ZS Airsoft (yeah its that time kids...)

[woz]

Those who are not willing to dump time and money into this, please
dont post in this thread. If you have ANY questions concerning airsoft
please do PM me and I would be happy to answer those questions! ^_^

There is a game coming up on the 17th of November. Its time to start
training as well as start picking up gear.

Now who is sincerely interested in this? Because we need to start
running through some training scenarios. This sport isn't cheap. Did I
mention this game will be a CQB? Yeah all you pistol freaks will have
fun with this one!
Also did we make it official that we were leaning towards a AK based
look? I know the people who were interested were told about the ideas
for the uniforms.

Here is the message from the ARairsoft forum:
"1st Annual CQB Challenge Day
We at BATTLE ZONE have acquired a date for the MOUT buildings that we
have used in the past. At fort Chaffee in the Fort Smith area.

We will be having on the 17th of November from 0900 till 1700.

Cost will be $20.00 per player

We are looking for teams of 5-6 operators each, but will have slots
available for fewer team numbers or individuals.
For those who have not been to the facility it has 5 permanent
structures, two which have multiple floor levels. All have primary and
secondary entry points.

Contest include:
Hostage rescue
Room clearing
Hogan's alley
Active shooter

More to come ."

So yeah I'm really excited!
'Who's with me?'

[dresden]

Is at the place in Chaffee that we used to play?

[woz]

Update on the rules and such.

"1st Annual CQB Challenge Day
We at BATTLE ZONE have acquired a date for the MOUT buildings that we
have used in the past. At fort Chaffee in the Fort Smith area.

We will be having on the 17th of November from 0900 till 1700.

Cost will be $20.00 per player. Can be paid via paypal prior to game
to lock in slots.

We are looking for teams of 5-6 operators each, but will have slots
available for fewer team numbers or individuals.
For those who have not been to the facility it has 5 permanent
structures, two which have multiple floor levels. All have primary and

secondary entry points. Photo's to follow.

Contest include:
Hostage rescue
Room clearing
Hogan's alley
Active shooter

Force on force

More to come .

CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT
RULES OF WAR

DONT'S
· NO PYROTECHNICS OTHER THAN THOSE USED OR ISSUED BY EVENT STAFF
· NO OPEN FLAMES OF ANY KIND
· NO REAL STEEL (TO INCLUDE FIREARMS OR BLADES)
· NO CLIMBING ON OR OVER UNSAFE OBSTACLES
· NO ATTITUDES
· NO BICKERING ABOUT WHO SHOT WHO, OR IF YOU WERE SHOT (PLAY WITH
HONOR)
· ABSOLUTELY NO SMOKING INSIDE OR OUTSIDE ANY BUILDING OR STRUCTURE
ONLY AT DESIGNATED AREA'S.

DO'S
· HAVE FUN
· ACT AS A TEAM PLAYER NO MATTER WHAT
· HELP TEAMMATES
· PUT IN YOUR OPINION
· TRY TO MAKE IT AS REAL AS POSSIBLE
· MOST OF ALL... HAVE FUN!!

Waiver Required For All Players, Prior To Entering the Field

Weapon restrictions:
AEG's AND SHOTGUNS 400 fps MAX with .20's
10 FOOT ENGAGEMENT RULE
Sniper class 550 fps with .20's and, also must carry secondary weapon
for close quarters combat.
100 FOOT ENGAGEMENT RULE
Semi auto pistols 350 fps with .20's
2 FT INDOOR ENGAGEMENT RULE

MAG RESTRICTIONS
Mid or Low cap Only
No Box Mags on anything other than noted Support weapons. i.e. 249,
M60, or RPK

All guns must be chrono'd and tagged prior to taking it onto the
field.
Guns may be re-chrono'd randomly by a referee during the event if
Questioned.

Safety equipment required:
FULL SEAL GOGGLES ONLY! SHOOTING GLASSES WILL NOT BE ALLOWED!
UNIFORMS ARE TO TEAM TYPE. NO SET REQUIREMENT OTHER THAN BDU STYLE.
GLOVES ARE RECOMMENDED!
BOOTS ARE MANDATORY! NO TENNIS SHOES! DUE TO TRIP HAZARDS!
GOGGLES MUST WITHSTAND 500 FPS POINT BLANK, AND MUST BE TESTED IF
QUESTIONABLE"

[woz]

Yes

[Cronyx Ravage]

what the hell, i thought that place got annexed by the city?

