Worried about our group

[Sarah Diesburg]

Hi guys,

I'm seriously worried about our group. It sounds like not many CS
students know we exist, or what we do. If you are receiving this
email, can you respond to this topic please??

-- Sarah

[thewams]

Sarah,

I got this e-mail.  Are you worried about support of the group?

Best,
Emily

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[Caitlin]

I've been thinking about this for awhile.
I think our biggest problem is that CS and IT students already have
ACM and AITP, and while these organizations are not specifically
tailored to women, they still provide a community for women students.
In comparison, our group is much smaller, we only have about 4 or 5
active members, making it harder to provide that "community".

Also, I believe our traditional methods of having Market Wednesday
events and meetings have not really worked out in the past. But at the
same time, I'm not sure what would be more effective to spread our
message and encourage women to join. I agree with Sarah, I think we
desperately need some new perspectives and advice here. Please
respond.

- Caitlin

On Nov 3, 4:51 pm, thewams <thew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sarah,
>
> I got this e-mail.  Are you worried about support of the group?
>
> Best,
> Emily
>

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Sarah Diesburg <sarah.diesb...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi guys,
>
> > I'm seriously worried about our group.  It sounds like not many CS
> > students know we exist, or what we do.  If you are receiving this
> > email, can you respond to this topic please??
>
> > -- Sarah
>
> > --
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "ACM Women At FSU" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to acm-wome...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > acm-women-at-f...@googlegroups.com<acm-women-at-fsu%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Alejandro Cabrera]

It may be a difficult question to ask, but someone must: is there
really a need for ACM-W at FSU? I believe that to truly define
ourselves as a group apart from ACM and any other computer-related
group in campus, we must be able to answer this question in the
positive. Why does this group exist? What do we address that no one
else does? Are the issues we address really issues locally? Are the
benefits we provide unique and useful? To answer this, it'll take
research across IT, CS, SCS, and MIS students.

[thewams]

All: I apologize for being unable to help out/participate this semester, but I do believe in at least some center of support for women in CS.  How does everyone feel about meeting up for dinner to talk about the group?  Perhaps China Delight, or somewhere quiet like that for a friendly get-together?  Friday around 6 or 7?

Best,
Emily Wamsley

[Sarah Diesburg]

Hi Emily -- Yeah, but the other way around. It's not so much "why is
no one joining ACM-W?", but instead "What value is this group not
bringing to students?" Why are we sucking?

Hi Alejandro -- I don't think research of that scope is necessary.
Female students in other institutions have found their ACM-W chapters
to be beneficial. Check out:
http://acmw.org.ohio-state.edu/
http://minerva.csc.depauw.edu/home.htm
http://lovelace.spsu.edu/comwomen/default.htm
http://www.stanford.edu/group/wics/
http://www.cs.tufts.edu/research/wics/
http://awics.cs.tamu.edu/
http://digital.cs.usu.edu/~acmw/
http://139.179.40.31/bilwic/
http://uwacmw.wordpress.com/
http://www.cs.washington.edu/acmw/
....

Hi Caitlin -- I absolutely agree that we need to do more than what we
are doing. But none of it makes sense unless we are bringing value to
people here. Would more social events bring value? General group
mentoring sessions for female students? Technical talk get-togethers?
More advertising? Better website (my fault)?

To phrase it in the way that a bazillion guys do, what do girls want??

We have to provide something extra to plain ACM, or else there is no
point. We can be a small group, but there needs to be a small amount
of turn-over for the group to be healthy, and there hasn't been for
awhile. We need to define exactly what extra value we will add as a
group and do it.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but please post!!

-- Sarah

[Sarah Diesburg]

No prob, thanks for responding to this!

Something like China Delight sounds great. I'm leaving for New York
on Friday night, how about Thursday night?

