Biden and Ukraine

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Gloria Emeagwali

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Jun 20, 2022, 9:38:52 AM6/20/22
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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jun 22, 2022, 5:12:35 PM6/22/22
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A few days ago I read in  Svenska Dagbladet (an excellent  Conservative Swedish newspaper) that Ukraine was losing a battalion ( approximately 1,000 soldiers) each and every day. At the same time, all we hear from the mostly Western Press is that Ukraine is "winning " the war; common sense wants to know how Ukraine could be winning the war when in fact Ukraine is steadily losing more and more territory to Russia. Right now, the former comedian is dreaming big, instead of seeking peace and pursuing it, he's boasting that with a little help from his NATO friends he's gonna take back Crimea...

The War in Ukraine  (An assessment from 13th June) by the Schiller Institute ( not exactly my cup of tea

On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 15:38:52 UTC+2 Gloria Emeagwali wrote:

Harrow, Kenneth

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Jun 23, 2022, 5:04:33 AM6/23/22
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in the western press i see, ukraine is seen to be losing maybe 200 per day, and territory in the east. nothing about winning. the u.s. is reassessing how to come to terms with some kind of accommodation with russian accessing/appropriating ukrainian territory
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

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Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Biden and Ukraine
 
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Toyin Falola

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Jun 23, 2022, 5:41:09 AM6/23/22
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Ken:

As in many wars, the longer it drags the more it fades from regular conversation. I don’t follow the war anymore. My arguments remain the same:

  1. Zelensky and Putin must talk.
  2. To think that Putin will pay for all those damages is an illusion.
  3. For Europe to keep spending on defense is not the way to go. I was recently in France, Germany and Switzerland. The cost of living is high.
  4. Biden may end up losing the mid-term electiion, and what this means may be a diminished presidency.
  5. Whom do you humiliate when this war comes to an end? This is a problem.
  6. If you lose 200 people per day, what is the responsibility of regional and international leadership.

TF

Harrow, Kenneth

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Jun 23, 2022, 6:45:02 AM6/23/22
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hi toyin,
i think there are some points where we agree. and others, less so.
where to begin:
from the start of the war, there were members of the list who supported russia's actions, no matter what. and others who opposed them, no matter what.
some of the points of disagreement turned on nato, was this a real threat to russia, did its actions justify russia's invasion.
--my position is nothing justified russia's invasion. i also lean, as has moses, on the belief that individual countries' sovereignty must be respected, that invasions and war do not settle disagreements justly, with maybe some exceptions. one exception is genocide. the failure to intervene in rwanda's genocide was one of the crimes of the 20th c., and the responsibility for that lay with the belgians and french, who convinced the u.s. to prevent un peacekepers from being augmented. ultimately clinton apologized. but 800,000 died, and no westernpower paid any price.
the responsible parties in rwanda did pay a price, as was just.

the russians are using arguments like nazi this or nato that to commit the crime of invading a neighboring sovereign country and attacking its people and independence, as they did before in georgia. they commited war crimes against civilians in syria and chechnia. and are doing the same in mali, and perhaps the c.a.r. it baffles me why anyone would want to excuse this. not baffles, really. there are economic and political interests at stake--hardly just reasons for these crimes.

--the ukrainians are resisting and paying the price. realistically they should sue for peace and cede territory. in fact, we know they already did this with crimea; none of us knows they are not offering compromises to putin, but he appears to be a horrific maniac who want to restore russian imperial glory that was lost with the end of the u.s.s.r.

i also don't know realistically how much freedom to manouvre zelensky has now that they have had war on their soil, and bodies piling up of people willing to die for their country. the algerian revolution might be a parallel about the margins for negotiation, which finally ended when the french govt changed.

i say all this in the belief that russia and cuba and other revolutionary states, whose revolutions, like the french, was glorious, turned sour with the rise of authoritiarianism
some on this list are ok with authoritarianism. i find it generally, and in the long run, against the interests of the people, which is why we had those revolutions in the first place: to assert the just power of the people to overcome oppressive forces, either from the outside or inside. i belong to the african litrrature association, whose ffounding principles included the freedom of african peoples everywhere. that principle is sacred. it also should apply to ukraine.

--that said, i agree that all parties should press for peace. i do not agree that the russians want peace and a nice anti-nazi ukraine, that's patently false. they want to expand their power. and they see nato as the obstacle, see biden as a weak opponent, and they use the language of nuclear weapons to intimidate the opponents.

-- i don't feel confident about reports affirming that the sanctions have no effect. i don't feel i know for sure what the true position of the west is in this conflict. people on this list affirm this or that; i am skeptical.
there seems to be a bottom line, for some. that is, the west is always imperialist and wrong in its actions, and thus russian opposition is basically needed and good.

i do not agree with any of it. there is much for serious discussion we could have on any of these points, but ideological shots do not really add up to anything.
i feel quite open on all these points. there is much we can say about the noxious motives of the great powers of our day, from the americans, the west, the russians and the chinese. but once we have arguments that seek only to justify pre-established opinions, they become fruitless.
--to make it simple, no matter how wrong the west was or is, in this or that circumstance, that's irrelevant when judging whether russia is in the wrong here. the case against nato expansionism, baiting the russian bear, igniting the conflict, is a legitimate one raised by conservatives and moderates like kissinger or friedman from the start. they are realpolitik analysts, not revolutionaries who care about the power of the people.
i align with those who want a just world order, not one governed by power. that means to oppose the power of dictators, as was done with the glorious arab spring, with african revolutions against imperialism, and the uprising of the people as in russia and france in the past. it baffles me why anyone devoted to african sovereignty and autonomy would not lean on those same principles in the case of this conflict as well.
ken





kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

Toyin Falola

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Jun 23, 2022, 6:52:36 AM6/23/22
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Peace is the key, but it won’t be a clean exercise…it won’t satisfy any of the parties.

