On Original Sin, Part One
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Brock
May 4, 2011, 8:30:22 PM5/4/11
to A Civil Religious Debate
from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJccOedwHT0
On original sin[1]
Warning: This essay discusses intense language and themes.
Many, if not most people, naively believe they have a full and
complete knowledge of themselves; that they can transparently assess
the inner workings of their own heart and mind. But, like looking in
a dark and opaque mirror, self-knowledge is a secret not so easily
mastered. However, were our motives truly clear to our selves, even
the worst and most hardened person would be astonished, shocked, and
frightened to learn of the evil inner workings of all, including the
highest and noblest hearts on earth. Each person, learning the
terrible truth, would despair at their horrible condition, and at
their vile standing before others.
For this reason, among others, we note: God keeps us from perceiving
the full and hideous nature of the human heart. The most enlightened
believer in the world does not fully understand their moral and
natural deprivation; and is not able to realize the depths of
iniquity, which is perpetually throwing up mire and dirt; and which,
like a spring seeping poison at the bottom of a well, fully infects
and discolors its contents. Using the light of scripture and grace,
we receive a humbling view of ourselves, and are lead into an even
deeper understanding of the full abominations inside. The closer we
look at ourselves, the more dirt we see, and realize that there is
even more shame and filth to come.
God says by the prophet[2]: "the heart of humankind is deceitful above
all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?". And abstracted
from supernatural grace, the apostle said, "in my flesh dwells no good
thing"[3]. Still a greater testimony says: "out of the hearts of
humankind, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye,
blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within,
and defile each person"[4]. A person after soberly considering this
Christian declaration, cannot then suppose the state of a human mind
as neutral, or merely starting from a blank sheet of white paper[5] .
Instead, it is so blotted and defiled, that nothing but the peerless
blood of God, and the invincible Spirit of grace can make it again
clean and white.
Neither are the temptations of the enemy, nor the bad examples of
others which are so easy for us to imitate, the causes of this
spiritual and moral leprosy. They are but the external circumstances
stirring up and calling forth the latent corruptions already within.
As David speaks: if our inward parts were not wicked, if we were not
shaped by iniquity and conceived in sin[6], if being an enemy to God
and His holiness was not moulded into our very frame and texture; then
temptation and bad example would be ugly and unappealing to us and
offer nothing of interest. The truth is, we all have an inherent bias
to be bad, which instead of being revolted when presented with
temptation, falls in with the instigations that present themselves
from without. As has been said, "Like is drawn to like", and the evil
that is both inside and outside of us sympathetically pulls, excites
and attracts each other. It is the degenerate fuel already present
inside the heart which takes fire from the external sparks of
temptation.
To a holy, pure and glorious God, how black such a human heart
appears! The very Creation in comparison is not clean! We can assess
the terrible blackness of sin by the price God paid to redeem us from
it, which was the very incarnation and death of His own Son, and by
the power He displayed in converting us from its dominion over us.
====
[1] a modern paraphrase of "A Short Essay on Original Sin", by A.
Toplady,
http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/atoriginalsin.htm
[2] Jeremiah 17:9 http://bible.cc/jeremiah/17-9.htm
[3] Romans 7:18 http://bible.cc/romans/7-18.htm
[4] Matthew 15:19 http://bible.cc/matthew/15-19.htm
the testimony of God is greater than the human heart and body.
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa ... Toplady rejects an
epistemological concept made popular earlier by John Locke
[6] Psalm 51:5 http://bible.cc/psalms/51-5.htm
On original sin[1]
Warning: This essay discusses intense language and themes.
Many, if not most people, naively believe they have a full and
complete knowledge of themselves; that they can transparently assess
the inner workings of their own heart and mind. But, like looking in
a dark and opaque mirror, self-knowledge is a secret not so easily
mastered. However, were our motives truly clear to our selves, even
the worst and most hardened person would be astonished, shocked, and
frightened to learn of the evil inner workings of all, including the
highest and noblest hearts on earth. Each person, learning the
terrible truth, would despair at their horrible condition, and at
their vile standing before others.
For this reason, among others, we note: God keeps us from perceiving
the full and hideous nature of the human heart. The most enlightened
believer in the world does not fully understand their moral and
natural deprivation; and is not able to realize the depths of
iniquity, which is perpetually throwing up mire and dirt; and which,
like a spring seeping poison at the bottom of a well, fully infects
and discolors its contents. Using the light of scripture and grace,
we receive a humbling view of ourselves, and are lead into an even
deeper understanding of the full abominations inside. The closer we
look at ourselves, the more dirt we see, and realize that there is
even more shame and filth to come.
God says by the prophet[2]: "the heart of humankind is deceitful above
all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?". And abstracted
from supernatural grace, the apostle said, "in my flesh dwells no good
thing"[3]. Still a greater testimony says: "out of the hearts of
humankind, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye,
blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within,
and defile each person"[4]. A person after soberly considering this
Christian declaration, cannot then suppose the state of a human mind
as neutral, or merely starting from a blank sheet of white paper[5] .
Instead, it is so blotted and defiled, that nothing but the peerless
blood of God, and the invincible Spirit of grace can make it again
clean and white.
Neither are the temptations of the enemy, nor the bad examples of
others which are so easy for us to imitate, the causes of this
spiritual and moral leprosy. They are but the external circumstances
stirring up and calling forth the latent corruptions already within.
