Frogs protest free McCartney concert
Chom Noamsky
Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be accusations of
cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet, small concert with a
few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object to it. Wonder how
popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never catered to the anglo
audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo on the sovereignist
Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over it. If you don't like
McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
Robert Pauzé
"Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary apprécieraient que
le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en français. Tu sembles
oublier que c'est le 400ième de Québec pour souligner la création de la
ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la présence française que l'on
souligne. C'est comme si les américains demandaient à un Irakien de venir
chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un point, je ne suis pas obligé
d'y aller et je n'irai pas même si j'aime bien Paul.
Le Patriote
"Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de
news:GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
talk about not understanding anything, lol.
Another stupid canadian red neck :)
Le Patriote
"Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de
news:GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only
artist.
Would never happen , lol
> McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
And its anything but free, you think McCartney comes here for free ? Dumb
canadian, hilarious.
Dave Smith
I guess it just goes to show the extent of the the anti English bigotry at the
roots of Quebec nationalism. A few weeks ago I went on a trip to the Baltic and
visited Estonia, Sweden and Denmark. Each of those countries has its own
language, but almost everyone I encountered there spoke at least some English.
Many of them spoke it very well . I have had the same experiences in previous
trips to Germany, Holland and even France. Most of them accept that theirs is a
minority language and that if you want to communicate with the rest of the
world, English is the common language. I even heard people from other countries
using English as the common language. For some reason, Quebecers seem to feel
that their spitefulness will gain them glory.
English speaking performers have fans around the world. We were given a DVD and
2 CDs of the band in which our Swedish hostess' (German) nephew plays. The band
is based in Germany. They sing in English. A lot of the music played on radio
over there is English.
Quebec really needs to get with the program.
bluedev...@yahoo.com
It's nice to see you getting it.
bluedev...@yahoo.com
> "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
Typical french fuck posting french to an English message forum.
bluedev...@yahoo.com
Amen
Gen. Gus Cann
<bluedev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93156ef5-604c-4cbe...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
This forum is can.politics not redneckcan.politics
You're out of your element boy .... you racists are allowed, but you are
not permitted to enforce your facism here.
bluedev...@yahoo.com
> <bluedevil_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, Google list Can.Politics as an English group.
Looks like you are the one out of his element.
Another thing. Disliking french forced on us as taxpayers does not
make us racist. Last time I checked, the french were still white.
Guess that makes you the ignorant redneck.
MI Wakefield
"Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> wrote in message
news:GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only
> artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
> accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
> small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object
> to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
> catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her.
OK. Now you're just teasing us.
Dave Smith
It was billed as a free concert. If there is a concert and admission is free,
it's a free concert. Nobody said that McCartney was not not being paid.
Who is the stupid one? Hint... look in a mirror.
Kevin Burns
Lévesque!
Gen. Gus Cann
<bluedev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a73c9497-b516-40e6...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
"According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction
between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination."
Peter Otool
De toute façon, ce sont les montréalais qui chialent contre le
spectacle. Les gens de Québec sont tres content, eux.
----
Anyway, it's the people from montreal who are crying about that. People
from Quebec city are happy to be able to see Paul in Quebec city sunday.
Peter Otool
>
> I dunno? Would Frenchman Johnny Halliday (aka Jean-Philippe Smet, the
> French Elvis) performing instead of McCartney make them feel better and
> attract as many fans and draw as much attention to Quebec's 400th?
>
> Old Johnny's a legend in the Francophone music scene, you know!
>
> What a kewl looking dude!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Halliday
Heille le comique, si tu veux voir Halliday a Montréal, t'as juste a
organiser un spectacle.
Québec a invité Paul McCartny. Montréal a essayé de l'avoir, mais il a
refusé.
Québec devrait pas faire de spectacle de chanteur en anglais pendant 365
jours pour pas déplaire aux chialeux de Montréal ??
Brillant.
fraeauldb...@gmail.com
absolutely disgusting that Paul McCartney has the cheek to perform
on the Planes of Abraham. Talk about adding insult to injury and
glorifying centuries of British murder, rape, theft, plunder, forced
assimilation, dispossession, colonialism, imperialism, and attempted
genocide of both French Canadians and Aboriginals.
The British brought nothing but slavery, torture, death, destruction,
and misery to the countless millions upon millions of people
from India to South Africa who had the misfortune of being "civilized"
by the British.
The thing that is unbelievable is all the ignorant, uneducated,
untraveled, unenlightened, low class, pedestrian level, racist,
sexist, bigoted, homophobic, anti-Quebecois, anti-French Canadian, gun
loving, tax hating, anti-bilingual, anti-multicultural, anti-
immigration, anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-social programme,
American ass kissing, British ass kissing, vicious Cromwellian White
Anglo Saxon Protestant Redneck trailer trash on here who assume that
the words "Anglo" and "British" are interchangeable and
even monolithic. As a Scotsman, I can assure you idiots that the vast
majority of the Scots, Welsh, Irish, and Cornish who all
fall under the dubious label of "Anglo", "British", and "English
speaking"; would totally understand and sympathize with the Quebecois
in this case.
The English (Anglo-Saxons) originally invaded, occupied, forcibly
assimilated, raped, plundered, pillaged, stole, and then annexed both
Wales (Celtic), Scotland (Celtic), and Ireland (Celtic) over the
course of several centuries; and in the process they treated the
native languages spoken by the Scottish, Welsh, and Irish with same
contempt and disdain as their decedents on these newsgroups do with
the French Canadian language. Most Scots, Welsh, and Irish hated and
detest the Monarchy, the Union Jack, British identity, and British
culture.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is quite
simply England other another name, as 85% of its overall population is
English and almost all British laws, culture, customs, traditions,
standards and norms are actually English. Furthermore, the former
British Empire is responsible for untold rape, slavery, theft,
dispossession, genocide, slaughter,
segregation, torture, cruelty, suffering, murder, colonialism, and
imperialism all over the planet for centuries.
There is also a sizable number of Quebecois who have Irish and
Scottish ancestry; and most people in Scotland, Wales,
and Ireland look upon Quebec with a certain fondness and shared
suffering at the hands of the English.
Paul McCartney and the Beatles were also part of the "Second British
Invasion" which, while not in the form of invading
armies, did cause alot of damage to Canadian culture; a sentiment
widely shared by artists, painters, and poets in
both English Canada and French Canada.
Peter Otool
But not bye people from Quebec.
Peter Otool
catchme
to Napoleon to the bitter end and even after.
Thus earning anyone who flogs dead horses (or deceased Napoleons even),
"Chauvinists".
--
To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
Resist much, obey little,
Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
ever after-ward resumes its liberty.
-Walt Whitman, 1860
catchme
yah go figure- the French complain bitterly about McCartney whilst we
here in BC would like to see about half of what Quebec got for their
party, for OUR province's birthday!
heck, we'd be happy to have McCartney, too.
