A QuickTime Issue

[Brian McMurray]

We've had iShell projects out and working with our customers for some time just fine.  Suddenly in the last couple of days we've received three phone calls from three clients in completely different areas of the country all having the same issue.

1.  They download and install our program - along with QuickTime.

2.  They start our program - and the iShell runtime tells them they need the latest version of QuickTime to continue (even though they just installed it).

3.  They go ahead and install the latest version of QuickTime from the web.

4.  They start our program again - and again it tells them they need the latest version to continue.

This is a continuous loop.  All users are on Windows.  My first thought was that something with the latest version of QT broke it (the one that just came out last week).  But we have a couple of test machines here with the latest version and they are working fine.  Completely uninstalling the old version and then re-installing the latest version also would not allow us to duplicate the problem here.

Has anyone seen this and dealt with it?

Is there anyway in the iShell runtime to bypass that QuickTime check altogether so that iShell won't check for that?  My installer runs a similar check that works fine and I don't really need the iShell check.  I believe everything would work just fine if I could get past the check but the launcher won't let them go on.  Anyway to make it so that the launcher never checks QuickTime at all - and just tries to start the project instead?

Any help would be great - this project is out to several thousand locations - most all of them are not having a problem that we're aware of but this just started popping up in different places and now I'm starting to wonder what's up.  In addition - these don't seem to be locked down environments with firewalls or anything - at least so they claim - it seems to just be small computers in offices with nothing else.

-Brian

Brian McMurray

Vice President

Opus Communications, Inc.

Training people like to take.

5700 Broadmoor St. • Suite 400

Mission, KS 66202

web http://opustraining.com

work# 913.825.1604

fax# 913.825.2689

[Tracy Valleau]

Obviously you can't changed the boot process on a pressed CD...but if
they can mount the disk, and go into the (yourname) data folder, they
can just doubleclick the (yourname) application and it should run, no?

lemme check this....

Tracy

[Tracy Valleau]

yes, that works for me.

they should go to my computer, right - click to get the contextual
menu; go to the cd; got to the data folder; and double click on the
program file.

hth

T

[Brian McMurray]

Hi Tracy,

Luckily this is not a CD - it's a downloaded program - so if I can get it fixed, I can issue an update and have my users download the new one to fix the problem.

-Brian

[Tracy Valleau]

unfortunately, I don't know of any way, other than what I've
suggested, to modify the first-run program (which checks for QT, and
then runs the actual app.) I can only suggest that you bypass it. You
could do that with a simple autorun.inf

ie

[autorun]
open="TechDemo.exe"
label=TechDemo

with your path inserted at the open= line

Other than that, I'm outta ideas.

hth

T

[Brian McMurray]

Hi Tracy,

No, actually I think your idea might be perfect here.  I can basically just redo an installer to overwrite this old way and launch it the new way instead.  This is a very good idea - and I'm working on it right now.

Just to help with clarification - does the LAUNCHER actually DO anything other than just check QuickTime and launch the runtime?  Is there anything else I'm losing by removing that functionality altogether from my runtime?  I can't remember but I'm pretty sure that's the only purpose it serves.

I'm still trying to figure out WHY this all of a sudden started happening - but at least if I can get it going then that will solve my immediate issues.  I wonder if the new version of QT somehow hurts the launcher?  Although it certainly doesn't happen on ALL systems so it's another one of those annoying and odd - "happens sometimes" problems.

Thanks for your help Tracy, I do think your solution might help get me past the initial issues here as long as the launcher isn't needed for anything else.

-Brian

[Tracy Valleau]

I can't say for sure. AFAIK, that's all it does.

[Brian McMurray]

Ok, here is some more information regarding the QuickTime issue.  I actually believe this is now a bug as I can now duplicate it - at least using my title.

Here is the key - on Windows XP Service Pack 3 - it HAS to be 3, it doesn't seem to happen with 2.  And the LATEST version of QT - which is 7.6.4 - the one that just came out - it doesn't happen with the other ones - the iShell LAUNCHER doesn't seem to recognize that QT has been installed.

