Is it possible to list all tiddlers as a list of permalinks?

[kev]

Google still won't index my TWs even though my Joomla sites are
properly indexed. One way I have thought of is to include a list of
all my tiddlers in my Joomla sites as a news item. I can create a nice
index using TagglyTags or the view all macro but the links are not
actual standard hyperlinks which means that site visitors cannot click
on a tiddler title and go directly to the correct TW site.

For example, in my worldwideweb.html TW I can click on CSS Menu and go
to the relevant tiddlers. The same link cut and pasted into an html
file in Joomla goes nowhere. What is needed is the permalink? There is
the SEO plugin but that exports the entire file when all I want is the
link only.

I've read in the forums but I haven't found that particular method
yet.

=================
http://www.keithrichardson.co.uk (wiki based home page)
http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/princewiki/worldwideweb.html
(everything about computing)
http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/ (Lifestyles/Entertainment
portal)
http://www.elearningskillcentre.co.uk (e-learning portal)
http://www.elearningandwriting.co.uk/ (writer's site)
http://www.greenpolitics.co.uk (polemic, personal)

[Ken Girard]

Write the link as http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/princewiki/worldwideweb.html#CSS%20Menu
and it should work from any website or document, and take them right
to the CSS Menu tiddler.

The links inside a TW will just show up as 'javascript:;' which means
nothing to a spider.

Ken Girard

[schilke]

> One way I have thought of is to include a list of
> all my tiddlers in my Joomla sites as a news item

probably this one helps with the issue:
"SEO TiddlyWiki Plugin"
http://www.superphysique.net/#%5B%5BSEO%20TiddlyWiki%20Plugin%5D%5D

HTH
schilke

[Eric Shulman]

> Google still won't index my TWs even though my Joomla sites are
> properly indexed. One way I have thought of is to include a list of
> all my tiddlers in my Joomla sites as a news item. I can create a nice
> index using TagglyTags or the view all macro but the links are not
> actual standard hyperlinks which means that site visitors cannot click

Using http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#InlineJavascriptPlugin, put the
following code into a regular tiddler (i.e., NOT a systemConfig plugin
tiddler)

<script>
var out=""
var tids=store.getTiddlers("title","excludeLists");
for (var t=0; t<tids.length; t++)
out+=document.location.href
+"#"+String.encodeTiddlyLink(tids[t].title)+"\n";
return out;
</script>

HTH
-e

[wolfgang]

> <script>
> var out=""
> var tids=store.getTiddlers("title","excludeLists");
> for (var t=0; t<tids.length; t++)
> out+=document.location.href
> +"#"+String.encodeTiddlyLink(tids[t].title)+"\n";
> return out;
> </script>

Genial, what a powerful script. However, it doesn't return spaces in
tiddler titles click-able, for example:

file:///C:/Desktop/new.html#[[06 12 21]]

- would only call the tiddler:

file:///C:/Desktop/new.html#[[06

- which doesn't exist!

I tried to replace the spaces with "%20", but that still didn't return
the particular tiddler.

Whle SEOTiddlyWikiPlugin returns an URL-list, in which empty spaces
are replaces with "-".

W.

[wolfgang]

Just checked how
http://www.tiddlywikihandbuch.de/tiddlywikihandbuch.html#PermaTOC was
doing that.

He simply didn't used spaces in tiddler titles, and special characters
at the end of the url - like "ü" - are left out too.

[kev]

Yes, an almost perfect solution - IF your tiddler titles are written
the wiki way - with no spaces. For example I get:

file:///F:/JSAS/http_root/www/wikis/princewiki213/worldwideweb.html#[[301
Redirect]].

The square brackets are not in the original title and the link as it
is is no good. I guess TW does that to make them conform to the wiki
way?

So is there a further tweak to your script to permalink a tiddler that
has spaces in its title (most of mine do). It would be sooo brilliant
if there is! The reason for not using a wiki heading is of course
because no-one is going to deliberately search for 301Redirect - one
of the main downsides to wiki labels.

The fact that I can only use the script offline and get file reference
urls is not so important because I can just do a find and replace to
create the absolute url format.

On Aug 13, 2:52 pm, Eric Shulman <elsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Google still won't index my TWs even though my Joomla sites are
> > properly indexed. One way I have thought of is to include a list of
> > all my tiddlers in my Joomla sites as a news item. I can create a nice
> > index using TagglyTags or the view all macro but the links are not
> > actual standard hyperlinks which means that site visitors cannot click
>

> Usinghttp://www.TiddlyTools.com/#InlineJavascriptPlugin, put the

[kev]

Correction and good news for me!!