Chom Noamsky
<fraeauldb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:754aef10-c9cf-4a46...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
It's just absolute juvenility to politicise a concert. The Battle of the
Plains of Abraham happened over 250 years ago for freak's sake. Don't tell
me, you think the French have never commited any crimes and atrocities of
their own? Why don't we go back to the Norman conquest of England, and use
that as an excuse to ban Celine Dion from the entire English speaking world?
Give your head a shake, Old Boob.
catchme
> I don't blame the Quebecois from feeling offended. I think it is
> absolutely disgusting that Paul McCartney has the cheek to perform
> on the Planes of Abraham. Talk about adding insult to injury and
> glorifying centuries of British murder, rape, theft, plunder, forced
> assimilation, dispossession, colonialism, imperialism, and attempted
> genocide of both French Canadians and Aboriginals.
> The British brought nothing but slavery, torture, death, destruction,
> and misery to the countless millions upon millions of people
> from India to South Africa who had the misfortune of being "civilized"
> by the British.
>
halt! last i looked, we are Canadian- ok, our laws were given to us by
the Brits, but we still have some sovereignty- quit pointing the barrels
of blame our way!
> The thing that is unbelievable is all the ignorant, uneducated,
> untraveled, unenlightened, low class, pedestrian level, racist,
> sexist, bigoted, homophobic, anti-Quebecois, anti-French Canadian, gun
> loving, tax hating, anti-bilingual, anti-multicultural, anti-
> immigration, anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-social programme,
> American ass kissing, British ass kissing, vicious Cromwellian White
> Anglo Saxon Protestant Redneck trailer trash on here who assume that
> the words "Anglo" and "British" are interchangeable and
> even monolithic. As a Scotsman, I can assure you idiots that the vast
> majority of the Scots, Welsh, Irish, and Cornish who all
> fall under the dubious label of "Anglo", "British", and "English
> speaking"; would totally understand and sympathize with the Quebecois
> in this case.
personally, i like French people...by which i mean those from France.
Most Quebecers who make their way to BC are arrogant snobs who insist on
being addressed in their language.
Here in Vanocuver, we have so many people on working holiday from
countries such as Japan, they'd be lucky if they were understood (albeit
barely) in English!
The Francophone Canadiens are flogging a dead horse, with their
isolationist, anachronistic attitudes of some mis-guided sense of
'French Sovereignty' that died on the very day your French King ceded
Quebec to Britain in the first place!
for the record, i speak english as a first language, and Japanese as a
second. My wife is Japanese by birth and gained her permanent residence
here in Canada last month.
I am neither racist, nor anti bilingual, anti-cultural,
anti-immigration...or ANY of the things of which you accuse.
>
> The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is quite
> simply England other another name, as 85% of its overall population is
> English and almost all British laws, culture, customs, traditions,
> standards and norms are actually English. Furthermore, the former
> British Empire is responsible for untold rape, slavery, theft,
> dispossession, genocide, slaughter,
> segregation, torture, cruelty, suffering, murder, colonialism, and
> imperialism all over the planet for centuries.
the same might be said for the French during the same period, were they
not so unseccesful- remember, it was French colonialism that brought
Quebec into being?
>
> Paul McCartney and the Beatles were also part of the "Second British
> Invasion" which, while not in the form of invading
> armies, did cause alot of damage to Canadian culture; a sentiment
> widely shared by artists, painters, and poets in
> both English Canada and French Canada.
>
so it is just that you dont like British People? who're you calling raciste?
MI Wakefield
"Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> wrote in message
If only.
Peter Otool
> Peter Otool <xm5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> De toute façon, ce sont les montréalais qui chialent contre le
>> spectacle. Les gens de Québec sont tres content, eux.
>>
>
> That's strange. If so.
Yes it's the montréalers who's doing all the trouble. I live in Québec
city, and whe laugh at montrealers because they are the one who said
those stupid thing. Montrealer never like it when another city in the
province of Quebec do something better than they are. Look at the name
of the people who are writing about it, and you will see that they all
come from Montreal.
But I have to say that Montreal tried to have Paul, and Paul says no to
them. He only accepted to sing in Quebec city.
Glad for us, sad for them.
Peter Otool
> Force Majeure wrote:
>> Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> Le Patriote wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de
>>>> news:GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
>>>>
>>>>> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only
>>>> artist.
>>>>
>>>> Would never happen , lol
>>>>
>>>>> McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
>>>> And its anything but free, you think McCartney comes here for free ?
>>>> Dumb
>>>> canadian, hilarious.
>>> It was billed as a free concert. If there is a concert and admission
>>> is free,
>>> it's a free concert. Nobody said that McCartney was not not being paid.
>>> Who is the stupid one? Hint... look in a mirror.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The taxpayers and the sponsors are on the hook for this one.
>
> yah go figure- the French complain bitterly about McCartney whilst we
> here in BC would like to see about half of what Quebec got for their
> party, for OUR province's birthday!
> heck, we'd be happy to have McCartney, too.
In Quebec city we are happy. It's the montrealers who's crying like babies.
Peter Otool
> tolerated! We've grown up to be told that the Québec city people are into
> their privacy.
>
What ? The 101 bill (no school in english, no sign in store, etc) came
from the montrealers, not the people of Quebec city. Like you said,
English and multiculturalism is tolerated, not accepted by many. All the
problems about french speaking vs english speaking come from montreal,
not from Quebec city.
Talk with people from Quebec city and from Montreal, and you'll see a
lot of difference.
Chom Noamsky
>> It's just absolute juvenility to politicise a concert. The Battle of the
>> Plains of Abraham happened over 250 years ago for freak's sake. Don't
>> tell me, you think the French have never commited any crimes and
>> atrocities of their own? Why don't we go back to the Norman conquest of
>> England, and use that as an excuse to ban Celine Dion from the entire
>> English speaking world?
>
> If only.
Her voice can make ears bleed, like my own, but nobody ever abused Dion for
being born French-Canadian
MI Wakefield
"Force Majeure" <ForceM...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22e9b2109...@news.individual.net...
Snip!
> That's why you often run into people who speak not a word of English in
> Quebec but have last names of Irish roots.
There was a story a few years back that upset some Quebecers ... turns out
they weren't as pur laine as they thought ... Alarie for example, is a
corruption of O'Leary.
Robert Pauzé
<bluedev...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
93156ef5-604c-4cbe...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 17, 3:01 pm, "Robert Pauzé" <pa...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
> GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary
> by a popular French-only
> > accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
> > small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would
> > object
> > to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
> > catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo
> > on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over
> > it.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary apprécieraient
> que
> le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en français. Tu
> sembles
> oublier que c'est le 400ième de Québec pour souligner la création de la
> ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la présence française que
> l'on
> souligne. C'est comme si les américains demandaient à un Irakien de venir
> chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un point, je ne suis pas
> obligé
> d'y aller et je n'irai pas même si j'aime bien Paul.
