beginner
Ben Franklyn
starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best for a
beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
Thanks in advance
Ben
Dylan Parry
That depends. What do you want to program for? The Internet? Programs for
your home computer? Depending on what you want to do, there are various
languages that are suitable for the task.
--
Dylan Parry
http://www.webpageworkshop.co.uk
Web Tutorials & Reference Guides
Arto V. Viitanen
Ben> I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having
Ben> trouble starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best
Ben> for a beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
Ben> start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
Since you are asking this in several Linux groups also, I suggest Python. Its
syntax is a little different to other languages. However once you have
learned it, you (almost automatically) write good looking programs on other
languages also. Python is interpreter/compiler, that is you can write small
Python programs directly to the interpreter, but it compiles the programs to
internal format, so it sees syntax errors before anything nasty happens.
As I said, since it seems you are using Linux, you might already have Python.
Try:
$ python
(Lots of stuff printed)
>> print "Hello world!"
Check www.python.org for more information.
--
Arto V. Viitanen a...@cs.uta.fi
University of Tampere, Department of Computer and Information Sciences
Tampere, Finland http://www.cs.uta.fi/~av/
Ben There
news:CDCta.10$sH6....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Frankly, Ben; (ar-ar!) you'll be better responded via addressing -fewer-
groups at one time, but that's JMHO! Speaking of JMHO; start with "DOS",
which stands for Dirty Operating System! (You asked from a beginners'
standpoint, right?).
How about this?: One million words compiled into two!:
"Cold Fusion".
Look it up.
*bt.
Jeffrey Silverman
Learn Java and/or C++.
Everything else is easy after that.
-Jeff S.
John
I recommend C++
http://oopweb.com/CPP/Documents/CPPHOWTO/Volume/C++Programming-HOWTO.html
--
John
----------------------------
Remove 'NOSPAM' to email me.
Peter Kootsookos
Na. He should learn machine code and have to punch it in via switches
on the front of the computer.
EVERYTHING else is easy after that.
Ciao,
Peter K.
Dylan Parry
>> Learn Java and/or C++.
>>
>> Everything else is easy after that.
>
> Na. He should learn machine code and have to punch it in via switches
> on the front of the computer.
Don't be silly. If anything he should be punching the ones and zeros into
strips of paper and then feeding them through the machine :)
> EVERYTHING else is easy after that.
Actually, one of the first things I did learn regarding programming _was_
assembler and everything after that was *incredibly* difficult!!
Prof
of Windows until recently but is widely available on the web with other
similar languages like GWbasic. These are programming languages that run in
DOS windows and you can do quite a lot with them. You can find tutorial son
the web for just about any language but some are harder to learn from
tutorials and a class would be the best way to go unless you learn things
more easily than most. Of the languages for jobs Visual Basic, Java and C++
seem to be the hottest ones and Visual Basic is supposed to be the easiest
of these but I know I have tried from books and tutorials and feel I would
need to take a class. You can get compilers for Qbasic as shareware or if
you are lucky free. I found an older version of Visual Basic which can
compile Qbasic programs. It was Visual Basic 3 and it is pretty much of a
DOS environment but it compiled small programs that I wrote in Qbasic. I
found a verson of C++ that has a free compiler called developmental C++.
For newer versions of Visual Basic you have to pay some bucks but you can
save if you have a connection to a University as I was able to get the
Educational special on Visual Basic that is the program with compiler and
libraries for a hundred bucks which would normally cost three hundred.
There are many other programming languages out there like Python which is
free because it was abandoned, Fox Pro if you are interested in data bases
as it is the best for that, and older programs like Fortran, C, and Assmebly
language which is a low level language meaning it is close to machine
language. Assembly is hard but it has the advangage of creating very fast
programs and you learn a lot about the computer from just studying it, even
if you never write a program it is fascinating reading. Hackers and Crackers
use it to break into games and other places they shouldn't be.
Gandalf Parker
@twister.nyc.rr.com:
<short answer>
BASIC.
