LEAVING BROWNSVILLE ASSEMBLY OF GOD
David Matthieu P.P.
by Dr. Herb Babcock, Former Member of Brownsville Assembly Of God
I am presenting the background of our involvement in the Assemblies of God
so that the reader will recognize that we are knowledgeable, experienced,
and mature in our Christian walk. We have hidden God's Word in our hearts.
I was born into a Christian family and chose Jesus to be my Savior while I
was a small child in Sunday School class in the First Presbyterian Church in
Canton, Illinois.
In 1963 my wife and I and our infant son moved to Davenport, Iowa, so I
could attend Palmer College of Chiropractic. Intervarsity Christian
Fellowship had an active chapter there and I quickly became a part of it,
and that led me to visit several area churches. When I walked into the
Assembly of God church in Bettendorf, Iowa, I sensed the presence of the
Holy Spirit, so in 1965 I brought my family into fellowship there until I
graduated from college in 1967. The pastor was Rev. O. H. Hamilton.
Louisville, Kentucky, became our new home in 1967 and we immediately joined
the great church of Evangel Tabernacle under the ministry of Rev. W. L.
Rodgers, where I served as a deacon for fifteen years. We were totally
involved in nursery, Sunday School teaching, and choir. Since our church was
the largest Assembly of God in Kentucky, virtually all of the "big name"
evangelists and ministers came there. Many of the really large ministries of
today were in their formative stages when we became acquainted with them and
sat under their teaching. During these years I was active in Full Gospel
Businessmen's Fellowship International, also.
My wife and I took a family to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, to meetings held by
Kathryn Kuhlman, and attended her meetings in other locations as well. We
visited the church in Orlando pastored by Benny Hinn, and on another
occasion attended a week long seminar in Carpenter's Church in Lakeland,
Florida. We ministered for three years in Christian Prison Ministry of
Kentucky.
Upon moving to Florida in 1983, we joined the First Assembly of God and were
steadfast there until October 1988 when we moved our membership to
Brownsville Assembly of God (BAG). It was a well established and growing
church, where we participated in many aspects of regular church activities,
especially the choir and drama presentations. We loved Rev. Kilpatrick and
were blessed by his presentation of God's Word. During our time there the
church continued to be a vital, growing facility in the city of Pensacola.
It certainly was not a cold or "dead" church and had grown steadily for
years.
On Father's Day, June 17, 1995, Rev. Kilpatrick introduced Evangelist Steve
Hill and said that he was available for one day while he was enroute to
scheduled meetings elsewhere. We had no previous announcements of his
coming. For several weeks leading up to this time; however, some changes had
been taking place, and some of the members of BAG had been traveling up to
Toronto meetings, even taking carloads and vanloads of members along. Mrs.
Kilpatrick made two trips accompanied by the wife of one of the church
officers. Rev. Kilpatrick started to drive up there one time, but his trip
was interrupted and he returned to Pensacola without making it to the
Toronto airport vineyard meeting. I saw no mention of this in his book. When
this series of meetings began in Pensacola, a lot of organization had to be
done in a hurry - namely, the formation of "prayer teams" and how to deal
with the people who came forward. The order of the day was: "That's how they
do it in Toronto."
In an effort to authenticate these meetings and the "impartation" the
evangelist displayed a collection of newspaper clippings (or copies of them)
and made reference to his extensive library of books pertaining to historic
revival meetings of former years. Meetings such as took place on Azusa
Street in California or in the Cane Ridge Hills of Kentucky. Steve Hill
alluded to those meetings and told us that this is the same kind of event,
yet having already declared that God is doing a "new thing." Nobody asked
which was correct: a "new thing" or an "old thing" again?
My family and I hardly ever missed a meeting for the five weeks we
participated. Over and over the evangelist told how he first received the
impartation from a vicar in the Anglican church in England. When they met,
Steve Hill said to the vicar, "We don't have to talk, just pray for me."
When Rev. Kilpatrick announced that God was going to move in our church and
"do a new thing", and that we would "lose hundreds, but gain thousands"; I
immediately thought of the Scriptures in Luke 15:4-7 where the shepherd
leaves ninety-nine sheep in a safe place and goes out to rescue the lost
one. The position announced by Rev. Kilpatrick is directly opposite of the
Scripture example. Incidentally, during the last meeting I attended at BAG,
not one Scripture was used. Recently, I met a local pastor (of another
denomination) who had visited the BAG meeting and he said that there was no
Scripture presented during the session he attended.
The word I have hidden in my heart is the Scripture in I John 4:1. "Beloved,
believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirit whether it be of God!" We
attended approximately 30 meetings and never once did the evangelist or
pastor even suggest that either one of them had made any effort whatever to
obey the Scriptures and try the spirits they are dealing with. That is the
reason I could not continue to be a part of his ministry. In fact, both the
evangelist and the pastor vehemently demanded that NO ONE question the
impartation, or anything said by the pastor or the evangelist. NO ONE should
DARE to come against "the man of God!" was repeated many times,
threateningly.
It is interesting how a claim regarding a prophecy attributed to Korean
Pastor Cho changed three times, each time becoming more specific until it
identified Pensacola as the city where a "great end-time revival" would
break out and spread throughout the world. Actually, I had heard of that
prophecy years before when we lived in Kentucky, and there was speculation
that Evangel Tabernacle would be the church where it was to start. The
prophecy didn't change . . . the telling of it did.
I was included in the prayer teams until we disassociated ourselves from
BAG. While on the prayer team, we were instructed to NOT pray in Jesus'
name. We were told to NOT pray for the needs of people. The only thing we
were to do was touch people on their forehead and say, "More, Lord!" and
keep repeating that until there was an "impartation" of the spirit being
promoted in the meetings. If the person did not respond in a reasonable
time, move on to someone else. Any deviation from the limited procedure
would result in being removed from the prayer team, which did happen to a
few individuals.
I had previously heard of the practice in some belief systems of chanting,
or repeating a phrase called a "mantra." That came to mind when we were told
to say only, "More, Lord!" over and over. In Luke 21:8 Jesus told the
disciples to take heed and not be deceived by people even though they claim
to come in His Name. In other words, situations will be presented to people
in such a believable way that people may be deceived.
God's Word tells us to hide His Word in our hearts that we might not sin
against Him. When we do that, we are strong in His Word and not easily
deceived or following every wind of doctrine. That is the meaning of the
Scripture verse: ". . . the joy of the Lord is your strength." (Nehemiah
8:10). It is a joy to Him when we are strong and victorious through rightly
dividing the Word.
As a result of all this, I am more aware than ever before and want to convey
to everyone the truth that each individual is solely responsible for his/her
right relationship with God. We each will stand individually before the
judgment seat. We MUST have knowledge of HIS word and exercise discernment.
Our eternal well-being depends on our choices.
"Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirit whether it be of
God!" (I John 4:1).
"I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth." (III
John 4).
Howard Duck
<donotreceivethepe...@theyarespiritsofdevilsworkingmiracles.com>
wrote:
> http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/prod03.html
I can only think that what you are describing is part of the last day
apostasy. Surely it will lead to the revealing of the antichrist
which multitudes will believe to be a man of God.
--
Howard Duck
David Matthieu P.P.
"Howard Duck" <hbd...@geusnet.com> wrote in message
news:lufeq012n5tg91jnv...@4ax.com...
While I was at a friend's house, on MSNBC there was a documentary about
Pentecostalism. They were showing in a crowded church some amazing baptism
scenes. The convulsions of the devotees were so strong that the help of
several strong men was needed for their immersion in water. The devotees
were immediately agitated by more violent trances after the forceful dip.
Now wildly gesticulating and loudly yelling, getting the uncontrollable
believers out of the water was evidently a much bigger challenge. Quickly
one of these helpers covered with his hand the mouth of the "baptized"
subject to muffle the piercing screams, with the other hand he energetically
grabbed the wet torso and started to pull with all his strength. Another man
quickly held the hip area, and a third man vigorously seized the feet of the
wildly convulsing subject. The whole restraining maneuver and pulling out of
the water only took a few seconds. Without losing any time the well trained
''baptism'' crew quickly proceeded in removing their anointed cargo out of
the view of the assembly. Only couple Minutes later the removal crew was
back in the sanctuary ready to continue performing their arduous task to
quickly seize and remove all deceived believers that would receive the
baptism of the Beast.
http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm
Even though the leaders of these supernatural movements had specially
trained crews to keep under control these violent scenes of baptism, yet it
is still patent that these are genuine cases of demonic possessions. Some
people do not comprehend my position on this matter, I have absolutely no
problem with the established fact that the Pentecostal and Charismatic do
worship demonic spirits. I understand this is their personal choice and they
certainly have the right to worship as many legions of laughing, barking,
roaring spirits of devils as they want. As a matter of fact I have no
objection at all that for almost a century they have been worshipping the
prince of darkness in anointing and in deceit. The only problem that I have
is this, like the Voodoo adepts why can't they clearly say they worship the
Beast? Where ever Voodoo is practiced, it is unequivocally stated that this
is a worship of the forces of darkness. Refusing to admit the truth, why do
Pentecostal and Charismatic devotees have to blaspheme, shamelessly calling
their demonic spirits of lying signs and wonders Holy Spirit of God?
