Why can't others see my TW?

[Dave Gifford]

A couple people said they couldn't see my tiddlywiki

http://www.giffmex.org/twfortherestofus.html

They are using Firefox 1.5.0.8 and Opera, but when they call it up it
says "done," but no content on the
screen.

I am using Firefox and IE 7 and it shows up fine. Any ideas? I have a
SplashScreen plugin. Could that be affecting it?

I made some improvements to this tutorial and I would like it to be
accessible to all. Thanks for your help,

Dave G

[Star1948]

Hi Dave G

It is not a Firefox 1.5.0.8 problem as it displays fine on my XP SP2
system. It also works fine using IE 7.0.5730.11. One possibility is
that some of your users my not have Java enabled. I have seen the
"done" message on IE 5 systems but not IE 6 and above.

Star1948

[Dave Gifford]

Thanks Star. If you see the thread about the entry-level tutorial you
will see their comments. They said they have viewed other TWs fine. One
said he used Firefox 1.5.0.8 and the other said Opera. Both had the
same problem.

[MJ]

I am using Mac OSX 10.3.9. Using Firefox 1.5.0.8, I too cannot view
your site. However, with Safari 1.3.1 (v312.3) I am able. Yours is
not the only site where I have this issue.

[MJ]

By the way, if you are still using a SplashScreen Plugin, I did not see
it.

[MJ]

Sorry, I did see the splash screen using Safari after clearing my cache.

[ubume2]

Hi Dave,
I could not see your wiki on line using Firefox 1.5.0.8. browser says
done but couldn t see it. Java is enabled and I have been able to see
other TW's on the web.

I used the Konquerer browser and brought it up fine. I saved it to my
desktop. Then I could load it up on Firefox and view it. Hope that
helps
Jerry

[Edgar Javison]

I can see the wiki, including the splash screen and am using Firefox 1.5.0.8.

--
Edgar Javison

We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can only fly by embracing one another.  ~ Luciano de Crescenzo

[MJ]

I also saved the file (from Safari) locally and then was able to bring
it up using Firefox.

[Chris Lawley]

Works for me too on both Opera and Firefox.

FWIW, I was hoping it would fail as I also run a Windows popUp
blocker "Proxomitron" which has a viewer for the assorted messages
passed between the browser and the web server. Not much use whilst
the thing is working tho'

chris :-)
(recovering from a serious hard drive crash :(

[David Shaw]

Just to muddy the waters even more, having previously reported that I
cannot see this TW in either Firefox or Opera, I now can. Don't ask. I
don't know what I did - if, indeed, I did anything :-S

David SHaw

[Dave Gifford]

Boy you guys, this is something the TW bigwigs should look into. There
must be some setting in Firefox and others other than Java that impedes
viewing, because I have been using Firefox 1.5.0.8 and it was fine.

[Star1948]

Hi Dave

Perhaps the problem is associated with cookies and how people have set
up their web browsers to handle them from trusted and untrusted sites.
I just checked the web address of your site in Firefox and there are
two cookies associated with the site. I would have expected Firefox to
inform users that cookies had been blocked but perhaps this is
suppressed by default.

But why can some people see the site now when they couldn't previously?

It would be useful to know what is required from a Web Browser to
support TW running properly.

I had this problem on a geology course site recently. Some people just
received the done message, and nothing was displayed. I checked the
site out using an old Toshiba Libretto running IE 5. The Java script
for TW had been downloaded OK, hence the DONE message. I assumed it was
either a problem with the version of IE users were using, or possibly
that the HTMLArea editor I used needed some files installed locally. To
overcome the problem I switched to a backend solution based on
ccTiddly.

Star1948

[David Shaw]

You might have something there. Now you mention it, I do recall
clearing my Firefox cache/cookies/browsing history a couple of days
ago. Before that, I couldn't see the tutorial, now I can.

Firefox has never informed me that a site wants to set a cookie or that
a cookie has been blocked.

Hmm.....

David Shaw

[Star1948]

Hi Dave

As far as I can see native TW only relies on HTML, CSS and JavaScript
but some plugins may require access to cookies or other browser
features. (see WikiMatrix compare
http://www.wikimatrix.org/show/TiddlyWiki).

Firefox supports almost all of the Cascading Style Sheet specification
as does IE so provided there is no way of blocking or overiding the use
of a TW CSS the html should at least display. (see
http://www.webdevout.net/browser_support_css.php for details).

