jumping from topic to topic in interests
MyVavies
the library, the next day they jump to a new topic, I can't stand it!
I feel like they are not learning anything! They don't have ADD or
anything ,so it's not that. I don't know what to do. I am about to
have a curriculum if this continues up. What do I do?Thanks.
Janine
Sandra Dodd
If you stop thinking about topics, you'll be a giant step closer to
unschooling. Everything is connected.
-=-After going to the library, the next day they jump to a new topic,
I can't stand it!-=-
Unschooling might occasionally seem like unit studies, when someone in
the house is really interested in something. But it might *never*
look like that.
If you think of unschooling as learning all the time and connecting
little bits of knowledge to other prior knowledge, there can be no
"new topic."
-=- I can't stand it! I feel like they are not learning anything! -=-
When did you start unschooling?
Maybe look at this again: http://sandradodd.com/descholing (And again
after a month or two, and again after six months or a year; it will
look different.)
Sandra
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 22, 2010, at 9:14 PM, MyVavies wrote:
> What do you do if your child jumps form topic to topic. After going to
> the library, the next day they jump to a new topic, I can't stand it!
> I feel like they are not learning anything!
You have a vision of what you're certain learning is supposed to look
like. Your child is trying his or her best to show you your vision is
wrong ;-)
> I don't know what to do. I am about to
> have a curriculum if this continues up. What do I do?Thanks.
Maybe since you're not learning from what your child is demonstrating
in front of you, your child should get you a curriculum about real
natural learning ;-)
Actually Sandra gave you a link to the "curriculum"! ;-)
Her website is like real learning. You start on one page which you can
read straight through and then follow the links at the bottom. But
more importantly if you get curious about a related topic that's
linked you can go off on tangents, following your curiosity.
My page is more like people are trained to think of learning. All
orderly topics flowing from one to the next. You could read from the
top left down to the bottom right. But it makes it more difficult to
see the connection between topics that don't seem related, like how
kids learn math and cleaning up. Fortunately Sandra gave me a
randomizer :-)
Real learning, the kind of learning humans are hard wired to do, is
about discovering connections between one thing and dozens of things.
What those connections will have in common is interest.
Sometimes learning looks like flitting from one thing to another. But
it's more like gathering a collection of something. If you imagine
collecting world stamps or coins, seashells, leaves, 80's heavy metal
CDs, Pokemon ... you don't begin with A, collecting only those that
begin with A until that's complete, ignoring ones that are there right
in your reach but out of order. You gather what interests you as you
find it. It's whimsical.
Real learning sometimes look like deep immersion in one thing to the
exclusion of most anything else. It can look like playing a video game
for days and days. It can look like endless games of pretend.
Real learning *sometimes* looks like reading. But it also -- and more
importantly! -- looks like talking, listening to music, dancing,
playing with a friend, digging in the sand, watching favorite TV
shows, finding shapes in clouds, drawing, building forts, riding a
bike. Real learning most of the time looks like playing. Here's a good
page:
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
Real learning looks like doing a billion piece jigsaw puzzle.
Sometimes you'll work on a dragon down in the corner. Sometimes you'll
work on a cat in the center. Sometimes you'll work on the bits that
are red. Sometimes you'll work on the frame. Eventually you'll
discover what connects the dragon and the cat. You'll work on whatever
interests you. And eventually there will be a rich collection of
individual bits that form a bigger picture. But since it's a billion
pieces you'll never do the whole thing. You'll just do the parts that
fascinate you.
Where that analogy breaks down is that all the connections are already
there in a jigsaw puzzle for you to discover. In real life, there are
connections that are obvious -- all dogs have certain characteristics
that makes them dogs for instance -- but the important connections are
the ones no one ever has seen before. Like how a love is better than
a summer day :-) Or how time is space and space is time. And the
beauty is that you don't need to know all the obvious connections
first. Sometimes the obvious connections get in the way, cause you to
think inside the box. Innovative thinking is not confining ideas to
how they're "supposed" to be connected, or what box they're "supposed"
to be in.
Real learning will hardly ever look like school. It will hardly ever
look like starting at the "beginning" of a subject, sucking in someone
else's understanding to the "end". The beginning and end are false
concepts for most subjects. They exist because books are finite.
