Hypergraph as a visual TW table of contents
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kilucas
Oct 2, 2008, 4:15:20 AM10/2/08
to TiddlyWiki
I'd like to use hypergraph as a visual table of contents for my TW and
indeed the primary example delivered with the hypergraph package, is
of such a ToC. But when I ask it to display my TW which is only a core
TW with some 15 or 20 extra plugins, the map is overwhelmed by the
number of tiddlers and I can see very little that's useful. And that's
even when I set the hypergraph options only to show tiddlers (it
defaults to showing lots of other material) and before I add any
tiddlers that contain information content to my TW.
I looked for some way to tell hypergraph to centre on one specific
tiddler in the hope that I could set this say to MainMenu and, as long
as my content tiddlers were all linked from there somehow, I'd get a
map focused on content tiddlers. But I can't see how to set a non-
standard map centre.
I wondered if I could set hypergraph to show only tiddlers immediately
linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
I know I can display the map in a separate tiddler that can be
visually deeper than the standard map that appears at the top of the
page but even this doesn't solve the problem that I can't see my
tiddlers's names on the map currently.
So has anyone successfully used hypergraph to represent TW content and
if so how did you resolve the problem of having too much map content
to be readable please?
Many thanks for any insights you have.
Kevin
indeed the primary example delivered with the hypergraph package, is
of such a ToC. But when I ask it to display my TW which is only a core
TW with some 15 or 20 extra plugins, the map is overwhelmed by the
number of tiddlers and I can see very little that's useful. And that's
even when I set the hypergraph options only to show tiddlers (it
defaults to showing lots of other material) and before I add any
tiddlers that contain information content to my TW.
I looked for some way to tell hypergraph to centre on one specific
tiddler in the hope that I could set this say to MainMenu and, as long
as my content tiddlers were all linked from there somehow, I'd get a
map focused on content tiddlers. But I can't see how to set a non-
standard map centre.
I wondered if I could set hypergraph to show only tiddlers immediately
linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
I know I can display the map in a separate tiddler that can be
visually deeper than the standard map that appears at the top of the
page but even this doesn't solve the problem that I can't see my
tiddlers's names on the map currently.
So has anyone successfully used hypergraph to represent TW content and
if so how did you resolve the problem of having too much map content
to be readable please?
Many thanks for any insights you have.
Kevin
wolfgang
Oct 5, 2008, 12:29:46 PM10/5/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Kevin,
Your repeated unanswered questions about hypergraph made me wonder and
play around with it again.
> I'd like to use hypergraph as a visual table of contents for my TW and
> indeed the primary example delivered with the hypergraph package, is
> of such a ToC.
I already have difficulty updating the default hypergraph map.
Sometimes the 'save XML' works - but most of the time it simply
doesn't update.
> But when I ask it to display my TW which is only a core
> TW with some 15 or 20 extra plugins, the map is overwhelmed by the
> number of tiddlers and I can see very little that's useful. And that's
> even when I set the hypergraph options only to show tiddlers (it
> defaults to showing lots of other material) and before I add any
> tiddlers that contain information content to my TW.
>
Of all the hypergraph examples the orgApplet, with its colored
branches zooming in one after the other one - not as the main where
you have either all dates, or tags, or tiddlers or everything all at
once - gives the best oversight from a determinable central point from
where you can navigate in whichever direction.
> I looked for some way to tell hypergraph to centre on one specific
> tiddler in the hope that I could set this say to MainMenu and, as long
> as my content tiddlers were all linked from there somehow, I'd get a
> map focused on content tiddlers. But I can't see how to set a non-
> standard map centre.
>
> I wondered if I could set hypergraph to show only tiddlers immediately
> linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
> distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
>
The only way to tell orgApplet to show which tiddlers in what
connection or color is by opening orga-rub.xml in a text editor and
manually edit it. (it doesn't like special characters though, like for
example german umlaute)
That makes a beautiful sidemap to navigate for a webpage.
But for TiddlyWiki's main use as a personal note taking or gtd devise
this procedure is too circumstantial.
But even so, once a TiddlyWiki has grown to a certain size that can
also be said about other menus as sliders, popups or tabs.
Therefore I almost always use YourSearchPlugin, since it usually
presents the link where I wanted to go with only 2-3 letters and is
the fastest navigation this way.
Regards,
W.
Your repeated unanswered questions about hypergraph made me wonder and
play around with it again.
> I'd like to use hypergraph as a visual table of contents for my TW and
> indeed the primary example delivered with the hypergraph package, is
> of such a ToC.
Sometimes the 'save XML' works - but most of the time it simply
doesn't update.
> But when I ask it to display my TW which is only a core
> TW with some 15 or 20 extra plugins, the map is overwhelmed by the
> number of tiddlers and I can see very little that's useful. And that's
> even when I set the hypergraph options only to show tiddlers (it
> defaults to showing lots of other material) and before I add any
> tiddlers that contain information content to my TW.
>
branches zooming in one after the other one - not as the main where
you have either all dates, or tags, or tiddlers or everything all at
once - gives the best oversight from a determinable central point from
where you can navigate in whichever direction.
> I looked for some way to tell hypergraph to centre on one specific
> tiddler in the hope that I could set this say to MainMenu and, as long
> as my content tiddlers were all linked from there somehow, I'd get a
> map focused on content tiddlers. But I can't see how to set a non-
> standard map centre.
>
> I wondered if I could set hypergraph to show only tiddlers immediately
> linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
> distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
>
connection or color is by opening orga-rub.xml in a text editor and
manually edit it. (it doesn't like special characters though, like for
example german umlaute)
That makes a beautiful sidemap to navigate for a webpage.
But for TiddlyWiki's main use as a personal note taking or gtd devise
this procedure is too circumstantial.
But even so, once a TiddlyWiki has grown to a certain size that can
also be said about other menus as sliders, popups or tabs.
Therefore I almost always use YourSearchPlugin, since it usually
presents the link where I wanted to go with only 2-3 letters and is
the fastest navigation this way.
Regards,
W.
kilucas
Oct 5, 2008, 8:17:23 PM10/5/08
to TiddlyWiki
Wolfgnag
Yes, some of the small samples look like really nice ways to represent
some data. I'm not sure how I'd produce the supporting XML but would
explore that if I had a big need to produce maps of this sort in
general. But curently I don't and my only interest lay in generating
maps of the tiddlers in my TW.
I've not used it extensively yet so I've not yet encountered
experience where the Save XML option might not always generate the
right map. But obviously that'd be a problem even if I found a way to
cut the volume of map data down to make it readable. And I certainly
don't want to edit the XML by hand as my aim is to build the knowledge
within my TWs rather than have it static.