Typical french fuck posting french to an English message forum.
____________________________________________________________________
You need to talk to Chom first. He put his post on soc.culture.quebec in
english on a french newsgroup. He insulted french speaking people with the
word 'frog' For these reasons I wrote in french.
Robert Pauzé
"Peter Otool" <xm5...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
X-udnYX3pYLzeuLV...@b2b2c.ca...
Vois-tu Pétair tu exagères. Quelques Montréalais ne veut pas dire tous les
Montréalais.
Perso, je n'ai rien contre la venue de Paul mais je n'irai pas tout
simplement à cause de la difficulté du retour vers Montréal puisque j'ai un
rendez-vous lundi matin.
Autre point, Chom Noamsky insulte les francophones inutilement mais jamais
il ne te viendrait à l'idée de le critiquer mais c'est plus facile de t'en
prendre toi aussi aux francophones surtout s'ils sont Montréalais.
gene
waste...especially when you consider that its a teeny tiny miniscule
minority , maybe a few hundred at most, the real lunatic fringe, who are
pissed that Mcartney is performing...its such a non-issue here in Quebec.
"MI Wakefield" <bed...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:487fb07c$0$29596$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
>
> "Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> wrote in message
> news:GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
>> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only
>> artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>> accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>> small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object
>> to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
>> catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her.
>
> OK. Now you're just teasing us.
catchme
i should go to Montreal and try to be understood in Japanese....
Many Montrealers come to BC and ask our foreign working holiday visa
staff to be served in French....the poor souls, (Japanese, etc) who can
barely understand the various dialects of English....to say nothing of
the Southern State Americans who occasionally come into Vancouver by way
of cruise ship.
penny
wrote:
>On Jul 17, 4:38�ｿｽpm, "Gen. Gus Cann" <c...@ashpile.dot> wrote:
>> <bluedevil_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:93156ef5-604c-4cbe...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 17, 3:01 pm, "Robert Pauz�ｿｽ" <pa...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> a �ｿｽcrit dans le message de news:
>> > GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary
>> > by a popular French-only
>> > > artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>> > > accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>> > > small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would
>> > > object
>> > > to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
>> > > catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo
>> > > on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over
>> > > it.
>> > > If you don't like McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
>>
>> > ______________________________________________________________________
>> > Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary appr�ｿｽcieraient
>> > que
>> > le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en fran�ｿｽais. Tu
>> > sembles
>> > oublier que c'est le 400i�ｿｽme de Qu�ｿｽbec pour souligner la cr�ｿｽation de la
>> > ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la pr�ｿｽsence fran�ｿｽaise que
>> > l'on
>> > souligne. C'est comme si les am�ｿｽricains demandaient �ｿｽ un Irakien de venir
>> > chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un point, je ne suis pas
>> > oblig�ｿｽ
>> > d'y aller et je n'irai pas m�ｿｽme si j'aime bien Paul.
>>
>> Typical french fuck posting french to an English message forum.
>>
>> This forum is can.politics not redneckcan.politics
>> You're out of your element boy �ｿｽ.... you racists are allowed, but you are
>> not permitted to enforce your facism here.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Well, Google list Can.Politics as an English group.
>Looks like you are the one out of his element.
Google is wrong in listing Can. Politics as an English group. They
have not taken into account that Canada is a bi-lingual country with
two official languages.
>Another thing. Disliking french forced on us as taxpayers does not
>make us racist. Last time I checked, the french were still white.
You still discriminate, but ,according to language, and an official
language of Canada to boot.
Penny
penny
<ForceM...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Gen. Gus Cann <ca...@ashpile.dot> wrote:
>> Well, Google list Can.Politics as an English group.
>> Looks like you are the one out of his element.
>> Another thing. Disliking french forced on us as taxpayers does not
>> make us racist. Last time I checked, the french were still white.
>> Guess that makes you the ignorant redneck.
>>
>Anyone cross posting to qc.politique or soc.culture.quebec in English gets
>shit on big time (usually in French) for posting outside of the resident and
>majority language used there.
That doesn't mean we should be so rude in our behaviour to people
posting in another language in our group. Two wrongs do not make a
right.
>The majority language in can.politics is
>English.
Because Google says it is. They are wrong.
can.politics is a Canadian group and as such has two official
languages. In the past I've seen some French postings here and a
few discussions in French, and that's how it should be.
I can't abide protectionism and isolationism, especially toward one's
own countrymen. Cooperation is the buzzword for a peaceful
co-existence.
> Even asshole racists from Europe who post crap in German or Dutch
>have the courtesy to put in the subject line that it is in German or Dutch.
The original comment in this thread was posted to :
soc.culture.quebec,soc.culture.canada,can.politics,ont.politics,ab.politics
Penny
Chom Noamsky
"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
news:h7h1849g7l51bb61t...@4ax.com...
>>> <bluedevil_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:93156ef5-604c-4cbe...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> a �crit dans le message de news:
>>> > GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...> Suppose a free concert was held in
>>> > Calgary
>>> > by a popular French-only
>>> > > artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>>> > > accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>>> > > small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would
>>> > > object
>>> > > to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
>>> > > catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her.
>>> > > Booo
>>> > > on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get
>>> > > over
>>> > > it.
>>> > > If you don't like McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck
>>> > > poutine.
>>>
>>> > ______________________________________________________________________
>>> > Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary
>>> > que
>>> > le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en fran�ais. Tu
>>> > sembles
>>> > oublier que c'est le 400i�me de Qu�bec pour souligner la cr�ation de
>>> > la
>>> > ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la pr�sence fran�aise que
>>> > l'on
>>> > souligne. C'est comme si les am�ricains demandaient � un Irakien de
>>> > chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un point, je ne suis pas
>>> > oblig�
>>>
>>> Typical french fuck posting french to an English message forum.
>>>
>>> This forum is can.politics not redneckcan.politics
>>> not permitted to enforce your facism here.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>Well, Google list Can.Politics as an English group.
>>Looks like you are the one out of his element.
>
>
> Google is wrong in listing Can. Politics as an English group. They
> have not taken into account that Canada is a bi-lingual country with
> two official languages.
>
>
>>Another thing. Disliking french forced on us as taxpayers does not
>>make us racist. Last time I checked, the french were still white.
>
>
> You still discriminate, but ,according to language, and an official
> language of Canada to boot.
The only place in Canada not protected against language discrimination is
Quebec. Any language that competes with French is subject to persecution by
the language police in that province.
As far as I'm concerened anyone should be able to post to any NG in any
language they like. People usually don't though, it's ineffective to post
to groups in a language that isn't understood by the audience. When
crossposting English to French-Canadian NG's, there is a good chance at
least half or more, if not all, of the audience can understand it just fine.
