Middle
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gimp
Aug 16, 2010, 9:48:55 PM8/16/10
to UPA 11th edition rules
Interesting situation at the league game tonight.
Pull, OB, Middle.
Receiving team brings disc to 'near' middle (I'm sure he thought it
was middle). He hucks for a score.
Pulling team marker goes - "I should call a violation for not being at
the middle. But I won't".
They were only talking about a step or so but I've never heard a
contention about proper middle setup before.
Obviously the rule says middle but in an unlined field (especially no
brick marks) how many times would anyone more than randomly be set up
at the true middle?
As a corollary- (and I'm being a little lazy right now) what is the
exact positioning for bringing a disc inbounds. You can't be on the
line but 1 foot, 1 inch, 1 angstrom?
Gimp
Pull, OB, Middle.
Receiving team brings disc to 'near' middle (I'm sure he thought it
was middle). He hucks for a score.
Pulling team marker goes - "I should call a violation for not being at
the middle. But I won't".
They were only talking about a step or so but I've never heard a
contention about proper middle setup before.
Obviously the rule says middle but in an unlined field (especially no
brick marks) how many times would anyone more than randomly be set up
at the true middle?
As a corollary- (and I'm being a little lazy right now) what is the
exact positioning for bringing a disc inbounds. You can't be on the
line but 1 foot, 1 inch, 1 angstrom?
Gimp
Jon Bauman
Aug 16, 2010, 11:27:57 PM8/16/10
to upa_11th_ed...@googlegroups.com
Did the thrower touch the disc to the ground before throwing the huck? If so, the marker should have called "violation" immediately when the thrower put the disc into play at the wrong spot. This is the point of the ground touch requirement.
As far as how precise one's placement must be when putting a disc in play, I would say anything within a square foot of the exact point should be acceptable. To complain about anything less than that would be pretty silly.
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Colin
Aug 17, 2010, 12:42:29 AM8/17/10
to UPA 11th edition rules
My personal view (on the general topic, not directly in response to
gimp):
On the general issue of exactness in positioning, my view is that the
rules provide guidance on positioning to help players resume the
important part of the game -- playing the game. The rules help both
teams get a fairly good sense of where the disc is to be put into play
and the fine-tuning can and should be done by mutual agreement.
Whenever I am putting a live disc into play, I ask the marker as I'm
approaching the spot, "is this good?" or something similar. We agree,
I stop, touch the disc to the ground, and begin playing. This
procedure consistently works well on lined and unlined fields.
The fact of the matter is that we don't have geometrically perfect
fields and the determination of where a disc crossed the perimeter
line often involves a substantial margin of error. Players should
make an effort to reach agreement on where a disc is being put into
play to avoid confusion and unnecessary stoppages. Following this
procedure, the "wrong spot" travel call should be extremely rare.
Purposefully avoiding reaching agreement for the purpose of later
asserting disagreement with a travel call is cheating.
More specifically addressing the exact positioning of the pivot when
carrying the disc to the playing field proper and putting into
play... In my view, calling any travel for a misplacement of the
pivot within the length of a blade of grass is absurd, unless the
caller has inspected every painted and unpainted blade of grass at the
spot in question AND can confirm exactly which blades of grass the
pivot is touching.
The rules (XVI.A) say that "an infraction may only be called by a
player on the infracted team who recognizes that it has occurred." A
player on the allegedly infracted team who recognizes that an
infraction might have occurred is not allowed to call the alleged
infraction.
I think the Golden Rule is helpful:
Do unto others as you'd like a whole teamful of opponents to do unto
you and every single one of your teammates.
-Colin
gimp):
On the general issue of exactness in positioning, my view is that the
rules provide guidance on positioning to help players resume the
important part of the game -- playing the game. The rules help both
teams get a fairly good sense of where the disc is to be put into play
and the fine-tuning can and should be done by mutual agreement.
Whenever I am putting a live disc into play, I ask the marker as I'm
approaching the spot, "is this good?" or something similar. We agree,
I stop, touch the disc to the ground, and begin playing. This
procedure consistently works well on lined and unlined fields.
The fact of the matter is that we don't have geometrically perfect
fields and the determination of where a disc crossed the perimeter
line often involves a substantial margin of error. Players should
make an effort to reach agreement on where a disc is being put into
play to avoid confusion and unnecessary stoppages. Following this
procedure, the "wrong spot" travel call should be extremely rare.
Purposefully avoiding reaching agreement for the purpose of later
asserting disagreement with a travel call is cheating.
More specifically addressing the exact positioning of the pivot when
carrying the disc to the playing field proper and putting into
play... In my view, calling any travel for a misplacement of the
pivot within the length of a blade of grass is absurd, unless the
caller has inspected every painted and unpainted blade of grass at the
spot in question AND can confirm exactly which blades of grass the
pivot is touching.