Refusing to forsake the Beast, why are they associating the name of the Lord
Jesus Christ to their Sorcery? Entirely consecrated to the worship of the
Beast, why do their false prophets have to threaten faithful believers of
Jesus Christ calling them Accusers of the Brethren?
Howard Duck
<johnrev...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> While I was at a friend's house, on MSNBC there was a documentary about
> Pentecostalism.
The thing of it is though, David, that all pentecostalism cannot be
lumped together as though all were either of God or else of the devil.
Many of the older pentecostals are withdrawing from the new
pentecostal churches with the strange manifestations, short Word-less
sermons, little or no conviction for sin, rock-n-roll type music, etc.
Deception is rampant, and the pentecostals and charismatics don't have
a corner on the market. I spent a few short weeks in a modern liberal
seminary, and if there was even one true Christian there, I didn't
meet him (with the exception of another new student who, like myself,
got out of the place forthwith). It is places like that that are
providing much of the ministry of today in our mainline protestant
churches.
David Matthieu P.P.
> The thing of it is though, David, that all pentecostalism cannot be
> lumped together as though all were either of God or else of the devil.
> Many of the older pentecostals are withdrawing from the new
> pentecostal churches with the strange manifestations, short Word-less
> sermons, little or no conviction for sin, rock-n-roll type music, etc.
I am going back in history for my readers who do not know the roots of
Pentecostalism.
The Los Angeles Times wrote in April 1906:
New Sect of Fanatics is Breaking Loose
Wild Scene Last Night on Azusa Street
Gurgle of Wordless Talk by a Sister
"Breathing strange utterances and mouthing a creed which it would
seem no sane mortal could understand, the newest religious sect
has started in Los Angeles. Meetings are held in a tumble-down
shack on Azusa Street, near San Pedro Street, and devotees of the
weird doctrine practice the most fanatical rites, preach the wildest
theories and work themselves into a state of mad excitement in their
peculiar zeal. Colored people and a sprinkling of whites compose the
congregation, and night is made hideous in the neighborhood by the
howlings of the worshippers who spend hours swaying forth and back
in a nerve-racking [sic] attitude of prayer and supplication. They
claim to have "the gift of tongues;" and to be able to comprehend
the babel." - Los Angeles Times
"Such a startling claim has never yet been made by any company of
fanatics, even in Los Angeles, the home of almost numberless creeds.
Sacred tenets, reverently mentioned by the orthodox believer, are
dealt with in a familiar, if nor irreverent, manner by these latest
religionists." - Los Angeles Times
Now it is me David the Usenet Poster writing, I found more information about
the Genesis of the Pentecostal Movement. This was published by William
Joseph Seymour, one of the fathers of Pentecostalism who conducted the so
called Revival of Azusa Street in 1906:
'LETTER FROM BROTHER PARHAM'
'Brother Charles Parham, who is God's leader in the
Apostolic Faith Movement, writes from Tonganoxie, Kansas,
that he expects to be in Los Angeles September 15. Hearing
that Pentecost had come to Los Angeles, he writes,'
"I rejoice in God over you all, my children, though I have
never seen you; but since you know the Holy Spirit's power,
we are baptized by one Spirit into one body. Keep together
in unity until I come, then in a grand meeting let all
prepare for the outside fields. I desire, unless God
directs to the contrary, to meet and to see all who have
the Full Gospel when I come."
Now it is me again David, the question that I have is this: what could have
caused this rejoicing Parham to suddenly oppose the so called Revival of
Azusa Street? According to what he wrote, he was expecting to see "the Holy
Sprit's power". Seymour his Bible student was eagerly expecting his arrival
making preparation to receive him as the leader of this movement.
However upon his arrival in October 1906 at this Revival conducted by
Seymour, because of the chaotic manifestations Parham began his sermon by
saying "God is sick at his stomach". For the rest of his life Parham
denounced the "Revival" of Azusa Street as a "spiritual power prostituted."
It is recorded that Parham was shocked and appalled by the "awful fits and
spasms" of the "holy rollers". Parham who was a strong believer in the Gift
of Tongues declared the utterances of the devotees of Azusa to be
"chattering, jabbering and sputtering, speaking no language at all".
Since 1906 Charles Fox Parham himself, considered also as a father of
Pentecostalism, declared demonic the howling, barking, shrieking, swaying,
and shaking of the devotees of William Joseph Seymour. Why are Pentecostal
devotees so mad at discerning Christians for their observations that these
same manifestations still happening nowadays in these ''anointed'' Churches
are demonic?
To really understand those manifestations in the Pentecostal Churches we
need to go back at the time of Slavery. Some readers may not know that
Pentecostalism is directly linked to slaves brought from Africa who have
left in Louisiana a spiritual legacy called Voodoo. Pentecostalism is both
linked to Louisiana and Slavery, however some readers will deny that this
popular religion has any spiritual ties with Voodoo. Nevertheless in
Louisiana this other spiritual belief called Voodoo has survived the test of
time, its rituals remained unchanged from generation to generation. Those
spirits have been lingering, from fathers to sons, on families traditionally
involved in their worship. In Louisiana born in certain family makes a lot
of difference, many sons and daughters surprisingly one day are called by
these spirits to replace their great grand parents or parents to perpetuate
their worship. This is in this environment of spiritual servitude and
familial curse that William J. Seymour the father of Pentecostalism was born
in Louisiana in 1870, his parents Simon and Phyllis were former slaves.
At the great wonder of the residents of Los Angeles, in 1906 Mr.
William J. Seymour is found conducting a small "Christian"
Congregation at Azusa Street and making spirits fall by legions upon
his followers. The "fire from heaven", the "Anointing" he was calling
Holy Spirit, was strangely manifesting like the familiar spirits
of Louisiana. Eye witnesses of the so called Revival of Azusa
street reported that during these manifestations, women were
projected to the floor gesticulating in very disgraceful manners,
just like in the voodoo ceremonies of Louisiana. In an issue
No. 7 (April, 1907), p. 4 of the Apostolic Faith published by
William Joseph Seymour and his spiritual cohort can be read:
"The power of God shook her so mightily that an elderly lady
friend, who had accompanied her to the meetings, was greatly
agitated and excited about it; she declared that sister was
having a fit, and said something ought to be done to relieve her."
The manifestations were accompanied also by very violent shaking
and jerking similar to the spiritual possessions experienced in
Louisiana. The Apostolic Faith, published in November of 1906,
entitled "Bible Pentecost." on the second page, Glen A. Cook
provided his testimony, in which he wrote:
". . . . My arms began to tremble, and soon I was shaken
violently by a great power, and it seemed as though a large
pipe was fitted over my neck, my head apparently being off. . . ."
In the fourth issue (p. 4), of The Apostolic Faith G. W. Batman
wrote, "I received the baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire and
now I feel the presence of the Holy Ghost, not only in my heart
but in my lungs, my hands, my arms and all through my body and
at times I am shaken like a locomotive steamed up and prepared
for a long journey."
William H. Durham also one of the pioneers of Pentecostalism
recorded his testimony in the sixth issue of The Apostolic Faith
(February-March, 1907), p. 4, where he wrote:
''On Friday evening, March 1, His mighty power came over me, until
I jerked and quaked under it for about three hours. It was strange
and wonderful and yet glorious. He worked my whole body, one
section at a time, first my arms, then my limbs, then my body,
then my head, them my face, then my chin, and finally at 1 a.m.
Saturday, Mar. 2, after being under the power for three hours,
He finished the work on my vocal organs, and spoke through me
in unknown tongues.''
Basically all the characteristics of the spiritual possessions
commonly encountered in Louisiana, were present in the anointed
seances of Azusa's Street Church. Even though the convulsions, the
falling and rolling on the floor were the same, the howling and
bestial noises were identical, the uncontrollable laugher and
gibberish talking were indistinguishable, William J. Seymour
managed to deceive multitudes of Christians and made them receive the
unquestionable anointing from Louisiana as the Holy Spirit of God.
All these chaotic manifestations prove that this legacy of Seymour called
Pentecostalism is simply a refined replica of the voodoo of Louisiana
operating under the cover Christianity.
You will find a picture of Mr. William Joseph Seymour the Anointing Man
from Louisiana at:
http://www.oru.edu/university/library/holyspirit/gifs/seystand.jpg
Howard Duck
<johnrev...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You will find a picture of Mr. William Joseph Seymour the Anointing Man
> from Louisiana at:
>
> http://www.oru.edu/university/library/holyspirit/gifs/seystand.jpg
I'm glad to know a bit about this account. It is good for the truth
to be made known.
If I may offer anything to balance the scales on the side of so-called
Pentecostalism, it is that the Bible does indicate a true gift of the
Holy Spirit of speaking in other tongues, and it admonishes to forbid
not to speak with tongues. However, it is no marvel if the devil has
counterfeit manifestations with which to deceive by means of familiar
spirits.
The book, Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis, has a section in it from
which the movie of the same title was made. The account of Sister
Sharon Falconer sounds very much like Aimee Semple McPherson. Milton
Berle told of having spent a time with McPherson in her home in sexual
intimacy which was very like the account given in Lewis' book. I have
often thought since reading that that McPherson was probably a
multiple personality.