Quite often you get attacked for it, but all NG's concerning Canada are fair
game for French or English, or any of the other languages spoken in Canada
and the world.
Xara Daca
> Chom Noamsky wrote:
> > Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only artist.
> > Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be accusations of
> > cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet, small concert with a
> > few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object to it. Wonder how
> > popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never catered to the anglo
> > audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo on the sovereignist
> > Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over it. If you don't like
> > McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
>
> roots of Quebec nationalism. A few weeks ago I went on a trip to the Baltic and
> visited Estonia,
Next time in Estonia, try speaking russian.
penny
>
>"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>news:h7h1849g7l51bb61t...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:45:04 -0700 (PDT), bluedev...@yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jul 17, 4:38 pm, "Gen. Gus Cann" <c...@ashpile.dot> wrote:
>>>> <bluedevil_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:93156ef5-604c-4cbe...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jul 17, 3:01 pm, "Robert Pauzé" <pa...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>>> > GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...> Suppose a free concert was held in
>>>> > Calgary
>>>> > by a popular French-only
>>>> > > artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>>>> > > accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>>>> > > small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would
>>>> > > object
>>>> > > to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
>>>> > > catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her.
>>>> > > Booo
>>>> > > on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get
>>>> > > over
>>>> > > it.
>>>> > > If you don't like McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck
>>>> > > poutine.
>>>>
>>>> > ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> > Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary
>>>> > apprécieraient
>>>> > que
>>>> > le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en français. Tu
>>>> > sembles
>>>> > oublier que c'est le 400ième de Québec pour souligner la création de
>>>> > la
>>>> > ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la présence française que
>>>> > l'on
>>>> > souligne. C'est comme si les américains demandaient à un Irakien de
>>>> > venir
>>>> > chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un point, je ne suis pas
>>>> > obligé
>>>> > d'y aller et je n'irai pas même si j'aime bien Paul.
>>>>
>>>> Typical french fuck posting french to an English message forum.
>>>>
>>>> This forum is can.politics not redneckcan.politics
>>>> You're out of your element boy .... you racists are allowed, but you are
>>>> not permitted to enforce your facism here.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>Well, Google list Can.Politics as an English group.
>>>Looks like you are the one out of his element.
>>
>>
>> Google is wrong in listing Can. Politics as an English group. They
>> have not taken into account that Canada is a bi-lingual country with
>> two official languages.
>>
>>
>>>Another thing. Disliking french forced on us as taxpayers does not
>>>make us racist. Last time I checked, the french were still white.
>>
>>
>> You still discriminate, but ,according to language, and an official
>> language of Canada to boot.
>
>The only place in Canada not protected against language discrimination is
>Quebec. Any language that competes with French is subject to persecution by
>the language police in that province.
I realize that and I understand that their history has made many of
the people of that province very protectionist about their language
and the consequent need to preserve it However, the "language
police" have been a pretty radical step as I'm sure many Quebecers
also believe. . . This kind of protectionism certainly doesn't show
them in a good light to the rest of the world.
Still, since English is the language of the Internet and world trade
we shal see a continuing huge increase in the use of English along
with Chinese all over the world in the future including in Quebec.
You can't trade in English all day, work on the Internet at night and
still claim French as your first language. .
I am convinced that in fifty years most Quebecers will be dreaming in
English or maybe Chinese. And I gather from questioning over decades
that your first language is the one you dream in. ;-)
There are, of course, some people who just don't dream.
But, there will always be a group that will preserve the French
language of Quebec. Just as there will always be a group in Wales who
will preserve the Welsh language , if they survive global warming,
that is.
.
>As far as I'm concerened anyone should be able to post to any NG in any
>language they like. People usually don't though, it's ineffective to post
>to groups in a language that isn't understood by the audience. When
>crossposting English to French-Canadian NG's, there is a good chance at
>least half or more, if not all, of the audience can understand it just fine.
>Quite often you get attacked for it, but all NG's concerning Canada are fair
>game for French or English, or any of the other languages spoken in Canada
>and the world.
Just as all politics is fair game for this group. It's not possible
to isolate Canadian politics from the politics of the rest of the
world, particularly the big bully next door to us.
Penny
Chom Noamsky
> You need to talk to Chom first. He put his post on soc.culture.quebec in
> english on a french newsgroup. He insulted french speaking people with the
> word 'frog' For these reasons I wrote in french.
Wrong... wrong... wrong... soc.culture.quebec is NOT an exclusive
francophone newsgroup. The name clearly states it is about the culture of
Quebec which is a hybrid of French-Canadian and English-Canadian culture (it
is debatable which language is actually dominant in Quebec). What is truly
insulting is to claim non-francophone Canadians living in Quebec are not
part of Quebec culture.
Chom Noamsky
> i should go to Montreal and try to be understood in Japanese....
> Many Montrealers come to BC and ask our foreign working holiday visa staff
> to be served in French....the poor souls, (Japanese, etc) who can barely
> understand the various dialects of English....to say nothing of the
> Southern State Americans who occasionally come into Vancouver by way of
> cruise ship.
Anyone who comes to BC and expects to be served in French will become hungry
and tired very quick. If they are looking for Canada Post or the Service
Canada desk, where federal law dictates they must have a few bilingual staff
to serve the non-existent francophone population of BC, then they are in
luck.
Peter Otool
>
> Montreal is weird, but so are Quebec politicians sometimes.
>
> Canadiens Captain, the great Finn Saku Koivu who survived cancer and is a
> great leader, was criticized for his lack of French.
>
> All that, despite how he raised over $10 million to build a cancer hospital
> near Montreal.
>
> The politicians should be ashamed for criticizing him becuase his French
> isn't all that good.
Who cares if he doesn't speak french ? That's have nothing to do with
what he has done on and off the ice.
Let's hope that they (the politicians) will wake up.
Peter Otool
Depuis l'annonce du spectacle qu'on entend, qu'on lit des commentaires
tout à fait ridicules dans les journaux et ailleurs.
C'est sur que ce n'est pas tous les Montréalais qui sont contre la venue
de Paul, sauf que le Party est a Québec, pas à Montréal. Fait que les
Montréalais pas content n'ont qu'a rester chez-eux. Réussir a voir une
attaque contre la francophonie au Québec car les anglais ont gagné sur
les plaines en 1759, faut vraiment le faire.
Godfrey Blunt
The logic is irrefutable!
And, don't forget that if you don't like spaghetti, you're not part of
Italian culture.
catchme
>
> Still, since English is the language of the Internet and world trade
> we shal see a continuing huge increase in the use of English along
> with Chinese all over the world in the future including in Quebec.
> You can't trade in English all day, work on the Internet at night and
> still claim French as your first language. .