BECAUSE you asked this question Id have to say that the answer is BASIC.
Thats what its designed for. It will let you program enough to feel a
sense of satisfaction and decide if you like to program or not.
<longer answer>
There is no best. Not in anything. There is only pros and cons. Compare
your question to any other subject you already know. What should be my
first.... car? dog? sport? Whatever it is, your mind will probably move
along the line of a bunch of questions you would ask to narrow the
choices.
Same here. There are langauges that are better if you plan to have fun,
or if you plan to make money, or distribute, or do graphics, or do
databases, or do web, internet, robotics, networking, ibm type computers,
unix type computers. Do you want to be a system admin? or a games
programmer? Or program the new applicances?
But IMHO, based on "interested in learning programming" and "However I am
having trouble starting" I would say have fun with BASIC for awhile. To
start directly with more "serious" or "commercial" languages is to take a
chance on blowing yourself competely off of the subject. At the risk of
becoming a barbecue in all these groups you crossposted to Id comment
that its an exceptional few programmers that became programmers without
starting in a fun language first (then refusing to acknowledge it later
:)
And yes folks, I see the linux in the groups. Basic is available for
linux under the same GNU license as everything else. Multiple flavors of
it. It was even part of the install disks I got.
Gandalf Parker
Nils Goesche
> "Ben Franklyn" <wel_m...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:CDCta.10$sH6.36183
> @twister.nyc.rr.com:
>
> > I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having
> > trouble starting, I need advice as to which language would be the
> > best for a beginner to start with and where I may find the tools
> > needed to start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>
> <short answer>
> BASIC.
> BECAUSE you asked this question Id have to say that the answer is BASIC.
> Thats what its designed for. It will let you program enough to feel a
> sense of satisfaction and decide if you like to program or not.
>
> <longer answer>
But remember Edsger Dijkstra's words:
# It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to
# students that have had prior exposure to BASIC; as potential
# programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.
There is some truth to this. Unfortunately, I do not have the
slightest idea what a good beginner's language might be. Only that
BASIC is not it ;-)
Regards,
--
Nils Gösche
"Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."
PGP key ID 0x0655CFA0
Mykroft Holmes IV
"Prof" <mf...@winco.net> wrote in message
news:b9csn7$2u6b$1...@news3.infoave.net...
> The easiest program language to learn is Qbasic which come with most
verions
> of Windows until recently but is widely available on the web with other
> similar languages like GWbasic.
Python is much simpler. Easy syntax, closer to english, sane rules, no brain
damage. Ruby is supposedly excellent for this too and Pascal's not bad.
> These are programming languages that run in
> DOS windows and you can do quite a lot with them. You can find tutorial
son
> the web for just about any language but some are harder to learn from
> tutorials and a class would be the best way to go unless you learn things
> more easily than most. Of the languages for jobs Visual Basic, Java and
C++
> seem to be the hottest ones and Visual Basic is supposed to be the easiest
> of these but I know I have tried from books and tutorials and feel I would
> need to take a class. You can get compilers for Qbasic as shareware or if
> you are lucky free. I found an older version of Visual Basic which can
> compile Qbasic programs. It was Visual Basic 3 and it is pretty much of a
> DOS environment but it compiled small programs that I wrote in Qbasic. I
> found a verson of C++ that has a free compiler called developmental C++.
> For newer versions of Visual Basic you have to pay some bucks but you can
> save if you have a connection to a University as I was able to get the
> Educational special on Visual Basic that is the program with compiler and
> libraries for a hundred bucks which would normally cost three hundred.
> There are many other programming languages out there like Python which is
> free because it was abandoned,
Python isn't abandoned, it's GPL. Guido is developing it full-time these
days. VB isn't all that bad for starters, but encourages sloppy programming,
QBasic is simply painful.
>Fox Pro if you are interested in data bases
> as it is the best for that,
Fox Pro is dead and has been for years, SQL and MS Access are king here,
Access for low-end stuff an SQL for anything real.
