Adam,
I wanted to let you know that from my experience, this is a common practice – we have the same policy at our museum and many of our tour guides are volunteer. Although I see your point and many of us could use the extra money, the tip is usually meant more for the quality of the information given on the tour rather than the quality of the tour itself (which I am sure is top notch). In the museum field we are usually subject to intellectual property rules and that the information you impart on your tour is owned by the museum you work for and therefore tips on such should also go to them. Unfortunately one of the downsides of museum work is that we do it for the love of history (or art) and not for the financial gain J
That, at least, is my take on the situation. Others, please feel free to correct me.
Dani LaFleur
Collections and Technology Manager
Lakeshore Museum Center
430 W. Clay Ave.
Muskegon, MI 49440
(231) 722-0278
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I concur.
This is a very nice and thorough explanation.
Here are a few random points:
I have spoken to both museum professionals and non-professional museum
goers in the past few hours (in completely casual, non-scientific
manner), and the museum professionals are saying it is up to the
individual museum (some have a don't ask/don't tell policy), meaning
there is no hard-and-fast rule, but donation of tips is a generally-
accepted practice. However, all the museum goers I spoke to
vehemently felt that any tip handed to a guide is specifically
intended to go to the guide.
It is reasonable to assume that if a visitor wants to donate to the
museum, they will do so (and may have already done so, and in turn
will receive the tax deduction they would expect as a donor), and if
they want to show appreciation to the guide, they will do that. It is
also reasonable to assume the visitor would rather have the control
over where the tip goes, and may feel resentment towards a museum that
takes tips away from its employees (if they were privy to that
knowledge). So, if a museum values a donor's intent, they would
either let the guide keep the tips, or verbalize the tip-donation
practice into the tour at some point. To do otherwise would be
dishonest, so my museum-going sources say.
I'm no lawyer, and there very well may be different rules and/or
exemptions for non-profits, but according to the Labor Department:
29 CFR 531.52 - General characteristics of ``tips.''
A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in
recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be
distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
Whether a tip is to be given, and its amount, are matters determined
solely by the customer, and generally he has the right to determine
who shall be the recipient of his gratuity. In the absence of an
agreement to the contrary between the recipient and a third party, a
tip becomes the property of the person in recognition of whose service
it is presented by the customer. Only tips actually received by an
employee as money belonging to him which he may use as he chooses free
of any control by the employer, may be counted in determining whether
he is a ``tipped
employee'' within the meaning of the Act and in applying the
provisions of section 3(m) which govern wage credits for tips.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
and Section Number: 531.40:
...(c) Under the principles stated in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this
section, employers have been permitted to treat as payments to
employees for purposes of the Act sums paid at the employees'
direction to third persons for the following purposes:...voluntary
contributions to churches and charitable, fraternal, athletic, and
social organizations, or societies from which the employer receives no
profit or benefit directly or indirectly.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.40.htm
I would be interested if someone can find some link somewhere to
intellectual property law as it relates to tips received by tour
guides. I can't imagine it exists. It sounds akin to a waiter having
to hand over his tips to the chef for cooking the meal.
Best,
Theresa
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Adam Michalski <atmic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've also been on tours where the tour guide stated, "Tips are
> greatly appreciated." Therefore, I don't see why asking such a question is
> in poor taste. At least I asked first before accepting a bunch of tips that
> possibly should have gone to the museum.
First off, I think asking for tips is in poor taste. Tips are always
optional. There are some professions, mainly wait staff, that work for
"tipped wages", which is below the minimum or standard wage with the
idea that these people are getting tips and therefore will make up the
difference in salary. This is a holdout from a time where the class
system was more formalized. Today, tipped wages are pretty much
limited to wait staff, bus boys, bellhops, bartenders, and other
"counter staff" type people. Everyone else is supposed to be paid at
least minimum wage for their work and for the most part, are not to be
tipped.