"English is the language of the internet".....
英語の 印てｒねと一番です。
if you can see the above script, you have just seen japanese kanji....on
the internet.
snowman
> On Jul 17, 2:02 pm, "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> wrote:
>> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only artist.
>> Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be accusations of
>> cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet, small concert with a
>> few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object to it. Wonder how
>> popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never catered to the anglo
>> audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo on the sovereignist
>> Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over it. If you don't like
>> McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
>
I'll second that sentiment. Although the 'frog' thing is a little
uncalled for.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" -Nietzsche
"To Be Is To Do" -Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" -Sinatra
penny
wrote:
>penny wrote:
>
>>
>> Still, since English is the language of the Internet and world trade
>> we shal see a continuing huge increase in the use of English along
>> with Chinese all over the world in the future including in Quebec.
>> You can't trade in English all day, work on the Internet at night and
>> still claim French as your first language. .
>
>
>"English is the language of the internet".....
>??????????????
>if you can see the above script, you have just seen japanese kanji....on
>the internet.
Perhaps I should have said that English is the top language of the
internet. Chinese is second.
I'm surprised that Japanese beats out French.
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm
Penny
slipperbass
trouve ca meme tres hypocrite de notre part de s'offusquer de la présence de
mccartney a quebec. d'une part parce que meme les plus purs des
souverainistes consomment autant de musique anglophone a l'année longue que
n'importe qui d'autre sur la planete, et surtout considérant que, a
montréal, aux fetes de la st-jean, on avait un américain d'origine sur scene
en le nom de zachary richard...
zachary, malgré tout le respect que je lui dois, a cause de ses origines
américaines, de sa carriere anglophone des années 80, il n'avait pas
d'affaire la lui non plus a ce que je sache, peut importe s,il chante en
francais, ou qu'il soit un amoureux de la langue de moliere etc...... et
tant qu,a faire, les ethnos non plus on pas d'affaire a participer aux
fetes de la st-jean, aux francofolies et autres spectacles ou on est censé
célébrer la chanson francophone d'ici... bref, on peut chanter dans toutes
les langues barbares possibles mais pas question de laisser un britanique
nous chanter des chansons qui on réellement eue un impact sur toute la
culture populaire mondialement. sans mccartney, la moitié des artistes
québécois n'aurait jamais fait de musique de leurs vie, on semble
l'oublier....
"Robert Pauzé" <pa...@videotron.ca> a écrit dans le message de
news:3KMfk.23$1m4....@weber.videotron.net...
>
> "Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
> GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
>> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only
>> artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>> accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>> small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object
>> to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
>> catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her.
>> Booo on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get
>> over it. If you don't like McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck
>> poutine.
>>
Anne G
> sans mccartney, la moitié
> des artistes québécois n'aurait jamais fait de musique de leurs vie, on
> semble l'oublier....
Ah, ben ç'aurait pas été une si mauvaise chose, ça...
penny
>Chinese? There are 27 dialects of Chinese in China. Many are unable to
>grasp what the other person speaking a dialect is saying to them!
>
Not unlike Britain , then. Who can understand cockneys or geordies
etc, !
>
>Hong Kongers were raised to speak Cantonese, but are quickly learning
>Mandarin so they can communicate efficiently for business purposes with
>people on the mainland.
Business seems to be a big global motivating factor.
Penny
Bruno
I couldn't agree more
And, if you want the world to sound the same, look at the former Soviet bloc.
The Soviets made sure that Russians were forcefully immigrated to regions
where they didn't belong.
The woman who cuts my hair speaks with a distinctive Russian accent, but when
I asked here where she was from, she told me that she was from Uzbekistan.
You see, she's of Russian decent, but her folks were of the Russians who the
Soviets moved to places like Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Chechnya and the
Ukraine, to essentially wipe out the existing cultures and languages and
replace them with "white Russian", Soviet culture.
The heritage and language of the homelands were literally decimated, and
replaced.
China, however, was too big to do that sort of thing.
So they still have the 27 dialects, many whom are not understood by some
others.
Bruno
the UK! :(
Chom Noamsky
news:Y2dgk.36$4c5....@wagner.videotron.net...
> personnellement, je dirais que cet argument la vaut pas grand chose. je
> trouve ca meme tres hypocrite de notre part de s'offusquer de la présence
> de mccartney a quebec. d'une part parce que meme les plus purs des
> souverainistes consomment autant de musique anglophone a l'année longue
> que n'importe qui d'autre sur la planete, et surtout considérant que, a
> montréal, aux fetes de la st-jean, on avait un américain d'origine sur
> scene en le nom de zachary richard...
>
> zachary, malgré tout le respect que je lui dois, a cause de ses origines
> américaines, de sa carriere anglophone des années 80, il n'avait pas
> d'affaire la lui non plus a ce que je sache, peut importe s,il chante en
> francais, ou qu'il soit un amoureux de la langue de moliere etc...... et
> tant qu,a faire, les ethnos non plus on pas d'affaire a participer aux
> fetes de la st-jean, aux francofolies et autres spectacles ou on est
> censé célébrer la chanson francophone d'ici... bref, on peut chanter dans
> toutes les langues barbares possibles mais pas question de laisser un
> britanique nous chanter des chansons qui on réellement eue un impact sur
> toute la culture populaire mondialement. sans mccartney, la moitié des
> artistes québécois n'aurait jamais fait de musique de leurs vie, on semble
> l'oublier....
Thanks for that note. I want to go out and hug a French-speaking people
right now ;)
Tsingi
> "Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
> GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
>> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only
>> artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>> accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>> small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would
>> object to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she
>> never catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of
>> her. Booo on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world,
>> get over it. If you don't like McCartney's FREE music, stay home and
>> suck poutine.
>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary apprécieraient
> que le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en français. Tu
> sembles oublier que c'est le 400ième de Québec pour souligner la
> création de la ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la présence
> française que l'on souligne. C'est comme si les américains demandaient à
> un Irakien de venir chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un
> point, je ne suis pas obligé d'y aller et je n'irai pas même si j'aime
> bien Paul.
Babel Fish translation...
On the other hand I am not on the citizens of Calgary would appreciate
that the most important spectacle of the stampeede is done in French. You
seem to forget that c' is 400ième (400th anniversary) of Quebec to
underline the creation of the city by Samuel De Champlain in 1608. C' is
the French presence that l' one underlines. C' is as if American asked an
Iraqi to come to sing for July 4. You are right on a point, I am not
obliged d' there to go and I n' will not go even if j' like Paul.
penny
Tell me about it. " BBC English " speakers like to say they have no
accent. It's just the plum that causes them to speak that way. :-)
I lived in London for seven years.