>and older programs like Fortran, C, and Assmebly
> language which is a low level language meaning it is close to machine
> language. Assembly is hard but it has the advangage of creating very fast
> programs and you learn a lot about the computer from just studying it,
even
> if you never write a program it is fascinating reading. Hackers and
Crackers
> use it to break into games and other places they shouldn't be.
C is very much alive, as is Assembly in embedded systems. Fortran has it's
uses, but is much more rare.
Adam
Gandalf Parker
Well Perl is a nice mix between Basic and C. Python is considered good.
But Id still have to ask...
Your a good programmer? You didnt start with Basic?
From my experience hiring programmers Ive found that those who started
directly in "better" languages were rather close-minded. And it would
appear that while half the people who try BASIC tend to keep programing
in something, those who start at a higher level seemed to have a much
smaller percentage who continue.
So again, Id have to say that it depends on why you want to learn a
programming language. If its to write good code and be marketable then
BASIC probably isnt it. If its to find out if you think programming is
fun, I think it beats out many that are usually recommended.
IMHO
Gandalf Parker
-- I knew Internet before it was spelled W W W
Tom Lake
>
> # It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to
> # students that have had prior exposure to BASIC; as potential
> # programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.
>
> There is some truth to this. Unfortunately, I do not have the
> slightest idea what a good beginner's language might be. Only that
> BASIC is not it ;-)
Remember, however, that quite was in the light of his letter to the
Communications of the ACM, GOTO Considered Harmful. The BASIC of Dijkstra's
day had none of the more modern conveniences, such as block
if-then-else-endif, DO...LOOP, SELECT CASE, WHEN EXCEPTION IN..., etc. The
BASICs of today have all the structured constructs ol' Eddie could have
wished for!
Tom Lake
Calvin Crumrine
view of his accomplishments which argue that he knew quite a bit, maybe
what it points out is how poorly he could teach.
In any case, my opinion is that the only things which prevent students
from learning are poor teachers, the students themselves, and brain
damage. Since I've never heard it seriously proposed that exposure to
BASIC causes brain damage Dijkstra's premise devolves into the
suggestion that either he is a poor teacher (and considers all other
teachers equally poor) or that there is some 'selection' mechanism at
work that causes poor students to take BASIC and good students not to do
so. Since I don't believe the latter I'm forced to believe the former.
Gandalf Parker
news:vblkmgt...@corp.supernews.com:
> I'm afraid that all this points out is how little Dijkstra knows. Or, in
> view of his accomplishments which argue that he knew quite a bit, maybe
> what it points out is how poorly he could teach.
Personally Im more a teacher than a doer. Im well known for "translating
tech into english". When Im getting razzed I often hear something along the
line of the famous "Those that can, do. And those that cant, teach".
I reply "that doesnt bother me much since from that Ive seen...
those that can, cant teach".
If Im feeling really irittated and know something about my razzer I might
say that the modern equivalent would be "Those that can, tech. And those
that cant, consult" (some of my best friends are consultants and they think
its funny so dont flame me)
Gandalf Parker
-- The growth of the Internet has less in common with engineering, planning
and design; and more in common with chaos theory, big bang expanding
universe, and the theory of evolution. - Gandalf Parker
Paul O. BARTLETT
On Thu, 8 May 2003, Mykroft Holmes IV wrote:
> QBasic is simply painful.
Not necessarily within its problem space. I have some programs I
wrote in QBasic/QuickBasic for which some languages might have been
simply overkill (such as Visual Basic in a Windblows environment -- I
have programmed in VB). QBasic/QB allow one to use good programming
technique: the constructs are there. My experience, going back to the
punch card days, is that no one language is best for every task. For
the tasks I have for personal use, QBasic/QB are just fine.
> C is very much alive, as is Assembly in embedded systems. Fortran has it's
> uses, but is much more rare.