[woz]

It did but I'm not sure whats going on. Anyways I'm looking forward to
playing. Anyone else?

[OQ]

Sounds fun as hell. Guess I know what my next paycheck is going towards :)

[dresden]

ick, i really have a hard time giving those guys money to play airsoft
in a more or less public space

On Oct 22, 5:28 pm, OQ <overlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Cronyx Ravage]

same here, i'm not giving them money for the "right" to play with them.

[woz]

lol, i knew you guys would say that... Anyways I'm still looking
forward to having some fun!

[Cronyx Ravage]

dude don't give those guys money, they don't even own the property.

for that matter we should have a "ZS airsoft day" there on the same day
and try to charge them money. endless lulz will be had by all.

[Fennrisulfr]

On Oct 23, 10:42 am, Cronyx Ravage <cro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> dude don't give those guys money, they don't even own the property.
>
> for that matter we should have a "ZS airsoft day" there on the same day
> and try to charge them money. endless lulz will be had by all.
>

LAWL!!!!

I'll be in Kansas at a reenacting event that weekend anyway.

[woz]

"Those who are not willing to dump time and money into this, please

dont post in this thread" I stated this earlier.

Not trying to be a jerk but it would be nice to have a team that got
off there asses to play once and awhile. And thats what its all about.
PLAYING!!! Not talking shit all day just because you played airsoft
once or twice, own a few guns and you play lots of CS. Its about
getting in there, getting dirty, getting owned and owning some too.
Its about FUN. If you dont think you would have fun, dont play, and
dont post. If you think you would have more fun bitching all the time
about other players, go right ahead but please dont drag those who
actually want to play into your melodrama. But thats all common sense,
though most people dont have that.
Feel free to make another thread to bash those guys if you want but
please delete your posts that have no relevance to the intention of
this thread.

Sooooooo if anyone wants to play, please by all means join us. We need
to do some training on room clearing and we also need to start getting
the group to think as one. Fennrisulfr have a fun time at your
reenactment. Take lots of pictures.

[dresden]

I don't understand why we can't play there on our own to
practice...I'll look into it...

[Cronyx Ravage]

You're right, it is all about paying. Er, typo, I mean playing. It's
easy to confuse the two. :P

I am more than happy to play, any time any where, I can be ready to go
in as little as 30 minutes. I bring it up more than anybody here -- and
granted, "talking about it" isn't enough, but then again going out to a
field by yourself is a little ghey. But I'm sure as hell not demanding
that anyone pay me to play with them.

You brought up CS (Counter Strike) so lets use that analogy. You know
what I paid to play CS? About 50 bucks, for HL2. Yeah you have to pay
some money to play. You've also got to pay some money to play airsoft;
you've got to buy a gun. But paying someone for the "privilege" of
playing with them represents a level of lunacy that disqualifies it for
consideration in this, or any other analogy.

I'm not going to pay anyone to engage in a recreational activity with
me. If the fun of playing, in and of itself, is insufficient enough that
they require further motivation in the form of financial restitution,
they either need to find a different sport.

Now if they'd like to chalange ZS to a team match, I'm sure we'd be more
than happy to accommodate and take them up on it. But it is an exercise
in intellectual bankruptcy to suggest that one team needs to pay the
other for the "privilege".

woz wrote:
> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/woz9001/
> internet_arguement.jpg">
> Lol but seriously, STFU!

> "Those who are not willing to dump time and money into this, please

> dont post in this thread"
> I stated this earlier.
>

> Feel free to make another thread to bash those guys if you want but

> please delete your posts that have no relevence to the intention of
> this thread.

