Pam Sorooshian and I were talking earlier this month about
improvements in marriages because of unschooling. Not just our
marriages, but other people's.
The rules involved in traditional parenting don't do much to help
husbands and wives get along. The principles involved in unschooling
*DO* and there's another surprise. I didn't know that would be an
outcome of unschooling, but it was!
Any other stories? I should collect some. I have the page asking
people not to get divorced frivolously, but people who are getting
along well won't go there (which is fine). We need a happy-marriages-
Maisha's quote in context (the context is even better!) is here:
And you can click on the title of the blog to get to the newest posts.
The page on Divorce (prevention of, for unschoolers) is
I have an amazing relationship with my husband because of the way we raise
have chosen to raise our children. We grow WITH them as people. Through
our brainstorming and working together as a family to figure out what all
our needs are around our home, we have learned to communicate in a non
violent way and very openly. We are able to discuss things openly without
getting our feelings hurt (most of the time) and come to a compromise that
suits both of us. Many times we realize it is simply one thing - usually a
simple thing - that needs a gentle tweak. It makes me proud to think we
have come so far in such a little time (we've been unschooling /
homeschooling for 4 years now.) I love the closeness our family has
developed as we learn to work together.
(For those who didn't follow those links before.)
I put the links here
http://sandradodd.com/spouses (which still isn't ready to announce
generally, but so you'll know you're one of the first ones in there!)
and a quote here:
Keith and I have had a couple of exchanges today that made me think
of this topic, but I can't remember exact words. I remember the
feeling, though, of knowing that if we were younger I would've been
insulted or had my feelings hurt, and said something defensive, and
then he would've been miffed. And in neither case, today, was he
trying to be mean to me at all. One involved moving rocks in the
yard, and he said "Come with me," and walked off. I just followed
him. The inside, old me bristled a teensy bit, but I know that when
I yell "Come look!" he and the kids will come to see what I think is
worth coming to look at, whether it's a bug or a TV interview or
whatever it is. And I go when I hear them, too, to see if they're
okay or if something so cool happened that I want in on it before
it's all over.
The other thing was about taxes. This year I made enough (because
of speaking in Sacramento) to have to pay taxes, and Keith was
working on the taxes. I had to figure out what kind of business I
was in, for a code for a space. Education? Publishing? Information
gathering? He was kinda grumpy about owing $400 more than if I
hadn't made anything. I didn't buy into his grumpiness, nor make
fun of him, nor defend myself. I understand that he's odd with
money, and that we keep more than we pay in taxes, and that he'll be
okay once the tax forms are all in the mail. I LOVE that he likes to
do the taxes himself. I LOVE that he's so good with money. I don't
love that he was trying to make me feel guilty that it would be my
fault if we couldn't afford to go and see Kirby, but after 30 years,
I'm used to his manner of dealing with frustration. I could've
interpretted it horribly, or I could understand that he will figure
out a way for us to visit Kirby, and it wouldn't have been easier if
I had made nothing this year instead of a couple of thousand
dollars. (Boy, that college education is really... uh... never mind.)
So we both joked lightly and sweetly to dissipate the tension, and I
lit the hot tub so we can sit and talk nicely to each other in the
dark tonight and instead of dwelling on moments of frustration, I can
look forward to 20 minutes of quiet aloneness.
I took him dinner. I made salmon, potatoes and heated up home-canned
green beans (I didn't can them; my sister-in-law did). I delivered
him a plate at his tax-prep table. He said "I didn't know you meant
you were going to make dinner right away. I looked at the clock and
it was 5:00. I said, "It was an hour ago I talked about it. Time
flies when you're having a lot of fun, huh?"
He was a little sheepish, because an hour seemed like "right away,"
but he laughed and said nice things about the plate of food.
I don't think there is a "male realm." Maybe that's your missing
puzzle piece. Maybe you think the things he did or didn't do had to
do with him being mail. If so, then you were pouring all your
resentment of any male ever into that wound, and you might have been
exasperated when he wasn't like the best males you've ever known.
-=-r husband following his interests to being
totally supportive of him. Which sounds like it is a wonderful thing
for your family- your kids benefit, and of course your husband- but
what about you? As you explained, his acting is taking up almost all
of the time he could be spending taking care of the family with you-
can you please address how it's ok with you if he hogs all the free
time and support for his personal growth?-=-
"Hogs all the free time" shows some serious resentment. What's the
difference between "free time" and... what?
There is time. There are choices. There are people to touch and
smile at and talk to.
"...but what about you?"
It's a "but what about me?" feeling, projected, I think. If you give
your whole self to your family, you'll find you still have your
-=- I'm sure you can find ways here and there to take care of your
own needs and still manage to
provide for everyone else's, but is that ok with you?-=-
There are phrases here that could be taken down to elementals to help
you see how you're blocking your own clarity.
"Find ways here and there" seems less than whole. And "still manage
to provide for everyone else's" too. There's a tone of disbelief and
entitlement that are probably keeping things from being okay with you.
When Kirby was in a relationship, and when he was going to share an
apartment with another friend (male, roommate), I gave him advice
(the first time, and a reminder later): Never split anything 50/50.
Never expect to only do 50 percent of anything. Do more. Be
generous. Sometimes you'll give more, sometimes you'll give less,
but if you always aim at more, good things will happen.