Fortran rare? That's news to me. There are libraries of Fortran
routines going back forty years that are still in yeoman service for
engineers. I would say that in the real world, Fortran is alive and
well (at lest the last time I checked).
--
Paul Bartlett
bartlett at smart.net
PGP key info in message headers
Joey Joe Joe
interperatively), i would say that for me this was a bad way to go as
now when i try to learn a new lanuage, i can't, i just keep relating
it back to BASIC, and therefore can't really get into it.
I just developed bad techniques from BASIC and can't shake them,
That said, if i could start again and have a fresh head, i would start
with C/C++
I have absolutley no OOP concept at all,
That said I have the same sort of concept when it come to
linux/windows: learnt windows first (whatever ther is to learn), and
now find it difficult to learn linux. I realyy have to chuck out
weindows altogether, and start afresh
just my two cents
Gandalf Parker
news:a65409b.03051...@posting.google.com:
> I just developed bad techniques from BASIC and can't shake them,
> That said, if i could start again and have a fresh head, i would start
> with C/C++
> I have absolutley no OOP concept at all,
Well I must admit that I have no OOP concept either. But I havent missed
it all that much. I still use Basic for alot of my sys_admin stuff. And I
have no problem troubleshooting Perl, C, Java, Python, various languages
even if couldnt write in them from scratch.
The question would be, did Basic make us OOP retarded, or would we have
been anyway and starting in C would have blown us off. Id say of the
people who start with BASIC, 10% give up, 20% get stuck there, and 70%
move on succesfully. Now with C-starters is it 30% give up and 70% move
on? No win there. Actually Im not sure Id give it a 70% success for
starting in C, maybe less than that.
> That said I have the same sort of concept when it come to
> linux/windows: learnt windows first (whatever ther is to learn), and
> now find it difficult to learn linux. I realyy have to chuck out
> weindows altogether, and start afresh
Hmmm I guess I can see that. The same logic that my grandpa used when he
said everyone should learn to drive on a shift. Might be right.
I did learn DOS extensively before Windows so I find the unix/linux
environment quite comfortable.
Gandalf Parker
-- Did you know that 9 out of 10 Windows users cant find their ASCII with
both hands? - Gandalf Parker
Floris van Sandwijk
Parker <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> Well I must admit that I have no OOP concept either. But I havent missed
> it all that much. I still use Basic for alot of my sys_admin stuff. And I
> have no problem troubleshooting Perl, C, Java, Python, various languages
> even if couldnt write in them from scratch.
>
> The question would be, did Basic make us OOP retarded, or would we have
> been anyway and starting in C would have blown us off. Id say of the
> people who start with BASIC, 10% give up, 20% get stuck there, and 70%
> move on succesfully. Now with C-starters is it 30% give up and 70% move
> on? No win there. Actually Im not sure Id give it a 70% success for
> starting in C, maybe less than that.
>
Why don't you take a look at REALbasic: www.realbasic.com. This is
originally a Macintosh program, but recently a Windows version came out.
It is OOP, it is compiled and it's syntax is quite similar to VB.
Floris
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> I just developed bad techniques from BASIC and can't shake them,
When I took a Pascal course in high school, it revolutionised the way
I wrote BASIC. I used BASIC and later QBasic for years, because the
other languages I studied (COBOL, Fortran, C++, ...) were all worse,
except for Inform, which is only good for certain very specific
applications. It wasn't until I picked up Emacs that I discovered
lisp, which was better than BASIC. At that point my usage of BASIC
dwindled. These days I do almost all of my programming in Perl and
elisp. I intend to learn Scheme at some point, and I'm looking
forward to Perl6 with eagerness.
> That said, if i could start again and have a fresh head, i would
> start with C/C++
C and C++ are going to be the COBOL or the assembly language of the
next generation -- many programmers will have to know them, because so
much legacy code is written in them, but twenty years from now nobody
will be picking them for new projects (except for inherently very
low-level applications, like bootloaders and kernels and stuff).