> Not trying to be a jerk but it would be nice to have a team that got
> off there asses to play once and awhile. And thats what its all about.
> PLAYING!!! Not talking shit all day just because you played airsoft
> once or twice, own a few guns and you play lots of CS. Its about
> getting in there, getting dirty, getting owned and owning some too.
> Its about FUN. If you dont think you would have fun, dont play, and
> dont post. If you think you would have more fun bitching all the time
> about other players, go right ahead but please dont drag those who
> actually want to play into your melodrama. But thats all common sense,
> though most people dont have that.
>

> Sooooooo if anyone wants to play, please by all means join us. We need
> to do some training on room clearing and we also need to start getting
> the group to think as one. Fennrisulfr have a fun time at your
> reenactment. Take lots of pictures.
>
>

[dresden]

>From the maps I can find online, it looks like Fort Smith has that
portion of Chaffee, and we've seen FSPD patrol there, at least, I
think it was FSPD, could be Seb Cnty Sherriff. If it's FSPD, then I'm
pretty sure we just contact them prior to any games to get a go ahead
vs. the city ordinance that states you're not allowed to brandish
airsoft within city limits. I'd like to further find out who spread
the rumor that 'we're not allowed to play there' in the first place,
we've lost a lot of time because of that.

[OQ]

On 10/23/07, Cronyx Ravage <cro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You're right, it is all about paying. Er, typo, I mean playing. It's
> easy to confuse the two. :P
>
> I am more than happy to play, any time any where, I can be ready to go
> in as little as 30 minutes. I bring it up more than anybody here -- and
> granted, "talking about it" isn't enough, but then again going out to a
> field by yourself is a little ghey. But I'm sure as hell not demanding
> that anyone pay me to play with them.
>
> You brought up CS (Counter Strike) so lets use that analogy. You know
> what I paid to play CS? About 50 bucks, for HL2. Yeah you have to pay
> some money to play. You've also got to pay some money to play airsoft;
> you've got to buy a gun. But paying someone for the "privilege" of
> playing with them represents a level of lunacy that disqualifies it for
> consideration in this, or any other analogy.
>
> I'm not going to pay anyone to engage in a recreational activity with
> me. If the fun of playing, in and of itself, is insufficient enough that
> they require further motivation in the form of financial restitution,
> they either need to find a different sport.
>
> Now if they'd like to chalange ZS to a team match, I'm sure we'd be more
> than happy to accommodate and take them up on it. But it is an exercise
> in intellectual bankruptcy to suggest that one team needs to pay the
> other for the "privilege".
>

I guess I'm just behind the times, guess I'll hafta call up the PGA
and tell them charging entry fees for tournaments isn't cool anymore.

[Cronyx Ravage]

> I guess I'm just behind the times, guess I'll hafta call up the PGA
> and tell them charging entry fees for tournaments isn't cool anymore.

The Professional Golfers' Association isn't an applicable analogy in any
regard. Lets examine some of the most obvious differences between the
PGA and a hand full of guys squatting land they don't own to charge
people to shoot at eachother with toy guns.

The PGA:

* is an acknowledged and established organization.
* owns their own property and/or acquires property for the purpose of
legitimately hosting events.
* offers a legitimate service to participants that is otherwise
unavailable and thus has a measurable value.
* acknowledges the achievements of participants with trophies and other
tangible prizes.

The guys from fort smith operating out of the back of a warehouse past
zero street:

* do not own the property for the event they host.
* do not have permission to use the property in question.
* do not have the legal authority to authorize the playing of airsoft in
non-designated areas.
* do not offer a legitimate service of any kind to participants that
they can not otherwise engage in for free themselves.

Look, I'm more than happy to pay for a service. Paying for services is
not something I have an idealogical conflict with. I pay for services
every day.

This isn't a service. I can go out in the woods and play for free. Hell,
I can go to Ft Chaffy to play for free. I don't need their permission to
do it, because they can't OFFER that permission. If I "hosted an event"
in which people could come to the park and play frisbee for ten bucks, I
would *expect* you to laugh at me. And if you didn't, I would be more
than happy to take your, or any fool's money. But even that analogy
isn't really required, lets turn the exact same scenario around. I
myself go out to Chaffy and tell everybody they can come out and shoot
at eachother for a fee, when you've been going out there and doing the
exact same thing without me for free. That's where the objection is.
There is no objection in the concept of paying for a service, so long as
a *service* is actually being offered.