David Matthieu P.P.
>
> I'm glad to know a bit about this account. It is good for the truth
> to be made known.
>
> If I may offer anything to balance the scales on the side of so-called
> Pentecostalism, it is that the Bible does indicate a true gift of the
> Holy Spirit of speaking in other tongues, and it admonishes to forbid
> not to speak with tongues. However, it is no marvel if the devil has
> counterfeit manifestations with which to deceive by means of familiar
> spirits.
>
> The book, Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis, has a section in it from
> which the movie of the same title was made. The account of Sister
> Sharon Falconer sounds very much like Aimee Semple McPherson. Milton
> Berle told of having spent a time with McPherson in her home in sexual
> intimacy which was very like the account given in Lewis' book. I have
> often thought since reading that that McPherson was probably a
> multiple personality.
If you thought the ability of Aimee Semple McPherson to work signs and
wonders stopped at her Grave, you are dead wrong!
Believe it or not, through another well known Medium, Aimee's powers
transcended her grave!
"One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was]
visiting Aimee's tomb in California. This Thursday I'm on TBN.
Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman's tomb. It's
close by Aimee's in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I've been there once
already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects '
cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that
grave, uh, where she's buried is closed, they built walls
around it. You can't get in without a key and I'm one of the
very few people who can get in. But I'll never forget when I
saw Aimee's tomb. It's incredibly dramatic. She was such a
lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side
of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As-as incredible as
it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side
of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there.
I actually, I-I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee's
tomb. I was shaking all over. God's power came all over me.
.. I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee's body.
I know this may be shocking to you. ... And I'm going
to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl
[Palmquist] this week. They're gonna come with me.
You-you-you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee's tomb.
It's incredible. And Kathryn's. It's amazing. I've heard
of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were
totally healed by God's power. You say, 'What a crazy
thing.' Brother, there's things we'll never understand.
Are you all hearing me?" (BENNY HINN)
Do a Google search with these key words:
"Forest Lawn Cemetery"
Benny Hinn
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
.
Howard Duck
<johnrev...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Forest Lawn Cemetery"
>
> Benny Hinn
>
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
Ah ha! Benny Hinn! Well, birds of a feather...
But where is truth to be found, and where do we find true holiness?
We are become like Diogenes searching for an honest man. Whatsoever
doth make manifest is light, yet the cynic has no light to offer.
"The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto
the simple" (Psalms 119:130).
David Matthieu P.P.
> Ah ha! Benny Hinn! Well, birds of a feather...
> But where is truth to be found, and where do we find true holiness?
> We are become like Diogenes searching for an honest man. Whatsoever
> doth make manifest is light, yet the cynic has no light to offer.
>
> "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto
> the simple" (Psalms 119:130).
On the following link I found a controversial video of Benny Hinn's wife:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/3/story_317_1.html
On this Video File you can see Suzanne Hinn say these blasphemous words:
"If your engines aren't revved up, then what you need is
a holy ghost Enema right up your rear end!" - Suzanne Hinn
Readers who are interested can click on the link below to watch the Video:
http://www.beliefnet.com/video/humor/benny_hinn/benny_hinn2_56.ram
On the web site "fakehealers.com" you will also find an interesting article
about Benny Hinn and his Wife where this infamous Video is also mentioned:
http://www.fakefaithhealers.com/howmuchdiscernment.htm
I have also seen the same incident involving Suzanne Hinn the wife of Benny
Hinn but it was captured by another cameraman from a different angle. At the
end of the video presented on the web site above, there are scenes that
cannot be seen since this cameraman was standing in front of the podium.
Anyway what a disgrace for Christianity! Until I actually saw the first
video clip at the time it was made public by Comedy Central, no way I would
have believed that Suzanne Hinn, who is the wife of a so called "Christian"
Minister, could actually utter such nauseating words.
This happened in her husband's home church the Orlando
Christian Center in front of thousands of mystified
followers and the television cameras. Suzanne Hinn,
during this highly anointed service, entirely under
the influence of Benny Hinn's controversial Anointing,
uttered many words of disgrace. Without shame or restraint,
Suzanne Hinn did let the whole anointed beast took over
her soul and body. To the dismay of the audience an
extremely horrible and shocking homily was heard.
Since that ill-famed day, this anointed phrase is forever
memorialized in the annals of infamy of the Apostate Church:
"If your engines aren't revved up, then what you need is
a holy ghost Enema right up your rear end!" -Suzanne Hinn
Click on the link below if you have Windows Media you shall be able to
also listen to the audio file:
http://www.balaams-ass.com/sounds/hinnwife.wav
This incident clearly revealed the scandalous and impious
nature of Benny Hinn's Anointing. The whole incident was so
damaging for Hinn's Ministry that his lawyers wrote a letter
pressuring Comedy Central and charging them to stop
showing the scandalous video. I am now addressing the
followers of Benny Hinn who are actually having an anointed
fit, would you allow me just one question? Since you are
claiming that Benny Hinn's anointing is the Holy Spirit of
God could you please justify why human lawyers were
required for damage control in an desperate attempt
to cover-up what this anointing supposedly from God
has inspired to Suzanne Hinn?
At the end of the video clip from Comedy Central, Suzanne Hinn can be seen
wildly screaming, making weird gestures and uttering an unintellible credo.
Charging back and forth across the podium like a possessed Bull, she finally
did an anointed slide and slowly stopped on her belly...Comedy Central has
now removed this video clip from their site. I have searched the net, I
could not find any other web sites featuring that first clip.
There are also the following articles written by Christians who were shocked
by the litigious behavior of Suzanne Hinn:
http://www.bereanpublishers.co.nz/Deception_in_the_Church/Healer_heal_thyself.htm
Howard Duck
<johnrev...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On the following link I found a controversial video of Benny Hinn's wife:
>
> http://www.beliefnet.com/story/3/story_317_1.html
>
> On this Video File you can see Suzanne Hinn say these blasphemous words:
>
> "If your engines aren't revved up, then what you need is
> a holy ghost Enema right up your rear end!" - Suzanne Hinn
>
> Readers who are interested can click on the link below to watch the Video:
>
> http://www.beliefnet.com/video/humor/benny_hinn/benny_hinn2_56.ram
>
> On the web site "fakehealers.com" you will also find an interesting article
> about Benny Hinn and his Wife where this infamous Video is also mentioned:
>
> http://www.fakefaithhealers.com/howmuchdiscernment.htm
>
> I have also seen the same incident involving Suzanne Hinn the wife of Benny
> Hinn but it was captured by another cameraman from a different angle. At the
> end of the video presented on the web site above, there are scenes that
> cannot be seen since this cameraman was standing in front of the podium.
> Anyway what a disgrace for Christianity! Until I actually saw the first
> video clip at the time it was made public by Comedy Central, no way I would
> have believed that Suzanne Hinn, who is the wife of a so called "Christian"
> Minister, could actually utter such nauseating words.
Yes. I had seen all of these clips (or at least parts of all). They
are disgusting, and Christians should be aware of the apostasy of the
church. I hope, though, that we can find where truth lies, where the
Bible is extolled and preached with a true anointing of the Holy
Spirit. Mainstream churches have become so "liberalized" that they
produce nothing but a social gospel: they don't believe in the virgin
birth, the resurrection of Christ, and other essentials of the
Christian faith. They are mostly dominated by leaders and pastors who
are not really born again believers, though they may have a "form of
godliness (or rather civility)," but denying the power of the Holy
Spirit.
David Matthieu P.P.
> Yes. I had seen all of these clips (or at least parts of all). They
> are disgusting, and Christians should be aware of the apostasy of the
> church. I hope, though, that we can find where truth lies, where the
> Bible is extolled and preached with a true anointing of the Holy
> Spirit. Mainstream churches have become so "liberalized" that they
> produce nothing but a social gospel: they don't believe in the virgin
> birth, the resurrection of Christ, and other essentials of the
> Christian faith. They are mostly dominated by leaders and pastors who
> are not really born again believers, though they may have a "form of
> godliness (or rather civility)," but denying the power of the Holy
> Spirit.
It is revealed in the Book of Revelation that there will be a restoration of
the Church. Unfortunately in Rev 11:4 most Christians only see two witnesses
without realizing that they are also two candlesticks. In Rv:1:20: it it
stated that in the Vision of Saint John the Candlesticks are Churches, so
the two Candlesticks of Rv. 11:4 are two faithful Churches. When the seals
are removed form the message of Revelation Chapter 11, the picture of the
restoration of the Church is absolutely dazzling:
Rv:11:1: And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood,
saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that
worship therein.
2Cor:6:16: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are
the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and
walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of
God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.)
17: Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,
and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18: And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters,
saith the Lord Almighty.
Rv:11:2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and THE HOLY CITY shall they tread
under foot forty and two months.
Mt:5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot
be hid.
Rv:21:10: And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven
from God,
11: Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most
precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rv:21:2: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God
out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3: And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of
God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Much more critical information can be unveiled from the scriptures referring
to this final period of the two witnesses whom the Spirit of the Prophecy
has revealed as two olive trees and two candlesticks. In the verses of
Revelation Chapter 11 the restoration of the Church is also compared to the
rebuilding or the temple of Jerusalem during the time of Zechariah by
Zerubbabel and Joshua:
Rv:11:3: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and
they shall prophesy A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE
DAYS, clothed in sackcloth.