If I do a find and replace and replace
file:///F:/JSAS/http_root/www/wikis/princewiki/worldwideweb.html#[[Basic
Joomla template structure]] with
http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/princewiki/worldwideweb.html#[[Basic
Joomla template structure]] the url does work as a permalink. The
browser parses the gaps to
http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/princewiki/worldwideweb.html#[[Basic%20Joomla%20template%20structure]].

So the only thing wrong with the script is that it stops short at the
first space. However, since I can't edit online (at least not yet
until I decide to use certain plugins) it does not matter because a
simple search and replace creates a useable permalink.

Now I can include the sitelist in an article in Joomal and the links
should get indexed by Google and my Tiddlywikis can become "live"
instead of uselessly sitting there with their content unindexed. I
don't know how some other well-knownonline TWs are indexed - perhaps
because they have been there a long time? Or perhaps because they have
been linked to by other sites such as D.elicious? Enough so to get
Google probing further?

Thanks Eric!

[kev]

Another correction - solve one thing, find another problem!

If I paste the links into Dreamweaver, of course it only automatically
recognises the part of the url up to the first space which means that
I would have to manually correct each one unless I can find a program
that will parse the links correctly! back to square one. It's not the
script, it's the html conventions I guess.

[Eric Shulman]

updated script:
* added encodeURIComponent() to convert spaces (and other special
chars) into their equivalent %nn codes
* get URL from SiteUrl tiddler (if present), otherwise fallback to
current document location

<script>
var out=""
var tids=store.getTiddlers("title","excludeLists");

for (var t=0; t<tids.length; t++) {
var url=store.getTiddlerText("SiteUrl");
if (!url) url=document.location.href;
var
permalink=encodeURIComponent(String.encodeTiddlyLink(tids[t].title));
out+=url+"#"+permalink+"\n";
return out;
</script>

HTH,
-e

[wolfgang]

Thanks for getting that going so fast. However, one } seems to be
missing. And if I add it before </script> it only returns the url of
the very first tiddler.

Regards,

W.

[Eric Shulman]

On Aug 15, 4:29 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for getting that going so fast. However, one } seems to be
> missing. And if I add it before </script> it only returns the url of
> the very first tiddler.

oops!

There should be an } AFTER the line that starts "out+=..." and BEFORE
the line with "return out"... like this:

...

out+=url+"#"+permalink+"\n";
}
return out;
</script>

-e

[wolfgang]

Thanks again, Eric.

:-)

[kev]

Excellent stuff. That works:

<script>
var out=""
var tids=store.getTiddlers("title","excludeLists");
for (var t=0; t<tids.length; t++) {
var url=store.getTiddlerText("SiteUrl");
if (!url) url=document.location.href;
var
permalink=encodeURIComponent(String.encodeTiddlyLink(tids[t].title));

out+=url+"#"+permalink+"\n";
}
return out;
</script>

At least there is half a chance that Google will follow the links.
(Google is the real problem, not TW. We are all chasing after this
spider that makes life difficult for everyone - it should just spider
a single url like Yahoo does from its own webmaster service.)

(I tried the SEO plugin but there are errors in the list of links it
produces - some have an htm ending for some reason and the # is not
parsed correctly on my system.)

Three wishes:

1. Is there a way of now turning the sitemap list that Eric's script
creates into a sitemap?
2. Is there a way of modifying the script so it would index on a Tag
instead of all tiddlers?
3. And/or is there a way of mapping the nice friendly plain English
tiddler index to the appropriate url?

For 3 I suppose I could use the first script to produce a list of
human readable urls and the second one to produce a machine readable
list and match them in 2 columns in a table. I'll see how Goggle
manages in the next month cos it takes that long!

The whole point of my wishlist is to create a more Search Engine
Friendly doorway to a TW site. If Google can easily index the tiddler
content (which it should do with the nice site index produced by the
script) a Tiddlywiki can become an effective and real alternative way
of creating a web site. At the moment the sites tha get indexed
fastest are the standard sites or Joomla type ones that have Search
Engine Friendly facilities built in - for example there is a nice
plugin for Joomla called Joomap that produces a sitemap that Goggle
accepts.

Thanks again for that nice neat little script.