Everything's going over to Very High Level Languages (Perl, Python,
Ruby, PHP, and so forth). Then we can *finally* be rid of segfaults
and buffer overruns. And if we can get the creators of the VHLL tools
(compilers, interpreters, whatever) to stop reference counting and do
real garbage collection, we can get rid of memory leaks too.
> I have absolutley no OOP concept at all,
Get the Inform Designer's Manual. (This is available online for free,
or last I checked you can still buy a print copy from the Interactive
Fiction Library.) Read section 3, Objects and Classes. This will
teach you OO better than any C++ book. The rest of the IDM you can
skip (unless you want to write interactive fiction, of course), but
section 3 is the most excellent introduction to OO that I've seen.
If you want to program OO in C++, you will then *also* need a C++ book
on OO, of course. (C++ FAQs or whatever.) Or whatever language you
want to write OO code in.
But the IDM will make the basic OO concepts (objects, classes,
inheritance, and so forth) totally clear to you. It's a good
introduction for several reasons. First, unlike the contrived
examples in most OOP books, the problem domain that the Inform
language was designed for lends itself *very* naturally to an
object-oriented paradigm. Additionally, the Inform language
implements OO very nicely. Graham Nelson is also a very skilled
writer, and the book is really well done.
> That said I have the same sort of concept when it come to
> linux/windows: learnt windows first (whatever ther is to learn), and
> now find it difficult to learn linux. I realyy have to chuck out
> weindows altogether, and start afresh
I found Linux relatively easy to learn, because I learned DOS first.
Windows I picked up later. But the thing that really made Linux an
easy transition for me is that I got a jumpstart by using ports of
*nix applications under Windows for a while. Before finally I
switched over, I was fluent in Emacs, comfortable with mozilla,
familiar with bash (via cygwin) and OpenOffice, and so forth. It took
me longer to complete the transition this way, but it was painless.
If you measure from when I started learning Emacs to when I quit
booting Windows, it took me about two years, but when I started
with NTEmacs, it was because I wanted a more powerful text editor;
at that time, I didn't realise I was training myself on Linux apps in
order to switch over. And when I started using Mozilla, it was
because it was better than other browsers.
If you measure from when I started systematically downloading Windows
ports of the Linux apps I knew I'd need to know to be productive on
Linux (bash and stuff), it was more like six months to complete the
transition to the point where I no longer booted Windows on a regular
basis. Actually, it might have been longer, but the Windows port of
Freeciv had an annoying habit of crashing, bringing other things down
with it, so I booted Linux to play Freeciv, and... well, you know, I
didn't want to stop the game to reboot and get my email all the time.
So at that point I jumped the gun, set Gnus to get the email from my
regular account (up to that point, I had it just getting the mail from
my Yahoo account, where I was subscribed to some mailing lists) and
broke my ties to Pegasus Mail, which was the last app keeping me on
Windows, and the only one I regretted leaving behind.
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> The question would be, did Basic make us OOP retarded, or would we have
> been anyway and starting in C would have blown us off. Id say of the
> people who start with BASIC, 10% give up, 20% get stuck there, and 70%
> move on succesfully. Now with C-starters is it 30% give up and 70% move
> on? No win there. Actually Im not sure Id give it a 70% success for
> starting in C, maybe less than that.
I think you've hit it on the head here. Your percentages are probably
off, but the idea (that the people who get stuck with BASIC and don't
move on would never have got anywhere with C in the first place) is
IMO dead on.
I started with BASIC. I'm now fluent in Perl and use elisp fairly
regularly, but all my attempts to learn C were abortive. These days
I've seen the light, and I no longer really *desire* to learn C,
because IMO the sooner we ditch third-generation languages and move on
to VHLLs the better it will be for everyone. I'm tired of segfaults,
tired of memory leaks, tired of hearing about buffer overruns, tired
of it taking months for skilled programmers to track down bugs that
ought to be simple. The programmer shouldn't *have* to micromanage
memory; the compiler should take care of all those fiddling details
behind the scenes, so the programmer can concentrate on the
implementing the algorithm, handling the data, or whatever it is that
the program needs to be doing. I want C and C++ to go the way of
assembly language and be used only for inherently lowlevel stuff, like
the innermost loops in realtime games and high-performance parts of
kernels and whatnot, and baremetal applications like bootloaders and
virtual machines. Normal apps should be written in a VHLL. I'm
partial to Perl myself, but if you want to use Python or whatever,
more power to you.