Penny
penny
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:30:27 -0400, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:45:04 -0700 (PDT), bluedev...@yahoo.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Jul 17, 4:38 pm, "Gen. Gus Cann" <c...@ashpile.dot> wrote:
>>>> <bluedevil_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:93156ef5-604c-4cbe...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jul 17, 3:01 pm, "Robert Pauzé" <pa...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > "Chom Noamsky" <b...@bbq.yum> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>>> > GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary
>>>> > by a popular French-only
>>>> > > artist. Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be
>>>> > > accusations of cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet,
>>>> > > small concert with a few dozen people showing up, but nobody would
>>>> > > object
>>>> > > to it. Wonder how popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never
>>>> > > catered to the anglo audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo
>>>> > > on the sovereignist Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over
>>>> > > it.
>>>> > > If you don't like McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
>>>>
>>>> > ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> > Par contre je ne suis pas sur que les citoyens de Calgary apprécieraient
>>>> > que
>>>> > le spectacle le plus important du stampeede se fasse en français. Tu
>>>> > sembles
>>>> > oublier que c'est le 400ième de Québec pour souligner la création de la
>>>> > ville par Samuel De Champlain en 1608. C'est la présence française que
>>>> > l'on
>>>> > souligne. C'est comme si les américains demandaient à un Irakien de venir
>>>> > chanter pour le 4 Juillet. Tu as raison sur un point, je ne suis pas
>>>> > obligé
>>>> > d'y aller et je n'irai pas même si j'aime bien Paul.
>>>>
>>>> Typical french fuck posting french to an English message forum.
>>>>
>>>> This forum is can.politics not redneckcan.politics
>>>> You're out of your element boy .... you racists are allowed, but you are
>>>> not permitted to enforce your facism here.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>Well, Google list Can.Politics as an English group.
>>>Looks like you are the one out of his element.
>>
>>
>>Google is wrong in listing Can. Politics as an English group. They
>>have not taken into account that Canada is a bi-lingual country with
>>two official languages.
>>
>>
>>>Another thing. Disliking french forced on us as taxpayers does not
>>>make us racist. Last time I checked, the french were still white.
>>
>>
>>You still discriminate, but ,according to language, and an official
>>language of Canada to boot.
>>
>>Penny
>
>
>Not Canada, just 9 provinces and 3 territories; English is not a
>'protected' language in Quebec, where you can be fined for putting up
>and English sign, even our supreme court OK'd that little gem.
You must have missed my earlier post , Barry, in which I responded to
part of your comment. I've copied it below .
What I didn't know was that the supreme court put the seal of approval
on Quebec protecting their language. Big mistake there !
******************************
>I realize that and I understand that their history has made many of
>the people of that province very protectionist about their language
>and the consequent need to preserve it However, the "language
>police" have been a pretty radical step as I'm sure many Quebecers
>also believe. . . This kind of protectionism certainly doesn't show
>them in a good light to the rest of the world.
>Still, since English is the language of the Internet and world trade
>we shal see a continuing huge increase in the use of English along
>with Chinese all over the world in the future including in Quebec.
>You can't trade in English all day, work on the Internet at night and
>still claim French as your first language. -- ( Especially with the huge amounts
> of technological and scientific words being absorbed continuously into the
>language ).
>I am convinced that in fifty years most Quebecers will be dreaming in
>English or maybe Chinese. And I gather from questioning over decades
>that your first language is the one you dream in. ;-)
>There are, of course, some people who just don't dream.
> But, there will always be a group that will preserve the French
>language of Quebec. Just as there will always be a group in Wales who
>will preserve the Welsh language , if they survive global warming,
>that is.
*****************************
Penny
.
penny
>> I asked her where she was from, she told me that she was from Uzbekistan.
Uzbekistan is not a nice place to have lived. That's the country
where they have boiled some prisoners to death.
>>
>> You see, she's of Russian decent, but her folks were of the Russians who the
>> Soviets moved to places like Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Chechnya and the
>> Ukraine, to essentially wipe out the existing cultures and languages and
>> replace them with "white Russian", Soviet culture.
>>
>> The heritage and language of the homelands were literally decimated, and
>> replaced.
It's very disorientating when your History is all screwed up. The
sense of "belonging in the world" disappears.
>>
>>
>> China, however, was too big to do that sort of thing.
>> So they still have the 27 dialects, many whom are not understood by some
>> others.
Could be that because dialects are not languages , the culture of
people with dialects would be the same as one or the other of the
seven families of languages in China.
Penny
R2D2
> Suppose a free concert was held in Calgary by a popular French-only artist.
> Would there be protests of indignation? Would there be accusations of
> cultural insult? No. Likely it would be a very quiet, small concert with a
> few dozen people showing up, but nobody would object to it. Wonder how
> popular Celine Dion would have gotten if she never catered to the anglo
> audience? Nobody would have ever heard of her. Booo on the sovereignist
> Frogs... anglos rule the cultural world, get over it. If you don't like
> McCartney's FREE music, stay home and suck poutine.
Hello
You must understand the fact that we French canadian love Paul
McCartney. It is only a bunch of stupid persons that are narrow minded
and don't figure out any issues but separatism.
Their issue is in fact a dead end. Yesterday Sir Paul was received as a
God and from his sayings he told it was the warmest audience he
received.
So don't pay attention to probably around 100 stupids always the same
that speak lound. They are not representative of the vast majority
opened to immigration and other cultures.
A french canadian.
-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------
Léo N.J. Maisonneuve
Sir - I do not agree at all with the way you are responding and using a word
that attacks directly my nationality. You are attacking all of us ... but
don't ever forget
Most Québéquois are happy and very proud for the welcome we gave Sir Paul.
Fortunately, nothing happened to tarnish our wonderful Canada.
I don't agree myself with some of the comments made by a very low minority.
Not a reason to attack all Québec nationalists.
Léo N.J. Maisonneuve
Cantley (Québec)
"Chom Noamsky" <be...@bbq.yum> wrote in message
news:GOLfk.140$%b7.11@edtnps82...
klunk
"Léo N.J. Maisonneuve" <beau...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:Ph3ik.7$HU5....@weber.videotron.net...
> Dear Chom!
>
> Sir - I do not agree at all with the way you are responding and using a
> word that attacks directly my nationality. You are attacking all of us
> ... but don't ever forget
> Most Québéquois are happy and very proud for the welcome we gave Sir Paul.
> Fortunately, nothing happened to tarnish our wonderful Canada.
>
> I don't agree myself with some of the comments made by a very low
> minority. Not a reason to attack all Québec nationalists.
apparently, you don't understand that "Québec nationalist" is the same thing
as saying, "i know we're married, but i still get to act like i'm single"...
klunk
"Gaffney" <gaff...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22f2cc834...@news.individual.net...
klunk <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
> apparently, you don't understand that "Québec nationalist" is the same
> thing
> as saying, "i know we're married, but i still get to act like i'm
> single"...