Now, what might constitute an event, in the common lexicon? A service
that could reasonably be marketed? Things I can't do myself for free,
or, things that are too much trouble and I'm too lazy to do. How about
some mission objectives more complicated than those in Counter Strike.
Lets have some well thought out scenarios with more than one mission
objective, multiple approach vectors, win conditions, AND failure
models. I want some props set up before hand to create a more immersive
environment. Give me some rarely seen ordinance, a "wow!" factor, land
mines, claymores, mounted guns in fortified positions with sand bags. I
want Armored Personnel Carriers, humvees with TOP M60 AEGs on the hatch,
and a freaking helicopter with Piper Precision Products gas powered
M-134 vulcans raining down on the battlefield.

I'm not paying for a circle jerk with some guys from down the street on
some land they don't even have permission to be on. And even if they
*did* have permission to be on it, we could get the same permission.

But the last reason it isn't an applicable analogy is that this isn't a
"tournament". There aren't rival teams meeting to duke it out. Even
something as simple as that I might be tempted to pay for, because at
least there's some modicum of a service being marketed, some legwork,
prep time and paper work, official score keeping and something to win.
We could enter that as our own ZS squad.

But that is *not* what this is. I would play for *that*.
This is just doing what we can already do, and HAVE ALREADY DONE, for free.

These guys don't act like they really want to play. And it isn't really
hard to act like you want to play. In fact, no acting is involved. You
just do it. They're acting like they want to be paid by their peers to
engage in their own hobby.

[dresden]

sounds like these guys may not be legit, and that's enough for ZS to
stay clear of these kinds of events, if we get into ANY negative
publicity, then kiss our chapter goodbye, like us getting arrested for
illegal airsoft... now, if they are legit, that's another story, but
we don't know for a fact they are yet...

[dresden]

Looks like these guys might have done their homework, they claim to
have. I got enough information from them that I should be able to
verify what they said. If what they say is true, then they /might/
have a justification to charge money, as they did a 'service' by
acquiring an acquirable location for us to play. Then you decide for
yourself what you are willing to pay to play. I really liked it
better when we could play there every weekend. I bet we still
can...will continue pursuing that as well...I'm really ready to start
shooting!

[woz]

"I really liked it better when we could play there every weekend"

Me too.

OQ, Cronix has now skull fucked this thread to death lol. Keep egging
him on if you want. I dont care anymore lol.
Cronix, you know i fucking love you <3<3<3 ^_-
Btw, everyone i'm sorry for being so serious before. Lets go play some
airsoft before that shit happens again lol!

[OverlordQ]

Nah its my fault, I completely misunderstood who they were and what the
facilities were.

[dresden]

I sent a message to my uncle, a FSPD detective, I'm asking him to
point me in the right direction on this if he can...

[woz]

Its all good

On Oct 29, 7:42 am, OverlordQ <overlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[woz]

Ok, well if no one wants to go thats cool. I just wanted to give a
heads up that a roll call is going on for that event.

Also for future reference who wants on the ZS team? All you really
have do is come play and your on. It would be great to practice once a
month or something too.
One of the guys from arairsoft.net asked me to get a head count for
the ZS team and give a brief summery.

[ladyh...@yahoo.com]

I would love to check it out, but I've never done anything like this
before and I don't have the money right now to buy equipment.

> > facilities were.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[OQ]

On Nov 7, 2007 8:28 AM, <ladyh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I would love to check it out, but I've never done anything like this
> before and I don't have the money right now to buy equipment.
>
>

this.

/or qft for you non-farkers
//or me too!!!!!!!!! if you use AOL

[ladyh...@yahoo.com]

This post makes no since. Were you trying to add links? I know what
airsoft is but I don't know if I would like it or not without trying
it out.

On Nov 9, 11:00 am, OQ <overlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[OQ]

Was just implying I was in the same situation with regards to never
done it before and do not have the money for the equipment.

[ladyh...@yahoo.com]

That makes sense now. So now, Frank, Collin, Woz, any of you guys
willing to take us out and show us what this is like?

On Nov 12, 3:34 pm, OQ <overlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> done it before and do not have the money for the equipment.- Hide quoted text -

[woz]

Absolutly! I'll let you use some of my guns. As for getting a group
and land to play a proper game, that I can not supply. The next time
the guys I usally play with have another game I'll fill you all in.
I know one of you lives in F-ville but next time your in town you
could drop by and see what its like to at least shoot the guns and or
mabey get shot ^_-
Just give a heads up

[woz]

Another game coming up. The 29th of December. Its 10 bucks to play.