For example, you aren't supposed to tip the owner of a business as
they are making money directly off of you. If the owner of a hair
salon cuts your hair, s/he does not get a tip but if one of the
salaried hairdressers cuts your hair, s/he gets a tip. Barristas at
Starbucks and counter staff at Subway are NOT supposed to get tips
because they don't work for tipped wages. Maybe if they go above and
beyond to serve you your highly complex
doublechocoventihalfcafhalfsoyfrappucinolatteexpresso or have your
coffee ready for you every AM as you walk through the door because you
are a regular then it would be appropriate to give them a tip. But if
they simply do their job, which is to serve you coffee or a sandwich,
that is not cause for a tip because they aren't making tipped wages.
> But, it also got me to thinking, "why not allow tour guides to accept tips?" It would give me more financial incentive to give a better tour.
You are either getting paid to do your tour or you are a volunteer and
get personal satisfaction for doing the tour. You should do a good job
because you have pride in yourself and your museum. Expecting a tip is
like "paying for a smile" as one blogger put it.
Now if you are an independent tour operator like for city tours, then
I can see accepting tips if you have provided exceptional service and
go above and beyond giving a simple tour. But again, people are paying
you to do a job just like anyone else that gets paid a set wage to do
a job.
> If the tip goes to the museum, what incentive do I have personally to provide a better tour?
Why are you doing museum tours in the first place? It's a job.
Whatever job you have, you should strive to do your best. Now museums
should encourage and reward employees and volunteers but I'm against
programs that directly link customer feedback to rewards. It sounds
like a good idea but in the end, it just fosters resentment. One tour
guide could deal with the school group from hell and get nothing and
another guide could get the sweet family with perfect kids and get
flowers and a huge tip. Some countries don't allow tipping at all so
visitors from those places are probably not going to offer tips or
compliments because it's not a part of their culture.
Furthermore, I think tipping encourages employees to be fake. I used
to work at a corporate university where all students had to rate their
professors at the end of the class. Professors had to make a minimum
score and the better their ratings, the more their bonus. We would
joke about how the profs that brought their students donuts on the
last day of class before they did their course surveys would
automatically get higher ratings. Sadly, to some extent, it was true.
Also, any waitress knows that if you show a little cleavage, wear some
make-up and flirt with the customers will get you higher tips and that
the prettiest girls or best looking guys will always get better tips.
So while customer feedback is a tool, it isn't the sole judge of who
is the best worker or gives the best tour. Again, people should strive
to do the best tour that they can do because of personal pride in
themselves for doing a good job and wanting to represent their
employer as best as possible.
> Apparently this is not how many museums work, but it's just a
> thought I had to possibly provide a better experience for visitors and bring
> in a little extra revenue to museums that are typically underfunded as it
> is. Would it work? I don't know, but it was just a thought. I'd also
> appreciate any comments or thoughts.
Again, I am against the principle of tipping in museums. If people
like the tour and the museum, then I think they should donate to the
museum. First off, if they are paying an admission fee, they should
not tip as they are already paying for service. For example, here's a
quotation about tipping at Disneyland:
"Walt Disney had strong feelings about tipping that are still
reflected in official policy at Walt Disney World and Disneyland. Walt
did not want guests "bribing" employees to receive preferential
treatment, such as getting a table by tipping a dining room
host/hostess, a better room by tipping a desk clerk, or bypassing a
line by tipping a ride attendant. He wanted all guests to have the
same high level of service, regardless of financial means. As a
result, most Disney employees are expressly prohibited from accepting
tips, and can be terminated for doing so."
Specifically, the service professions at Disney (wait staff, porters,
and bellhops) get tips but regular "cast members" (ride attendants,
info booth people, store clerks) do not. They are all expected to give
everyone the same high quality service. Don't you want everyone in
your museum to get the same high quality service as well? What if word
got out that people were getting extra special treatment because they
tipped the tour guide? How would that make the average visitor feel if
they paid for museum admission and then got an average tour?
Secondly, and more importantly, if the museum employees are civil
servants (i.e. federal, state, or local employees), then they are
probably expressly prohibited from receiving tips so tipping there is
a moot point.