If you have this configuration then it repeatedly tells you that QT is not installed - even if you've installed it it keeps saying it over and over again no matter how many times you install it.

Can anyone else confirm that this happens for them using those settings?

This does NOT seem to break the runtime as far as I can tell - so as of now the fix is to take the launcher out of the set up and launch the runtime instead - although obviously you lose the QT check functionality - which might be an issue for some.

Let me know if anyone else has this happen or if your set up like mine above works fine with the LAUNCHER (does NOT happen with the RUNTIME only - does not happen in the editor).

-Brian

[Brian McMurray]

I can also confirm that when I downgrade to QuickTime 7.6 on Windows XP Service Pack 3 - it fixes the issue.

So it definitely is QuickTime 7.6.4 and Service Pack 3 causing the problem as far as I can see in my tests.

-Brian

[Tracy Valleau]

I can confirm that too.

hth

Tracy

[Lloyd Sharp]

wow that's an odd and obscure issue...

Luckily using the main app instead of the launcher app always works
for bypassing that QT check.
I've used that in the past for diagnosing and solving issues with
previous versions of QT.

Are there any other display or functional issues that come up when you
use that latest QT 7.6.4 with XP SPK3 ?

lloyd

[Brian McMurray]

Yeah - lloyd the only problem is that all existing CDs using the launcher will not work going forward - and also one of our courses requires a special launcher to function - which also won't work.  So that's our problem there - we have other stuff that we can update on the fly as we need to.

I have not noticed any additional issues aside from the QT check issue.

-Brian

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

Brian,

This is an interesting discovery. I will look into it on Wednesday. The launcher app is quite simple... it just looks at the QT version and the min ver requirements set in your project file and compares them. So, something is going on with the new QT version string... my guess. Other than that, the launcher just runs the runtime app with the xp project file. Simple.

One possible way around this is to modify the project file to a lower level of QT... say QT 6 and see if that works?

Also, have you tried a simple 1 doc project that is totally separate from your project in issue? That is always a good test and what I will do Wed.

Regards,
Gil Anspacher, tribalmedia Support

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

A re-post from the other thread on this issue:

Brian,

This is an interesting discovery. I will look into it on Wednesday. The launcher app is quite simple... it just looks at the QT version and the min ver requirements set in your project file and compares them. So, something is going on with the new QT version string... my guess. Other than that, the launcher just runs the runtime app with the xp project file. Simple.

One possible way around this is to modify the project file to a lower level of QT... say QT 6 and see if that works?

Also, have you tried a simple 1 doc project that is totally separate from your project in issue? That is always a good test and what I will do Wed.

Regards,
Gil Anspacher, tribalmedia Support

[Brian McMurray]

Gil,

Since the issue dealt with the LAUNCHER, it never actually GOT to launching the document itself - so it seemed to do a 1 project doc was not particularly useful to me at the time - since the doc would never be executed unless the LAUNCHER was working.  So I haven't tried that yet.  It does do it on a variety of different projects for us and we can repeat it.

Also - Tracy confirmed it did it for him as well.

You should be able to duplicate the error using the settings in my email pretty easily.

Thanks!  And thanks for the info on the LAUNCHER - in one case I can definitely remove it - maybe even in both cases, I will work on that and see.

Also - I don't believe changing the QuickTime requirement back to an old requirement makes a difference as mine are already set to old requirements to avoid just this issue.  It's having the new version that causes it - not setting the requirement to be that new version.

Thanks Gil,

-Brian

[Lloyd Sharp]

Yeah I think this happened once in the distant past from my vague memory on one incremental version of QT. [I cant remember any specifics 6.01-2?]

I remember being confused at the time as it only happened on one OS platform though.

QT does not return the correct version information or data string and so the launcher gets confused.