-- Sarah

On Nov 3, 6:36 pm, thewams <thew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All: I apologize for being unable to help out/participate this semester, but
> I do believe in at least some center of support for women in CS.  How does
> everyone feel about meeting up for dinner to talk about the group?  Perhaps
> China Delight, or somewhere quiet like that for a friendly get-together?
> Friday around 6 or 7?
>
> Best,
> Emily Wamsley
>

[thewams]

Sarah,

Looks like maybe this week will be a no-go for a group meetup on my end.  Thurs. night I'm thinking about going to the Peaches show at Downunder and tomorrow I'm going to be getting ready for Algorithms.

I think it sounds like we're getting down to brass tacks here.  All I can do is offer my experience and my interactions with CS.  I certainly don't claim to know how other women feel.  CS, for me, has been about isolation.  Every class in which I've been enrolled has been all about independent study.  The classes that have tried to include group study have, if I can use your word, sucked.  Either I'm doing all the work because my teammate isn't involved or they're being a go-getter and doing all the work without me there.  There's plenty of "Do this as a group" and not a whole lot of "This is how you design a program as a team".

Then we've got the professors.  I think I saw Lois Hawkes for two and a half seconds several years ago.  Thus far that's been my only hard evidence that women actually succeed in CompSci academia.

If I'm in a major that doesn't empahasize teamwork and doesn't have any role models for me, I'm going to bypass the major, switch to a different major, or just tough it out and treat my education like a job separate from my social life.  As a woman in CS, what I'm lacking is meaningful interactions that have absolutely nothing to do with computers.  Most of the planned events I've seen with ACM-W have been computer-related.  As much I'd love to see more high school women come into Computer Science, I'm not willing to sacrifice my weekends to be a mentor.

I sincerely hope that I haven't demeaned or unfairly criticized anyone.  My intentions here have only been to honestly offer my experience in Computer Science.  I hesitated to post this publicly but, hopefully, this will help to open things up for some honest communication.  For what it's worth, it's reassuring that some people are earnestly trying to address this issue.

Best,
Emily

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[Sarah Diesburg]

Hi Emily,

Holy crap, that post was awesome. Seriously.

I felt the isolation, too. I made a couple good guy friends along the
way, but have had very few good "group" interactions, especially at
FSU. I am used to working alone and thinking alone. I struggle to
make friends with women, mostly I think because I don't really
encounter many of them, much less work with them. Sometimes I feel
like a social turd among other women.

I don't have a specific female role-model, or "someone that I want to
be". It leaves me floundering sometimes. I'm lucky enough to talk
with Dr. Hawkes from time to time (since she is on my committee), but
it isn't enough. I personally want to see more examples of women who
have gone through the tenure process, had a family, and didn't go
stark raving mad. I want to know how more women deal with pressures
and deadlines. I want to know how to not second-guess myself or
constantly be frustrated with my progress.

Yeah. I would love to have an honest to goodness night where women in
this department actually get together and talk about all of this.
Without any bull. How in the h3ck could we go about this..?

-- Sarah

> > acm-women-at-f...@googlegroups.com<acm-women-at-fsu%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Alejandro Cabrera]

Emily, thank you for your post. I've been thinking since last night when I read this post, about all the times that I've spoken with Sarah, and the time I spent talking with Caitlin today, that we could really use more open communication along these lines. By building trust amongst each other, we'll be able to share our experiences outside of CS that make our lives meaningful to us. There's always the question of how we can manage our lives outside of CS, how to balance all that. I'm still working on it!

During my undergraduate career as a CS student at FSU, I did feel that element of isolation. More likely than not, I placed myself in such circumstances that I did minimize interaction with my peers. I felt intimidated by some of the students and professors because it always seemed like they knew more than I did, that they were more capable or experienced than I was. It was a fear of being unable to catch up.

Isolation is less of a problem in the present for me. The problem for me becomes achieving a healthy balance between my life at home, my ambitions outside of CS, and my ambitions within academia. It's all too easy to prioritize one over the other to minimize balancing overhead, but then the quality of life suffers as a result.