Lastly, as a paying customer, I don't want to be badgered for tips or
have that hanging over my head while I'm on a tour.
Like I mentioned before, I don't like the idea of expecting tips.
People should do their jobs for the wages that they accepted when they
took the job. Tips should be for exceptional service. I don't like how
it seems like every place in America now has a tip jar on the counter,
no matter what the service (at least in my area). That's not how tips
are supposed to work. I'd hope that museums would set a high standard
of service for themselves because they take pride in their institution
and mission, not because they are trying to suck up to the public for
more money.
Deb Fuller
I agree with Theresa's comments and wanted to add a few things.
Tipping museum docents/guides are generally not the norm in museums in
the United States, although it is not uncommon and happens in other
countries such as France and Britain. But, it is common to tip tour
guides in the United States if you are part of a walking tour that
takes you to different sites. Why the difference, I am not sure, but
it may have something to do with non-profit vs. for-profit
institutions and laws.
Of course, in the end, the museum's policy will ultimately determine
what you can and cannot do. With that said, your museum's policy
should be one that does not accept tips and have their docents/guides
decline them when offered. It seems rather unethical for a museum to
let you accept tips, but then turn around and require you to "donate"
the money back to them. I would check into the legality of your
museum's practice in this matter. And, tipping is not a matter of who
"owns" the information intellectually, but instead is given for the
quality of the delivery of the tour--it doesn't matter if you had a
script, you still have to be personable, accurate, engaging, etc.
(this is a personal decision, in the same way you would tip a waiter
that you thought had a welcoming personality and whose service you
liked).
I hope this information helps. It can get complicated and interpreted
in different ways as you can probably tell by the other postings.
Best,
Jane
I do not agree.
Generally, the guide is provided the tools (i.e. training) to make the museum “come alive” by the museum educators. Also, if monetary gain is a large incentive for someone, that person may wish to re-evaluate their choice to pursue a career in the museum profession.
From:
aam...@googlegroups.com [mailto:aam...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie
Courtien
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 7:53 PM
To: tkelliher
Cc: AAM-EMP
Subject: Re: [EMP] Re: Tipping Museum Tour Guides
Very well said Theresa. You're waiter/cook analogy is perfect. Although the museum creates the content, it only comes alive because of an educator who is presenting it in an informative and entertaining way. Besides, who really completely sticks to the script any way? If I had offered someone a tip and they then handed it to the organization they worked for, I would be angry that my money wasn't given to the person who deserved it. It's a pretty bogus standard.
I work at a non-profit art museum FT in Washington DC and a larger
public collection PT there as well.
In my experience there hasn't been a day where a staff member(interns
and docents included) hasn't given a tour at the public museum and
private museum.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
ecmoo...@gmail.com
That said, I agree with Theresa. I don't think guides should ask for
tips (I agree that it's tacky and off-putting) but accepting them is
another matter. Who is the museum to decide what the visitor should do
with their money? If they mean for it to go to the tour guide it
should go to the tour guide. If the museum's policy is that it goes to
the museum this should be made explicit to the visitors so that they
can decide whether or not they still want to tip. You should always
respect your museum's written policy, but you should also feel free to
question or--if you are in a position to do so--reevaluate it. (My
museum has a no-tip policy written into its docent handbook. I put it
there. It's coming out.)
Cheers,
Kirsten
On Mar 3, 9:07 am, Shannon Morris <shannon.mor...@gcsu.edu> wrote:
> I do not agree.
>
> Generally, the guide is provided the tools (i.e. training) to make the museum "come alive" by the museum educators. Also, if monetary gain is a large incentive for someone, that person may wish to re-evaluate their choice to pursue a career in the museum profession.
>
> From: aam...@googlegroups.com [mailto:aam...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Courtien
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 7:53 PM
> To: tkelliher
> Cc: AAM-EMP
> Subject: Re: [EMP] Re: Tipping Museum Tour Guides
>
> Very well said Theresa. You're waiter/cook analogy is perfect. Although the museum creates the content, it only comes alive because of an educator who is presenting it in an informative and entertaining way. Besides, who really completely sticks to the script any way? If I had offered someone a tip and they then handed it to the organization they worked for, I would be angry that my money wasn't given to the person who deserved it. It's a pretty bogus standard.