Could it be that the site does not display if people set default fonts
in their browsers to something TW does not support? I have both IE and
Firefox set to allow web pages to choose the fonts they want to use,
but if an overide was set up to a font set TW or Java couldn't display
perhaps you would get BLANK. Bit far fetched, but I'm running out of
ideas.

Star1948

[Daniel Baird]

Dave, if you're using a TW layout switcher, is it possible some users
have a cookie that is selecting a non-existent layout? That might
break the bit that assembles the PageTemplate.

;D

--
Daniel Baird
http://tiddlyspot.com (free, effortless TiddlyWiki hosting)
http://danielbaird.com (TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
Things That Suck)

[Jeremy Ruston]

Answering one question, TiddlyWiki on Internet Explorer only works
properly on IE 6 and above - and that, I'm afraid, is just down to the
general hideousness of earlier versions of IE

On 12/11/06, Star1948 <Starfigh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>

--
Jeremy Ruston
mailto:jer...@osmosoft.com
http://www.tiddlywiki.com

[ubume2]

Okay. more info. In my situation using Firefox 1.5.0.8 I cannot "see"
your URL when opening the browser. Once the browser is opened, I need
to go in and clear the cache. I can then access your URL and see it.
As long as my browser is kept open I can go back and see your URL.
Once I close the browser, and then restart I need to clear the cache,
and then no problem.

I am using a Linux OS, but I believe I have had the same problem in
Windows XP using either Firefox or IE.
I am a newbie, but I don't believe my privacy or security settings are
an issue. Your cookies seem to set properly.

Jerry

I am enjoying TW and use it as my local home page.

[Dave Gifford]

Here's what I know, in response to ideas and questions above:
1. I don't use any special fonts that I'm aware of, just Verdana and
Arial. In other TWs I use Palatino linotype to render greek, but not in
the tutorial we are discussing.
2. I only have two plugins in the tutorial: Legacy strike through
plugin, which I think is part of the basic TW from Jeremy's site, and
the SplashScreen plugin. Would either of those have cookies?
3. When I cleared my cookies from Firefox and opened my tutorial, I got
one cookie, txtMainTab. I don't know much about cookies. Is that what
is the problem? Is there a way to eliminate it?
4. I'm not sure what a layout switcher is. My tutorial doesn't have its
own layout. It is basically a copy of Jeremy's version with some color
changes and maybe a few non-essential tiddlers deleted. On some of the
TWs I make I just take the StyleSheetLayout and change a bit of code so
that the mainmenu is wider and the tiddlers show white while the
background is another color. But on the tutorial I don't even think I
did that.
5. Like a couple of you, I was using Firefox 1.5.0.8 to view it just
fine, just as I used the same program to edit the TW.

Sorry that's about all I can tell you for the moment. Hope we can get
this resolved. The whole idea of the tutorial is to make TW easier, not
harder, for new people. But if it is plagued with some problem right at
startup.... Anyone willing to check under its hood?

[Saq Imtiaz]

Perhaps one of the people that cant see the TW, could try the following:
Right click on the link to the url, save the file to your computer and then open it from there.
If the problem persists at least we will have ruled out server related problems.

The SplashScreenPlugin does NOT use cookies. You can always try disabling both plugins and test to see if that helps. (Note that in the case of the SplashScreen, to uninstall it you will also need to edit the Markup tiddler)

[David Shaw]

OK. I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.8 and - originally - could not see the
tutorial TW.

After clearing the cache, I could load OK.

Closing and reopening Firefox restored the problem, but a cache clear
worked OK again.

A local copy of the tutorial opens just fine, with or without a cache
clear, but trying to open the remote copy after opening the local -
without a cache clear - did not work.

I did not clear any other private data - including cookies - just the
cache.

Hope that helps,

David Shaw

[Star1948]

Hi Dave

Try repeating your experiment but just delete the cookie rather than
flushing the cache, i.e. leave the site.html file on the system. Why?
Well cookies can be used to store context used by the java script,
which is picked up the next time you access the site. After clearing
the cache and accessing the site check that the cookie contains:
txtMainTab
Timeline
www.giffmex.org/
plus 5 digit strings followed by star (*)

When you re-access the site extra informtion seems to be appended to
the cookie, namely:
txtMoreTab
Missing
www.giffmex.org/
plus a slightly different 5 digit strings and a star (*)

Perhaps, and it is a big perhaps, the second time you access the site
the java script stops bacause the txtMoreTab tiddler is missing?!