4: These are the TWO OLIVE TREES, and the two candlesticks
STANDING BEFORE THE GOD OF THE EARTH.
Zech:4:
1: And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me,
as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
2: And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have
looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl
upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven
pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3: And TWO OLIVE TREES by it, one upon the right side of the
bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4: So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me,
saying, What are these, my lord?
Zech:4:
11: Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these
TWO OLIVE TREES upon the right side of the candlestick
and upon the left side thereof?
12: And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these
two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty
the golden oil out of themselves?
13: And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be?
And I said, No, my lord.
14: Then said he, These are the TWO ANOINTED ONES, THAT STAND
BY THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH.
Howard Duck
witnesses of Revelation 11 are two churches. Could be, but I don't
see that as applying to the Bride of Christ which comes down from
heaven after the Lord returns. I don't know but what you are mixing
references where they don't belong. Anyway, our doctrines must be
confirmed by many witnesses. When I see more on these things by other
Bible teachers, perhaps I can see it more clearly if you are correct.
What I do see is that the devil is come down to earth having great
wrath because he knows his time is short, and he will make war with
the saints and overcome them, but they will overcome the accuser by
the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, and they love
not their lives unto death (Revelation 12 &13).
Pastor Frank
>
> I would be hesitant to base a doctrine on the belief that the two
> witnesses of Revelation 11 are two churches. Could be, but I don't
> see that as applying to the Bride of Christ which comes down from
> heaven after the Lord returns.
>
the bride of Christ, that's us who are born again in His Spirit, is going up
into heaven to meet Christ. Where does it say we are coming back down again?
Pastor Frank
1Thes:4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever
be with the Lord.
David Matthieu P.P.
>I would be hesitant to base a doctrine on the belief that the two
> witnesses of Revelation 11 are two churches. Could be, but I don't
> see that as applying to the Bride of Christ which comes down from
> heaven after the Lord returns. I don't know but what you are mixing
> references where they don't belong. Anyway, our doctrines must be
> confirmed by many witnesses. When I see more on these things by other
> Bible teachers, perhaps I can see it more clearly if you are correct.
> What I do see is that the devil is come down to earth having great
> wrath because he knows his time is short, and he will make war with
> the saints and overcome them, but they will overcome the accuser by
> the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, and they love
> not their lives unto death (Revelation 12 &13).
To all readers who are unaware of the coming Restoration of the Church
all I can tell you is to be watchful!
Rev: 11:3: And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall PROPHESY a thousand two hundred and threescore
days, clothed in sackcloth.
Please note that the testimony of the two witnesses will
end with the accomplishment of the prophecy of Ezekiel:
"Then said he unto me, PROPHESY unto the wind, PROPHESY,
son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these
slain, that they may live.
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and THE BREATH
CAME INTO THEM, and they lived, and STOOD UP UPON THEIR
FEET".
Rev 11:11: And after three days and an half THE
SPIRIT OF LIFE FROM GOD ENTERED INTO THEM, AND
THEY STOOD UPON THEIR FEET; and great fear
fell upon them which saw them.
The three and a half years of the testimony of the two
witness is exactly the same amount of time when Elijah
was sent to the widow of Israel, "when the heaven was shut up
THREE YEARS AND SIX MONTHS, when great famine was throughout
all the land". For that reason it is written in Rv:11:6:
"These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the
days of their prophecy". This spiritual feeding of the woman
will be a restoration similar to the one that took place
during the time of Elijah who restored the altar of the
Lord that was broken down by the false prophets. During the
famine Elijah fed the widow and the barrel of meal wasted not,
neither did the cruse of oil fail. And it came to pass after
these things as it is reported in the Bible, that the son of
the woman fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there
was no breath left in him. And Elijah cried unto the LORD, and
said, O LORD my God,I pray thee, let this child's soul come into
him again. Did you notice the LORD heard the voice of Elijah;
and the soul of the child came into him again, and he
revived? This is exactly the same sign as the breath of
the prophecy of Ezekiel coming into the dry bones and
the spirit of life from God of the book of Revelation
who shall enter into the dead bodies of the witnesses.
Another important aspect of the prophecy of the two
witnesses, just like Moses leading the Children of Israel
out Egypt, they will force the Multimillionaire Pharaohs
sitting in the pew of the Churches to let God's People go.
The two witnesses will free Christianity from captivity.
Liberated from Pentecostal Egypt and Charismatic Babylon,
the people of God will no longer work day and night to
satiate the monstrous appetite for riches of the Pharaohs
of lying sings and wonders. They will stop working multiple
jobs to pay for the Palaces of Pharaohs and for the diamonds
and gold of the Kings of Babylon. And never again will they
charge their credit cards to build the financial empires of
the Prosperity Gospel Tyrants. In order to confound the kings
of Apostasy who are making merchandise of the people of God,
in Rv 11: 6 we can read that just like Moses liberating the
Children of Israel, the witnesses have power over waters to
turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues,
as often as they will.
Ex:8:1: And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and
say unto him, Thus saith the LORD,
LET MY PEOPLE GO, THAT THEY MAY SERVE ME.
Pastor Frank
>
> I would be hesitant to base a doctrine on the belief that the two
> witnesses of Revelation 11 are two churches. Could be, but I don't
> see that as applying to the Bride of Christ which comes down from
> heaven after the Lord returns.
>
David Matthieu P.P.
videos called "The Toronto Blessing Unmasked" published several years ago by
an Australian Producer Bill Koulaxizellis. So called "Prophets of God",
renown "Charismatic" and Pentecostal Ministers were caught talking to
Satan. The Ministers on those videos have aslo publicly praised the devil in
tongues with the complete assurance that no one would ever understand.
http://www.cephasministry.com/toronto_unmask.html
Check it out folks! You need to absolutely visit this web page of Cephas
Ministry to know what these Charismatic and Pentecostal Ministers are really
doing in their so called healing and anointed Services.
I copied the entire Text from the Cephas Ministry Web Site and pasted it
below for all readers of Christian Usenet to read:
This article deals with a very serious allegation made by a Christian
Brother in Australia. He has uncovered evidence that Kenneth Copeland,
Rodney Howard Browne and many other famous preachers are actually Satanists
posing as pastors. This evidence comes straight from the lips of these men
themselves as by closely analysing their tongues they can be heard calling
upon and praising Satan. I have heard and seen most of Video tape A and can
verify that the report below is true. The way they praise Satan in front of
crowds is by mixing the praise into their tongues.
As unbelievable as this will sound to many, it is by only viewing these
Video's that you can make an accurate judgement. In time I will convert many
of the quotes mentioned below into Wav files so you can hear them for
yourself. (please be patient)
Example 1
Kenneth Copeland while pretending to be speaking in tongues says the words,
"Come take the mark of the beast" as he invites Dennis Bourke to come
forward for ministry.
Example 2
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Tell my brother now take the beast, take
together Satan here, yeah have the mark off from the beast" as he
communicates with Rodney Howard Browne in supposed tongues about a man who
is about to be prayed for by Rodney Howard Browne.
Example 3
Kenneth Copeland asks Satan to tie up the money that is coming in through
the movement. He can be heard saying the words. "Tie my money Satan."
Example 4
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "I bun you Satan our lord tie the money" as
a man is doing a sort of running dance after Rodney Howard Browne lays his
hand on him and tells him to run with the move of God.
Example 5
Rodney Howard Browne says the words, "Hooray for Satan in um `elp us you're
here" while the man is still doing the running dance.
Example 6
Rodney Howard Browne communicating with Satan says the words, "Socoro devil
socori ba ba ba ba in un `elp us."
Example 7
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Yes, yes, yes forwards l'ma ina im, im in
sins" and then he has a good laugh.
Example 8
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Bonshkoshte ba ba bug our devil" while
doing the sign of allegiance to Satan.
Example 9
Kenneth Copeland begins speaking in what is supposed to be tongues by saying
the words, "Yeah I like my devil".
Example 10
Kenneth Copeland waving his left hand and disguisingly doing the sign of
allegiance to Satan while at the same time saying the words, "Yep I'm a
demon".
Example 11
Kenneth Copeland speaking in his supposed tongues language says the words,
"A b . . hole monendo I got a demon".
Example 12
As Rodney Howard Browne works upon the audience getting them into a passive
state of mind, Kenneth Copeland can be heard calling personally upon the
devil to give a demon to the people in the audience. He says the words, "My
devil now give a demon in em" and Rodney Howard Browne says yeah, yeah, in
agreement as Kenneth Copeland is saying those words.
Example 13
A demon speaks out of a lady that Rodney Howard Browne ministers to, says
the words, "Move Satan master" as the lady is manifesting the laughter and
demonic tongues.
Example 14
Rodney Howard Browne says the words, "Our Satan was moving her" referring to
the lady who manifests the laughter and demonic tongues.
Example 15
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "There goes our ba ba, there Saton under"
as Rodney Howard Browne begins to minister to the lady who experiences the
laughter and demonic tongues.