I'm beginning to wonder whether this would only provide a worthwhile
table of contents if it were driven more from tags, where the volume
of tiddlers assigned to individual tags might be small enough to be
displayable. But I don't yet know what my tag structures will look
like and what the volume of tiddlers assigned to tags will be.
Let's see if any deeper users of hypergraph have any ideas for
simplifying tiddler maps and, if not, I think I'll assume hypergraph
isn't the way to go as a table of contents for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
Kevin
Yes, some of the small samples look like really nice ways to represent
some data. I'm not sure how I'd produce the supporting XML but would
explore that if I had a big need to produce maps of this sort in
general. But curently I don't and my only interest lay in generating
maps of the tiddlers in my TW.
I've not used it extensively yet so I've not yet encountered
experience where the Save XML option might not always generate the
right map. But obviously that'd be a problem even if I found a way to
cut the volume of map data down to make it readable. And I certainly
don't want to edit the XML by hand as my aim is to build the knowledge
within my TWs rather than have it static.
I'm beginning to wonder whether this would only provide a worthwhile
table of contents if it were driven more from tags, where the volume
of tiddlers assigned to individual tags might be small enough to be
displayable. But I don't yet know what my tag structures will look
like and what the volume of tiddlers assigned to tags will be.
Let's see if any deeper users of hypergraph have any ideas for
simplifying tiddler maps and, if not, I think I'll assume hypergraph
isn't the way to go as a table of contents for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
Kevin
dawn ahukanna
Oct 6, 2008, 8:18:23 AM10/6/08
to Tiddl...@googlegroups.com
Hi Kilucas,
I'd like to use hypergraph as a visual table of contents for my TW and
indeed the primary example delivered with the hypergraph package, is
of such a ToC. But when I ask it to display my TW which is only a core
TW with some 15 or 20 extra plugins, the map is overwhelmed by the
number of tiddlers and I can see very little that's useful. And that's
even when I set the hypergraph options only to show tiddlers (it
defaults to showing lots of other material) and before I add any
tiddlers that contain information content to my TW.
Could you post a screen shot of the hypergraph generated? If you only have 15 tiddlers then only the tiddler branch with 15 tiddlers shouild be generated. However if you are using TagglyTagging these will also be presented as these are tiddlers for tags.
I looked for some way to tell hypergraph to centre on one specific
tiddler in the hope that I could set this say to MainMenu and, as long
as my content tiddlers were all linked from there somehow, I'd get a
map focused on content tiddlers. But I can't see how to set a non-
standard map centre.
The home node is set by the SiteUrl shadow tiddler. I note this as a new requirement.
I wondered if I could set hypergraph to show only tiddlers immediately
linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
It is something I'm looking at but when I develoed it, I was using hypergraph to nagivigate huge tiddlywiikis (>1000 tiddlers) . I note this as a new requirement.
I know I can display the map in a separate tiddler that can be
visually deeper than the standard map that appears at the top of the
page but even this doesn't solve the problem that I can't see my
tiddlers's names on the map currently.
Again, can you post a sample screenshot of the issue?
So has anyone successfully used hypergraph to represent TW content and
if so how did you resolve the problem of having too much map content
to be readable please?
Many thanks for any insights you have.
Kevin
dawn ahukanna
Oct 6, 2008, 8:39:36 AM10/6/08
to Tiddl...@googlegroups.com
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 5:29 PM, wolfgang <wolfga...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Kevin,
Your repeated unanswered questions about hypergraph made me wonder and
play around with it again.
I already have difficulty updating the default hypergraph map.
> I'd like to use hypergraph as a visual table of contents for my TW and
> indeed the primary example delivered with the hypergraph package, is
> of such a ToC.
Sometimes the 'save XML' works - but most of the time it simply
doesn't update.
What browser are you using? If you have security restrictions not allowing the browser to write to the target filesystem, this might explain this behaviour. Bascially, if you running Tiddly wiki as http: instead of file, you can't update the xml file.
Of all the hypergraph examples the orgApplet, with its colored
> But when I ask it to display my TW which is only a core
> TW with some 15 or 20 extra plugins, the map is overwhelmed by the
> number of tiddlers and I can see very little that's useful. And that's
> even when I set the hypergraph options only to show tiddlers (it
> defaults to showing lots of other material) and before I add any
> tiddlers that contain information content to my TW.
>
branches zooming in one after the other one - not as the main where
you have either all dates, or tags, or tiddlers or everything all at
once - gives the best oversight from a determinable central point from
where you can navigate in whichever direction.
Do you have a URL for this, did a quick check and couldn't find any reference to it.
The only way to tell orgApplet to show which tiddlers in what
> I looked for some way to tell hypergraph to centre on one specific
> tiddler in the hope that I could set this say to MainMenu and, as long
> as my content tiddlers were all linked from there somehow, I'd get a
> map focused on content tiddlers. But I can't see how to set a non-
> standard map centre.
>
> I wondered if I could set hypergraph to show only tiddlers immediately
> linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
> distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
>
connection or color is by opening orga-rub.xml in a text editor and
manually edit it. (it doesn't like special characters though, like for
example german umlaute)
That makes a beautiful sidemap to navigate for a webpage.
But for TiddlyWiki's main use as a personal note taking or gtd devise
this procedure is too circumstantial.
But even so, once a TiddlyWiki has grown to a certain size that can
also be said about other menus as sliders, popups or tabs.
Therefore I almost always use YourSearchPlugin, since it usually
presents the link where I wanted to go with only 2-3 letters and is
the fastest navigation this way.
Regards,
W.
wolfgang
Oct 6, 2008, 10:31:01 AM10/6/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Dawn,
> > I already have difficulty updating the default hypergraph map.
> > Sometimes the 'save XML' works - but most of the time it simply
> > doesn't update.
>
> What browser are you using? If you have security restrictions not allowing
> the browser to write to the target filesystem, this might explain this
> behaviour. Bascially, if you running Tiddly wiki as http: instead of file,
> you can't update the xml file.
>
I found now that all the time probably special characters didn't allow
me to save the XML. By searching and deleting all of them I finally
got it as far as being able to save the XML - but only if I leave out
the modifiers still. I use Firefox 2.0.0.17
> > Of all the hypergraph examples the orgApplet, with its colored
> > branches zooming in one after the other one - not as the main where
> > you have either all dates, or tags, or tiddlers or everything all at
> > once - gives the best oversight from a determinable central point from
> > where you can navigate in whichever direction.