John Leppart
"Ben Franklyn" <wel_m...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CDCta.10$sH6....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
I'd start with QBasic. It's in the root directory of Windows. I first
learned Basic, then C, COBOL and C++. I still use QBasic for
math applications, and quick and dirty work :-) Basic is the language that
wouldn't die. After QBasic, probably C++ if you want to
do serious stuff. Then VisualBasic and JAVA if you want to work.
Here's a QBasic program I wrote for fun that turns your name around. Open a
dos window and type QBasic.exe.
When the program starts up, hit the escape key to clear the screen. Then use
the menu to load this program from wherever you have
saved it.
Copy and paste the code to a file named, say, backward.bas
You need to use the .bas extension or QBasic wont find it.
Then choose "run" from the menus and it will run.
I would get a Quick Basic textbook, as QBasic and Quick Basic are the same
except for no compiler with QBasic. You can worry about that
after you have learned a bit. There are freeware basic compilers at the
shareware sites like Tucows.com, Winfile.com, Winsite.com and Simtelnet.com.
Have fun. Write to me if you get stuck somewhere :-)
John Leppart
lep...@i29.net
CLS
INPUT ; "Enter a name ==> ", a$
CLS
FOR i = LEN(a$) TO 1 STEP -1
b$ = MID$(a$, i, 1)
backward$ = backward$ + b$
NEXT i
'-------------------------------------------
'<<<<<<<<<< Find space between name >>>>>>>>
'-------------------------------------------
FOR i = 1 TO LEN(backward$)
i = i + 1
IF MID$(backward$, i, 1) = CHR$(32) THEN space = i
NEXT i
'--------------------------------------
'<<<<<<<<<< Flip names >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
'--------------------------------------
' *** First name ***
FOR i = (space + 1) TO LEN(backward$)
PRINT MID$(backward$, i, 1);
NEXT i
PRINT " ";
' *** Last name *****
' Last name
FOR i = 1 TO (space - 1)
PRINT MID$(backward$, i, 1);
NEXT i
PRINT
Paul O. BARTLETT
so I have set the Follow-Up to alt.lang.basic.compiler, the ng I am
posting this reply form.}
On Sat, 24 May 2003, John Leppart wrote:
> [most dnipped for space]
> I would get a Quick Basic textbook, as QBasic and Quick Basic are the same
> except for no compiler with QBasic. You can worry about that
> after you have learned a bit.
However, QBasic does have some resource limits that QuickBasic does
not. The online help for QBasic suggests using QuickBasic if you want
to buid programs over 160K in size (except that, of course, Microsoft
quit selling QuickBasic years ago).
Per A. Hansen
"Ben Franklyn" <wel_m...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:CDCta.10$sH6....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
I recommend Power Basic
= ( C+ +basic+pascal)/3
--
Med venlig hilsen
Per A. Hansen
Gandalf Parker
news:jktAa.218$qC5...@news.get2net.dk:
>
> "Ben Franklyn" <wel_m...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:CDCta.10$sH6....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having
> trouble
>> starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best for a
>> beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
>> start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>
> I recommend Power Basic
Hmmm didnt see Linux listed under PowerBasic. I saw Windows and Dos
versions. Seeing all the linux groups in his massive crosspost I figured
that was a desire. Did I miss something on the PB page?
Id stick with something GNUish and ANSI for a starter.
Such as YaBasic or BWBasic.
Gandalf Parker
-- There is no "best". There is only Pros and Cons.