The rules (XVI.A) say that "an infraction may only be called by a
player on the infracted team who recognizes that it has occurred." A
player on the allegedly infracted team who recognizes that an
infraction might have occurred is not allowed to call the alleged
infraction.
I think the Golden Rule is helpful:
Do unto others as you'd like a whole teamful of opponents to do unto
you and every single one of your teammates.
-Colin
Colin
Aug 17, 2010, 12:55:19 AM8/17/10
to UPA 11th edition rules
I'm pretty much in agreement with Jon here and especially in agreement
on the very strict application of the "immediately" requirement of
XVI.A in this case.
As for where to put the disc into play, I don't put an exact measure
on it, but for most situations as a marker, I am able to adjust to any
minor variations in the exact location of "the spot." If the thrower
is trying to catch me by surprise by putting a disc into play really
quickly, then he's asking for a travel call if we happen to disagree
on "the spot" by a margin that I find is significant and am unable to
adjust to.
I also would encourage any player picking up a disc on the ground to
make sure their pivot is the foot closest to the disc, so as to not
place the pivot 3 feet away from "the spot of the disc." This is
probably particularly relevant for lefties, but again, is most
relevant for players intending to pick up the disc and quickly make a
throw.
-Colin
On Aug 16, 11:27 pm, Jon Bauman <baum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Did the thrower touch the disc to the ground before throwing the huck? If
> so, the marker should have called "violation" immediately when the thrower
> put the disc into play at the wrong spot. This is the point of the ground
> touch requirement.
>
> As far as how precise one's placement must be when putting a disc in play, I
> would say anything within a square foot of the exact point should be
> acceptable. To complain about anything less than that would be pretty silly.
>
> > .
on the very strict application of the "immediately" requirement of
XVI.A in this case.
As for where to put the disc into play, I don't put an exact measure
on it, but for most situations as a marker, I am able to adjust to any
minor variations in the exact location of "the spot." If the thrower
is trying to catch me by surprise by putting a disc into play really
quickly, then he's asking for a travel call if we happen to disagree
on "the spot" by a margin that I find is significant and am unable to
adjust to.
I also would encourage any player picking up a disc on the ground to
make sure their pivot is the foot closest to the disc, so as to not
place the pivot 3 feet away from "the spot of the disc." This is
probably particularly relevant for lefties, but again, is most
relevant for players intending to pick up the disc and quickly make a
throw.
-Colin
On Aug 16, 11:27 pm, Jon Bauman <baum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Did the thrower touch the disc to the ground before throwing the huck? If
> so, the marker should have called "violation" immediately when the thrower
> put the disc into play at the wrong spot. This is the point of the ground
> touch requirement.
>
> As far as how precise one's placement must be when putting a disc in play, I
> would say anything within a square foot of the exact point should be
> acceptable. To complain about anything less than that would be pretty silly.
>
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:48 PM, gimp <gimpe...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Interesting situation at the league game tonight.
>
> > Pull, OB, Middle.
>
> > Receiving team brings disc to 'near' middle (I'm sure he thought it
> > was middle). He hucks for a score.
> > Pulling team marker goes - "I should call a violation for not being at
> > the middle. But I won't".
> > They were only talking about a step or so but I've never heard a
> > contention about proper middle setup before.
> > Obviously the rule says middle but in an unlined field (especially no
> > brick marks) how many times would anyone more than randomly be set up
> > at the true middle?
>
> > As a corollary- (and I'm being a little lazy right now) what is the
> > exact positioning for bringing a disc inbounds. You can't be on the
> > line but 1 foot, 1 inch, 1 angstrom?
>
> > Gimp
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "UPA 11th edition rules" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > upa_11th_ed...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > upa_11th_edition_...@googlegroups.com<upa_11th_edition_rules%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > Interesting situation at the league game tonight.
>
> > Pull, OB, Middle.
>
> > Receiving team brings disc to 'near' middle (I'm sure he thought it
> > was middle). He hucks for a score.
> > Pulling team marker goes - "I should call a violation for not being at
> > the middle. But I won't".
> > They were only talking about a step or so but I've never heard a
> > contention about proper middle setup before.
> > Obviously the rule says middle but in an unlined field (especially no
> > brick marks) how many times would anyone more than randomly be set up
> > at the true middle?
>
> > As a corollary- (and I'm being a little lazy right now) what is the
> > exact positioning for bringing a disc inbounds. You can't be on the
> > line but 1 foot, 1 inch, 1 angstrom?
>
> > Gimp
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "UPA 11th edition rules" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > upa_11th_ed...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
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