For Moderators: Can we please clean up tags! So they remain useful.
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TiddlyTweeter
Dec 27, 2019, 6:39:16 AM12/27/19
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This is the list under https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/tiddlywiki. It is a mess.
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 27, 2019, 6:41:20 AM12/27/19
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repeat for email ...
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 27, 2019, 6:43:22 AM12/27/19
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It could be a good idea to add a "for moderation" tag!
Jeremy Ruston
Dec 27, 2019, 7:45:04 AM12/27/19
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Hi Josiah
As far as I can tell, that is a list of the tags that are currently in use. There does not appear to be a means to remove items from the list (see illustration below). I think the only way we can remove items from the list would be to remove the corresponding tags from any posts.
Best wishes
Jeremy
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Eric Shulman
Dec 27, 2019, 7:55:42 AM12/27/19
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On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 3:39:16 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
This is the list under https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/tiddlywiki. It is a mess.
OK... which tags should stay and which should go?
I've marked up a few that I think can go... but I'm not going to remove them until I get some feedback...
discussion - aren't most posts "discussions"discusson - spelling error!done - why is this needed?edit-text-widget - too specific?evaluation - ???filters - just use "filter"?find - ???forumuse - ???goodUSEofTAGS - ???html5 - just use "html"?information - too generic?legokit - ???lpfs - too specific?muuri-touch - too project specific?operator - as in "filter"??organise - ???paragraphs - ???period-rule - ???
search - (vs "find")
tips - there's LOTS of things that could be considered "tips"... too generic?translcusion - spelling error!type - is this about use of the "type" field?usage - isn't everything "usage"?
Eric Shulman
Dec 27, 2019, 8:00:05 AM12/27/19
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On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 4:45:04 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
As far as I can tell, that is a list of the tags that are currently in use. There does not appear to be a means to remove items from the list (see illustration below). I think the only way we can remove items from the list would be to remove the corresponding tags from any posts.
In the Moderation interface, under Settings/Tags, it looks like you can remove tags from the list of suggested tags. I don't think this will affect tags on existing posts.
-e
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 27, 2019, 8:04:10 AM12/27/19
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Ciao Jeremy
Yeah. It is the list of what got used before you & Eric realised it went viral.
Yeah. It is the list of what got used before you & Eric realised it went viral.
The problem with it is that users may well look to it as THE resource to filter from.
It has redundancy. It also has basic errors like misspelling.
It is not a clean list.
TT
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Eric Shulman
Dec 27, 2019, 8:11:01 AM12/27/19
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OK... which tags should stay and which should go?I've marked up a few that I think can go... but I'm not going to remove them until I get some feedback...
Just to be sure it would have any effect, I removed a few of the obvious junk tags:
The result is that, when creating a new post, the list of suggested tags no longer shows the deleted tags.
-e
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 27, 2019, 8:12:11 AM12/27/19
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Eric
I agree with ALL your suggestions except "tips".
TT
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 27, 2019, 8:36:06 AM12/27/19
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Eric Shulman
Dec 27, 2019, 11:15:49 AM12/27/19
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tag removal - part 2:
Here's the next short-list of tags I think can be removed:
BobEXE - just use "Bob"
activate - no idea what this means
backtick - syntax specific
forumuse - ???
goodUSEofTAGS - ???
html5 - use "html"
information - too generic
lpfs - too specific
muuri-touch - project specific
organise - ???
paragraphs - ???
period-rule - ???
Mohammad
Dec 27, 2019, 11:24:07 AM12/27/19
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Eric,
I see somewhere you used plural somewhere singular
I recommend singular everywhere
like filter, and NOT filters or
tag and NOT tags
--Mohammad
On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 7:45:49 PM UTC+3:30, Eric Shulman wrote:
Correct!
find - use "search"forumuse - ???goodUSEofTAGS - ???html5 - use "html"information - too genericlpfs - too specificmuuri-touch - project specificorganise - ???paragraphs - ???period-rule - ???table - use "tables"
Mohammad
Dec 27, 2019, 11:28:48 AM12/27/19
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On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 4:25:42 PM UTC+3:30, Eric Shulman wrote:
On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 3:39:16 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:This is the list under https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/tiddlywiki. It is a mess.OK... which tags should stay and which should go?I've marked up a few that I think can go... but I'm not going to remove them until I get some feedback...
??
discussion - aren't most posts "discussions"discusson - spelling error!done - why is this needed?edit-text-widget - too specific?evaluation - ???filters - just use "filter"?
Correct!
just widget!
if NO then we may need to have reveal widget !!
operator is enough
muuri-touch - too project specific?operator - as in "filter"??organise - ???paragraphs - ???period-rule - ???
??
operator may be enough
table is recommended
?
translcusion - spelling error!type - is this about use of the "type" field?usage - isn't everything "usage"?
Eric Shulman
Dec 27, 2019, 11:41:46 AM12/27/19
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Compare:
filters, tables, tags, variables, fields, fonts, widgets, plugins
vs.
filter, table, tag, variable, field, font, widget, plugin
I think I prefer the plurals, since they seem to refer to collections of multiple posts rather than single posts
But either way will do, as long as we don't have BOTH.
-e
Mohammad
Dec 27, 2019, 11:48:35 AM12/27/19
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Yes! we need one of them not mixed of them!
On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 8:11:46 PM UTC+3:30, Eric Shulman wrote:
Compare:filters, tables, tags, variables, fields, fonts, widgets, pluginsvs.filter, table, tag, variable, field, font, widget, pluginI think I prefer the plurals, since they seem to refer to collections of multiple posts rather than single posts
we refer to a semantic subject here TW scripting elements!