Hopefully Apple will release an update quickly and accidentally fix this one...

lloyd

[Tracy Valleau]

Strikes me that there are two issues:

1) the process for reading the string does work, and then
2) if you got around that, it would try to install an older version
over the newer one.

(In fact, it appeared to me that the error dialog I got (I don't
remember it) more likely came from the quicktime installer itself,
than from the launcher.)

I'd suggest for the launcher, an error escape clause: if there's some
problem, offer to continue anyway or abort. That either overcomes the
issue or puts the onus on the user.

Tracy

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

OK, not good news... I can not replicate the issue.. in these situations, we want to create a break and not break scenario. I made a 1 doc project, set QT to 7.0 and web url (not local install). It worked in 7.6.2 and then upgraded to 7.6.4 and it worked fine. Using Kromo, the system reports QT version correctly and I assume this is the same call made by the launcher.

I tried QT ver at 6, 6.0, 7, 7.0, and 7.7. Only 7.7 gave a dialog to update as would be expected.

Win XP SP3, iShell 4.5r7, QT 7.6.4

Brian: Can you try a few things:

1 doc project to demo the issue.

If 1 doc is OK, then try creating a new project doc from scratch and see if that changes anything.

Regards,
Gil Anspacher, tribalmedia Support

[Brian McMurray]

Hi Gil,

I am swamped but will try to get some time to do this and let you know my results.  Thanks for checking on it - I can tell you that the problem DEFINITELY exists for many of our clients as we're getting tons of calls - but my new update fixes it by bypassing the launcher so we have a decent fix in place.

I would like to get to the bottom of it for our own sanity, though.  I'll let you know when I get time to check it.

-Brian

[Tracy Valleau]

As noted, I had it happen too... with an existing CD. Gil, if you'd
like me to send you one of the CDs, give me a mailing address.

Tracy

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

Can either of you try the 1 doc project and see if it still breaks. We need to break it to try to fix it.

Also, I assume both of the projects (Tracy and Brian) are 4.5, correct?

Regards,
Gil Anspacher, tribalmedia Support

[Brian McMurray]

Gil,

Thanks for your help and prompt responses as always.

Yes - using 4.5 - I will try to get to the 1 doc test next week.  If you need something quicker than that - I think Tracy was saying was that he has a project that he can send you that does it so you can see if it's broken on your machine - in other words - is it a machine configuration deal or is it a doc deal?

Also - if this does require a fix - I'd LOVE to get the "minimize" window issue fixed as well - which I reported a bit over a year ago and still have never heard a word about.  I keep hoping that will get rolled into some new rollout.  I gave tons and tons of info on that including the specific runtime and launcher versions that had the issue - we went back and forth on it and I did a bunch of tests that I sent to you guys - you guys took the info and I never heard about it again.  So I don't want to spin my wheels and do a ton of testing if it isn't going to result in anything again.

You can search the forum for the minimize window issue - basically if you minimize or maximize a window on the PC - I can't remember exactly what - the whole window disappears altogether - I wrote it all out in a previous email to this list.  And on MAC, when you open a standard window on LEOPARD, it doesn't open at the full size, it opens slightly smaller and  you have to drag it to make it bigger.

If you could check into that one too - and if there is a fix - knock both of those out in addition to this thing if it needs fixing too - that would be fantastic!  I'd also be happy if these were fixed in the iShell 5 release - that would also be fine since I've waited this long so far without too much issue.

Like I said - I will try to get on doing some of those tests for you next week and let you know what I find.  I do appreciate your help and you're doing a great job.  And I know that everyone there at TribalMedia means well - I just don't want to do a ton of tests and have nothing happen again - we all have a lot going on I'm sure.  If it leads to a fix then it is definitely worth my testing.

Thanks so much to everyone who helped me realize how to get around this for the time being though (by not using the Launcher) - I MUCH appreciate it.  More from me when I can test it more.