>
> Do you have a URL for this, did a quick check and couldn't find any
> reference to it.
Just uploaded my hypergraph TW for the first time. Though it starts to
load it actually doesn't shows up - put makes my FF crush.
Do I have to change anything about the paths if I put it online?
The file structure there is the same as on my drive:
http://wolfi.110mb.com/hyperGraph.html
> > linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
> > distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
>
almost 1000 tiddlers. The XML grew 1.8 MB itself! Here's a screenshot:
http://110mb.com/hypergraph_.jpg
And here the link to the XML if you want to try this yourself:
http://wolfi.110mb.com/graphs/tiddlerMap_.xml
The difficulty with so many tiddlers, tags and hypergraph is, that if
I click for example into the tags field to get to see their names it
takes some seconds and a second click by guess till the names of some
tags become visible - but by then all other tags are out of sight and
one has to start again by centering the map.
>
> The home node is set by the SiteUrl shadow tiddler. I note this as a new
> requirement.
>
What would be needed is an option to set a specified tag as the home
note, and only include tags which are tagged with this tag and the
tiddlers tagged by them. Similar as for example TagsTreePlugin does:
http://visualtw.ouvaton.org/VisualTW.html#TagsTreePlugin
Regards,
W.
> > I already have difficulty updating the default hypergraph map.
> > Sometimes the 'save XML' works - but most of the time it simply
> > doesn't update.
>
> What browser are you using? If you have security restrictions not allowing
> the browser to write to the target filesystem, this might explain this
> behaviour. Bascially, if you running Tiddly wiki as http: instead of file,
> you can't update the xml file.
>
me to save the XML. By searching and deleting all of them I finally
got it as far as being able to save the XML - but only if I leave out
the modifiers still. I use Firefox 2.0.0.17
> > Of all the hypergraph examples the orgApplet, with its colored
> > branches zooming in one after the other one - not as the main where
> > you have either all dates, or tags, or tiddlers or everything all at
> > once - gives the best oversight from a determinable central point from
> > where you can navigate in whichever direction.
>
> Do you have a URL for this, did a quick check and couldn't find any
> reference to it.
load it actually doesn't shows up - put makes my FF crush.
Do I have to change anything about the paths if I put it online?
The file structure there is the same as on my drive:
http://wolfi.110mb.com/hyperGraph.html
> > linked from the centred tiddler or maybe that are up to two links of
> > distance from the centred tiddler but can't see an option to do this.
>
> It is something I'm looking at but when I develoed it, I was using
> hypergraph to nagivigate huge tiddlywiikis (>1000 tiddlers) . I note this as
> a new requirement.
>
I made a tiddlerMap of my 3.7 MB 'Changing Themes' TiddlyWiki with
> hypergraph to nagivigate huge tiddlywiikis (>1000 tiddlers) . I note this as
> a new requirement.
>
almost 1000 tiddlers. The XML grew 1.8 MB itself! Here's a screenshot:
http://110mb.com/hypergraph_.jpg
And here the link to the XML if you want to try this yourself:
http://wolfi.110mb.com/graphs/tiddlerMap_.xml
The difficulty with so many tiddlers, tags and hypergraph is, that if
I click for example into the tags field to get to see their names it
takes some seconds and a second click by guess till the names of some
tags become visible - but by then all other tags are out of sight and
one has to start again by centering the map.
>
> The home node is set by the SiteUrl shadow tiddler. I note this as a new
> requirement.
>
note, and only include tags which are tagged with this tag and the
tiddlers tagged by them. Similar as for example TagsTreePlugin does:
http://visualtw.ouvaton.org/VisualTW.html#TagsTreePlugin
Regards,
W.
wolfgang
Oct 6, 2008, 10:34:48 AM10/6/08
to TiddlyWiki
> I made a tiddlerMap of my 3.7 MB 'Changing Themes' TiddlyWiki with
> almost 1000 tiddlers. The XML grew 1.8 MB itself! Here's a screenshot:
>
> http://110mb.com/hypergraph_.jpg
>
Sorry, this is the correct link to the screenshot:
> almost 1000 tiddlers. The XML grew 1.8 MB itself! Here's a screenshot:
>
> http://110mb.com/hypergraph_.jpg
>
http://wolfi.110mb.com/hypergraph_.jpg
W.
kilucas
Oct 6, 2008, 3:36:59 PM10/6/08
to TiddlyWiki
Wolfgang
I still can't see your screenshot. Is the URL correct?
I have no online location to post a screenshot. Is there a way to post
one as an attachment in this group - I can't see a mechanism as I type
this - and are we permitted to do so? If so I can provide a
screenshot.
I know words are never as good but my graph looks really simple as the
options are set to show only tiddlers; A "home" node in the middle, a
"Tiddlers" node to the right of it, and then a spray of blue lines to
the right of that with no visible nodes. I don't know how to check the
number of tiddlers in the TW directly but a SaveAs reports 118 saved.
So I'm guessing that spray contains 118 lines and that the map can't
try to display 118 nodes on the ends of them.
I don't claim to know where all the tiddlers come from as I've no
content tiddlers yet - just two or three test tiddlers and my plugins,
of which I count approx 30 in the backstage list.
I see more information on alternative central nodes and the potential
role of tags in another thread and will explore those ideas shortly.
Thanks very much for the feedback and ideas.
Kevin
I still can't see your screenshot. Is the URL correct?
I have no online location to post a screenshot. Is there a way to post
one as an attachment in this group - I can't see a mechanism as I type
this - and are we permitted to do so? If so I can provide a
screenshot.
I know words are never as good but my graph looks really simple as the
options are set to show only tiddlers; A "home" node in the middle, a
"Tiddlers" node to the right of it, and then a spray of blue lines to
the right of that with no visible nodes. I don't know how to check the
number of tiddlers in the TW directly but a SaveAs reports 118 saved.
So I'm guessing that spray contains 118 lines and that the map can't
try to display 118 nodes on the ends of them.
I don't claim to know where all the tiddlers come from as I've no
content tiddlers yet - just two or three test tiddlers and my plugins,
of which I count approx 30 in the backstage list.
I see more information on alternative central nodes and the potential
role of tags in another thread and will explore those ideas shortly.
Thanks very much for the feedback and ideas.
Kevin
wolfgang
Oct 6, 2008, 3:56:52 PM10/6/08
to TiddlyWiki
> Wolfgang
>
> I still can't see your screenshot. Is the URL correct?
>
the url is correct, but I found out only now that this (free) host
>
> I still can't see your screenshot. Is the URL correct?
>
doesn't allows pictures linked from elsewhere. However, you still can
copy the url and paste it into a new tab and click 'enter', and it
will still show.