I believe we all have stories to tell. I believe that we can all learn from each other. Getting together and making it happen should be one of our top priorities.

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[Ling Toh]

I don't think the sense of isolation occurs only in us CS women.  I've been a TA long enough to observe that it's a general problem with CS students too.  Sometimes, a few students are lucky enough to form their own groups as they take the same courses and work on the same projects.  It could be due to the fact that when you get into the major, the workload gets crazy enough to subconsciously put your social life on hold.  I've also met many people in the work force who feel that sense of isolation too, so perhaps the feeling will never really go away.

That said, it does not answer the immediate question of whether ACM-Women can bring any value to the department.  I would like to believe that with a lot of noise it will, but the lack of funding, there are only so many events that can be organized.  Perhaps a formal mentoring effort would be too tedious at this point, but more social gathering would likely create opportunities for informal mentoring connections.  Btw, is the ACM chapter much better of than we are?  I don't hear much from them either, but I have not been on campus for a while now, so I don't really know...But if they are not active either (aside from the 2 annual events: programming contest and Tom Brown Park), then I don't think that you all should beat yourselves up over this too much. 

On the up side, I don't see a problem with the group being small as long as they people who are actively involved are finding some value from it.  If you are all happy with the occasional get together, then something is better than nothing at all, right?

-Ling.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to acm-women-at-f...@googlegroups.com.

[Ling Toh]

I don't think the sense of isolation occurs only in us CS women.  I've been a TA long enough to observe that it's a general problem with CS students too.  Sometimes, a few students are lucky enough to form their own groups as they take the same courses and work on the same projects.  It could be due to the fact that when you get into the major, the workload gets crazy enough to subconsciously put your social life on hold.  I've also met many people in the work force who feel that sense of isolation too, so perhaps the feeling will never really go away.

That said, it does not answer the immediate question of whether ACM-Women can bring any value to the department.  I would like to believe that with a lot of noise it will, but the lack of funding, there are only so many events that can be organized.  Perhaps a formal mentoring effort would be too tedious at this point, but more social gathering would likely create opportunities for informal mentoring connections.  Btw, is the ACM chapter much better of than we are?  I don't hear much from them either, but I have not been on campus for a while now, so I don't really know...But if they are not active either (aside from the 2 annual events: programming contest and Tom Brown Park), then I don't think that you all should beat yourselves up over this too much. 

On the up side, I don't see a problem with the group being small as long as they people who are actively involved are finding some value from it.  If you are all happy with the occasional get together, then something is better than nothing at all, right?

-Ling.

[frank.sposaro]

Ling,

I wanted to assure you that ACM is highly active this semester. We
have had general meetings every other week since the beginning of the
semester. Our attendence averages 15-25 members. Our roster of signed
members is over 50. All of our minutes are posted on the site
acm.cs.fsu.edu. we are also linked from the cs department site. Our
officers meet every week. Us, along with acm-w, also acheieved rso
this year.

For events, we did already host the programming contest. We also had a
table for club day, which acm-w was there too. We reached out to many
new -I.T students. We had a float in the homecoming parade last
Friday and several meetings with our committee to help build the
float. We are also currently fixing up the majors lab and creating an
acm lounge out of one room that is down there. We also planned our
picnic for the 11.14 @ the rez. We still have to plan a stress free
study break event durning finals and we are going to have an end of
the year toys for tots fundraiser x-mas party. In additon, we keep our
website updated with new jobs and announcement of talks and
information about our events and member. Another current project is to
update the shadow boxes in the hallways of love.

So we have plenty going on if you would like to get involved. We send
e-mails to the enitre cs department every other week with the agenda
for the upcoming meeting. I encourage you to check your cs account and
be apart of any project that interests you.