Larry Hatch
I learned that way, and BASICally, all languages are pretty easy after
that. The OOPs stuff got me a little.
Ben: If you are using Linux, look at QB2C (you can pull it from
bastoc.com). You will need to get a QBASIC programming manual, since
the documentation is not as good. But the price is right to start..
It allows Inline C as well, so you can mix. If you are Windoze, you can
get FirstBASIC from powerbasic.com.
And the pay for version allows inline asm.
Carl Gundel
> It allows Inline C as well, so you can mix. If you are Windoze, you can
> get FirstBASIC from powerbasic.com.
> And the pay for version allows inline asm.
FirstBASIC is not a Windows BASIC. I'm not knocking it mind you
because it's pretty good, but it's for DOS.
Check out Liberty BASIC if you're looking for an easy Windows
programming language.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
kyohi
>
>I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having trouble
>starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best for a
>beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
>start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>
>Thanks in advance
>Ben
なんかやたらといろいろなグループにポストしているみたいですが。
fj.comp.lang.basic
やっぱり、BASICと言うくらいですから、BASICでしょう。
kyohi
と思いますが。
kyohi
初心者がプログラミングの基本骨格を学ぶのに最適化というと、はたしてどうなんでしょう。
In article <pan.2003.05.06....@jhu.edu>, jef...@jhu.edu says...
Tom Lake
>>starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best for a
>>beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
>>start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>Ben
BASIC is still a great language for an easy introduction to programming.
One super version is at:
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA008683/index.htm
or in English:
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA008683/english/index.htm
Tom Lake
Ivan Marsh
>>>I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having
>>>trouble starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best
>>>for a beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
>>>start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance
>>>Ben
>
> BASIC is still a great language for an easy introduction to programming.
> One super version is at:
Ick... I, unfortunately, learned BASIC as my first language. Don't bother
learning all those things you will have to unlearn. If you start with a
language with a global variable scope, no functions and is built around
using goto you're going to have a hard time making the transition to a
language that thinks all of those things are blaspheme.
As others have said, start with C/C++ or Java. Your first programs don't
have to be overly complicated and everything you learn in a C-like
language translates to every other C-like language out there.
Once you get the logic behind loops and conditional statements it's all
about syntax, no matter what language you're using.
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:57:43 -0500, Tom Lake wrote:
>
>>>>I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having
>>>>trouble starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best
>>>>for a beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
>>>>start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance
>>>>Ben
>>
>> BASIC is still a great language for an easy introduction to programming.
>> One super version is at:
>
>Ick... I, unfortunately, learned BASIC as my first language. Don't bother
>learning all those things you will have to unlearn. If you start with a
>language with a global variable scope, no functions and is built around
>using goto you're going to have a hard time making the transition to a
>language that thinks all of those things are blaspheme.
That must have been a LONG time ago, on a very primitive BASIC. Modern
BASICs have functions, subroutines, local variables, global variables,
(in between variables), common variables . . .
I spent YEARS (well months, anyway) trying to figure out the variable
scope rules for PDS. (ms quickbasic 7.10) Not sure that I ever did.
<snip>
--
ArarghMail702 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html
To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.
Ivan Marsh
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:29:11 -0600, Ivan Marsh <ann...@you.now> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:57:43 -0500, Tom Lake wrote:
>>
>>>>>I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having
>>>>>trouble starting, I need advice as to which language would be the
>>>>>best for a beginner to start with and where I may find the tools
>>>>>needed to start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks in advance
>>>>>Ben
>>>
>>> BASIC is still a great language for an easy introduction to
>>> programming. One super version is at:
>>
>>Ick... I, unfortunately, learned BASIC as my first language. Don't
>>bother learning all those things you will have to unlearn. If you start
>>with a language with a global variable scope, no functions and is built
>>around using goto you're going to have a hard time making the transition
>>to a language that thinks all of those things are blaspheme.
>
> That must have been a LONG time ago, on a very primitive BASIC.
Indeed it was (Apple IIe).
