so if possible do yourself a favour and buy a wide
angle fish lens, with the 40D+Tokina 10-17mm (standard, unshaved) you
can make panos of ca. 12kx6k (10mm) and even much higher when zoomed
Thanks to your comment about the color shift of the sRGB
equirectangular I found the reason for the color shift.
I found out that the slight color shift of the sRGB pano all had to do
with the conversion of the colorspaces from the other panos with
adobeRGB and ProPhotoRGBto to sRGB. Both converted images look te same
so I thought that the unconverted sRGB pano was different. I guess
this can happens always if a colorspace conversion has to be made and
the fact that Adobe offers several methods for the conversion
(perceptual, colormatrix and others, with lots of options) makes it
obvious that there is no single "Use one, Fits all" colorspace
After trying some other options I find the perceptual method giving
the best results in this particular set of images, the colorshift of
the colorspace converted images was very small so in fact all
conversion methods are usefull.
Steve thanks again for you input, regards Wim.
> Is there something better about using a fisheye compared to a rectilinear of the same focal-length?
The answer is yes !
On my 350D I use a Canon EFS 10-22 lens, its is not suited for the 5D
but it is for your 300D and future 40D.
Its a little more expensive then a Sigma10-20 but defenitely worth the
I have this lens for almost 2 year and it is my absolute favorit for
The lens is also usefull for making panoramas when the camera is in
portrait position with a minimum of 12 images @10mm (3 rows, 3+6+3)
although 16 and 18 images are much easier to stitch (4+8+4 or 6+6+6).
Happy shooting, Wim.
I think I was not clear enough so I will explain my advice to you,
For making panoramas I prefer the Tokina10-17 lens because it provides
a much larger angle then a normal lens, so less images are required
and that is a big advantage.
I have experineces with 2 other fisheye lenses (Sigma+Nikon) and the
Tokina is the best.
For making panorama's AND for making normal rectangular images my
advice is the Canon 10-22.
A fisheye lens (zoom or not) is not suited for normal use, every image
has to be converted to a rectangular format and that is defenitely an
annoying job and therefore you must forget a fisheye lens if you want
to make normal images as well. Fortunately a normal wide angle lens is
also very suited for creating panoramas so you only have to make some
more images compared with a fisheye lens, thats all.
The Canon 10-22 has an extremely wide angle and @10mm it is very
usefull for creating panos with as little images as possible.
I only mentioned the Sigma10-20 because a lot of people buy this
popular lens because it has (almost) the same specs and is much
cheaper then the Canon 10-22.
If you can spent the money go for the best. I don't have any
experience with the Tamron lens, but I am sure there will be reviews
Steve, your plan for stitching a panorama from 176 images (even if
they are shot bracketed) is defenitely not my cup of tea.
Unless the panorama is intended for printing I try to keep the number
of images as small as possible.
For web display I never need more then 10000x5000 px and normally I
stick to 7000x3500 px.
Even for printing 176 are a lot of images and I am sure you will get
an huge sized equirectangular.
I am very curious for what purpose you need such a panorama for.
On Jun 30, 11:23 pm, "Steve Sprengel" <s...@sprengels.com> wrote:
> I am confused...
> Three lens have been mentioned:
> Tokina 10-17 Fisheye (full-frame) $560http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/468737-REG/Tokina_ATX107PRODXC_...
> Sigma 10-20 Rectilinear (APS-C) $499http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/381610-REG/Sigma_201101_10_20mm...
> Canon 10-22 Rectilinear (APS-C) $689http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/351542-USA/Canon_9518A002_EF_S_...
> There is also a Tamron (APS-C) $569 lens of similar focal-length range:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/363807-REG/Tamron_AF013C700_11_...
I don't have any experience with AutoPano.
For stitching panoramas I use PTGui because it is pretty advanced,
fisheye lenses, crop circles etc. etc. are supported and the Pro
version handles HDR very good.
The output can be set to several HDR and LDR formats, layered and
blended, whatever you prefer.
There is fine and active user forum and the developer provides good
I prefer to use PTGui 7 Pro together with the latest beta(2) of
PhotoMatix 2.5 Pro for HDR panoramas, this combo is very good although
the HDR tone compressor of the latest PTGui beta is also very good.
At this moment version 7 of PTGui is available as beta and very soon a
final version will be released. I can advice you to download a free
copy of the application (http://www.ptgui.com) and give it a try.
I had short experiences with the Sigma10-20, after I bought it I was
not satisfied about shapness and the CA and therefore I changed it for
a Canon 10-22.
To be true the diffences between both lenses are small and perhaps if
there wasn't a cash-back action for the Canon lens at that time I
would kept the Sigma lens.
I am sure that there must be good comparing tests online because both
lenses are popular. Success with making your choice.