>
> provisions of section 3(m) which govern wage credits for tips.http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
>
> and Section Number: 531.40:
> ...(c) Under the principles stated in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this
> section, employers have been permitted to treat as payments to
> employees for purposes of the Act sums paid at the employees'
> direction to third persons for the following purposes:...voluntary
> contributions to churches and charitable, fraternal, athletic, and
> social organizations, or societies from which the employer receives no
> profit or benefit directly or indirectly.http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.40.htm
>
> I would be interested if someone can find some link somewhere to
> intellectual property law as it relates to tips received by tour
> guides. I can't imagine it exists. It sounds akin to a waiter having
> to hand over his tips to the chef for cooking the meal.
>
> Best,
> Theresa
>
> On Mar 1, 3:47 am, Adam Michalski <atmichal...@gmail.com<mailto:atmichal...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I am new to the museum field and recently started working as a museum
> > attendant giving tours. I was recently told that if I receive tips at the
> > end of a tour I should not keep them and give them to the museum as a
> > donation. Is this a common policy at other museums and, if so, why? If I
> > gave a tour to an individual or group who liked my tour and gave me a tip,
> > why should that money go to museum and not the poorly-paid attendant?
> > Thanks for any suggestions or clarifications on policies.
>
> > Adam
>
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> I feel like this is a case of museums putting their mission on
> a pedestal. Workers in other professions can accept tips or expect pay
> in line with their skill/education level but if you're a museum
> professional you have to be doing it for love alone. You can't even
> hint you might like to keep your dollar or that you feel like you
> deserve to be paid well without being told you should reevaluate your
> priorities.
You misunderstand the nature of tipping. Tipping is done for the
traditional "service trades", not for "professionals" and is very much
a part of a social class system. Historically, unskilled laborers like
waitresses, bus boys, porters, and their like were paid very little
and quite literally worked for tips. Today, many of these jobs have a
minimum wage but it is lower than regular minimum because again,
people are expected to make up the different in tips. If they don't,
their employer has to make up the difference to bring their hourly
salary up to minimum wage. This is why are you aren't supposed to tip
the owner of a business if they serve you directly but you do tip his
or her staff. The owner of the business is making money directly off
his service whereas the staff is working for tips.
We museum people, are in an "educated" profession. Salary or lack
thereof has nothing to do with expecting or needing tips. We chose to
go into our profession and go through the advanced schooling and
training associated with it. Even volunteers are trained to do their
jobs and by the very nature of being a "volunteer" should not get
tipped. You don't tip your lawyer, doctor, school teacher, college
professor, fireman, police officer, or curator. Front line museum
educators and docents shouldn't get nor expect tips either.
Encourage people who want to tip to make a donation to the museum or
write a letter to the director expressing how much they enjoyed their
visit. Those go a lot further than being handed a couple of bucks.
Deb Fuller
The waiter/cook analogy is clear but, I think, somewhat flawed.
It is common for restaurant employees to pool tips for redistribution among a larger group of staff, including, for example, bus staff. It also is true, for better or worse, that many restaurant patrons consider the tip to be a vote on the overall performance of the entire staff, including the cook. I do. If the wait staff think that tips are suffering because of bad cooking or table busing, then they either push for improvements (that will benefit all) or look for a new job.
In a museum context, I can see morale problems with both paid guides and volunteers who do not receive equal “compensation” because of tipping. All restaurant employees and patrons (in the US) know that tipping is part of the social and business contract that covers staff compensation, and they know that assignment to shifts that generate bigger tips is a form of promotion from management.