Because classes are finite. Because grading periods are finite. But
real life isn't bound by the limitations of books. It goes off in all
sorts of directions, making rich connections between history,
literature, science, art, music, math, language and 1000s of other
boxes schools put learning into.
The reason people are certain it's hard to learn "everything someone
needs" is because schools use methods that very few people find it
easy to learn from! Schools use the methods they do: step by
fundamental step, from start to finish, because it's cheap. It's based
on factories. This might help you let go of the old model to start
making a new one:
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
School learning is like being told how to assemble the dragon piece of
the jigsaw, which pieces to put where and in what order. And then the
cat. And then the book. And then the bird. And you must do it in that
order the way they tell you because they're teaching you how to
assemble jigsaw puzzles and that can't be left to chance.
Unfortunately by the time you're done with the process you're so sick
of jigsaw puzzles you have no interest in doing them yourself and
never see how the dragon and cat connect and don't even care.
Real learning is doing that billion piece jigsaw puzzles however you
please. Or running off to watch TV. Or chase the dog. :-)
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
from this page:
http://sandradodd.com/learning
If you read this right after I write it, I won't have done that yet.
But if you go to that page and start following links (by clicking on
pictures) you might never get back to it to see what I did with
Joyce's writing. And that wouldn't keep you from learning.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Even two people reading the same book are gleaning different things
from it, or maybe one is just looking at the photos. Last night
Marty and I pulled down several books with sections about The Black
Death of the 14th century. We weren't "reading the books," we were
using them as reference materials for details and stories. But as
sometimes happens, other interesting parts jumped out at us, just from
having the books in our hands and using the index, or flipping through.
The tangents are the good parts.
I started a blog hoping to help people see that, but it's the least
favorite of my blogs among readers, maybe because they are MY
tangents. :-) But for examples of connections in learning, you might
look at a few of these:
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com
and
http://sandradodd.com/connections
-=-Real learning looks like doing a billion piece jigsaw
puzzle....Where that analogy breaks down is that all the connections
are already there in a jigsaw puzzle for you to discover.-=-
That, and that jigsaw puzzles are flat and all the pieces are made of
the same substance. The billion piece jigsaw puzzle from which each
person builds his or her own learning has pieces that are huge, and
some that are tiny but made of metal, and each piece has a history,
and some have fantasy versions.
Sometimes to understand a joke, people have to know three or four
different things already. Sometimes a piece of humor ties together
LOTS of trivia/learning in ways other things can't do. Sometimes the
joke isn't uplifting, but it's still created of surprising and
theretofore unrelated things. Some people won't get the joke (yet,
or ever) and that only makes it more fun for those who DO get it.
Why don't witches have babies?
Their husbands have "Holloweenies."
It's just a goof. It's not a political statement on 21st century
wiccans, nor does it have anything to do with European fears of
mysterious happenings.
Why don't gypsies have babies?
Their husbands have crystal balls.
It's not a put-down of the nomadic people of Europe, nor of their
husbands' testicles. And anyway, they DO have babies--gypsies do.
But that's not the point.
Why doesn't Mrs. Clause have babies?
Because Santa only comes once a year, and that's down the chimney.
Do NOT tell that joke to young children who believe in Santa. It will
NOT be funny, and it would be very rude to even begin to explain it.
But there being a place and a time for such tomfoolery, teenagers
might find it pretty hilarious the first time they hear it.
I always have those jokes as a set, in my head. That connection has
existed in me for decades. From those connections I could make a
hundred more. I can open up to connections and to smiling and to
silly humor, or I could judge those things as wrong and wasteful and
bad, and use that dark wad of negativity to make myself unhappy and
maybe some of the people around me, too. But if I were that way,
unschooling wouldn't have worked as well as it did for our family.
That brings me to my blog that's most popular with readers:
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/
Sometimes light is from an Aha!! lightbulb moment.
Sometimes light is more information, or seeing from a new angle, "in a
new light."
Sometimes light is from the sun, or the moon, or a fire.
Sometime light comes from just lightening up. (Not "lightning up,"
or "lighting up," so spelling will make a big difference, in those
lights.)