-Brian

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

Brian, Tracy and Others,

Here is a simple 1 doc project to test the Launcher Issue:

http://www.tribalmedia.com/sandbox/Launcher_Test.zip

This should be tested with Win XP SP3 and QT 7.6.4 to see if the launcher reports that quicktime needs to be updated.

Thanks,
Gil

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

Brian,

Understood on not wanting to run around if nothing gets done in the end. I will look back at the minimize issue and make suire it is on the list for ver 5.

Gil

[Tracy Valleau]

I took your app; changed the requested version of QT to 6.0; compiled
and burned it and launched it under XP, SP3, with QT 7.6.4

got

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

Matt is looking into the launcher issue. From the screenshot, it seems that we are not seeing any QT installed. Not a version issue, but a presence issue.

Gil

"This application requires QuickTime. Would you like to got to... etc
etc."

Tracy

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[Tracy Valleau]

Happy to help however I can. (Not a big issue for me, personally since
my product is now defunct...)

that said

So, Gil: are we -really- gonna see iShell 5? (I haven't got any work
for it... just curious. More out of nostalgia than anything...)

Tracy

[Matt Veenstra]

Hi everyone,

Below is a link for a new Launcher. This attempts a few strange fixes
for the 7.6.4 issues people are experiencing. From what we understand
basically QT now relies on a few environment variables to load. And
these can be wrong or missing in some cases.

http://www.tribalmedia.com/sandbox/iShell/Launcher_253.zip

README
This build of the Launcher creates a text file next to your Launcher
with debug information. If you have a machine that is showing the
problems with the launcher please run this, and then send us back the
.txt file created next to the Launcher. This should help us debug
this problem further.

NOTE
Do NOT use this launcher for a commercial release. If it resolves the
issue we need to remove the debug file generation, as you could get
really strange crash running from locked media like a DVD.

Cheers,
Matt

PS. I will get a note out to the list and let everyone know what is
happening at tribalmedia.

[Brian McMurray]

Hi Matt,

I have the problem on a machine.  The problem is still there with the launcher you sent - and it gives me the attached debug information.  Hope that helps.

[Matt Veenstra]

Brian and Denis,

Can you verify a few things for me.

What is installed at the path below on the machines at hand.
C:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTSystem\

The QuickTime installer has set up the system to find QT here. And
then it is not.

If QuickTime is not installed there can you look around to see where
it is installed?

Thx,
Matt

> -Brian

[Denis Williamson]

Matt,

I attach two images showing what's in both QTSystem and QuickTime
folders.

I'm using XP in Parallels on my Mac for these pictures, and I also use
XP in Bootcamp on another Mac, and both have the same problem with the
Launcher. So both my Windows platforms are run on Macs... in case that
might have anything to do with this problem.

Cheers
Denis Williamson

[Brian McMurray]

Matt,

I've attached 2 screenshots as well - one of the folder that you asked for "QuickTime\QTSystem\" and one of the folder where I found the QuicktimePlayer.exe in case you need it which is the same as above only in the "QuickTime\" folder.

I am running XP Service Pack 3 - mine is on a Dell not a MAC.  Worked fine until that latest version of QT that I complained about.

-Brian

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[Matt Veenstra]

Hi everyone,

My guess is this solves this problem.  Reading the release notes sounds like it will.

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL837

Can someone please install and test.  In this case you will need to point your users to version 7.6.5. 

Thx
Matt

--

[Tracy Valleau]

seems to have fixed it for me.

Tracy

On Nov 19, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Matt Veenstra wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>

[Tracy Valleau]

> So... are we good to go with the current launcher? That is, besides updating to QT 7.6.5 for Windows, does anything else need to change?

and

How's 5.0 ("end game") coming along?

Tracy


>

[Brian McMurray]

Matt,

I can confirm that this fixes the issue for me as well.  So the new version of QuickTime gets things back to normal.

-Brian

On Nov 19, 2009, at 10:27 AM, Matt Veenstra wrote:

Hi everyone,

My guess is this solves this problem.  Reading the release notes sounds like it will.