W.
wolfgang
Oct 6, 2008, 4:09:57 PM10/6/08
to TiddlyWiki
Or you can rightclick the link to the XML and choose 'save as', then
rename it to tiddlerMap.xml - place it in your graphs folder - and see
it as real.
dawn ahukanna
Oct 6, 2008, 6:55:38 PM10/6/08
to Tiddl...@googlegroups.com
I had a look at the XML file and there are 6516 nodes(tiddlers) not just 18. you have a bunch of styles, templates and a large amount of tiddlers starting tagRef0...
At this rate you are probably exceeding the limits of what Java can load into the browser. I'll do some investigation.
Dawn.
wolfgang
Oct 6, 2008, 8:36:39 PM10/6/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Dawn,
> > I made a tiddlerMap of my 3.7 MB 'Changing Themes' TiddlyWiki with
> > almost 1000 tiddlers. The XML grew 1.8 MB itself!
> >
such a tag.
6000 nodes maybe, but actual tiddlers are less then a thousand. I
guess your different number comes from nodes being created in each
category: dates, tiddlers and tags. Since I rarely tag a tiddler only
once, under this category even multiple times.
The XML is from an updated version of the following TiddlyWiki, with
some updates to it (reduced by 500 tiddlers):
http://change.tiddlyspot.com/download (because of its size better to
download first)
> At this rate you are probably exceeding the limits of what Java can load
> into the browser. I'll do some investigation.
> Dawn.
>
I actually wouldn't need all categories at all, only ''one'' which is
navigable alone would perfectly do. I only added as many as I could -
to see which of them is the easiest to navigate.
> The difficulty with so many tiddlers, tags and hypergraph is, that if
> I click for example into the tags field to get to see their names it
> takes some seconds and a second click by guess till the names of some
> tags become visible - but by then all other tags are out of sight and
> one has to start again by centering the map.
>
It's clearly the layout of the dates category which gives the most
oversight. It starts with only 4 branches (thanks to TiddlyWikie's
young age ;-), goes off in 12 further branches each year, and than
there is a limited number of days each month.
Such a structure makes it easy to know from the beginning in which
direction to go.
With tiddler's category you don't see their names unless you click
somewhere in the periphery, then you can read a dozens of them and if
the one you wanted isn't there you're only left to center the graph
and try your luck somewhere else in the periphery again. This category
only helps to find your way in a TW of maybe 50, maybe 100 tiddlers at
the most. Like it does with shadowed tiddlers.
Tags category therefore should be the way to go. However, again you
can't see the actual tag labels unless you click in the periphery and
might get lost just as with tiddlers again. (in comparison, if one
uses a TagCloud one instantly sees all tag labels and with only one
click one can see all tiddlers of that tag in a popup).
Too bad the modifier category - the one I actually wanted for my
comprehensive collection of themes from so many sources - is the one I
still didn't got working.
>
> What would be needed is an option to set a specified tag as the home
> note, and only include tags which are tagged with this tag and the
> tiddlers tagged by them. Similar as for example TagsTreePlugin does:
> http://visualtw.ouvaton.org/VisualTW.html#TagsTreePlugin
... with a structure like the date category - but by being able to
indicate the tag for the home node. Which then connects to those tags
it tags, and so on to how many levels one would like - with the
respective tiddlers branching off - is the only way and category I
could think of to make good use of hypergraph in a TiddlyWiki with
more than a hundred tiddlers and as a tiddler's sitemap.
Beside, of course, creating wonderful mind maps manually.
By the way, I haven't found a way yet to connect one group of nodes
with an other group - other than from the center node. Is there a way
to do this in hypergraph?
Best wishes,
W.
> > I made a tiddlerMap of my 3.7 MB 'Changing Themes' TiddlyWiki with
> > almost 1000 tiddlers. The XML grew 1.8 MB itself!
> >
> I had a look at the XML file and there are 6516 nodes(tiddlers) not just 18.
> you have a bunch of styles, templates and a large amount of tiddlers
> starting tagRef0...
118 was Kevin's TW! - Don't know what TagRef().. means? - I don't use
> you have a bunch of styles, templates and a large amount of tiddlers
> starting tagRef0...
such a tag.
6000 nodes maybe, but actual tiddlers are less then a thousand. I
guess your different number comes from nodes being created in each
category: dates, tiddlers and tags. Since I rarely tag a tiddler only
once, under this category even multiple times.
The XML is from an updated version of the following TiddlyWiki, with
some updates to it (reduced by 500 tiddlers):
http://change.tiddlyspot.com/download (because of its size better to
download first)
> At this rate you are probably exceeding the limits of what Java can load
> into the browser. I'll do some investigation.
> Dawn.
>
navigable alone would perfectly do. I only added as many as I could -
to see which of them is the easiest to navigate.
> The difficulty with so many tiddlers, tags and hypergraph is, that if
> I click for example into the tags field to get to see their names it
> takes some seconds and a second click by guess till the names of some
> tags become visible - but by then all other tags are out of sight and
> one has to start again by centering the map.
>
oversight. It starts with only 4 branches (thanks to TiddlyWikie's
young age ;-), goes off in 12 further branches each year, and than
there is a limited number of days each month.
Such a structure makes it easy to know from the beginning in which
direction to go.
With tiddler's category you don't see their names unless you click
somewhere in the periphery, then you can read a dozens of them and if
the one you wanted isn't there you're only left to center the graph
and try your luck somewhere else in the periphery again. This category
only helps to find your way in a TW of maybe 50, maybe 100 tiddlers at
the most. Like it does with shadowed tiddlers.
Tags category therefore should be the way to go. However, again you
can't see the actual tag labels unless you click in the periphery and
might get lost just as with tiddlers again. (in comparison, if one
uses a TagCloud one instantly sees all tag labels and with only one
click one can see all tiddlers of that tag in a popup).
Too bad the modifier category - the one I actually wanted for my
comprehensive collection of themes from so many sources - is the one I
still didn't got working.
>
> What would be needed is an option to set a specified tag as the home
> note, and only include tags which are tagged with this tag and the
> tiddlers tagged by them. Similar as for example TagsTreePlugin does:
> http://visualtw.ouvaton.org/VisualTW.html#TagsTreePlugin
indicate the tag for the home node. Which then connects to those tags
it tags, and so on to how many levels one would like - with the
respective tiddlers branching off - is the only way and category I
could think of to make good use of hypergraph in a TiddlyWiki with
more than a hundred tiddlers and as a tiddler's sitemap.
Beside, of course, creating wonderful mind maps manually.