Example 16
Kenneth Copeland disguisingly says the words, "She'll be gone easy" by
saying, "She'll by gone easy" referring to the lady who goes under Satan's
power and manifests the laughter and demonic tongues.
Example 17
Kenneth Copeland while trying to pronounce the word 'faithful" sass the 'f'
word, he says, "F, fa, f . . k" and then quickly begins to speak in tongues
to cover up what he said by making out that it was all tongues.
Example 18
A demon speaks out of someone in the audience who is experiencing the
movement and says the words, "Our Satan's with us" before Kenneth Copeland
pretends to make Rodney Howard Browne slump onto the floor by the power of
the Holy Spirit.
Example 19
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Bind him, I hear thee, my boy, my Satan's
in me" in disguised English just as Rodney Howard Browne is about to fake
the fall pretending that he is being overpowered by the presence of God.
Example 20
Kenneth Copeland disguisingly says the words, "F . . k your mother, the
devil's in me, yes" while pretending to be speaking in tongues, and then
begins to prophecy over Rodney Howard Browne.
Example 21
Kenneth Copeland communicating with Satan says the words "Busundra my Satan"
after he ends prophesying over Rodney Howard Browne.
Example 22
As Rodney Howard Browne is ministering the laughter Kenneth Copeland makes a
statement that shows that these men worship Bacchus, the god of wine. He
says the words, "Don't f.. k me don't take our Bacchus."
Example 23
As Rodney Howard Browne is repeating the words, "have a drink of the new
wine, have a drink of the new wine", Kenneth Copeland can be heard
disguisingly calling upon Satan. He says the words, "Come our Satan".
Example 24
Stacey Carnpbell , one of the leading ladies of the movement gets taken over
by evil spirits and begins channelling.
Example 25
Kenneth Copeland asks Satan to move by jumbling the words that he says,
instead of saying, "move over my beast" he says the words, "Beast move over
my".
Example 26
Mike Evans says the words, "Take over my Satan" when he is being ministered
to by Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard Browne. When he says this Rodney
Howard Browne breaks out in laughter at Mike Evans poor effort in trying to
disguise the word "Satan".
Example 27
Mike Evans continues to communicate and call upon Satan while receiving
ministry for Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard Browne. He savs the words,
"Naughty pa rule my Satan, naughty master" as he is making out to be
speaking in tongues.
Example 28
Kenneth Copeland says some words in tongues that cause Mike Evans to fall
back onto the floor. Then in his next bit of tongues he disguisingly tells
Rodney Howard Browne that it was Satan their master who did it. He says the
words, "Warst our Satan master."
VIDEO TAPE B
Example 29
Dennis Bourke comes forward for ministry when called by Kenneth Copeland to
come and take the mark of the beast. As he is receiving ministry from
Kenneth Copeland he lifts his head up in the air and says the words, "Our
devil beast."
Example 30
Female demonic voice and Dennis Bourke combine to say, "Our Satan's here"
(female voice), "Yes he is" (Dennis Bourke) while Dennis Bourke is
manifesting.
Example 31
Kenneth Copeland quickly says the words, "B.stard master Satan help me I'm a
demon" when pretending to be speaking in tongues.
Example 32
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Olival I'm evil, ardos daughter Satan I
love her" referring to a lady that receives ministry
Example 33
Mike Evans begins his prophecy by saying the words, "Take over my Satan"
just before he puts the microphone next to his mouth to begin to prophecy.
Example 34
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Yes I'm a devil our Satan you're moving in
him" as Mike Evans is prophesying.
Example 35
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Do whatever you want Satan's in us" as
Mike Evans continues to prophesy.
Example 36
When Mike Evans ends his prophesying he asks Satan to move. He hands the
microphone back to Rodney Howard Browne, then takes a few steps back and
says the words, "Yes move our Saton" while trying to make them sound like
tongues.
Example 37
Mike Evans can be heard saying the words, "The devil is here master ?
something" (could be Satan or Bacchus) as Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard
Browne are calling ministers of the gospel to come forward for ministry.
Example 38
A demon speaks out of someone in the audience who is experiencing the
movement and says the words, "Move our devil" or "Move our Satan" just
before Rick Shelton is about to get struck by a spirit that causes him to
lose his memory and behave weirdly.
Example 39
While under the influence of the spirit that is causing him to experience
loss of memory behave weirdly, Rick Shelton can be heard saying the words,
"I worship Satan."
Example 40
Further on into Rick Shelton's manifestation as he is caused to sway back
and forward he says the words, "Oh the devil's here."
Example 41
A demon speaks out of a woman in the audience who is experiencing the
laughter or other manifestation and says the words, "Move devil he's here"
as the invisible spiritual presence in the meeting is moving
Example 42
Joe Jordan says the words, "My Satan's girl, loose his power with us" as a
lady is manifesting.
Example 43
Rodney Howard Browne doing a mantra, which a high pitched screaming sound
that witch doctors make when summoning up demons.
Example 44
Kenneth Copeland Says the words, "Helpe the money p..fta" as Rodney Howard
Browne is ministering to a lady.
Example 45
Kenneth Copeland says the words, "Tell the damn mike yes I'm a devil in us"
as Rodney Howard Browne puts the microphone on the mouth of a lady who is
experiencing the laughter.
Example 46
Mike Evans can be heard saying the words, "Yes our Satan master" faintly in
the background as he raises his right hand in the air in worship of the
presence that is moving in the meeting.
Example 47
Jesse Duplantis says the words, "Take over my Satan you're moving here
Satan" when pretending to be speaking in tongues.
Example 48
Jesse Duplantis again communicates with Satan when pretending to be speaking
in tongues, this time he can be heard saying, "Move our Satan, our Satan
thank you lord".
Example 49
Jesse Duplantis quickly says the words, "Glory be to Satan who's on me,
thank you lord" when Kenneth Copeland tells him to turn his throat loose in
Jesus' name.
Example 50
Jesse Duplantis or one of the bikers from the group that calls itself "The
Tribe of Judah" can be heard saying the words, "I worship Satan."
Example 51
A satanist who is posing as a Christian pastor while he is following Rodney
Howard Browne puts his hand on a lady to minister to her and says the words,
"She ta soro Satan I'm gonna talk for you."
Example 52
Demons who are speaking out of people who are being slain in the spirit say
the words "Move our Satan (male voice) stay inside (female voice)."
Example 53
The other Satanist who is posing as a Christian pastor repeatedly says the
words, "Might be move Satan, might be move Satan, might be move Satan's here
" as he instructs people to lift their hands up in the air before Rodney
Howard Browne ministers to them.
Example 54
A demon speaks out of a lady and says the words, "Our Satan you are talking
master" as Rodney Howard Browne is saying, "Fill, fill" and slaying people
in the spirit.
Example 55
A demon speaks out of a person and says the words, "Satan master dine" as
other demons that are entering into the people cause them to manifest.
Example 56
As a lady is babbling away in demonic tongues, Rodney Howard Browne places
his hand on her, as he lifts his hand off her head she says the words, "All
hail Satan yes."
Example 57
The other Satanist who is posing as a Christian pastor says the words, "My
girl Satan" after the lady on the previous example says, "All hail Satan
yes."
Example 58
As Rodney Howard Browne moves closer to a Satanist who is posing as a
Christian pastor, the microphone that is attached to Rodney Howard Browne's
shirt picks up what this Satanist says, he can be heard saying the words,
"You will move Satan."
Example 59
Rodney Howard. Browne communicates with Satan in his tongues, he says the
words, "Horapasia Satan" as he begins to minister to a man.
Example 60
The same man from the previous example after receiving ministry from Rodney
Howard Browne begins to manifest what is supposed to be the gift of tongues
by saying very fast the words, "I said I love the devil, la, la, la, la
...." He receives a spirit of demonic tongues which Rodney Howard Browne put
into him.
Example 61
Rodney Howard Browne using Christian terms and phrases like, "In the mighty
name of Jesus, I loose the fire ... etc" as he is ministering to a man. When
he finishes ministering to this man he can be heard saying the words, "Come
work our Satan nasty."
This page is still unfinished. I can understand your difficulty in believing
that these above mentioned 'Men of God' would stoop to such blatant acts of
evil. When I have finished my files on these men you will soon see their
Masonic/Occult/New Age memberships and connections. Kenneth Copeland for
example has stated ........
That we do not have a god in us but that we are a God.
"You don't have a God in you. You are one!" (Kenneth Copeland: "The Force of
Love", tape.)
That Adam was God manifest in the flesh.
Kenneth Copeland: "God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to
reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself, and in the Garden of
Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like
God. He was not subordinate to God even. . . . Adam is as much like God as
you could get, just the same as Jesus. . . . Adam, in the Garden of Eden,
was God manifested in the flesh." ("Following the Faith of Abraham I," side
1.)
God is the greatest failure in the Universe
Kenneth Copeland: "I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in
the Bible actually is....The biggest one is God....I mean, He lost His
top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first
woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the Fullness therein; a third
of the angels, at least--that's a big loss, man. . . ("Praise-a-Thon"
program on TBN [April 1988].)
God lives on a mother planet
Kenneth Copeland: "Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west.