>
of nationalism, just like there are with the Alberta nationalists (and the
success of the extreme ones in elections have been all of 2% of the general
vote in elections). When the economy is doing well in Quebec, the
sovereignists get more attention, when the economy is not doing so well,
it's all about jobs and food on the table.
The few Quebec sovereignists who I know are very reasonable people.
Keep in mind that during the referendum of 1995, the farmers and those in
the
Montreal area predominantly voted Federalist "Non" because Montreal is a
mixed bag of culture, and the farmers relied on Canada's government for
subsidies!
----
i'm certainly not interested in painting an entire culture with a single
sweep of a brush... people are people... and everyone is different... and in
different degrees... and i certainly understand certain levels of patriotism
toward one's home province... but, that's all that is... a province... not a
nation... regardless of whether one is comfortable with their marital
arrangement or not, the fact of the matter is when they establish double
standards, they foster polarities and create divisiveness...
i do understand and am pleased that most Québec residents want to work
together in a positive and mutually beneficial national relationship... and
i do hope that through ongoing cooperation, our bonds of friendship will
continue to strengthen and grow... and a big part of this is my belief that
we stand as the first, best model for the rest of the world to learn how
civilized people resolve the differences that create conflict between
different cultures...
language has impact that cannot always be contextualized by intent... iow...
it lives on and spreads on the basis of its own self-contained
definition.... iow... "Québec nationalist" is a meaningless term to me
unless it's used to create a separation between me and my fellow
Canadians.... i am not privy to the hearts and minds of individuals with
strong feelings on this issue and i cannot identify who's heart is loyal to
our shared nation or not... i can only interpret the words i encounter...
and quite frankly, as benign as "Québec nationalist" may appear to someone
who views such a thing as harmless is indulging in an adherence to a term
and a concept that implies a denigration of what we share together as a
nation... and i find the term quite simply, offensive...
please be clear that i harbour no ill will towards those whom hold such a
term near and dear to their hearts... i would just appreciate a little more
sensitivity displayed by members of a culture which prides itself in its
possession of such refined sensibilities...
iow... no matter how solid my relationship with my wife may be... and no
matter how much we respect our individual independence, i would find it
difficult to bear if my wife continually referred to me as a casual or
second-rate acquaintance... and THAT is the implication of the term "Québec
nationalist" when it's applied without any supporting contextualization....
btw... i find the western separatist movement as offensive as i find the
Quebec separatist movement... and i must point out, after having lived in
Alberta for over 20 years, i never ONCE heard an Albertan refer to
themselves as an "Alberta nationalist"....
Gaffney
> iow... no matter how solid my relationship with my wife may be... and no
> matter how much we respect our individual independence, i would find it
> difficult to bear if my wife continually referred to me as a casual or
> second-rate acquaintance... and THAT is the implication of the term "Québec
> nationalist" when it's applied without any supporting contextualization....
>
>
expanded the European influence in Canada and the northern parts of the USA,
but the British took over. After that? In English Canada, the Irish and
the Scots were still looked down on as cruds by the English, along with the
Quebecois. Though I dislike the language laws in Quebec, I respect their
will and propensity to maintain it. I had a job where I was in contact with
schools in the US north east. It's interesting to note that though 11% of
the USA claims Spanish as their first language, a call to a school in New
Jersey High School will often find the voice mail system in both English and
Spanish, whilst in Ontario, you will not experience French / English on voice
mail all unless you are in touch with a school in Sudbury, Rouyn-Noranda,
Sault Ste. Marie, North Bay or Timmins. So the USA may not have "official
bilingualism" as we do, but the need to have it is apparent.
And don't forget that Sir John A. MacDonald was bilingual. Gaelic and
English. Gaelic being his first tongue.
klunk
---
i totally agree that bilingualism is important... not only as a symbol and
declaration for what makes this a great country, but also as means of
cementing our shared heritage and of proving to the world that language or
culture are not barriers to peaceful cooperation... and even moreso from an
individualistic perspective.... the more languages one is fluent in, the
more capable they are of recognizing and being sensitive to subtleties and
nuances between differing cultures and peoples... and the more capable they
are and will be in navigating this increasingly interdependent global
community....
Gaffney
stupid as ours, with the reality TV game shows and really crappy movies. But
I find it strange that some rabid Quebecois nationalists don't consider the
amazing writings of Jewish Anglo Mordecai Richler or the poetry of Lenoard
Cohen as being "Quebec culture", especially when it is!
klunk
---
bigotry is bigotry... it's one of those human characteristics that always
manifests itself in practically identical expressions everywhere on this
planet...
Gaffney
> bigotry is bigotry... it's one of those human characteristics that always
> manifests itself in practically identical expressions everywhere on this
> planet...
>
interesting act that performed during that night was The Quebecers and their
French buddy's song Belleville Rendevous.
Benoît Charest and Sylvain Chomet for "Belleville Rendez-vous", sung by
Matthieu Chédid in the original version were Oscar nominated for "best song".
They performed it in English at the Oscars, of course.
Everything else that evening was boring. Even the Hollywood critics said so!
klunk
klunk <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
> bigotry is bigotry... it's one of those human characteristics that always
> manifests itself in practically identical expressions everywhere on this
> planet...
>
I was never so proud as during the Academy Awards of 2003 when the only
interesting act that performed during that night was The Quebecers and their
French buddy's song Belleville Rendevous.
Benoît Charest and Sylvain Chomet for "Belleville Rendez-vous", sung by
Matthieu Chédid in the original version were Oscar nominated for "best
song".
----
They performed it in English at the Oscars, of course.
---
... and because of this form of anglo-centricity, i can understand and even
support to some degree the logic of quebec language laws... language does of
course, define a culture...
---
catchme
> "Gaffney" <gaff...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22f2e18d4...@news.individual.net...
> klunk <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
>> iow... no matter how solid my relationship with my wife may be... and no
>> matter how much we respect our individual independence, i would find it
>> difficult to bear if my wife continually referred to me as a casual or
>> second-rate acquaintance... and THAT is the implication of the term
>> nationalist" when it's applied without any supporting
>> contextualization....
>>
>>
> Canada was founded by the French
my bloodline is 25% Norwegian....on behalf of the Aaserude Clan, i would
say we were here first.
and it was the French fur traders who
> expanded the European influence in Canada and the northern parts of the USA,
> but the British took over.
i know my history- during the same period that the french had louisiana,
and Quebec, Spain had California and further points south.
Britain had colonised Ontario, and British Columbia, whilst Russia had
Alaska.
All of this happened roughly during the same years.
North America was a war by proxy for the Empires I listed above, in a
race to see who can acquire the most wealth.
In the end, everyone but England capitulated, conceding that the farther
from their throne, the greater the corruption and therefore the costs
outweighed their profits.
