Re: A Thai aspect on YouTube.com

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jim puntasen

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Apr 16, 2007, 5:11:06 AM4/16/07
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Dear Paola and Chris,
 
I am saying this objectively...
 
As a Thai, I do know why the ICT Ministry still continue to shut down Youtube.com, for as long as it could become sure that someone (internationally) would not again take a mock at the King of Thailand.
 
For the Thais, this is very sensitive- even though the world is laughing at us why we are the only country that is extremely sensitive (and wonder if we could really go on with the authority imposing the blocking forever, every time).
 
The same goes for the mocking of other royal members and Buddha & Buddhism.
The Thai Authority would devote all efforts to crush anything that they feel that it is
offensive to the Thai nationals and the country.
 
Even during Taksin's government, Newsweek Asia had its share of troubles with this regard- so did the Financial Times.
 
I don't think Taksin's footage on Youtube.com was the original cause of trouble- as
I myself have viewed him on Youtube several times, for several days.
 
So, if you have grown up else where- but Thailand- you would not be able to understand this phenomenon. I am on the other hand, used to it, and it could take
1,000 of years for the above to change (i.e. any kind of comment on the Thai Royal
Family or the Thai Buddhism).
 
Again, I am saying this objectively- and I think Art or some other Thais would say the similar thing...
 
Regards,
Jim Puntasen.
 
 
 
 
On 4/16/07, paola....@gmail.com <paola....@gmail.com> wrote:

HI Chris
Great idea

I do not share some of the tones of some 'anticensorship campaigns' in
the sense that to date I have not experienced 'censorship' on my skin,
I am perfectly free to say and write everything that I feel (so far so
good) and the shutting down some rubbish websites is not causing me
any trouble. I have not shared the sentiment behind some of the
anticensorshp iterature to date, which I feel may be cause by motives
other than freedom of expression and I perceive simply as counter
'propaganda',

I think the philosophy behind cersorship however is not to create
'debate' and noise around controversial issues, but if our current
'regime' is democratic, than nobody should
be afraid of expression

I think many on this list will join you in  requesting access to
YouTube for practical/professional reasons, and in any petition that
as a net citizen you may feel
appropriate to undertake

I believe that Art has already visited the office of the ICT minister
on a prior occasion, about Open Source, and maybe can help us again to
deliver a polite request for dialogue and resolution

Let's elaborate further

Cheers

pdm

On 4/16/07, Chris Smith < csm...@csmith.info> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Overlords
>
> Looks like there is still some life in the Overlords dungeon.
>
> I'm after some help or suggestions ...  as you probably know already the
> Thai ICT Ministry blocked YouTube for everyone in Thailand.  OK ... so I
> know it's easy to bypass the filters ... heck, I even have an area of filter
> busters on Shambles
> http://www.shambles.net/pages/learning/ict/filterbust/
>
> But when using a proxy to access YouTube the pages display OK but the
> embedded videos do not play .... and quite difficult to find the .flv file
> name.
>
> BUT ... this is not my question ... it is ... anyone have suggestions on the
> best way to ask the Ministry to unblock YouTube ... I understand the
> offending video that caused the block in the first place has been removed
> (except replaced by others) ... I suspect I need the advice of a Thai
> political activist rather than a techi.
>
> This is even more inconvenient to me at the moment as I'm in the progress of
> growing a  "Forest of Theme Blogs" ... one way of accessing them is
> via http://www.shambles.net/blogforest/
>
> So guys ... any suggestions .... I would have hoped the Ministry had a
> webpage which listed the sites currently blocked and gave options to respond
> to them.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
> ePortfolio www.shambles.net/csmith
> w-shops www.shambles.net/csmith/workshops
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Chris Smith  :  email: csm...@csmith.info
> Based in Thailand, working across S.E.Asia
> The Education Project Asia www.shambles.net
> Support for ICT across the Curriculum (consultancy)
> 'It's out there somewhere, the trick is finding it'
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>  >
>


--
--------------------------------------------
Paola Di Maio
School of IT, MFU.ac.th
--------------------------------------------

"For as long as space and time endures
may I too abide to dispel misery and ignorance"


jim puntasen

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Apr 16, 2007, 5:16:12 AM4/16/07
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(What I mean by "shut down" - is to the local users in Thailand..blocking rather!)

Art - Arthit Suriyawongkul

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Apr 16, 2007, 9:12:18 AM4/16/07
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Hi,

For me, as an indivisual Thai, yes, I feel very uncomfortable with the
King mocking clip.

Anyway, blocking the whole website is not a joke.
I'm in a sorry state to see MICT cannot deal with the issue with
minimum side-effects
(they may already tried to do their best, I'm not blaming. I'm just sorrying).

Everything needs filtering, there're too much information out there.
Even every information is perfectly good, we still need to filter some out..
Time is limited. Bandwidth is limited. (Storage) Space is limited.

But I'm not sure about letting someone else to filter things out for
me, or my minors.
(given they are still under legal's age -- i'm not having any anyway :P)

I don't want my country to be a nanny state.
As Ajarn Nithi already said in his article [1],
if parents expect the state to raise up their children,
just leave them to the protectory.