Try using the standard upgrade procedure to replace the core systems
tiddlers just in case there is some incompatibility somewhere.

Star1948

[Star1948]

Afterthought: a corrupt cookie might explain the instability problem
when you reaccess the site but not users who cannot access the site the
first time. I thought it might be because these users had cookies
blocked but I just tried flushing the cache and files, and blocking
cookies. A splash screen is displayed indicating Java is loading, then
a cookie prompt is displayed, and the site displays even if you block
the cookies.

I haven't got a clue what is going on. How about a virus checker
blocking the java script from running?

Star1948

[Dave Gifford]

http://wh0rd.org/cookie-monster-in-rehab.png

[David Shaw]

OK, more experimentation results - clearing just cookies has no effect,
likewise clearing just authenticated sessions or just the browsing
history (no real surprise there :-) ) - the only thing that cures
this problem is clearing the cache (although my version of Firefox
automatically clears Saved Form Information and Download History as
well, without giving me the option to stop this).

Also, I don't have AV running (I have a Linux box and so there's no
really pressing need - at the moment - for me to run AV, before anyone
freaks out at me for being so irresponsible :-) ) so it's unlikely
to be that - although I am behind a hardware firewall, don't know if
that would have any effect?

David Shaw

[David Shaw]

And as a check against it being the way the Ubuntu team implemented
Firefox, I downloaded another copy from an alternate source - exactly
the same symptoms.

David Shaw

[Jeremy Ruston]

All very strange. Here's another thing to try: choose Tools/Page Info,
what do you see on the first tab? In particular, what is the file
length? What do you see when if you choose View/View Source?

Cheers

Jeremy.

[David Shaw]

Apologies for the late response - Real Life (TM) has been getting in the
way just lately. Anyway, when I do as requested, the Tools/Page Info gives

Address : http://www.giffmex.org/twfortherestofus.html
Type : text/html
Render mode : Standards compliance mode
Cache source : Disc cache
Encoding : ISO-8859-1
Size : 2.22KB

Looking at the page source, there's nothing at all, not even blank space
but, interestingly, if I do a File/Save As and open the file in a text
editor, I get 38 lines of text, up to the end of the copyright/licence
notice, followed by a </head></html> tag pair.

David Shaw

[Daniel Baird]

Is giffmex.org hosted by DreamHost? At tiddlyspot (on DreamHost
servers) we had some weird blank page things going on, I think
eventually we disabled gzipping and it went away.

;D

[Dave Gifford]

Hey,

Dreamhost is indeed my server. Let me know what I can do, and how, and
I will do it.

Giffmex

[Daniel Baird]

On 12/17/06, Dave Gifford <gi...@giffmex.org> wrote:
> Dreamhost is indeed my server. Let me know what I can do, and how, and
> I will do it.

Try adding this to your .htaccess file:

<IfModule mod_gzip.c>
mod_gzip_on No
</IfModule>

That will turn off gzipping, if it's on.. no idea why that solves the
problem (if indeed it does).

Cheers
;Daniel

[Dave Gifford]

Okay, I'm not sure if I did it right, maybe you guys could try it and
let me know here or by e-mail if it worked.

On Dec 17, 6:04 pm, "Daniel Baird" <danielba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/17/06, Dave Gifford <g...@giffmex.org> wrote:
>
> > Dreamhost is indeed my server. Let me know what I can do, and how, and

> > I will do it.Try adding this to your .htaccess file:

>
> <IfModule mod_gzip.c>
> mod_gzip_on No
> </IfModule>
>
> That will turn off gzipping, if it's on.. no idea why that solves the
> problem (if indeed it does).
>
> Cheers
> ;Daniel
>
> --

> Daniel Bairdhttp://tiddlyspot.com(free, effortless TiddlyWiki hosting)http://danielbaird.com(TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
> Things That Suck)

[David Shaw]

Semi-success. I can no longer replicate the problem, but I had to
'clear private data' one last time before it fixed itself, so I'm not
sure if people totally fresh to the tutorial will be able to see it or not.

David Shaw