By the way, I haven't found a way yet to connect one group of nodes
with an other group - other than from the center node. Is there a way
to do this in hypergraph?
Best wishes,
W.
wolfgang
Oct 9, 2008, 3:41:09 AM10/9/08
to TiddlyWiki
> ... with a structure like the date category - but by being able to
> indicate the tag for the home node. Which then connects to those tags
> it tags, and so on to how many levels one would like - with the
> respective tiddlers branching off - is the only way and category I
> could think of to make good use of hypergraph in a TiddlyWiki with
> more than a hundred tiddlers and as a tiddler's sitemap.
>
A half automated way to create such maps I could think of would be
> indicate the tag for the home node. Which then connects to those tags
> it tags, and so on to how many levels one would like - with the
> respective tiddlers branching off - is the only way and category I
> could think of to make good use of hypergraph in a TiddlyWiki with
> more than a hundred tiddlers and as a tiddler's sitemap.
>
using a copy of your TiddlyWiki, take TiddlerTweakerPlugin to batch re-
date all tags to a year, month and day respectively (which gives 3
levels) - and the edge tiddlers of one node to the day of a specific
month.
A XML created this way would only have to be edited by changing the
tag nodes (now different dates) to their real names and prettyfied a
bit. Compared to having to manually write the whole of it, that is a
real simplification.
> Just uploaded my hypergraph TW for the first time. Though it starts to
> load it actually doesn't shows up - put makes my FF crush.
> Do I have to change anything about the paths if I put it online?
> The file structure there is the same as on my drive
>
Regards,
W.
rakugo
Oct 10, 2008, 11:14:14 AM10/10/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hey..
Have you considered a different approach?
I'm currently working on a plugin which just visualises tiddler
relationships as you uncover them which I feel could work perfectly as
a table of contents, plus it doesn't require any additional files -
all you need to do is include the appropriate tiddlers.
Please take a look and let me know what you think: http://tiddlytagmindmap.tiddlyspot.com/
and of course let me know how I can improve it..
Jon
Have you considered a different approach?
I'm currently working on a plugin which just visualises tiddler
relationships as you uncover them which I feel could work perfectly as
a table of contents, plus it doesn't require any additional files -
all you need to do is include the appropriate tiddlers.
Please take a look and let me know what you think: http://tiddlytagmindmap.tiddlyspot.com/
and of course let me know how I can improve it..
Jon
wolfgang
Oct 11, 2008, 8:35:19 AM10/11/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Jon,
> and of course let me know how I can improve it..
.. thanks for having an open ear for suggestions. Though reading your
own 'to do list' at http://preview.tinyurl.com/5yb26c it seems you're
pretty aware what still needs to be done to make tiddlytagmindmap
useful. - However, having it side by side compared with a more matured
hypergraph does show its real shortcomings very well.
The most obvious:
TagMindMap shows you the relation of an opened tiddler to immediate
tiddlers really nice - but it doesn't show an index or map of the
whole content, or the position in relation to such. And increasing the
dept of relation from 1 to 2 doesn't solves this, as it than gets
truly confusing.
For example, just tried to find your tiddler 'Work to be done
(tiddlytagmindmap)' again - and it took me much more time than it
would have with the ordinary tabs of a TW of the same size of content.
So it doesn't replace the navigation of a TabTags or TagCloud yet at
all.
And it's much harder for me than with hypergraph to have a doable
solution for this equal shortcoming (but maybe we just haven't found
the proper way to tag yet?) Nevertheless, necessary addition in this
direction I would consider:
# the ability to customize its size: it wasn't possible for me to give
it a 100% width (or any other value) in the stylesheet to use more
screen space, since the nodes wouldn't synchronize with the position
of the cycles. Only by hacking the original plugin code was it
possible to give it some wider fixed value.
# vertical size customize-ability: even more urgent because if an
immediate related tiddler is on a cycle above or below it isn't
visible.
# drag ability: this would help much more than increasing its vertical
size, which is limited if one also wants to see tiddlers.
# the ability to place it where and how one wants: first thing I did,
hide the slider button and toggle its div with a tiddlytools toggle
bookmarklet. I really like your idea of combining it with
TiddlyDesktop, but there it would be much more useful in a tiddler
than in the background, since only this tiddler would have to be
brought to the foreground, and not all others minimized for having the
overview.
# zoom peripheral cycles gap and nodes out.
# customize-able connectors between nodes: less obtrusive and than
maybe dept 2 would be much more useful.
# don't combine its distribution with a custom TW like Mptw, but
stripe it to its essentials. Otherwise you make it harder to setup for
newcomers to TW.
... I think that already enough for now ;-) and that TagglyTagMindMap
will become a really useful contribution.
Cheers,
W.
> and of course let me know how I can improve it..
own 'to do list' at http://preview.tinyurl.com/5yb26c it seems you're
pretty aware what still needs to be done to make tiddlytagmindmap
useful. - However, having it side by side compared with a more matured
hypergraph does show its real shortcomings very well.
The most obvious:
TagMindMap shows you the relation of an opened tiddler to immediate
tiddlers really nice - but it doesn't show an index or map of the
whole content, or the position in relation to such. And increasing the
dept of relation from 1 to 2 doesn't solves this, as it than gets
truly confusing.
For example, just tried to find your tiddler 'Work to be done
(tiddlytagmindmap)' again - and it took me much more time than it
would have with the ordinary tabs of a TW of the same size of content.
So it doesn't replace the navigation of a TabTags or TagCloud yet at
all.
And it's much harder for me than with hypergraph to have a doable
solution for this equal shortcoming (but maybe we just haven't found
the proper way to tag yet?) Nevertheless, necessary addition in this
direction I would consider:
# the ability to customize its size: it wasn't possible for me to give
it a 100% width (or any other value) in the stylesheet to use more
screen space, since the nodes wouldn't synchronize with the position
of the cycles. Only by hacking the original plugin code was it
possible to give it some wider fixed value.
# vertical size customize-ability: even more urgent because if an
immediate related tiddler is on a cycle above or below it isn't
visible.
# drag ability: this would help much more than increasing its vertical
size, which is limited if one also wants to see tiddlers.
# the ability to place it where and how one wants: first thing I did,
hide the slider button and toggle its div with a tiddlytools toggle
bookmarklet. I really like your idea of combining it with
TiddlyDesktop, but there it would be much more useful in a tiddler
than in the background, since only this tiddler would have to be
brought to the foreground, and not all others minimized for having the
overview.
# zoom peripheral cycles gap and nodes out.
# customize-able connectors between nodes: less obtrusive and than
maybe dept 2 would be much more useful.