" ข้อสรุปอันแรกที่ผมอยากย้ำไว้ก็คือ คนไทยต้องเลี้ยงลูกเอง
เลิกคิดที่จะให้รัฐเลี้ยงลูกแทนเสียที
เพราะถ้าคิดอย่างนั้นหอบลูกไปทิ้งไว้หน้าสถานเลี้ยงเด็กกำพร้าของรัฐดีกว่า
"

I want to love my King with my own heart, concioused intention.
Not to love him because the government had cutted out other options.

Thai people collectively, if we love our King wholeheartly, can
banned/sanctioned YouTube,
if they do nothing against this clip. And the world will listen respectfully.
(and YouTube should at least listen to their users anyway).
Thai government banned the site, without its people consent. The world
will question.

We need to learn to do something by ourselves.
Expressing the love is not someone else's job.

regards,
Art

[1] นิธิ เอียวศรีวงศ์, จากหัวนมถึงอำนาจพลเมือง, มติชน สุดสัปดาห์
ฉบับประจำวันที่ 16-22 มีนาคม พ.ศ. 2550 ปีที่ 27 ฉบับที่ 1387 หน้า 33
Nithi Eawsriwong, "From Nipples to Citizen Power", Mathichon Weekly,
16-22 March 2007, Vol. 27, Issue 1387, pp 33
(I did an excerpt here:
http://bact.blogspot.com/2007/03/nipples-and-citizen-power.html )

--
:: Freedom Against Censorship Thailand
:: http://facthai.wordpress.com/sign/

lin...@gmail.com

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Apr 16, 2007, 9:24:30 AM4/16/07
to Web, Online Information, Collaboration and Knowledge Thailand
I applaud you, Art!

People are not as stupid as most governments would have you believe.
If people find it offensive they will speak up. They really don't
need military or bureaucratic nannies.

If they cut off this information, what other information might they
cut off

jim puntasen

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Apr 16, 2007, 10:48:33 AM4/16/07
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Dear all,
 
I do agree with Art- however there are not so many Art's or Dr. Nithi Eawsriwong's
around..in this country, to speak up! (this is sad- but true...)
 
Personally, I think the Authority in Thailand will continue to excercise blockage
to the Internet, where they see as major threats to culture and the national being.
 
Let me show you how sensitive the Thai Law is, towards any offense against the
Thai Monarchy, through the recent example (exerpt from The Age (Australia),
30-3-2007)
 
10 years' jail for insulting Thai king
A SWISS man who sprayed graffiti on posters of Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej on the monarch's birthday has been jailed for 10 years. Oliver Rudolf Jufer, 57, pleaded guilty to five counts of lese majeste - insulting the monarch - in a Chiang Mai court and faced up to 75 years in prison. But he was given a comparatively light sentence. Oliver Jufer
The Age 30/03/2007    
 
I am quite certain that Youtube.com would be very relieved that they do not have to face the same ordeal, but I am not sure on the clip poster! (If he happened to post in Thailand..well, may God save him).
 
Regards,
Jim

jim puntasen

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Apr 16, 2007, 12:15:38 PM4/16/07
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Yes, folks...the Thai Authority would not (and could not) change
their approach in regards to this kind of blockage.
 
Remarks: Please don't forget that any cabinet in Thailand had to be
                officially appointed by the King, under HM royal decree,
                prior to their term of service (and take the oath
                before HM to relentlessly serve the nation, the
                religion, and the King).
 
The Minister of ICT had to go through the above ceremony.
Hope this explains everything! That is just the way, it is.
 
Sincerely,
Jim
 
PS- If you still don't understand, please read from the 1st posting
      of this subject, once more (and repeat..)
    - Personally, there are several things I myself don't like about
      Thailand..but you just got to learn to appreciate- the Thai way,
      to make life happy...here, and do without what you are
      accustomed to at home or having been used to else where,
      (yet I am a Thai!)
   
   
 
 
 
         
 
 
On 4/16/07, jim puntasen <jim.pu...@gmail.com> wrote:

lin...@gmail.com

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Apr 17, 2007, 1:55:18 AM4/17/07
to Web, Online Information, Collaboration and Knowledge Thailand
Jim, if this is the "Thai way", then the Thai way is not a
democracy. So why not just give up the pretense and call it a
Dictatorship?