Thank you

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Sarah Diesburg <sarah.diesb...@gmail.com>wrote:> Hi Emily,

> > > > acm-women-at-f...@googlegroups.com<acm-women-at-fsu%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com>
> > <acm-women-at-fsu%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<acm-women-at-fsu%252Bunsub scr...@googlegroups.com>

>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/acm-women-at-fsu?hl=en.
>
> > --
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "ACM Women At FSU" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > acm-women-at-f...@googlegroups.com<acm-women-at-fsu%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com>

[Ling Toh]

Frank,

Oops, I hope my comments did not come across as an insult.  As I said, I have not been on campus much and thus was not really sure about the on-goings of ACM.  Sounds like you are doing a good job.  Keep up the good work!

-Ling.

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[thewams]

Sarah,

I think a meetup would be great.  Let's try to get something going when you get back from N.Y.  Safe journey.

-Emily

[Sarah Diesburg]

Ling -- I haven't seen you in awhile! How are you and your family? I
think you might be right, we just might need to make a little more
noise. I was talking with Anuja and she suggested more get-together
events, even if it is a half hour for coffee, grabbing lunch at the
international center, or having a study session. Thanks for sharing
your thoughts! The isolation thing is a bit worrisome. I know we are
not the most social of majors, but still...

Everyone -- I would love to have a relaxed meetup after I get back.
How is next Wednesday at 5:00pm in the campus Starbucks?

On Nov 5, 10:12 pm, thewams <thew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sarah,
>

> I think a meetup would be great.  Let's try to get something going when you
> get back from N.Y.  Safe journey.
>
> -Emily
>

> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Ling Toh <ling...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Frank,
>
> > Oops, I hope my comments did not come across as an insult.  As I said, I
> > have not been on campus much and thus was not really sure about the
> > on-goings of ACM.  Sounds like you are doing a good job.  Keep up the good
> > work!
>
> > -Ling.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Alejandro Cabrera]

5pm sounds great to me! Maybe we should implement our group meetings in the future as casual meet-ups?

[Ling Toh]

Sarah,

It's great to hear from you.  I'm doing well.  Want very much to attend one of the meetings, but with a toddler, it's just very hard to get any ME time.  I am busy now, though, trying to see if I can get a publication out before defending next semester.  Everything else is kinda in the back burner right now, especially my non-existent social life. :-)

I just wanted to say that you all should not feel too badly about the low number of members.  CS is such an intensive major that ANY social get-together is already a big bonus.  You are all doing your best under the current circumstances. 

-Ling.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Sarah Diesburg <sarah.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Sarah Diesburg]

Hmmm...I just realized that today is a holiday and campus is mostly
closed. Please email me if anyone still wants to go for coffee.

Does anyone want to try paint-a-pot?
http://union.fsu.edu/photogallery/art_center/paintapot_spring08.html
I've always wanted to try this, even though I'm artistically-
challenged.

-- Sarah

On Nov 6, 3:22 pm, Ling Toh <ling...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sarah,
>
> It's great to hear from you.  I'm doing well.  Want very much to attend one
> of the meetings, but with a toddler, it's just very hard to get any ME
> time.  I am busy now, though, trying to see if I can get a publication out
> before defending next semester.  Everything else is kinda in the back burner
> right now, especially my non-existent social life. :-)
>
> I just wanted to say that you all should not feel too badly about the low
> number of members.  CS is such an intensive major that ANY social
> get-together is already a big bonus.  You are all doing your best under the
> current circumstances.
>
> -Ling.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Shalini]

hey!

At the risk of visually impairing other people with my lack of artistic skills,  I don't mind giving paint a pot a shot! :)

I did not go into details on the site as to what when and where it is, so if someone has an idea, could I have a brief overview?

Thanks,

Shalini

> ...
>
> read more »

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[thewams]

Sarah,

I'm down with coffee later.  Since the Starbucks might be closed, how about meeting off campus at Brew & Bean?  They're at the corner of Stadium Dr. and Pensacola in that apartment complex with the Subway on the ground floor.  Maybe a quarter/half mile from the stadium - it's pretty close to campus.