Consequently, it must be a planet." ("Spirit, Soul and Body I" [Fort Worth,
TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries. 1985] audiotape #01-0601, side 1.)
Kenneth Copeland: "You don't think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you
don't think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some
other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that's new. Are you
hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy of home. It's a
copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like
His and put us on it." ("Following the Faith of Abraham I" [Fort Worth, TX:
Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989], audiotape #01-3001, side 1.)
The death of Jesus on the Cross did not pay the price for sins
"It wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for
sin..anybody could do that" 'What Satan saw on the day of Pentecost"
"Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic
covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only" "When
he said 'It is finished' on that cross, he was not speaking of the plan of
redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun, there were still three
days and three nights to be gone through." "[Jesus] accepted the sin nature
of Satan in His own Spirit, and at the moment that He did so, He cried 'My
God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'." "He [Jesus] was down in that pit
and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for
Adam's treason... There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the
earth, when the command of God says 'That's enough, loose him and let him go'."
[ From the Cross to the Throne]
.Jesus was raped by homosexual Roman soldiers everyway possible
"Let me tell you something folks. Anybody in here that's ever been sexually
abused, listen to me right now. Listen to me very carefully. The bible's
very careful about the way it says these things. But down there in that
dungeon, Romans, ungodly men, ungodly men, put him (Jesus) to every kind of
abuse that you can think of. There is no sin that Jesus didn't bare. There
is no thing, there is no such thing as a sexual abuse on somebody that Jesus
doesn't know firsthand what it's all about. He's been where you are, I don't
care what you've been through, Jesus has been through it. And everything's
done to him that we we couldn't even speak of."
The Resurrection Truth, audiotape
Anyone who doubts the above please go to Video sound page to listen to some
heresies for yourself or just check out my pages on Kenneth Copeland and
others which are listed on my main page.
author of this page: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8988/index.html
Pastor Frank
news:30rjnaF...@uni-berlin.de...
> "Howard Duck" <hbd...@geusnet.com> wrote in message
> news:p9qfq09ru94sft0ud...@4ax.com...
> >
> > The thing of it is though, David, that all pentecostalism cannot be
> > lumped together as though all were either of God or else of the devil.
> > Many of the older pentecostals are withdrawing from the new
> > pentecostal churches with the strange manifestations, short Word-less
> > sermons, little or no conviction for sin, rock-n-roll type music, etc.
>
> I am going back in history for my readers who do not know the roots of
> Pentecostalism.
> The Los Angeles Times wrote in April 1906:
> New Sect of Fanatics is Breaking Loose
> Wild Scene Last Night on Azusa Street
> Gurgle of Wordless Talk by a Sister
>
> "Breathing strange utterances and mouthing a creed which it would
> seem no sane mortal could understand, the newest religious sect
> has started in Los Angeles. Meetings are held in a tumble-down
> shack on Azusa Street, near San Pedro Street, and devotees of the
> weird doctrine practice the most fanatical rites, preach the wildest
> theories
>
call even the Bible "wild theories" and expect anyone in our pristine
Christian NGs to take them seriously. "Weird doctrine" indeed!!!!! The only
weird ones around here are atheist who invent such "wild theories" to troll
our pristine Christian NGs for "heated answers". See below
Pastor Frank
troll (trol) verb
To post a message in a newsgroup or other online conference in the hopes
that somebody else will consider the original message so outrageous that it
demands a heated reply. A classic example of a troll is to post an article
in favor of torturing cats in a pet lovers' newsgroup.
David Matthieu P.P.
Churches are openly calling Jesus accursed and saying that he became one
with the nature of Satan, and yet they still want their deceived followers
to believe they are men of God:
"Let me tell you something folks. Anybody in here that's
ever been sexually abused, listen to me right now. Listen
to me very carefully. The bible's very careful about the
way it says these things. But down there in that dungeon,
Romans, ungodly men, ungodly men, put him (Jesus) to every
kind of abuse that you can think of. There is no sin that
Jesus didn't bare. There is no thing, there is no such thing
as a sexual abuse on somebody that Jesus doesn't know firsthand
what it's all about. He's been where you are, I don't care
what you've been through, Jesus has been through it. And
everything's done to him that we we couldn't even speak of."
(KENNETH COPELAND-The Resurrection Truth)
"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for
sin...anybody can do that." (Kenneth Copeland, What Satan Saw on the Day of
Pentecost (Kenneth Copeland, Fort Worth: Messages by Kenneth Copeland, n.d.,
audiotape #BCC-19), side 1.)
Jesus is said to have remarked, "It was a sign of Satan that was hanging on
the cross....I accepted, in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light
was turned off." (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the
Throne, side 2.)
Jesus had to "accept the sin nature of Satan." (Kenneth Copeland, What
Happened from the Cross to the Throne, side 2.)
"Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions
of hell" (Kenneth Copeland, Holy Bible: Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition
(Kenneth Copeland, Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1991), 129.)
"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He
allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came
down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody
had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to
suffer." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," 3.)
"How did Jesus then on the cross say, 'My God.' Because God was not His
Father any more. He took upon Himself the nature of Satan. And I'm telling
you Jesus is in the middle of that pit. He's suffering all that there is to
suffer, there is no suffering left . . . apart from Him. His emaciated,
little wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing and the devil thinks
He's got Him destroyed. But, all of a sudden God started talking." (Kenneth
Copeland, Believer's Voice of Victory (television program), TBN, 21 April
1991.)
Jesus at His death became one with Satan. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast,
recorded 12/15/90)
"He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is
by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it
must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature
of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).
"Christ 'became one with the nature of Satan' and was 'born again' in hell"
( Benny Hinn)
"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in
the Bible actually is. Everybody ask you ask "Who's the
biggest failure?" They say "Judas", somebody else will
say "No, I believe it was Adam", well how about the devil.
He's the most consistent failure. But he's not the biggest
in terms of material failure and so forth. The biggest one
in all the Bible is God. What, what, what - don't you turn
that set off - you listen to what. I told you - now you
sit still a minute. You know me well enough to know I
wouldn't, I wouldn't tell something I can't prove from
the Bible." (Kenneth Copeland)
Pastor Frank
>
> While I was at a friend's house, on MSNBC there was a documentary about
> Pentecostalism. They were showing in a crowded church some amazing baptism
> scenes. The convulsions of the devotees were so strong that the help of
> several strong men was needed for their immersion in water. The devotees
> were immediately agitated by more violent trances after the forceful dip.
> Now wildly gesticulating and loudly yelling, getting the uncontrollable
> believers out of the water was evidently a much bigger challenge. Quickly
> one of these helpers covered with his hand the mouth of the "baptized"
> subject to muffle the piercing screams, with the other hand he
energetically
> grabbed the wet torso and started to pull with all his strength. Another
man
> quickly held the hip area, and a third man vigorously seized the feet of
the
> wildly convulsing subject. The whole restraining maneuver and pulling out
of
> the water only took a few seconds. Without losing any time the well
trained
> ''baptism'' crew quickly proceeded in removing their anointed cargo out of
> the view of the assembly. Only couple Minutes later the removal crew was
> back in the sanctuary ready to continue performing their arduous task to
> quickly seize and remove all deceived believers that would receive the
> baptism of the Beast.
> http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm
>
church of Christ into disrepute. In all my years looking any sign of
extreme behaviour approved of by the church, I never saw nor heard even
anything resembling a "holy roller" despite my actively looking for one, let
along anything remotely resembling the above chaotic scene.
> Even though the leaders of these supernatural movements had specially
> trained crews to keep under control these violent scenes of baptism, yet
it
> is still patent that these are genuine cases of demonic possessions. Some
> people do not comprehend my position on this matter, I have absolutely no
> problem with the established fact that the Pentecostal and Charismatic do
> worship demonic spirits. I understand this is their personal choice and
they
> certainly have the right to worship as many legions of laughing, barking,
> roaring spirits of devils as they want. As a matter of fact I have no
> objection at all that for almost a century they have been worshipping the
> prince of darkness in anointing and in deceit. The only problem that I
have
> is this, like the Voodoo adepts why can't they clearly say they worship
the
> Beast? Where ever Voodoo is practiced, it is unequivocally stated that
this
> is a worship of the forces rkness. Refusing to admit the truth, why do
> Pentecostal and Charismatic devotees have to blaspheme, shamelessly
calling
> their demonic spirits of lying signs and wonders Holy Spirit of God?
> Refusing to forsake the Beast, why are they associating the name of the
Lord
> Jesus Christ to their Sorcery? Entirely consecrated to the worship of the
> Beast, why do their false prophets have to threaten faithful believers of
> Jesus Christ calling them Accusers of the Brethren?
>
This is all hog wash, for Christian baptism is unto repentance, and a
repentant spirit does not cavort nor in any way behave in the manner you
describe. I'm quite sure you are an atheist, who made this all up to
ridicule Christ and His followers, and to troll our pristine Christian NGs,
didn't you? See if the below fits you
Pastor Frank
>
> Yes. I had seen all of these clips (or at least parts of all). They
> are disgusting, and Christians should be aware of the apostasy of the
> church.
>
of Satan's minions are, who say they are Christians but do the opposite from
what Christ preached.