# don't combine its distribution with a custom TW like Mptw, but
stripe it to its essentials. Otherwise you make it harder to setup for
newcomers to TW.
... I think that already enough for now ;-) and that TagglyTagMindMap
will become a really useful contribution.
Cheers,
W.
rakugo
Oct 13, 2008, 4:05:18 AM10/13/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Wolfgang,
Thanks for all the comments.
I complete aree with comments on drag, zooming and customising. All
these things I am hoping to rectify with a massive code rewrite, I am
hoping to package everything up to minimise the amount of installation
required and also aiming to separate preferences so that they are not
hard coded and thus the TagMindMap is easier to tweek.
Regarding displaying the whole content like hypergraph.. the big issue
here is performance. Although possible I have seen it break big
Tiddlywikis and alot here needs to be ironed out, but I agree this
would be the ideal. I guess I came from it from a different angle, as
what I tend to do is search for a tiddler/tag first then "borrow"
through the TagMindMap to find the tiddler I am looking for (so it
sits on top of the search bit). I will rethink this from your
perspective and see if I can find an easier solution..
Thanks for all the feedback.. much appreciated :)
Jon
Thanks for all the comments.
I complete aree with comments on drag, zooming and customising. All
these things I am hoping to rectify with a massive code rewrite, I am
hoping to package everything up to minimise the amount of installation
required and also aiming to separate preferences so that they are not
hard coded and thus the TagMindMap is easier to tweek.
Regarding displaying the whole content like hypergraph.. the big issue
here is performance. Although possible I have seen it break big
Tiddlywikis and alot here needs to be ironed out, but I agree this
would be the ideal. I guess I came from it from a different angle, as
what I tend to do is search for a tiddler/tag first then "borrow"
through the TagMindMap to find the tiddler I am looking for (so it
sits on top of the search bit). I will rethink this from your
perspective and see if I can find an easier solution..
Thanks for all the feedback.. much appreciated :)
Jon
On Oct 11, 1:35 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jon,
>
> > and of course let me know how I can improve it..
>
> .. thanks for having an open ear for suggestions. Though reading your
> own 'to do list' athttp://preview.tinyurl.com/5yb26cit seems you're
> Hi Jon,
>
> > and of course let me know how I can improve it..
>
> .. thanks for having an open ear for suggestions. Though reading your
wolfgang
Oct 13, 2008, 7:27:04 AM10/13/08
to TiddlyWiki
Thanks for your response,
> Regarding displaying the whole content like hypergraph.. the big issue
> here is performance. Although possible I have seen it break big
> Tiddlywikis and alot here needs to be ironed out, but I agree this
> would be the ideal.
Showing the whole content like hypergraph isn't that useful there
either (in my opinion). That's why I came up with the suggestion to
create only a update-able tag/tiddler sitemap with a structure similar
to the date sitemap already there now.
> what I tend to do is search for a tiddler/tag first then "borrow"
> through the TagMindMap to find the tiddler I am looking for (so it
> sits on top of the search bit). I will rethink this from your
> perspective and see if I can find an easier solution..
>
As already mentioned further above, YourSearch practically takes up
most of my navigation too (where it isn't installed with a
bookmarklet). But the really nice thing with TagMindMap - something
hypergraph wont be ever able to due to its external XML - is how it
instantly synchronizes your position in relation to immediately
related tiddlers in the map.
The ease how a total overview is derived with TabTags - and even more
so with a TagCloud, gives me the idea that displaying a second map
similar to a tag cloud beside the main tag map - with the current tag
position highlighted - could maybe solve this difficulty here?
> Thanks for all the feedback.. much appreciated :)
Pleasure,
W.
> Regarding displaying the whole content like hypergraph.. the big issue
> here is performance. Although possible I have seen it break big
> Tiddlywikis and alot here needs to be ironed out, but I agree this
> would be the ideal.
either (in my opinion). That's why I came up with the suggestion to
create only a update-able tag/tiddler sitemap with a structure similar
to the date sitemap already there now.
> what I tend to do is search for a tiddler/tag first then "borrow"
> through the TagMindMap to find the tiddler I am looking for (so it
> sits on top of the search bit). I will rethink this from your
> perspective and see if I can find an easier solution..
>
most of my navigation too (where it isn't installed with a
bookmarklet). But the really nice thing with TagMindMap - something
hypergraph wont be ever able to due to its external XML - is how it
instantly synchronizes your position in relation to immediately
related tiddlers in the map.
The ease how a total overview is derived with TabTags - and even more
so with a TagCloud, gives me the idea that displaying a second map
similar to a tag cloud beside the main tag map - with the current tag
position highlighted - could maybe solve this difficulty here?
> Thanks for all the feedback.. much appreciated :)
W.
wolfgang
Oct 14, 2008, 3:37:34 AM10/14/08
to TiddlyWiki
>
> ... I really like your idea of combining it with TiddlyDesktop,
completely. If installed alongside - the tiddlers are fixated to a
central display column one above the other and aren't drag or re-
sizable anymore. Couldn't make anything out within the css which is
causing this.
Similar story with hypergraph and TiddlyDesktop installed side by
side. Though the main hypergraph div below the header does work, but
opening a hypergraph in a tiddler makes Firefox crash.
W.
http://tiddlytagmindmap.tiddlyspot.com/
http://wolfi.110mb.com/tiddlyDesktop.html
http://project.dahukanna.net/tiddlywiki/twextensions.htm
> ... I really like your idea of combining it with TiddlyDesktop,
> but there it would be much more useful in a tiddler than in
> the background, since only this tiddler would have to be
> brought to the foreground, and not all others minimized for
> having the overview.
>
Too bad TagMindMapPlugin is disabling TiddlyDesktop functionality
> the background, since only this tiddler would have to be
> brought to the foreground, and not all others minimized for
> having the overview.
>
completely. If installed alongside - the tiddlers are fixated to a
central display column one above the other and aren't drag or re-
sizable anymore. Couldn't make anything out within the css which is
causing this.
Similar story with hypergraph and TiddlyDesktop installed side by
side. Though the main hypergraph div below the header does work, but
opening a hypergraph in a tiddler makes Firefox crash.
W.
http://tiddlytagmindmap.tiddlyspot.com/
http://wolfi.110mb.com/tiddlyDesktop.html
http://project.dahukanna.net/tiddlywiki/twextensions.htm
Mario
Oct 14, 2008, 7:28:49 AM10/14/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi everyone-working-on-this,
I just wanted to cheer you all on. Ever since finding TiddlyWiki I've
felt that it has real potential to help with some of the work I do and
I've been especially interested in the development of these
visualization techniques. Thank you for all the effort you are putting
into this!