In contrast, tips aren’t part of the ordinary business of museum operation or of most visitors’ concept of the social contract between them and the museum staff (whom they would like to think of as “professionals” regardless of their actual pay). Docents and other guides, especially volunteers, often are constrained from working what might be the best-tipping shifts, and I’ve never heard of a museum that considered possible promotion to a “better-tipping” shift as part of its compensation or performance-review policy.
I’d also like to point out the possibility of jealousy between staff who may feel that their competitors (and that is what the other staff become) get better tips because they hint for them or because they cut corners or give favors to curry visitor favor (“well, maybe just this once I could let you touch that beautiful upholstery, but don’t tell anyone I let you”). What do you say to, or about, guides who work school tours as opposed to the more upscale Sunday afternoon art-lover shift.
Maybe there is a workable middle ground, though.
Most (all?) museums have a donation-collection box to encourage spontaneous donations from visitors. Perhaps a museum and/or its docent/guide organization might have a policy that staff members should graciously suggest that spontaneously offered tip/donations be made to the organization’s donation box. If the visitor responds that the tip really is intended for the sole benefit of the individual, then the staff member should either graciously thank the visitor for the honor implied by the offer, but politely decline because of a “firm museum policy” or allow the individual to accept it – whichever museum management prefers.
Jim McClure
From:
aam...@googlegroups.com [mailto:aam...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Courtien
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 4:53
PM
To: tkelliher
Cc: AAM-EMP
Subject: Re: [EMP] Re: Tipping
Museum Tour Guides
Very well said Theresa. You're waiter/cook analogy is perfect. Although the museum creates the content, it only comes alive because of an educator who is presenting it in an informative and entertaining way. Besides, who really completely sticks to the script any way? If I had offered someone a tip and they then handed it to the organization they worked for, I would be angry that my money wasn't given to the person who deserved it. It's a pretty bogus standard.
Thank you, Kirsten. This was the point I was trying to make. It's a
couple of dollars here and there every few weeks. It's not like we
are raking hundreds of dollars in tips every week. The visitor has
paid the admission fee. If at the end of the tour the visitor decides
the tour was exceptional, says to the docent, "we liked the tour,
thank you," and hands the docent a couple of dollars before walking
away, why would it automatically become a donation to the museum? The
visitor did not specifically state it should be a donation to the
museum and, if there is no written policy on accepting/not accepting
tips, then why shouldn't the docent keep it?
I do agree that we don't do museum work for the money. But, why is so
wrong to accept a tip every few weeks to make it almost a living wage?
I have a master's degree, yet I make $8.50 per hour for part-time work
and no health insurance. The director that hired me even admitted the
pay is low and expects to me leave if I find a better offer.
Therefore, I don't understand why the museum should automatically get
the couple dollars I could use to buy a loaf of bread or put towards
student loan payments.
Also, while I appreciate the efforts the education department does to
train docents, I work for a small organization giving a house tour. I
do some of my own research for tours on my own time. In addition, I
have incorporated my own research from my master's thesis into my
tours. My thesis is copyrighted. If I earn a tip on a tour where I
incorporated my thesis research into it, do I get a cut of that money
since it is intellectual property? If so, how much goes to the
museum, how much goes to the library where I did my research and how
much goes to me? At that point we are splitting hairs and agree that
we are putting the museum's mission on a pedestal.
I definitely agree with Theresa and Kirsten that asking for tips is
tacky. I don't do that on any of my tours. In addition, I agree that
the admission price should be a sufficient price to pay for a tour.
When I go on museum tours I think the price is sufficient and I don't
tip the docent. However, I think that if a visitor thought the tour
was exceptional and wanted to give the docent a couple of dollars at
the end of the tour and wasn't solicited, then the docent should be
able to keep the tip. That decision is left to the visitor's
discretion. One hundred percent of the tip proceeds should not
automatically go to the museum. At best the docent should keep the
entire tip. At worst the tip should be split fairly between the
museum and the docent. In general, docents are free labor as it is
and I don't see a problem with them accepting an unsolicited tip from
a visitor every few weeks on a tour.