I don't "provide for everyone else's" needs in my family. I help
them provide for their own, sometimes. They provide for mine,
sometimes. More and more, as they get older. Holly made breakfast
yesterday and brought me a plate downstairs! I've done that for her
for years. Yesterday she did it for me, just as a gift. She will
probably do it for people for the rest of her life, with joy and not
Do you want people here to help you get back with your husband? It
could be done, if you want help.
It would be great for your kids. http://sandradodd.com/divorce
I'm sure you can find ways
here and there to take care of your own needs and still manage to
provide for everyone else's, but is that ok with you? Or have you and
your husband worked out a way for him to step in with the family and
give you time to pursue your own personal goals?
The above was not posted in question to me - but to jump into the thread here I'm going to answer - as these questions *could* have applied to me. I want to preface though by saying that I may well be 100% "wrong" - my older children all feel that I am wrong (in seeing/handling the situation as I do.) Anyway, this is the way I look at things - yes dh does his own things which ***extremely rarely*** involves the rest of the family (or *anyone* else in the family) - but the way I see it is THAT is HIS choice. My personal goals and joys DO involve my (our) children. That is my choice. I think of the children (and now grandchildren too) as MY children - not *our* children - as I think of them as a *gift* from dh. HE most likely would not have chosen to have children if not for the fact that he knew how badly *I* wanted children. Now, I'm not by any stretch of the imagination saying we have a good relationship - or one that anyone should model in any way, shape, or form. But I'm saying that we are both (at least moderately) content in this sort of non-relationship. I think it depends to a great extent on *what* your goals are.
All the posts should be out on the table for anyone. No problem
We're trying to talk about the ideas and not the individuals.
> The rules involved in traditional parenting don't do much to help
> husbands and wives get along. The principles involved in unschooling
> *DO* and there's another surprise. I didn't know that would be an
> outcome of unschooling, but it was!
What I don't understand and what has always just burned me, is that it
never seems to be in the male realm to do the same thing
Find your priorities. If you're interested in unschooling, a divorce
is the fast track to no choice.
How are his parents and your parents as to awareness and support of
your problems and marriage? What are your family resources? (You
don't need to tell us, but consider that as a factor.) Or do you
have a mutual friend, or does he have a beast friend, someone you
could appeal to to reason with him? Sometimes opening the problem up
to the larger group is better than letting it force a wedge between a
husband and wife.
-=-it occurred to me that
my partner may actually have an addictive personality.-=-
So do lots of people. That's not grounds for divorce.
-=-I come away from these
conversations thinking we are in agreement until I find that my SO has
again charged up hundreds of dollars on the credit card or overdrawn
the checkbook. -=-
When Keith and I had been married just a few years, we would agree on
any purchase over $25 or $30. If one of us right now bought
something for $1000 the other one hadn't agreed to it would be BIG,
and bad, but we don't. These days we're up to about $200, and it's
very occasional. It built up gradually over 30 years.
Maybe talking about that, about not spending anything other than
grocery money and bills that the two of you don't decide on together,
though it might be too late or difficult now, would help?
-=-I realized how
big this might really be that I was literally throwing up. If anyone
can point me in the right direction with my thinking and what to do, I
would really appreciate it. I'm willing to clarify with specifics,
but for now just wanted to get this out there. Please, if anyone can
advise me, where do I start?
I haveideas in a couple of directions. One is to go to al-Anon
meetings. You might be able to find one with child care or where you
can have the baby with you if he'll sit with you quietly. If you
can't at all go to meetings, maybe find websites or online al-Anon
discussions. There might be something like that. Figure out how to
keep a peaceful, safe place for you and your child.
MANY people used to have problems they no longer have. Many people
are recovering from addictions or alcoholism.
If you are separated or divorced, your child will be with your
husband sometimes, instead of with you. Never forget that for an
instant. If you're married you have more ability to protect your won.
Here's my other idea--more radical and I don't know if it's doable.
If you can get your in-laws or parents or friends to help, great. If
they try to help and it seems to be getting worse, maybe you could
try to make a deal with your husband to relinquish his parental
rights. It would keep you from getting child support, but you
wouldn't have to deal with the drinking and gambling, nor worry about
sharing custody. It's an unusual step, and it might be the thought of
that that would make him consider getting help and making a change.
Sometimes people's insurance or medical coverage will cover four or
some sessions of marriage counselling.
> It all seems so very long ago. Since the day I received my divorce
> decree, my daughter Jossilyn was diagnosed with AML, underwent chemo
> and a BMT, spent 18 glorious months in remission then relapsed and
> died one year ago today. So many of the issues that seemed HUGE
> before May 25, 2005--the day we received Jossil's diagnosis--pale in
> comparison to that which has occured since then...
Thank you for writing. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say
that my heart goes out to you today. Life is so fragile. We need to
remember to live, as you said, gloriously!
You don't need to regret a post like that. It was an expression of
reasonable fear, about real things. But it's easy to jump from the
frying pan into the fire, as they say.
People grow and change, even as adults. It's not as though whatever
people do after 21 they're stuck with until they're 65 (unless it's a
felony and they get 40-to-life; another fear-response to avoid).
It's not as though negative choices can never be turned around. The
world is full of people who changed. This list is full of people who
have made choices that took their lives in better directions (some of
us after choices that took our lives in worse directions, years ago
or the other day).
Hello! I'm testing, in 2020, whether I can still respond. :-)