[Eric Shulman]

> 2. Is there a way of modifying the script so it would index on a Tag
> instead of all tiddlers?

To select tiddlers based on a specific tag-value, change this:

var tids=store.getTiddlers("title","excludeLists");

to this:
var tids=store.getTaggedTiddlers("insert-tag-value-here");

> 3. And/or is there a way of mapping the nice friendly plain English
> tiddler index to the appropriate url?

To create a "PrettyLink" for each URL, change this:
out+=url+"#"+permalink+"\n";
to this:
out+="[["+tids[t].title+"|"+url+"#"+permalink+"]]\n";

HTH,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

[kev]

Almost perfect.

1. That works brilliantly for the http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/worldwideweb.html
site.

2. For some reason I get strange results on my other site
http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/homepage.html (see the
Create a TiddlyWiki SEO index tiddler).

I get links looking like this: *Help menu|http://
www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/homepage.html

1. %5B%5B*Help%20menu%5D%5D]]

It looks like the tiddlers are being formatted and broken with a
number code because all the tiddlers have the same structure broken
after the html with a number 1. Might that have something to do with
the template??

[Eric Shulman]

> 2. For some reason I get strange results on my other sitehttp://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/homepage.html(see the

> Create a TiddlyWiki SEO index tiddler).
> I get links looking like this: *Help
menu|http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/homepage.html
>
> 1. %5B%5B*Help%20menu%5D%5D]]
>
> It looks like the tiddlers are being formatted and broken with a
> number code because all the tiddlers have the same structure broken
> after the html with a number 1. Might that have something to do with
> the template??

remove the trailing new line from [[SiteUrl]]!!!!!!

also, this is not correct:
var tids=store.getTiddlers("Index");
it should be:
var tids=store.getTaggedTiddlers("Index");

also note that, as is, this script will NOT help search engines index
your document... that is because the search engines do NOT *run* the
TW javascript code.

To index your tiddlers for seach engines, you should use the following
script which wraps the output inside a PRE block so that the links are
displayed as literal text, and then copy/paste the resulting output
into a separate "index.html" file that you place in the same directory
as your document.

<script>
var out=""
var tids=store.getTaggedTiddlers("Index");

for (var t=0; t<tids.length; t++) {
var url=store.getTiddlerText("SiteUrl");
if (!url) url=document.location.href;
var
permalink=encodeURIComponent(String.encodeTiddlyLink(tids[t].title));
out+=url+"#"+permalink+"\n";
}

return "{{{\n"+out+"\n}}}\n";
</script>

[kev]

Perfection. Many thanks, this indexing problem is an important subject
it seems to me. I wonder how many other really useful TWs are sitting
on web space unindexed?

I notice some other forums have a "SOLVED" section, where all the
solutions and fixes are summarised. Google forums seem a bit too basic
for doing that?

> remove the trailing new line from [[SiteUrl]]!!!!!!

That was the problem! - it is an easy mistake to make since there is
no way to visually see the actual code including spaces (as there is
for example in Word, where you can switch ON the code view showing
paragraph marks, spaces etc.)

> also, this is not correct:
> var tids=store.getTiddlers("Index");
> it should be:
> var tids=store.getTaggedTiddlers("Index");

Yes, that excludes all the system tiddlers. (Labelling all tiddlers
you want to be public with Index or whatever works for me - now I have
a true site index.)

> also note that, as is, this script will NOT help search engines index
> your document... that is because the search engines do NOT *run* the
> TW javascript code.

Understood that bit. I have created a standard non-wiki html file.

> To index your tiddlers for seach engines, you should use the following
> script which wraps the output inside a PRE block so that the links are
> displayed as literal text, and then copy/paste the resulting output
> into a separate "index.html" file that you place in the same directory
> as your document.
>
> <script>
> var out=""
> var tids=store.getTaggedTiddlers("Index");
> for (var t=0; t<tids.length; t++) {
> var url=store.getTiddlerText("SiteUrl");
> if (!url) url=document.location.href;
> var
> permalink=encodeURIComponent(String.encodeTiddlyLink(tids[t].title));
> out+=url+"#"+permalink+"\n";}
>
> return "{{{\n"+out+"\n}}}\n";
> </script>

It looks better the first way. The script above produces the correctly
parsed link looking like this:
http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/homepage.html#%5B%5B'Though%20the%20Heavens%20May%20Fall'%20and%20'Bury%20the%20Chains'%5D%5D
whereas the original version produces a natural SEF link like this:

'Though the Heavens May Fall' and 'Bury the Chains' which is much
better for google indexing.