On Apr 16, 11:15 pm, "jim puntasen" <jim.punta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, folks...the Thai Authority would not (and could not) change
> their approach in regards to this kind of blockage.
>

> *Remarks:* *Please don't forget* that any cabinet in Thailand had to be


> officially appointed by the King, under HM royal decree,
> prior to their term of service (and take the oath
> before HM to relentlessly serve the nation, the
> religion, and the King).
>
> The Minister of ICT had to go through the above ceremony.
> Hope this explains everything! That is just the way, it is.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jim
>
> PS- If you still don't understand, please read from the 1st posting
> of this subject, once more (and repeat..)
> - Personally, there are several things I myself don't like about
> Thailand..but you just got to learn to appreciate- the Thai way,
> to make life happy...here, and do without what you are
> accustomed to at home or having been used to else where,
> (yet I am a Thai!)
>

> On 4/16/07, jim puntasen <jim.punta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Dear all,
>
> > I do agree with Art- however there are not so many Art's or Dr. Nithi
> > Eawsriwong's
> > around..in this country, to speak up! (this is sad- but true...)
>
> > Personally, I think the Authority in Thailand will continue to excercise
> > blockage
> > to the Internet, where they see as major threats to culture and the
> > national being.
>
> > Let me show you how sensitive the Thai Law is, towards any offense against
> > the
> > Thai Monarchy, through the recent example (exerpt from The Age
> > (Australia),
> > 30-3-2007)
>

> > *10 years' jail for insulting Thai king*<http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac?sy=nstore&pb=all...>
> > *
> > *A SWISS man who sprayed graffiti on posters of Thailand's King Bhumibol


> > Adulyadej on the monarch's birthday has been jailed for 10 years. Oliver
> > Rudolf Jufer, 57, pleaded guilty to five counts of lese majeste - insulting
> > the monarch - in a Chiang Mai court and faced up to 75 years in prison. But
> > he was given a comparatively light sentence. Oliver Jufer

> > *The Age* 30/03/2007
>
> > I am quite certain that Youtube.com <http://youtube.com/> would be very


> > relieved that they do not have to face the same ordeal, but I am not sure on
> > the clip poster! (If he happened to post in Thailand..well, may God save
> > him).
>
> > Regards,
> > Jim
>

jim puntasen

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Apr 17, 2007, 4:32:55 AM4/17/07
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Lindern,
 
I only dream that they would write in the Thai Constitution that...
 
       "Any person who promotes or practices Dictatorship- or engage in
       a Coup de tat in the Kingdom of Thailand would be ultimately 
       prosecuted, without hesitation."
 
Regards,
Jim.
 
PS- In history, the Thai leaders rarely ask what the public want, before
       they jump into anything...(Our 75 years under the so-called 
       Democratic Constitution have meant nothing..)
    -  I have lived in America and Australia- but Thailand would never,
       never be anything alike, in term of speech and media freedom.
   

 
On 4/16/07, lin...@gmail.com <lin...@gmail.com> wrote:

lin...@gmail.com

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Apr 17, 2007, 5:44:30 AM4/17/07
to Web, Online Information, Collaboration and Knowledge Thailand
It will certainly never have freedom of speech if the people do no
stand up and demand it. If you sit back and say, oh, well. This is
Thailand. Things will never change. Then for sure they will never
change. And you deserve then what you get.

On Apr 17, 3:32 pm, "jim puntasen" <jim.punta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lindern,
>
> I only dream that they would write in the Thai Constitution that...
>

> *"Any person who promotes or practices Dictatorship- or engage in*
> * a Coup de tat in the Kingdom of Thailand would be ultimately *
> * prosecuted, without hesitation."*
> **


> Regards,
> Jim.
>
> PS- In history, the Thai leaders rarely ask what the public want, before
> they jump into anything...(Our 75 years under the so-called
> Democratic Constitution have meant nothing..)
> - I have lived in America and Australia- but Thailand would never,
> never be anything alike, in term of speech and media freedom.
>

jim puntasen

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Apr 17, 2007, 9:04:38 AM4/17/07
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Dear all,
 
I apologize to state the following...(as much as I would
like to be the optimist, like Lindern..)
 
The system embeded here, appears to be for eternity.
Same as in China's control on  today's internet access...
or its trace of communist control.
 
We Thais have dared to speak to the government, but it
still goes back to the Constitution, esp. on public rights which have been dwarfed.
 
Youtube.com is just only one example, that the cabinet
has tried to demonstrate all its efforts, to save Thailand's sovereignty
(or the mentioned).
 
Even the Thai media have long fought for their own rights, for 30-40 years- but still being held down by the Constitution.
 
Jim
 
PS- Also a number of those who are currently drafting the new
      constitution came from the old-era political groups.
    - God bless..if they could really understand the importance of
      open communications! (most will pretend that they do not..)

jim puntasen

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Apr 17, 2007, 10:19:46 AM4/17/07
to WO...@googlegroups.com, Art - Arthit Suriyawongkul
Dear Lindern,
 
Talking about the new Constitution..this news from The Nation 17-04-2007, said it all...on Thailand's future of "open communications"
 
..and the coup de tat/ dictatorial politics, to come..
 
First draft finalised, no debate on de facto amnesty for junta

The first draft of the 2007 charter was finalised Tuesday, after a last-minute attempt by a constitution drafter to discuss the negative repercussions of allowing a de facto amnesty for the military junta who staged the September 19 coup was denied by Constitution Drafting Committee chairman Prasong Soonsiri.

Drafter Supot Kaimuk Tuesday said the issue had become a "hot potato" since it was revealed last week and that the committee should perhaps discuss it.

However, Prasong intervened to make sure no discussion take place.

Prasong will hand the first draft to Chairman of the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) Thursday but the official hand over ceremony will likely be held on April 26.

Regards,
Jim
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