I'm running errands to take care of stuff this weekend, but if you could give me a call with a time I'll make a point to be there.

Best,
Emily
904-318-1645

[Shalini]

Brew & Bean has good coffee. Its a welcome change from Starbucks.
Its on the Intersection of Pensacola and Chapel Drive. If you go down Pensacola after taking a left from Stadium drive, then its on ur right.

Anuja this is probably hop skip and jump from your new place :)

It would be fun to have an ACM-W get together there .. just a brief one...

[Sarah Diesburg]

Hi all,

I'm meeting Emily there today at 5:30pm. If anyone else wants to
come, please do! :)

Shalini -- You expressed interest in paint-a-pot. How does this
Friday at 5:00pm sound? We get 10% off... :)

-- Sarah

On Nov 11, 2:28 pm, Shalini <shalin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brew & Bean has good coffee. Its a welcome change from Starbucks.
> Its on the Intersection of Pensacola and Chapel Drive. If you go down
> Pensacola after taking a left from Stadium drive, then its on ur right.
>
> Anuja this is probably hop skip and jump from your new place :)
>
> It would be fun to have an ACM-W get together there .. just a brief one...
>

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:55 PM, thewams <thew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sarah,
>
> > I'm down with coffee later.  Since the Starbucks might be closed, how about
> > meeting off campus at Brew & Bean?  They're at the corner of Stadium Dr. and
> > Pensacola in that apartment complex with the Subway on the ground floor.
> > Maybe a quarter/half mile from the stadium - it's pretty close to campus.
>
> > I'm running errands to take care of stuff this weekend, but if you could
> > give me a call with a time I'll make a point to be there.
>
> > Best,
> > Emily
> > 904-318-1645
>

> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Shalini <shalin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> hey!
>
> >> At the risk of visually impairing other people with my lack of artistic
> >> skills,  I don't mind giving paint a pot a shot! :)
>
> >> I did not go into details on the site as to what when and where it is, so if someone has an idea, could I have a brief overview?
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Shalini
>

> >> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Sarah Diesburg <sarah.diesb...@gmail.com

> ...
>
> read more »

[Alejandro Cabrera]

I'd like to join in today, but I've got my hands tied by an AUP
project. I hope you guys have fun. :)

I'm interested in the paint-a-pot event. I'm available for it Friday
anytime after 4. Jessica was also interested in this.

[Shalini]

Hey Yes Friday at 5:00 is good for me :)
I have a my weekly meetings with my advisor on Friday afternoons but I don't think it will go on until 5!

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Sarah Diesburg <sarah.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...
>
> read more »

[Sarah Diesburg]

Sweet, the more, the merrier! I'll post an official event and put up
some fliers!

-- Sarah

On Nov 11, 4:22 pm, Shalini <shalin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Yes Friday at 5:00 is good for me :)
> I have a my weekly meetings with my advisor on Friday afternoons but I don't
> think it will go on until 5!
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Shalini]

Hey Anuja n Me are coming to Brew & Bean too at 5:30.

--

Allergic to diplomats.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Shalini]

Hey this was a fun evening :)
We should do girly get togethers more often.. what do u guys think?
And I'm with Emily on the 'meeting outside of campus once in a while' bit !

[Sarah Diesburg]

I agree! It was fun to have some bonding time with the girls. :)

-- Sarah

On Nov 11, 10:04 pm, Shalini <shalin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey this was a fun evening :)
> We should do girly get togethers more often.. what do u guys think?
> And I'm with Emily on the 'meeting outside of campus once in a while' bit !
>

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Shalini <shalin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey Anuja n Me are coming to Brew & Bean too at 5:30.
>
> > --
>
> > Allergic to diplomats.
>

> ...
>
> read more »