To keep the good English and the correct hyperlink code intact I
select and copy the list of tiddlers from my TW to MS Word or
Dreamweaver (in Design mode, not code) and in either case the links
are "grabbed" with the text and produce a perfect list of tiddlers all
formatted correctly. Of course Word includes all sorts of Word code
junk but it does not matter for the sake of a small web page whose
purpose is only to act as an index file.

So that seems to be solved! I'll put the results on my TW and
hopefully it will be useful to anyone else who wants to find a faster
way of getting a TW site indexed.

Now to find a way of creating a TW sitemap.

Google- blessing or curse!

[Jeremy Ruston]

It's worth pointing out that plain old TiddlyWiki does seem to quite
happily get indexed by Google. For example, googling "tiddlywiki"
returns tiddler content from tiddlywiki.com as the top match. Or,
searching for HowToUpgrade and EmbeddedImages yields TiddlyWiki as the
top match:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=howtoupgrade+embeddedimages&btnG=Search
Google doesn't understand TW's syntax (including the hyperlink
format), and nor does it know how to link directly to the correct
tiddler within a TiddlyWiki. So, there are some limitations, but at
least it's possible to participate in Google's web with TiddlyWIki.

As several other people have concluded, I think that search engines
are best served by generating a static HTML representation of a
TiddlyWiki. This could either be generated by TiddlyWiki itself (along
the same lines as the RSS feed generation) or by a serverside like
minitiddlyserver or tiddlyspot.

Cheers

Jeremy

--
Jeremy Ruston
mailto:jer...@osmosoft.com
http://www.tiddlywiki.com

[Morris Gray]

> It's worth pointing out that plain old TiddlyWiki does seem to quite
> happily get indexed by Google. For example, googling "tiddlywiki"
> returns tiddler content from tiddlywiki.com as the top match. Or,
> searching for HowToUpgrade and EmbeddedImages yields TiddlyWiki as the top
> match:

I will second that, tiddlywiki.com is by far the top referring site to
http://twhelp.tiddlyspot.com Trying too hard to get Google to index
your site is known in the neurological world as 'purpose tremor'. A
moment's reflection about Google, its origins and its reason for
success is simple. It created an algorithm that included, with
considerable weight, the number of sites that linked to the site
searched (and less well known the number of hits those sites
themselves have). If you want success get many sites to link to your
site, although this is only one way. The structure of TiddlyWiki is
of less concern than the relevance your site has to people's needs. Do
something relevant and original and they will come.

Morris Gray
http://twhelp.tiddlyspot.com
A TiddlyWiki help file for beginners

On Aug 20, 2:48 am, "Jeremy Ruston" <jeremy.rus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's worth pointing out that plain old TiddlyWiki does seem to quite
> happily get indexed by Google. For example, googling "tiddlywiki"
> returns tiddler content from tiddlywiki.com as the top match. Or,
> searching for HowToUpgrade and EmbeddedImages yields TiddlyWiki as the
> top match:
>

> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls...

> >http://www.healthwealthandmusic.co.uk/wikis/homepage.html#%5B%5B'Thou...

[kev]

Apparently, the biggest single factor that gets your site to the top
of the index is how many external links there are to a page or site.
Also a site name or especially a url that matches a key word. I think
longevity also counts as the sites mentioned have been there a long
time. But this is also allowing sites like Stumbleupon and the
socialbookmarks sites to dominate listings as you will see if you
search for TiddlyWiki. I can't say I have found my best quality sites
by doing a straight search. Usually it is simple serendipity that
works because search engines can't index quality of content.
Stumbleupon is good but I can see it is going to be abused. Anyway,
providing Google with something the spider easily understand can only
help.

I suppose the best ideal solution for TiddlyWiki development would be
to include in future TiddlyWikis Eric's really neat little script
which would generate automatically a web page index (in the same way
that TW can generate an rss feed) plus a sitemap and that would solve
the whole indexing problem because after compying with Google's
verification/sitemap requirements there is not much you can do but
wait. As I mentioned, my Joomla sites got indexed quite quickly (a
month) after I got the verification and sitemap correctly done.

I'm learning Javascript but I can see it takes a long time to get to
the level of understanding necessary to produce that nice script!!