Each empire required a little battle before admitting defeat- this was
to save face with their nations back home and thus avoid an uprising.
After that? In English Canada, the Irish and
> the Scots were still looked down on as cruds by the English, along with the
> Quebecois.
come now- surely you jest! the British Empire and the French had been at
war with each other for centuries....you cannot tell me that during the
time that Canada was a Colony of the British Empire there were no
exchanges of hostilities emerging from your French ancestors?
Though I dislike the language laws in Quebec, I respect their
> will and propensity to maintain it.
I dont- it is definitively un-Canadian.
I had a job where I was in contact with
> schools in the US north east. It's interesting to note that though 11% of
> the USA claims Spanish as their first language, a call to a school in New
> Jersey High School will often find the voice mail system in both English and
> Spanish, whilst in Ontario, you will not experience French / English on
> voice
> mail
there is a difference there, namely that whereas in Montreal's example
it appears they are trying to stamp out the english language altogether
(Francophone unilinguism), in the States they recognise a necessity to
have two languages in various Wal-Marts.
>
> And don't forget that Sir John A. MacDonald was bilingual. Gaelic and
> English. Gaelic being his first tongue.
>
i'm fast approaching bilinguism myself- you should try Japanese!
> ---
--
To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
Resist much, obey little,
Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
ever after-ward resumes its liberty.
-Walt Whitman, 1860
catchme
the purpose of language, is to communicate, mostly for the purpose of
trade with outside territories, countries etc..
when a language does not evolve, it- and the culture behind it- must
therefore stagnate, as it isolates itself from outside influences.
Therefore, Quebec is passive-aggressive- passive in the sense that they
wish to remain in their little secure bubble, speaking exactly the same
dialect they did while they had a French King,
and aggressive in the sense that they would want to force their peculiar
dialect upon the world, beginning with their French- exclusive laws in
Montreal!
klunk
"catchme" <som...@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:Lgqik.134681$gc5.70060@pd7urf2no...
klunk wrote:
> "Gaffney" <gaff...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22f2f19c8...@news.individual.net...
> klunk <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
>> bigotry is bigotry... it's one of those human characteristics that always
>> manifests itself in practically identical expressions everywhere on this
>> planet...
>>
> I was never so proud as during the Academy Awards of 2003 when the only
> interesting act that performed during that night was The Quebecers and
> their
> French buddy's song Belleville Rendevous.
>
> Benoît Charest and Sylvain Chomet for "Belleville Rendez-vous", sung by
> Matthieu Chédid in the original version were Oscar nominated for "best
> song".
>
>
>
> ----
> They performed it in English at the Oscars, of course.
> ---
> ... and because of this form of anglo-centricity, i can understand and
> even support to some degree the logic of quebec language laws... language
> does of course, define a culture...
> ---
the purpose of language, is to communicate, mostly for the purpose of
trade with outside territories, countries etc..
---
language also defines identity and culture and serves a far broader purpose
than the mundane ones you've identified...
======================
when a language does not evolve
---
this is a physical impossibility
======================
, it- and the culture behind it- must
therefore stagnate, as it isolates itself from outside influences.
---
this is totally unrelated to the issue of language...
============================
Therefore,
----
nope... following from your preceding clauses... there is no consequential
"therefore"...
===========================
Quebec is passive-aggressive- passive in the sense that they
wish to remain in their little secure bubble, speaking exactly the same
dialect they did while they had a French King,
and aggressive in the sense that they would want to force their peculiar
dialect upon the world, beginning with their French- exclusive laws in
Montreal!
----
and this last bit... is simply nothing more than projection on your
behalf...
catchme
only to those who would still grunt and wave clubs in the air...
languages- and people- who refuse to evolve, must therefore stagnate and
cease to hold much meaning, outside perhaps as a time-capsule museum.
"and here, just past the Native Nations' exhibit, we have the French
Colonial era...not the period architecture, and their peculiar
anachronistic French dialect which they actually managed to preserve in
its entirety since their King (yes, they still worship a Throne which is
long since gone- France is now a Democracy, you know?) abandoned them."
no wonder our Government has found it easy to give Quebec so much money
for "cultural development"
>
> ======================
>
>
>
> , it- and the culture behind it- must
> therefore stagnate, as it isolates itself from outside influences.
>
> ---
>
> this is totally unrelated to the issue of language...
language and culture go together.
Both are affected by influences in terms of technological advancement
and relations with other nations.
>
> ============================
>
> Therefore,
> ----
> nope... following from your preceding clauses... there is no consequential
> "therefore"...
in your limited imagination, perhaps.
>
> ===========================
>
> Quebec is passive-aggressive- passive in the sense that they
> wish to remain in their little secure bubble, speaking exactly the same
> dialect they did while they had a French King,
> and aggressive in the sense that they would want to force their peculiar
> dialect upon the world, beginning with their French- exclusive laws in
> Montreal!
>
> ----
>
> and this last bit... is simply nothing more than projection on your
> behalf...
>
no, this is not merely my own opinion but also those who share with me
their feelings on Quebec, as visitors from other nations.
I live in downtown vancouver, and i speak on a daily basis with
Persians, Koreans, Japanese, Indonesians etc.- yes even those from
France dont quite get the whole Quebec situation.
Particularly the Japanese- to them, the Quebec are as backward as their
ainu (it seems every culture has a throw-back population), whereas the
Japanese language and culture are evolving (i.e. adapting "borrowed
words" from other languages (German, Portuguese, English, etc) at an
alarming rate) so fast, the younger generation has little idea what it
means "to be japanese".
It is fair to say that this evolution was influenced in the beginning by
the US occupation and Standardising of their language, but they have a
culture who are not afraid to travel and note the customs of others- nor
are they afraid of adapting.
klunk
-----
lol... good job at taking a totally unrelated tangent to bury the simple
fact that you haven't a clue wtf you're talking about... iow, idiot... you
haven't countered that charge... language is in a CONSTANT state of
evolution...
>
> ======================
>
>
>
> , it- and the culture behind it- must
> therefore stagnate, as it isolates itself from outside influences.
>
> ---
>
> this is totally unrelated to the issue of language...
language and culture go together.
Both are affected by influences in terms of technological advancement
and relations with other nations.
----
well... that's another nice tangent... and also totally unrelated to the
initial point about the evolution of language... oh... and you've just
rebutted your previous claim... i'll give you bonus points if you can figure
out how...
> ============================
>
> Therefore,
> ----
> nope... following from your preceding clauses... there is no consequential
> "therefore"...
in your limited imagination, perhaps.
----
no actually, it's your imagination that's creating consequences where none
exist....
---
ya... an insipid opinion by an unthinking clod... it's only "fair" to say
that if you're willing to ignore practically everything about sociology and
the human condition in order to support a myopic opinion drawn from personal
observations and when it's shared with other lunkheads who can't tell fair
from foul....