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL837

Can someone please install and test.  In this case you will need to point your users to version 7.6.5. 

Thx
Matt

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Brian McMurray <br...@opustraining.com> wrote:

Matt,

I've attached 2 screenshots as well - one of the folder that you asked for "QuickTime\QTSystem\" and one of the folder where I found the QuicktimePlayer.exe in case you need it which is the same as above only in the "QuickTime\" folder.

I am running XP Service Pack 3 - mine is on a Dell not a MAC.  Worked fine until that latest version of QT that I complained about.

-Brian

<quicktime.JPG><quicktime-system.JPG>

[Lloyd Sharp]

A big cheer!

Thought it sounded like an Apple issue or oversight rather than a launcher one.

It's happened before that way where you strictly follow Apple guidelines and then find they have done something odd with their own version of it - and then it's been resolved with a minor incremental QT release where they go back and do it properly.

lloyd

On 20/11/2009, at 3:27 AM, Matt Veenstra wrote:

Hi everyone,

[Denis Williamson]

Matt,

Yes, good news from here, too. QT 7.6.5 works with the Launcher on Windows.

Wish I woke up to a solution like this every morning.

Cheers,

Denis

H.K.

On 20 Nov 2009, at 12:27 AM, Matt Veenstra wrote:

Hi everyone,

[Matt Cassidy]

Is there a standalone version of this these days?? If so where do I find it. If I wanted to send the users online do I just put in 7.6.5 into the version field on the launcher??

[Tracy Valleau]

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Matt Cassidy wrote:

> Is there a standalone version of this these days?? If so where do I find it. If I wanted to send the users online do I just put in 7.6.5 into the version field on the launcher??
>

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> <pastedGraphic.pdf>

[Denis Williamson]

Hi,

Can anyone help me out of this mess I've got myself into?

I downloaded and tested the "Launcher 2.5.0.3", which was developed to
help solve the recent QT problem on Windows; this is the Launcher that
generates a text file. However, now that the QT problem has been
fixed by Apple, I find that this Launcher has got itself into my
"system", so whenever I burn a CD, which I do on my Mac, by the way, I
still get the 2.5.0.3 Launcher on the Windows side... which means
whenever I launch my program on Windows it generates a text file.

There was a warning note from Matt about this launcher (see below),
but I can't remember / just don't know how to get back to Launcher
2.5.0.0.

Can anyone help?

Denis

On 11 Nov 2009, at 3:39 AM, Matt Veenstra wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Below is a link for a new Launcher. This attempts a few strange fixes
> for the 7.6.4 issues people are experiencing. From what we understand
> basically QT now relies on a few environment variables to load. And
> these can be wrong or missing in some cases.
>
> http://www.tribalmedia.com/sandbox/iShell/Launcher_253.zip
>

[Lloyd Sharp]

hi Denis

everything is usually located in the directory

Tribalmedia>ishell 4.5>Burn resources

just make sure these are all the correct version...

or 

simply delete everything in there and install i shell again maybe?

lloyd

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_________________

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[Principal Design Officer - Information Services BOSNSW] lloyd...@bos.nsw.edu.au | www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au

[Digital Art & Design] www.chickenfish.cc - www.iris.fm - www.citroen.cc

__________________

[Denis Williamson]

Thanks for the help, Lloyd.

I reinstalled. Sometimes the mental block blocks everything :o)

Cheers

Denis

[Brian Moran]

If there's a link to the Windows standalone installer there, I don't see it. Anyone know if there is a standalone installer, and if so, where it is?

Thanks, Brian

[Gil Anspacher, Tribalmedia Support]

They have downloads in 2 places. Support/downloads is the place to look:

All QT:
http://support.apple.com/downloads/#quicktime

QT Win 7.6.5
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL837

Regards,
Gil Anspacher, tribalmedia Support

[Matt Cassidy]

Hi Brian, You need to go there on a PC to get the file.