I don’t do the sovereignty argument. I have never seen where it works well for weaker nations. I can give over a hundred examples where the argument on state sovereignty collapses, from all colonial conquest to global domination to globalization.

On paper, yes. In practice, no.

Indeed, what we call the “sovereign” can be the cumulation of elite interests.

Glad some conversation can continue.

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jun 23, 2022, 5:45:53 PM6/23/22
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Magnificent summation, Ken.

Toyin

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Femi Kolapo

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Jun 23, 2022, 5:46:16 PM6/23/22
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I wonder what insight social /  cognitive psychologists and anthropologists could provide us into the mystery of how/why the normal human mind works along the full range of crazy to smart, irrational to the rational, especially in crowd contexts and in crisis time.  

This war, like many others, sure reinforces the sentiment that life is defined more than by mere rationality; emotion often warp, sweep away, or re-conceptualize rationality.  Otherwise, how do we explain a weeping soldier father who has just lost his soldier son in the war resolutely heading right back to the warfront immediately the funeral of his son was over.  


Femi J. Kolapo  | 

  IMPROVE LIFE 

________  

A thought for the month:

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                "I am wise not because I know but because I know I don't know" - variant of a saying attributed to Socrates.

 


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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Biden and Ukraine
 

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Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Jun 23, 2022, 5:46:25 PM6/23/22
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Western Military Analysts, Including the CIA, Dazed and Confused

By Larry Johnson, June 22, 2022 [excerpt]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/57081.htm

Western Military Analysts, Including the CIA, Dazed and Confused. By Larry Johnson . June 22, 2022: Information Clearing House-- Are we witnessing the consequences of legalized marijuana causing contact highs among the intelligence community that surrounds Washington, DC? How else to explain the parade of political and military analysts now seized with angst over the growing gulf between what ...


One of the old intel codgers, Graham E. Fuller, who was Vice Chair of the National Intelligence Council at CIA back when I was an analyst,

 has it figured out. He wrote a piece sure to get him removed from woke Washington, DC parties:

The war in Ukraine has dragged on long enough now to reveal certain clear trajectories. First, two fundamental realities:


·         Putin is to be condemned for launching this war– as is virtually any leader who launches any war. 

       Putin can be termed a war criminal–in good company with George W. Bush who has killed vastly greater numbers than Putin.


·         Secondary condemnation belongs to the US (NATO) in deliberately provoking a war with Russia by implacably pushing

        its hostile military organization, despite Moscow’s repeated notifications about crossing red lines, right up to the gates of Russia. 

        This war did not have to be if Ukranian neutrality, á la Finland and Austria, had been accepted. Instead Washington has called

         for clear Russian defeat.


Contrary to Washington’s triumphalist pronouncements, Russia is winning the war, Ukraine has lost the war.  

Any longer-term damage to Russia is open to debate.

Sadly for Washington, nearly every single one of its expectations about this war are turning out to be incorrect. Indeed the West may come 

to look back at this moment as the final argument against following Washington’s quest for global dominance into ever newer and more 

dangerous and damaging confrontations with Eurasia. And most of the rest of the world–Latin America, India, the Middle East and Africa–

 find few national interests in this fundamentally American war against Russia





Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department, Central Connecticut State University
www.africahistory.net
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries
2014 Distinguished Research Excellence Award in African Studies
 University of Texas at Austin
2019   Distinguished Africanist Award                   
New York African Studies Association
Founding Co -Chair. Sengbe Pieh AMISTAD Committee
Founding Director, African Studies, CCSU
 

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Jun 23, 2022, 5:46:36 PM6/23/22
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Greetings dear group administrator Prof Toyin Falola, distinguished ladies and gentlemen of the USA-AFRICA  DIALOGUE GROUP.  Pls this is to share the announcement from the Tuckahoe Police Dept., NY regarding Amb. Eloho Otobo having gone missing since June 15th and to solicit for support towards the efforts to facilitate his safe return home. Kindly share the info further among your contacts to give the announcement the public attention required to ensure the authorities take all necessary steps to locate Amb Otobo and return him home safely. Pls keep him and his family in your prayers for a happy conclusion to the unfolding bewildering event. 

Thank you and God Bless you all,

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Jun 24, 2022, 12:11:43 PM6/24/22
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another view on the war. perhaps more informed
Evgenia Novozhenina / Reuters. But these are just the most visible tools of Putin’s system of control. Like many other authoritarians, the Russian president has also learned to exploit economic inequality to establish a firm base of support, leaning into the differences between what the Russian scholar Natalya Zubarevich calls “the four Russias.”


kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: 'Emeagwali, Gloria (History)' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
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