Live lightly.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Julie Osborne & Luke Barnes
Julie
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3273 - Release Date: 11/23/10 06:44:00
Sandra Dodd
Thanks! And look what I found on facebook (via Pam Sorooshian this
morning:
http://unschooling.blogspot.com
Good for all of us, to have something else to share with pressuring
relatives.
Sandra
MyVavies
I just have one concern. I want my children to finish what they start.
Sometimes, NOT MOST TIMES, but sometimes, you cant' go at your own
past and have to do what needs to be done, like college.
I was somewhat unschool as a child, before their was a name ,or my
mom knew what it was. Now that I am in college, I am having problems
finding motivation in the classes I take.
For example, I'm taking Early Childhood classes (something I love)
and Math classes ( Something I have to take to get my degree). In
theses classes, by midway through, I feel like I got what I want out
of the class ,and I’m ready to move on. However, I need to stay with
it to get a passing grade ,so I can get my degree. Therefore I have to
stay and learn the stuff that isn't to interesting to me.
I never learned this as a child, so I am barely passing my classes due
to the fact that I rather read a book about Jonestown after watching a
documentary on it, then do my homework, since I have no longer an
interest in that class, if I ever did.
I just don’t want my kids to do this. My oldest (9) is already
starting to do so. In playdates and other group activities, he stops
midway and says “okay, lets do something different.” The other
kids ,who are homeschool but not unschooled, look at him with
disbelief and say “but we just started” or “You can’t just ditch us!
Your apart of our team!”
I feel like there is got to be a way were I can still unschool and
have them finish what they start. I do love the jigsaw puzzle example!
I just wish I could apply it in every aspect of life.
SORRY ABOUT THE GRAMMER , I HAVE 15 MIN TO TYPE THIS!
Schuyler Waynforth
have them finish what they start."
Joyce Fetteroll
> I just have one concern. I want my children to finish what they start.
> Sometimes, NOT MOST TIMES, but sometimes, you cant' go at your own
> past and have to do what needs to be done, like college.
Wanting someone to be different from who they are will be a ginormous
roadblock to unschooling.
On the other hand, helping someone find better ways to accomplish what
*they're* trying to do will turn you toward unschooling. But you need
to let go of your agenda for them, let go of what you think should be
accomplished and tune into what goal the other person has.
> Therefore I have to
> stay and learn the stuff that isn't to interesting to me.
> I never learned this as a child
First, one of the big ideas of unschooling is that people can learn
what they need to know when they believe it's valuable to their goal.
Second, your assumption that you would have learned it as a child is
false. Schooled kids are made to *act* like they're sticking with a
task, but many do that by temporarily shutting down their feelings of
what's important to them. Some don't learn how to turn the feelings
back on and by the time they're adults they have no idea what their
interests are. Many learn to tune out the voice that tells them when
something doesn't feel right and tune into the voice that says experts
know better than I do. That's the training you missed out on: how to
shut down your feelings, how to allow faith in experts to drown out
your inner voice.
Third, let go of the idea that you missed some important training and
you're now stuck. You can accept your personality and see how
switching gears quickly can be an asset in many professions. You can
also find techniques to stay focused when your enthusiasm starts to
wane. Search online. Here's some things I stumbled across a bit ago.
They're more about procrastination but they might help and the
Positivity blog might have some that are more targeted:
http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2006/10/12/7-ways-to-move-beyond-procrastination/
http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2007/06/13/25-simple-ways-to-motivate-yourself/
http://tinyurl.com/yzn78uh
It's not your childhood that's getting in your way. It's your right
now self who is making excuses why you can't.
Let go of how much easier you believe life could be if your past had
been different. You can't know that. It's very likely you could not
only lack techniques to get through something that bores you but also
feel incapable of learning. (One of the effects of forcing reading (or
history or math) on kids before they're ready is they can decide
they're stupid or that reading is stupid.)
Even if you had missed out on something, that's not an excuse either.
Wishing the past were different to make the present different doesn't
change the present. Only making changes in the present does that.
> I just don’t want my kids to do this. My oldest (9) is already
>>
> starting to do so. In playdates and other group activities, he stops
> midway and says “okay, lets do something different.”