Adam
We museum people, are in an "educated" profession. Salary or lack
thereof has nothing to do with expecting or needing tips. We chose to
go into our profession and go through the advanced schooling and
training associated with it. Even volunteers are trained to do their
jobs and by the very nature of being a "volunteer" should not get
tipped. You don't tip your lawyer, doctor, school teacher, college
professor, fireman, police officer, or curator. Front line museum
educators and docents shouldn't get nor expect tips either.
> The original poster asked what to do when he himself is given a tip that he
> has not solicited. This happens. Clearly your conception of museum workers
> as professionals who are outside the realm of tips is not one that is
> universally shared by visitors.
First off, there is a tangent thread about why not accept tips if one
makes a comparatively small salary. The example being that waitresses,
bus boys and porters make squat and accept tips so why shouldn't we as
poorly paid museum people accept them too.
Secondly, there are many reasons why museum visitors tip. It might be
because they don't understand the culture of tipping. Or they could be
from a culture where there is excessive tipping. Here in the US, we
have a very specific history and culture of tipping. That was my
point. Just because you make low wages and work with the public,
doesn't mean that you are supposed to be tipped.
> I would say it's not tipping that's a part of a traditional
> class system so much as the concept that a group of people--regardless of
> how poorly they're paid--are engaged in work that is just plain better (more
> elevated, more fulfilling, more important) than service work and therefore
> above tipping. As if tipping is for the working class, and museos are better
> than that.
Please go back and read my posts. Tipping is very much a part of a
class system and to some extent, museum work is part of that class
system. "Museum professionals" of 100+ years ago were most likely
independently wealthy and could afford to go to university, fund their
own research, and travel in the right circles to get a "gentleman's
job" at a museum. Even scientists were independently wealthy or upper
class and either funded their own research or got their cronies to
fund them (i.e. Darwin and his expeditions on the HMS Beagle). If you
had enough money to be part of the "white collar" class, you did not
accept tips. It was beneath you. You would tip the "service
professions" in part because it was considered charitable.
> Let's look at things anew rather than looking back to the way they've typically been done.
I'm all for that. But people have posted on reasons why allowing
docents or employees to accept tips is not the best idea and I have to
agree for reasons that are totally apart for the whole history of
social class issue.
>(Although, to directly refute your claim about not tipping
> lawyers, doctors, teachers etc, it is not at all uncommon for people in
> these professions to receive gifts. Sure, some school districts etc have
> rules against this, but that's usually so that no child feels badly that
> they couldn't afford to give the teacher something. If the class or the PTA
> chip in to get the teacher something that's usually acceptable. And if a
> child disobeys this rule and gives his or her teacher a gift card? The
> school district doesn't claim it.)
Gifts are completely different from tips. For example, government
employees cannot accept tips but they can accept gifts and there are
strict rules on this. (No more than $25 at a time and $50 per year
from any one person or company.) A gift is a one time donation in
appreciation for someone or something. A tip is a gratuity that is
expected every time someone renders a service. You don't give your
teacher gifts after each school day like you would tip a waitress
after each meal.
>It's wonderful if you want to donate your tips to the museum if you are in a comfortable place financially. A couple of dollars won't >make a difference for you but they might make a difference for the museum. The original poster, who is making $8/hr with a masters degree, should feel free to accept a couple of dollars in tips. They probably make a bigger difference for him than for the museum.
Or maybe if the docents keep donating their tips to the museum, the
museum will reason that if enough people are throwing in a few extra
bucks for tips, they won't mind paying a buck or two extra in
admission. Museum gets more money and everyone gets raises, even the
other docents who make $8 with a master's degree and don't get as many
tips as the other docents.
Deb Fuller
Can we please stop having this conversation! I for one would like for this group to agree to disagree. Everyone makes great points on both sides but it’s time to let it rest.
From: aam...@googlegroups.com [mailto:aam...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kirsten Teasdale
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 11:12 AM
To: Deb Fuller
Cc: AAM-EMP; safert...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [EMP] Re: Tipping Museum Tour Guides
We museum people, are in an "educated" profession. Salary or lack
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