As David speaks: if our inward parts were not wicked, if we were not
shaped by iniquity and conceived in sin[6], if being an enemy to God
and His holiness was not moulded into our very frame and texture; then
temptation and bad example would be ugly and unappealing to us and
offer nothing of interest. The truth is, we all have an inherent bias
to be bad, which instead of being revolted when presented with
temptation, falls in with the instigations that present themselves
from without. As has been said, "Like is drawn to like", and the evil
that is both inside and outside of us sympathetically pulls, excites
and attracts each other. It is the degenerate fuel already present
inside the heart which takes fire from the external sparks of
temptation.
To a holy, pure and glorious God, how black such a human heart
appears! The very Creation in comparison is not clean! We can assess
the terrible blackness of sin by the price God paid to redeem us from
it, which was the very incarnation and death of His own Son, and by
the power He displayed in converting us from its dominion over us.
====
[1] a modern paraphrase of "A Short Essay on Original Sin", by A.
Toplady,
http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/atoriginalsin.htm
[2] Jeremiah 17:9 http://bible.cc/jeremiah/17-9.htm
[3] Romans 7:18 http://bible.cc/romans/7-18.htm
[4] Matthew 15:19 http://bible.cc/matthew/15-19.htm
the testimony of God is greater than the human heart and body.
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa ... Toplady rejects an
epistemological concept made popular earlier by John Locke
[6] Psalm 51:5 http://bible.cc/psalms/51-5.htm
e_space
May 5, 2011, 7:18:19 AM5/5/11
to A Civil Religious Debate
wow, is it sunday already? man this week went by fast! ;-^)
> Toplady,http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/atoriginalsin.htm
>
> [2] Jeremiah 17:9 http://bible.cc/jeremiah/17-9.htm
>
> [3] Romans 7:18 http://bible.cc/romans/7-18.htm
>
> [4] Matthew 15:19 http://bible.cc/matthew/15-19.htm
> the testimony of God is greater than the human heart and body.
>
> [5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa... Toplady rejects an
> [2] Jeremiah 17:9 http://bible.cc/jeremiah/17-9.htm
>
> [3] Romans 7:18 http://bible.cc/romans/7-18.htm
>
> [4] Matthew 15:19 http://bible.cc/matthew/15-19.htm
> the testimony of God is greater than the human heart and body.
>
SM
May 5, 2011, 4:23:54 PM5/5/11
to a-civil-reli...@googlegroups.com
Superbly articulated! Woeful is the inherited state of man! How marvelous and magnificent the love of God that He would regard such wretched creatures with such mercy and grace! This present slice of eternity will forever be a testimony to the incomprehensible love of God! Worthy is the Lamb!
SM
May 5, 2011, 4:27:58 PM5/5/11
to a-civil-reli...@googlegroups.com
Superbly articulated! Woeful is the inherited state of man! How marvelous and magnificent the love of God that He would regard such wretched creatures with such mercy and grace! This present slice of eternity will forever be a testimony to the incomprehensible love of God! Worthy is the Lamb!
For e_space: It is accurate to note emotion in the above; I wasn't constrained by stoicism when I wrote that. :)
e_space
May 5, 2011, 4:46:18 PM5/5/11
to A Civil Religious Debate
got it ... fervently gushing is more like it ;-^)
14SM.jcil
May 5, 2011, 5:03:54 PM5/5/11
to a-civil-reli...@googlegroups.com
On May 5, 2011, at 16:46, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> got it ... fervently gushing is more like it ;-^)
Heh, maybe you're right...appropriately so though, I consider. :)
Brock Organ
May 5, 2011, 5:17:18 PM5/5/11
to a-civil-reli...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 7:18 AM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> wow, is it sunday already?
> wow, is it sunday already?
No, today is thursday.
Regards,
Brock
Brock Organ
May 5, 2011, 5:22:57 PM5/5/11
to a-civil-reli...@googlegroups.com
Amen, Worthy is the Lamb! :)
The positive comments make me want to work more on part two! :D
Regards,
Brock
Tracey Maddow
May 6, 2011, 12:49:16 PM5/6/11
to A Civil Religious Debate
On May 4, 5:30 pm, Brock <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On original sin[1]
Romans 5:12, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and
by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have
sinned."
> On original sin[1]
Romans 5:12, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and
by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have
sinned."
Brock Organ
May 6, 2011, 1:13:41 PM5/6/11
to a-civil-reli...@googlegroups.com
Amen! :)
Regards,
Brock
e_space
May 6, 2011, 7:36:43 PM5/6/11
to A Civil Religious Debate
e_space
May 6, 2011, 7:39:17 PM5/6/11
to A Civil Religious Debate
oh man! ;-^) ... just think, if adam hadnt sinned, and therefore death
hadnt been "created", we could have him over for supper ... just
imagine, talking to a man who is thousands of years old and walks
around nude! dang, that would be some party, eh? ;-^)
On May 6, 1:13 pm, Brock Organ <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Tracey Maddow
>
hadnt been "created", we could have him over for supper ... just
imagine, talking to a man who is thousands of years old and walks
around nude! dang, that would be some party, eh? ;-^)
On May 6, 1:13 pm, Brock Organ <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Tracey Maddow
>
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