I hope, though, that we can find where truth lies, where the
> Bible is extolled and preached with a true anointing of the Holy
> Spirit.
>
The Bible is only a reference. Who needs to be preached is Jesus Christ,
whose words are deliberately ignored by many who claim to be saved by His
blood, not by following His commandments.
Mainstream churches have become so "liberalized" that they
> produce nothing but a social gospel:
>
Christ was not above preaching a social gospel when needed, and we who
would rather wave our arms shouting hallelujah and praise the Lord to
earsplitting music, instead of paying attention to the screams of the
tortured, the moans of the injured and dying and the wails of the bereaved,
and worry only about getting our shoes muddy clambering over the fresh
mounts of mass graves, will find ourselves in hell instead of heaven. See
below
Pastor Frank
CHRIST'S SOCIAL GOSPEL
Jesus in Mat:25:31-46: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all
the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.
And before him shall be gathered all nations, and he shall separate them one
from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall
set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of
my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world, for I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat, I was thirsty, and ye
gave me drink, I was a stranger, and ye took me in, naked, and ye clothed
me. I was sick, and ye visited me, I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an
hungered, and fed thee? Or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee
a stranger, and took thee in? Or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we
thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and
say unto them: Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one
of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand: Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, for I
was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat, I was thirsty, and ye gave me no
drink, I was a stranger, and ye took me not in, naked and ye clothed me not,
sick and in prison and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an
hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and
did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying: Verily I say
unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it
not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the
righteous into life eternal.
Jam 1:26-7 RSVA If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle
his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain. Religion
that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit
orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from
the world.
Pastor Frank
>
> Read it Folks! The False prophets of the Charismatic and Pentecostal
> Churches are openly calling Jesus accursed and saying that he became one
> with the nature of Satan, and yet they still want their deceived
followers
> to believe they are men of God:
>
on the cross of Calvary. That is what redemption is all about. Now take you
pope and go wailing in RCC NGs. You will get no followers here in our
pristine Christian NGs.
Pastor Frank
2Cor:5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old
things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
David Matthieu P.P.
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1102224395.JHHNCtpGr3A0Wv9oMZ2h3Q@teranews...
>>
> He became sin instead of us, "accursed". Jesus suffered our punishment
> on the cross of Calvary. That is what redemption is all about. Now take
> you
> pope and go wailing in RCC NGs. You will get no followers here in our
> pristine Christian NGs.
>
> Pastor Frank
TBN's Promise: Send Money and See Riches
By William Lobdell Los Angeles Times Times Staff Writer
Pastor Paul Crouch calls it "God's economy of giving," and here is how
it works:
People who donate to Crouch's Trinity Broadcasting Network will reap
financial blessings from a grateful God. The more they give TBN, the
more he will give them.
Being broke or in debt is no excuse not to write a check. In fact,
it's an ideal opportunity. For God is especially generous to those who
give when they can least afford it.
"He'll give you thousands, hundreds of thousands," Crouch told his
viewers during a telethon last November. "He'll give millions and
billions of dollars."
Preachers who pass the hat while praising the Lord have long been the
stuff of ridicule in film and fiction. But for Crouch and his Orange
County-based television ministry, God's economy of giving is no
laughing matter. It brings a rich bounty, year after year.
Crouch has used a doctrine called the "prosperity gospel" to
underwrite a worldwide broadcasting network and a life of luxury for
himself and his family.
For at least a century, preachers have plied the notion that dropping
money in the collection plate will bring blessings from God - material
as well as spiritual. But Crouch, through inspired salesmanship and
advanced telecommunications technology, has converted this timeworn
creed into a potent financial engine.
TBN collects more than $120 million a year from viewers of its
Christian programming - more than any other TV ministry. Those
donations have fueled its rise from a rented studio in Santa Ana to a
global broadcasting system whose programs appear on thousands of
channels - via satellite, cable and over-the-air broadcasts - in a
dozen languages.
The network's donors also help fund generous salaries for Crouch
($403,700 a year) and his wife, Jan ($361,000), and an array of perks,
including a TBN-owned jet and 30 homes across the country, among them
a pair of Newport Beach mansions and a ranch in Texas.
The prosperity gospel is rooted in the idea that God wants Christians
to prosper and that believers have the right to ask him for financial
gifts. TBN has woven this notion into its round-the-clock programming
as well as the thousands of fund-raising letters it mails every day.
During one telethon, Crouch, 70, told viewers that if they did their
part to advance the Kingdom of God - such as by donating money to TBN
- they should not be shy about asking God for a reward.
"If my heart really, honestly desires a nice Cadillac . would there be
something terribly wrong with me saying, 'Lord, it is the desire of my
heart to have a nice car . and I'll use it for your glory?' " Crouch
asked. "I think I could do that and in time, as I walked in obedience
with God, I believe I'd have it."
Other preachers who appear on the network offer variations on the
theme that God appreciates wealth and likes to share it. One of them,
John Avanzini, once told viewers that Jesus, despite his humble image,
was a man of means.
"John 19 tells us that Jesus wore designer clothes," Avanzini said,
referring to the purple robe that Christ's tormentors wrapped around
him before the Crucifixion. "I mean, you didn't get the stuff he wore
off the rack.. No, this was custom stuff. It was the kind of garment
that kings and rich merchants wore."
TBN viewers are told that if they don't reap a windfall despite their
donations, they must be doing something to "block God's blessing" -
most likely, not giving enough.
Crouch has particularly stern words for those who are not giving at
all.
"If you have been healed or saved or blessed through TBN and have not
contributed . you are robbing God and will lose your reward in
heaven," he said during a 1997 telecast.
A central element of the prosperity gospel is that no one is too poor
or too indebted to donate. Bishop Clarence McClendon, a preacher whose
show "Take It By Force" appears on TBN, told viewers in March that God
had asked him to deliver a message to those in financial difficulty:
They should "sow a seed" by using their credit cards to make
donations. In return, the Lord would see to it that the balances would
be paid off within 30 days.
"Get Jesus on that credit card!" McClendon said.
Ask and Receive
Proponents of the prosperity gospel - also known as the "name it and
claim it" gospel and the "health and wealth" gospel - point to a verse
in the Hebrew Scriptures in which the Lord warns the faithful not to
"rob" him by withholding their tithes:
" 'Test me in this,' says the Lord Almighty, 'and see if I will not
throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that
you will not have room enough for it.' "
E.W. Kenyon, an evangelical pastor in the first half of the 20th
century, was an early and influential advocate of the idea that God
would grant material wishes.
Kenyon wrote about the "power of faith" to bring health and wealth. He
depicted an Almighty who not only protected his followers and forgave
their sins, but handed out gifts if asked. The important thing was to
ask.
Kenyon's ideas inspired what came to be known as the Word of Faith
movement. Many of the phrases Kenyon coined - such as "What I confess,
I possess" - are still used by evangelists.
After Kenyon's death in 1948, other pastors used aspects of his
teachings to draw an even more emphatic connection between piety and
prosperity. Pentecostalists such as Oral Roberts were particularly
ardent in espousing this doctrine.
In the 1960s, Pastor Kenneth Hagin, often described as the father of
the Word of Faith movement, raised the profile of the prosperity
gospel still further, promoting it on television and in books with
titles such as "Godliness Is Profitable" and "How to Write Your Own
Ticket with God."
Hagin preached a four-part formula that he said he received in a
vision from Jesus: Say it. Do it. Receive it. Tell it.
First, believers must ask God for what they want. Next, they must
demonstrate their faith through donations. Then they will tap into the
"powerhouse of heaven" and receive their gifts. Finally, they must
spread the news.
Most of today's leading televangelists preach some version of this
creed.
Paul and Jan Crouch were brought up in the Assemblies of God, a
Pentecostal denomination where the prosperity gospel flourishes. After
working in ministries in South Dakota and Michigan, the couple moved
to Southern California in 1961 to run an Assemblies of God TV
production facility in Burbank.
They launched their own network in 1973. After two nights on the air
on KBSA-TV Channel 46 in Santa Ana, they were broke. So the next
night, they staged a telethon.
The phones hardly rang. Then Paul Crouch hit on an idea, he recalled
in his autobiography, "Hello World!" He told Jan to announce on the
air that an anonymous donor had promised to give $20,000 - on
condition that viewers pledge the same amount that night.
The anonymous donor was Crouch, and the $20,000 was money the couple
had already lent the network. If viewers came through with $20,000,
they would forgo repayment of the loan.
By evening's end, viewers had phoned in $30,000 in pledges, enough to
keep TBN on the air.
"Without really realizing it at the time, I had put into motion one of
God's most powerful laws - the law of giving and receiving, sowing and
reaping," Crouch wrote. "Thirty-, 60- and 100-fold blessing is,
indeed, a glorious truth and blessing for those who will simply obey
the word of the Lord!"
The prosperity gospel became the foundation of TBN fundraising. The
Crouches and TBN personalities such as faith healer Benny Hinn present
the doctrine with passion and a flair for the dramatic.
During fundraising "Praise-a-thons," the Crouches read testimonials
from donors whose debts supposedly were miraculously forgiven - or who
inexplicably received checks in the mail. They pray over donors'
pledge cards.