These animated graphs that stay synced with the content of the
tiddlywiki are great. Does anybody know if this stuff will work on a
hosted tiddlywiki at tiddlyspot?
-Mario
On Oct 13, 4:05 am, rakugo <jdlrob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Wolfgang,
> Thanks for all the comments.
> I complete aree with comments on drag, zooming and customising. All
> these things I am hoping to rectify with a massive code rewrite, I am
> hoping to package everything up to minimise the amount of installation
> required and also aiming to separate preferences so that they are not
> hard coded and thus the TagMindMap is easier to tweek.
>
> Regarding displaying the whole content like hypergraph.. the big issue
> here is performance. Although possible I have seen it break big
> Tiddlywikis and alot here needs to be ironed out, but I agree this
> would be the ideal. I guess I came from it from a different angle, as
> what I tend to do is search for a tiddler/tag first then "borrow"
> through the TagMindMap to find the tiddler I am looking for (so it
> sits on top of the search bit). I will rethink this from your
> perspective and see if I can find an easier solution..
>
> Thanks for all the feedback.. much appreciated :)
> Jon
> On Oct 11, 1:35 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jon,
>
> > > and of course let me know how I can improve it..
>
> > .. thanks for having an open ear for suggestions. Though reading your
> > own 'to do list' athttp://preview.tinyurl.com/5yb26citseems you're
I just wanted to cheer you all on. Ever since finding TiddlyWiki I've
felt that it has real potential to help with some of the work I do and
I've been especially interested in the development of these
visualization techniques. Thank you for all the effort you are putting
into this!
These animated graphs that stay synced with the content of the
tiddlywiki are great. Does anybody know if this stuff will work on a
hosted tiddlywiki at tiddlyspot?
-Mario
On Oct 13, 4:05 am, rakugo <jdlrob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Wolfgang,
> Thanks for all the comments.
> I complete aree with comments on drag, zooming and customising. All
> these things I am hoping to rectify with a massive code rewrite, I am
> hoping to package everything up to minimise the amount of installation
> required and also aiming to separate preferences so that they are not
> hard coded and thus the TagMindMap is easier to tweek.
>
> Regarding displaying the whole content like hypergraph.. the big issue
> here is performance. Although possible I have seen it break big
> Tiddlywikis and alot here needs to be ironed out, but I agree this
> would be the ideal. I guess I came from it from a different angle, as
> what I tend to do is search for a tiddler/tag first then "borrow"
> through the TagMindMap to find the tiddler I am looking for (so it
> sits on top of the search bit). I will rethink this from your
> perspective and see if I can find an easier solution..
>
> Thanks for all the feedback.. much appreciated :)
> Jon
> On Oct 11, 1:35 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jon,
>
> > > and of course let me know how I can improve it..
>
> > .. thanks for having an open ear for suggestions. Though reading your
wolfgang
Oct 14, 2008, 8:24:34 AM10/14/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Mario,
> These animated graphs that stay synced with the content of the
> tiddlywiki are great. Does anybody know if this stuff will work on a
> hosted tiddlywiki at tiddlyspot?
>
The bad news: hypergraph needs additional sub folders for the actual
application which isn't possible to upload to Tiddlyspot yet. And
further above you might have read about my difficulties getting
hypergraph running on a regular server:
> > Just uploaded my hypergraph TW for the first time. Though it starts to
> > load it actually doesn't shows up - put makes my FF crush.
> > Do I have to change anything about the paths if I put it online?
> > The file structure there is the same as on my drive
>
> What mistakes could I have made that it isn't working via http for me?
>
For which I haven't got an answer yet.
..
The good news: TagMindMap work fully selfcontained in a regular
TiddlyWiki and though I haven't tried it yet I'm pretty sure it would
work at TiddlySpot.
However, some days ago I heard of this new service: http://www.getdropbox.com.
Which allows you to work on your TiddlyWiki stuff in a local folder on
your drive, and all content of this folder gets automatically updated
to an online account (upto 2 GB for free). Beside private folders -
which can be used to sync stuff between different computers and
operating systems - it also has a public folder which can be accessed
by everyone with direct links.
And there I found my example hypergraph - which I wouldn't got working
on a regular server - works without fault.
So I deleted it where it wouldn't work anyway as expected:
> The XML grew 1.8 MB itself! Here's a screenshot:
>
> http://wolfi.110mb.com/hypergraph_.jpg
The screenshot:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/hypergraph_.jpg
An example hypergraph with a mind map I once created with FreeMind and
the 1.8 MB tiddlerMap hypergraph (which, by the way, would be reduced
to 350 kB if it only contained a structure like the usual date format
I suggested further above!).
The TiddlerMap loaded in a tiddler from the top menu naturally takes
some time to load:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/hyperGraph.html
Please let me know if that doesn't show for anyone.
W.
> These animated graphs that stay synced with the content of the
> tiddlywiki are great. Does anybody know if this stuff will work on a
> hosted tiddlywiki at tiddlyspot?
>
application which isn't possible to upload to Tiddlyspot yet. And
further above you might have read about my difficulties getting
hypergraph running on a regular server:
> > Just uploaded my hypergraph TW for the first time. Though it starts to
> > load it actually doesn't shows up - put makes my FF crush.
> > Do I have to change anything about the paths if I put it online?
> > The file structure there is the same as on my drive
>
> What mistakes could I have made that it isn't working via http for me?
>
..
The good news: TagMindMap work fully selfcontained in a regular
TiddlyWiki and though I haven't tried it yet I'm pretty sure it would
work at TiddlySpot.
However, some days ago I heard of this new service: http://www.getdropbox.com.
Which allows you to work on your TiddlyWiki stuff in a local folder on
your drive, and all content of this folder gets automatically updated
to an online account (upto 2 GB for free). Beside private folders -
which can be used to sync stuff between different computers and
operating systems - it also has a public folder which can be accessed
by everyone with direct links.
And there I found my example hypergraph - which I wouldn't got working
on a regular server - works without fault.
So I deleted it where it wouldn't work anyway as expected:
> The XML grew 1.8 MB itself! Here's a screenshot:
>
>
> And here the link to the XML if you want to try this yourself:http://wolfi.110mb.com/graphs/tiddlerMap_.xml
>
- and have that now in my public dropbox folder:
> And here the link to the XML if you want to try this yourself:http://wolfi.110mb.com/graphs/tiddlerMap_.xml
>
The screenshot:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/hypergraph_.jpg
An example hypergraph with a mind map I once created with FreeMind and
the 1.8 MB tiddlerMap hypergraph (which, by the way, would be reduced
to 350 kB if it only contained a structure like the usual date format
I suggested further above!).