From his point of view, everyone's brain works too slowly and they
refuse to keep up ;-)
It's part of his personality. Many parents who are worried about their
kids learning to read, end up seeing only the kids who can read and
not the kids who can't. You're not seeing the kids who move quickly
from topic to topic probably because being out spoken and taking
charge is not as common a trait as going along. So you're less likely
to see kids who want to direct others along their lively paths.
At some point if he's frustrated with what's happening, you could
coach him on ways to help others transition and get them moving in
another direction. But at 9 it's not reasonable to expect him to be
able to think that far ahead.
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
start.-=-
If you start a book and decide you don't like it, will you finish it?
If you start eating a dozen donuts, and after you're not in the mood
for donuts anymore, will you finish the dozen?
If you start an evening out with a guy and he irritates or frightens
you, will you stay for five more hours to finish what you started?
If you put a DVD in and it turns out to be Kevin Costner and you don't
like Kevin Costner, will you finish it anyway?
The only things that should be finished are those things that seem
worthwhile to do.
When I'm reading a book, I decide by the moment whether to keep
reading or to stop.
Even writing this post, I could easily click out of it and not finish,
or I could finish it and decide not to post it. Choices, choices,
choices.
Wanting your children to learn to ignore their own judgment in favor
of following a rule is not beneficial to them or to you. It will not
help them learn.
-=-Sometimes, NOT MOST TIMES, but sometimes, you cant' go at your own
past and have to do what needs to be done, like college.-=-
At your own pace, you mean?
College doesn't "need" or "have to" be done. It's an option among
many options.
-=-I was somewhat unschool as a child, before their was a name ,or my
mom knew what it was. Now that I am in college, I am having problems
finding motivation in the classes I take.-=-
If your mom didn't know what it was, I don't think you were somewhat
unschooled. Perhaps you intend to say you were neglected or left to
fend for yourself, but that's not unschooling.
If you're having problems finding motivation, don't take the classes.
It's a choice. If you decide you Do want to take the class, then you
have chosen that, and you can choose to do the work because you're
fulfilling your own desire, not because you want to finish everything
you start.
Sandra
lylaw
Thanks for reminding me why I do this.
I just have one concern. I want my children to finish what they start.
Sometimes, NOT MOST TIMES, but sometimes, you cant' go at your own
past and have to do what needs to be done, like college.
I was somewhat unschool as a child, before their was a name ,or my
mom knew what it was. Now that I am in college, I am having problems
finding motivation in the classes I take.
========================
hi, not sure what "somewhat unschooled" means - but I wasn't unschooled at
all. and yet my parents were very lax, and essentially the way they
parented me was as unschooly as one can be, with a child still in school.
and I didn't "learn" to finish what I started, through mandates or
requirements, or even guidance or modeling (my parents weren't so into
finishing what THEY started), but - and here's the main point I am trying to
make - I was ALWAYS some one who liked to finish what I started - it was
part of my temperament. so I was able to do that in SPITE of everything
stacked against those odds. I have had to actively learn, in my adulthood,
to be ok with NOT finishing what I start, sometimes, if it seems like my
time or energy would be better spent on other things (such as focusing on my
kids.) that's a skill that more people could benefit from learning, I
think...
so - some people tend to be driven to finish things, some people are
wonderful at starting things (and pair up well with others who like to
implement and see to completion, but don't necessarily have the initiative
to create or conceptualize something. the world needs all types.
the other point I want to make is that having the flexibility as a kid to
NOT finish everything that's started makes it much more appealing to try
lots of different things, which is at the heart of unschooling, really. if
a kid fears (and rightly so) that they will be required to "finish what they
start" they will be much more selective about what they start, perhaps
missing out on so many things that could end up being very meaningful to
them.
lyla
Laurie Wolfrum
--- On Wed, 11/24/10, MyVavies <myva...@gmail.com> wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MyVavies
about!
Janine
Sandra Dodd
Yes.
I had a friend when my kids were single-digit ages and after she hung out with our family a while she decided she would unschool just like we did. Before long she explained to me her liberal total unschooling policy on her son's reading. He was eight or nine. She told him he could read any book he wanted to, as long as he finished any book he started.
Quicker than training a cat not to get on the table, she trained him not to start any books at all.
Sandra