In 2000, TBN televangelists told viewers that those who promised
$2,000 would get the money back before the end of the year - and would
find that their debts had been canceled. Later, donors were invited to
send in loan statements and other debt paperwork. The documents were
burned on a stone altar.
During another pitch, Crouch read on camera a letter he said was from
a financially strapped viewer who had pledged $4,000.
According to Crouch, the donor wrote: "Within 15 minutes of that time,
I received a check in the U.S. mail in the amount of $5,496.70. No
explanation.. I know it's not an income tax return. I don't make
enough money to file returns."
That year, in a fundraising letter to the network's "prayer partners,"
Crouch wrote: "Praise the Lord, the reports of awesome miracles of
debts canceled and God's people coming out of debt continue to come
in. God's economy of giving really works!"
What Windfall?
Most mainstream theologians and pastors say the prosperity gospel is
at best a doctrinal error and at worst a con game. They point out that
Jesus and his disciples abandoned their possessions in order to live a
spiritually rich life.
"It is difficult to fathom how anyone familiar with the abundance of
biblical teaching about the 'deceitfulness of riches' could have
devised the prosperity gospel," said William Martin, a sociology
professor at Rice University and author of a biography of Billy
Graham.
"While the Bible does not condemn all wealth, it surely points to its
dangers in numerous passages."
Critics of TBN say that the promise of financial miracles - besides
being a distraction from the core principles of Christianity - can
cause real harm.
Ole E. Anthony, founder of the Trinity Foundation in Dallas, a
televangelist watchdog, said he knew people who had given the last of
their savings to TV preachers, hoping for a windfall that never came.
"The people on TBN are living the lifestyle of fabulous wealth on the
backs of the poorest and most desperate people in our society,"
Anthony said. "People have lost their faith in God because they
believe they weren't worthy after not receiving their financial
blessing."
Thomas D. Horne, of Williford, Ark., a disabled Vietnam-era veteran,
said that in 1994 he was swept away by the rhetoric of TBN pastors and
donated about $6,000 in disability benefits.
Time went by and he did not receive the promised surfeit of money.
Last year, he found out that TBN had purchased a Newport Beach mansion
overlooking the Pacific. He wrote to the network, asking for his money
back.
"I want to recoup my hard-earned disability money I sent to these
despicable people," said Horne. He said he has received no reply.
Philip McPeake is another donor for whom God's economy of giving did
not deliver. Out of work and out of luck in November 1998, McPeake
heard the Rev. R.W. Schambach make an impassioned plea for donations
on TBN's Kansas City television station, KTAJ.
Schambach promised that if viewers sent $200 as a down payment on a
$2,000 pledge, God would give them the rest within 90 days - with a
bonus to follow.
McPeake sent in his money and waited for his luck to change. When it
didn't, he complained to the Missouri state attorney general's office
and the Federal Communications Commission (news - web sites). TBN
refunded his donation.
Carl Geisendorfer, who runs a low-power Christian television station
in Quincy, Ill., offered TBN programming for 19 years - until, he
said, he grew disgusted by the televangelists' financial appeals.
He said he pulled TBN off the air in 2002 after watching a preacher
tell viewers that they should pledge $2,000 - even if they didn't have
it - in order to receive a financial miracle from God.
"I should have canceled TBN several years earlier, but I thought Paul
Crouch would finally see the light on how foolish and prideful that
false gospel is," said Geisendorfer, president of Believer's
Broadcasting Corp., a small media group. "I'm sorry I waited as long
as I did."
Geisendorfer said donations to his station dropped 25% after he
dropped TBN's programs. He said Paul Crouch called him and, during a
90-minute conversation, admitted to struggling over how far to go in
promising financial rewards to donors.
"He said, 'What's the difference if some believe it or not. It works
for many people. Why not?' " Geisendorfer wrote in a newsletter sent
to station supporters last year. He quoted Crouch as saying: "The
money comes in and the world is being reached by the Gospel."
Crouch declined to be interviewed for this article. His son, Paul
Crouch Jr., a TBN executive, said critics of the prosperity gospel
overlook the fact that the network has used viewers' contributions to
bring God's word to millions of people.
He said it was unfortunate that "the prosperity gospel is a lightning
rod for the Body of Christ. It's not what drives TBN."
If TBN was interested only in money, the younger Crouch said, it would
sell advertisements instead of funding its operations primarily with
viewers' contributions.
"We could double our money tomorrow," he said.
He added that appeals for money make up a small part of TBN
programming and are prominent mainly during TBN's twice-yearly,
weeklong "Praise-a-thons."
Those are the times when Rick Johnston, a retired pastor who lives
near Flagstaff, Ariz., swings into action.
Johnston, 56, organizes groups of like-minded Christians to try to jam
TBN's phone lines during "Praise-a-thons." The strategy is to stay on
the line as long as possible offering phony pledges.
"I feel like a little fly trying to knock down Goliath," Johnston
said. "But if I can stop somebody from being robbed of $100, I'm going
to do it. There are worse things in life I could be guilty of doing."
Not all TBN donors are looking for a financial payback. Many say they
are more interested in the promise of salvation and in helping spread
the message of Jesus.
Jeanne Fish, 87, a widow who lives in a Tustin apartment, said she
took solace from TBN when her husband died nearly 20 years ago and has
been a loyal viewer ever since.
"I get so much out of it," she said. "It's almost like getting a
theology degree. It's kind of hard to turn off, in fact."
Loyal viewers are dumbfounded that TBN generates controversy within
the evangelical community.
"I'm just so amazed and shocked that so many people don't like [TBN]
in the Christian world," said Arthur Robbins, an artist who lives near
Santa Cruz. "It's a huge undertaking to promote the Gospel worldwide,
and they're doing it."
On the air, Paul Crouch responds to criticism of the prosperity gospel
by invoking Satan.
"If the devil can keep all of us Christians poor, we won't have any
disposable income to build Christian television stations," Crouch said
once.
Michael Giuliano, an expert in televangelism at Westmont College in
Santa Barbara, said this is an effective strategy.
"It's very, very powerful," he said. "In a world of uncertainty, you
know who the good guys in the white hats are and who the guys in the
black hats are. And giving money to TBN is a tangible way to join the
fight for the good guys."
`Get Jesus on that credit card!'
Pastor Paul Crouch and other evangelists appearing on Trinity
Broadcasting Network tell viewers that God will reward them many times
over for their donations. Examples:
Paul Crouch:
'God spoke to me clearly and said, "Did I give my son Jesus on the
cross expecting nothing in return?" God bankrupted heaven and gave the
best gift he could give.. You can bring God a gift fully expecting
something in return. Get to the phone!'
'Have you got something that you have been praying about 10, 15, 20
years? You have been praying for it and haven't gotten it.. It could
be that you haven't gotten it because you are a tightwad and you
haven't given your 10%.'
'People ask me sometimes, "I have been asking from God and not
receiving anything." I have to ask them some hard questions: Are you
giving anything?'
Pastor Rod Parsley:
'You're on the brink of a miracle. Go to the phone and give $1,000,
$5,000, $10,000 and $1 million. Go to the phone.. God has a miracle
waiting on your response.'
'God gave his best at Calvary. He told me, "Don't you dare come before
me if you don't give your best!" '
'To reap a perpetual harvest you need to sow a perpetual seed. I got a
need for seed.'
Bishop Clarence McClendon:
'God spoke to me that there are 1,000 people that will give no less
than $100, I got this word! Get up! Get up! Get up! Go to the
phone..The spirit of God promised me that he would bless your seed! Go
to the phone right now! If you're sowing $1,000, do it now! If you're
sowing $100, do it now!'
'Some of you are wrestling with debt that you cannot pay off. God told
me this morning to tell you to . sow a seed on the credit card that
you want God to pay off.. Get Jesus on that credit card! Make a pledge
on that credit card!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pastor Frank
You seem to have done a lot of research concerning Evangelist's methods
of getting the cash, but to what purpose? Are you saying no one should give
anything to support the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ? Or are you
just jealous of the success of some in the cash collecting business and your
lack of both?
You must remember that we all have free will, and those giving are
giving because they want to, not because they have to. As for siren songs,
the commercial world is full of them, I.e. eat my food, it's fun, never mind
it makes you fat, sick and ugly. Or the converse, rather than spend your
cash on fattening food, wear my clothes and/or perfume and you will be slim
and popular, etc. etc. The evangelist just sells hope, and the odds are
better than the slots, for the result is all a matter of perception. To the
lonely and old a visit from a son or daughter now becomes a gift from God,
and the source of great happiness and joy, instead of the usual sour
greeting: I hate you for not visiting me more often. Such ordinary
occurrences now become miracles, generous gifts of God and tokens of His
great love.
It may surprise you, that this change of perception is worth a great
deal of money to a great many people and all your envious and jealous
sniping won't change that.
Pastor Frank
2Cor:12:11: I am become a fool in glorying
Pastor Frank
"David Matthieu P.P." <johnrev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31gtksF...@individual.net...
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
waters, caused reformation you might say, point is, 'two' is not limited to
only two people, olive treees, or whatever.
"David Matthieu P.P." <johnrev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3131jeF...@uni-berlin.de...