The TiddlerMap loaded in a tiddler from the top menu naturally takes
some time to load:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/hyperGraph.html
Please let me know if that doesn't show for anyone.
W.
wolfgang
Oct 15, 2008, 2:20:07 AM10/15/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Jon and all,
> > these things I am hoping to rectify with a massive code rewrite,
> >
I came with TiddlyDesktop and TagMindMap installed alongside:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyHyperGraph.html
As you'll mention - I had to disable TagglyTagMindMap plugins
completely (hypergraph too). To my surprise I found that hypergraph is
showing in its main div even when disabled! Though opening a graph in
a tiddler invariably crushs FF, therefore I disabled the topmenu
buttons which would open such tiddlers with graphs.
This brings me to a similar question Kevin already asked: How to make
tiddlers more visible than hypergraph?
And here an interesting version of TagglyTagMindMap and hypergraph
alongside (the latter first has to be toggled on from the top menu
'Graph' button). Though again I had to disable hypergraph (and
TiddlyDesktop here) - but this version makes the differences between
these two visualization options very clear:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/GraphTagMap.html
Regards,
W.
> > these things I am hoping to rectify with a massive code rewrite,
> >
> Too bad TagMindMapPlugin is disabling TiddlyDesktop functionality
> completely.
Maybe better tackle this issue with this rewrite already? Here how far
> completely.
I came with TiddlyDesktop and TagMindMap installed alongside:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyHyperGraph.html
As you'll mention - I had to disable TagglyTagMindMap plugins
completely (hypergraph too). To my surprise I found that hypergraph is
showing in its main div even when disabled! Though opening a graph in
a tiddler invariably crushs FF, therefore I disabled the topmenu
buttons which would open such tiddlers with graphs.
This brings me to a similar question Kevin already asked: How to make
tiddlers more visible than hypergraph?
And here an interesting version of TagglyTagMindMap and hypergraph
alongside (the latter first has to be toggled on from the top menu
'Graph' button). Though again I had to disable hypergraph (and
TiddlyDesktop here) - but this version makes the differences between
these two visualization options very clear:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/GraphTagMap.html
Regards,
W.
rakugo
Oct 23, 2008, 11:57:54 AM10/23/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Wolfgang,
I've cleaned up my code significantly and made some massive changes
including allowing panning/zooming of the graph, loading all nodes at
start up, installation.
Check it out at tiddlytagmindmap.tiddlyspot.com
I'm hoping this addresses quite a few of the differences between
hypergraph and the early version of the plugin.
Of course all feedback well received :)
I've cleaned up my code significantly and made some massive changes
including allowing panning/zooming of the graph, loading all nodes at
start up, installation.
Check it out at tiddlytagmindmap.tiddlyspot.com
I'm hoping this addresses quite a few of the differences between
hypergraph and the early version of the plugin.
Of course all feedback well received :)
wolfgang
Oct 24, 2008, 1:04:59 PM10/24/08
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Jon,
Geat! This has indeed been a massive rewrite and you've got much done
in such a short time:
> # don't combine its distribution with a custom TW
> # drag ability
overall it has been seriously improved in each respect and is now much
easier to handle.
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyHyperGraph.html
>
> As you'll mention - I had to disable TagglyTagMindMap plugins
> completely (hypergraph too).
It even works with TiddlyDesktop now! (it doesn't makes its floating
tiddlers fixated to a central column one above the other anymore)
And - as I gather from the parallel thread - it would now only be a
small step to create a macro for displaying a tagmindmap in a tiddler.
> I can quite easily get the macro callable from a tiddler however the
> problem arises if you call the macro again elsewhere. If you are
> planning to have more than 1 mind map on the screen how would you
> expect this to work? If you opened a tiddler - would it update both
> graphs or just the last one? If I can understand better the use case
> I'm sure I can come up with something.
Guess updating the last one would suffice for most cases.
There only remain the following last two point to tackle. Where -
together with the peripheral zoom out - maybe also lighter color
shades would already help:
> # zoom peripheral cycles gap and nodes out.
>
> # customize-able connectors between nodes: less obtrusive and than
> maybe dept 2 would be much more useful.
.
> And here an interesting version of TagglyTagMindMap and hypergraph
> alongside (the latter first has to be toggled on from the top menu
> 'Graph' button). Though again I had to disable hypergraph (and
> TiddlyDesktop here) - but this version makes the differences between
> these two visualization options very clear:
>
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/GraphTagMap.html
>
-
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyTagmapGraph.html
:-)
Cheers,
W.
Geat! This has indeed been a massive rewrite and you've got much done
in such a short time:
> # don't combine its distribution with a custom TW
> # the ability to customize its size
> # vertical size customize-ability
> # drag ability
> # the ability to place it where and how one wants
- though some of these new abilities still need some polishing,
overall it has been seriously improved in each respect and is now much
easier to handle.
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyHyperGraph.html
>
> As you'll mention - I had to disable TagglyTagMindMap plugins
> completely (hypergraph too).
tiddlers fixated to a central column one above the other anymore)
And - as I gather from the parallel thread - it would now only be a
small step to create a macro for displaying a tagmindmap in a tiddler.
> I can quite easily get the macro callable from a tiddler however the
> problem arises if you call the macro again elsewhere. If you are
> planning to have more than 1 mind map on the screen how would you
> expect this to work? If you opened a tiddler - would it update both
> graphs or just the last one? If I can understand better the use case
> I'm sure I can come up with something.
Guess updating the last one would suffice for most cases.
There only remain the following last two point to tackle. Where -
together with the peripheral zoom out - maybe also lighter color
shades would already help:
> # zoom peripheral cycles gap and nodes out.
>
> # customize-able connectors between nodes: less obtrusive and than
> maybe dept 2 would be much more useful.
> And here an interesting version of TagglyTagMindMap and hypergraph
> alongside (the latter first has to be toggled on from the top menu
> 'Graph' button). Though again I had to disable hypergraph (and
> TiddlyDesktop here) - but this version makes the differences between
> these two visualization options very clear:
>
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/GraphTagMap.html
>
> Maybe better tackle this issue with this rewrite already? Here how far
> I came with TiddlyDesktop and TagMindMap installed alongside:
>
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyHyperGraph.html
Now both examples can be seen in only one TW:
> I came with TiddlyDesktop and TagMindMap installed alongside:
>
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyHyperGraph.html
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/241006/TiddlyTagmapGraph.html
:-)
Cheers,
W.
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