> Modern BASICs have functions, subroutines, local variables, global
> variables, (in between variables), common variables . . .
I had no idea BASIC had evolved... or that anyone had bothered to make it
evolve.
> I spent YEARS (well months, anyway) trying to figure out the variable
> scope rules for PDS. (ms quickbasic 7.10) Not sure that I ever did.
Now that I've spent a considerable amount of time with C++ I wish it had
been the first language I worked with.
//\\o//\\annabee
I strongly recommend that the child starts with no less then assembly
programming.
There is no tool as happy to go where the playful mind of a child would
like to go, than an assembler. Do not polute a childs mind with the
abominations of C, C++ and or C# or absurdities like Java.
The one i am using, and that I recommend is RosAsm.
< http://betov.free.fr/RosAsm.html >
If he goes this route, he will be teaching you guys a thing or two, in
less then a few months. In a few years, he will be laughing his head of at
you gays, woundering what went wrong with you.
:))
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:50:16 -0600, ArarghMail702NOSPAM wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:29:11 -0600, Ivan Marsh <ann...@you.now> wrote:
<snip>
>>>Ick... I, unfortunately, learned BASIC as my first language. Don't
>>>bother learning all those things you will have to unlearn. If you start
>>>with a language with a global variable scope, no functions and is built
>>>around using goto you're going to have a hard time making the transition
>>>to a language that thinks all of those things are blaspheme.
>>
>> That must have been a LONG time ago, on a very primitive BASIC.
>
>Indeed it was (Apple IIe).
Someone gave me an Apple IIe some time back. No software, however.
>
>> Modern BASICs have functions, subroutines, local variables, global
>> variables, (in between variables), common variables . . .
>
>I had no idea BASIC had evolved... or that anyone had bothered to make it
>evolve.
Just take a look at QBasic (comes with DOS 5. . . & Win9x). It has a
lot of the features that the for pay versions have.
>> I spent YEARS (well months, anyway) trying to figure out the variable
>> scope rules for PDS. (ms quickbasic 7.10) Not sure that I ever did.
>
>Now that I've spent a considerable amount of time with C++ I wish it had
>been the first language I worked with.
About the only way I can understand C programs (beyond very simple
ones) is to feed it thru the compiler and read the corresponding asm
code. :-) The GUI versions of VB, also.
J French
wrote:
<snip>
>> That must have been a LONG time ago, on a very primitive BASIC.
>Indeed it was (Apple IIe).
That was my second dialect of BASIC
>> Modern BASICs have functions, subroutines, local variables, global
>> variables, (in between variables), common variables . . .
>I had no idea BASIC had evolved... or that anyone had bothered to make it
>evolve.
You would not recognize it nowadays, in fact you would not recognize
20 year old BASICs
ΔΗΜΗΤΡΙΟΣ ΚΟΚΚΙΝΑΚΗΣ
j1mb0jay
simple to pick up. There is lots of "free" code out there to help you get
started. Microsoft have also realsed "Express" editions of the program you
need to create you first application, for free.
Regards j1mb0jay
???
mario...@neostrada.pl
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> 111
> "kyohi" <ky...@starline.ee> wrote in message
> news:ek7j8k$dkb$1...@caraway.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp...
>> In article <CDCta.10$sH6....@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
>> wel_m...@hotmail.com says...
>>>
>>>I am very interested in learning programming. However I am having trouble
>>>starting, I need advice as to which language would be the best for a
>>>beginner to start with and where I may find the tools needed to
>>>start.......literature.....compilers...etc.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance
>>>Ben
>>
>> $B!!$J$s$+$d$?$i$H$$$m$$$m$J%0%k!<%W$K%]%9%H$7$F$$$k$_$?$$$G$9$,!# (B
>> fj.comp.lang.basic
>>
>> $B!!$d$C$Q$j!" (BBASIC $B$H8@$&$/$i$$$G$9$+$i!" (BBASIC $B$G$7$g$&!# (B
>>
>
>
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