But either way will do, as long as we don't have BOTH.
Agree!
-e
HansWobbe
Dec 27, 2019, 4:23:59 PM12/27/19
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For what it's worth, I created "a_tag" and "z_tag" as a bit of an experiment.
It showed me that the tags on a post appear in alphabetic order. This effectively creates a bit of a sorted index by bracketing all other tags. By using the gGroups search capabilities, it's easy to filter out various combinations.
Of course, tags are not strictly needed to do this since the search covers both the tag values and the appearance of that value with the text areas of a thread and its enclosed posts. As a result it's relatively easy to created "noWords" that are adequate Search targets. I doubt this method would ever be shared, but it is effective.
Hans.
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 29, 2019, 7:22:49 AM12/29/19
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Eric, sorry to crap on about this.
THANKS for beginning to clean up https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/tiddlywiki.
Please note that available tags in the editor "New Topic" are also an issue ... At the moment when you create a new thread the offered tags are ...
action
activate
announcement
backtick
Bob
BobEXE
bug
bulk
codemirror
css
date
design
discussion
docs
done
edit-text-widget
editor
evaluation
favicon
feature-request
field
filter
filters
find
font
forumuse
GitHub
goodUSEofTAGS
GoogleGroup
html
html5
import
information
keybindings
keyboard-widget
language
legokit
lpfs
macro
maths
I just think that tidying the tags will (1) make more sense; (2) help people find things later!
I feel slightly anal complaining, but I do think it is an issue.
Thanks for your efforts!
Josiah
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 29, 2019, 7:28:15 AM12/29/19
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Eric Shulman wrote:
Before I remove the above tags, I'd like some confirmation from others that they concur.
My view is that IF you get no explicit feedback use your own instinct.
It is often an issue here getting consensus. I don't think people don't care.
Rather the numbers are too low for such votes to make sense.
My take
Josiah
On Friday, 27 December 2019 17:15:49 UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote:
Eric Shulman
Dec 29, 2019, 7:54:52 AM12/29/19
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On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 4:28:15 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
Eric Shulman wrote:Before I remove the above tags, I'd like some confirmation from others that they concur.My view is that IF you get no explicit feedback use your own instinct.
OK... I've used my own instinct. If I removed a tag someone liked, they can let me know and I can always add it back.
I think there are still too many tags (63!)... in fact, there are more tags than are displayed when creating a new post. This implies that Google Groups itself doesn't expect there to be that many tags!
However, it's not clear which remaining tags should go. Please review the list and make suggestions for tags that could be removed (and why).
Here's the current list of tags:
Bob
GitHub
GoogleGroup
TWC
TiddlyMap
action
announcement
bug
codemirror
css
date
design
docs
editor
evaluation
favicon
feature-request
field
filters
font
html
import
keybindings
keyboard-widget
language
legokit
macro
maths
mobile
newbie
nodejs
offtopic
package
plugin
print
question
quirk
regex
resource
saving
search
server
singlefile
snippets
sort
svg
tables
tags
template
theme
tiddlyserver
tiddlyspot
tips
transclusion
tutorial
type
update
utc
variables
vim
whitespace
widget
wikitext
-e
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 29, 2019, 8:08:05 AM12/29/19
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Ciao Eric
To me that is really beginning to make sense. I'll sit on it a day and comment further.
Best wishes
Josiah
Eric Shulman
Dec 29, 2019, 9:08:32 AM12/29/19
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On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 5:08:05 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
To me that is really beginning to make sense. I'll sit on it day and comment further.
One thing to consider is how many times a particular tag has actually been used to tag posts.
I don't know of a way to get all the tag counts in one screen, but you can view the list of tags:
and then click through on each tag, one at a time, to see how many posts have that tag.
-e
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 30, 2019, 10:29:40 AM12/30/19
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Eric Shulman wrote
One thing to consider is how many times a particular tag has actually been used to tag posts.I don't know of a way to get all the tag counts in one screen, but you can view the list of tags:
I did look at numbers. Some things are obvious to keep ...
announcement (60)
bug (30)
css (39)
question (60)
resource (49)
saving (34)
singlefile (26)
template (12)
theme (11)
tutorial (28)
widget (25)
Everything 10 & below I ignored on counts.
And looked at them individually.
In next post.
TT
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 30, 2019, 5:09:39 PM12/30/19
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Ciao Eric
I'm not sure when a count is 10 or below it makes sense in the way that, say 60 (e.g. "question") does.
Meaning, because it is low, does not mean it is not useful. So from count 10 down I think this is more art than science.
I have a few suggestions on further thinning below (I don't list the the higher volume items mentioned in my last post to keep it clearer).
I am sure it could be thinned more. But this is what I think to remove 9 more items.
Best wishes
TT
Eric Shulman asked:
Eric Shulman asked:
Please review the list and make suggestions for tags that could be removed (and why).
BobGitHubGoogleGroupTWCTiddlyMap
action - delete as redundant, it is too widecodemirror - THIS one is interesting. Should every plugin have a tag? I think not. Suggest delete.datedesigndocs - This one was added by me at some point. Might be better to replace it with "documentation". I think it is USEFUL, to highlight new attempts to document TWeditorevaluation - of what? We are always evaluating stuff. Redundant. Delete.favicon - I think I added that? Seems okay. Its an aspect of TW that is defined, though minor. Keep.feature-requestfieldfiltersfonthtml - What isn't html? Sems far too wide to be useful.importkeybindings - Not useful to keepkeyboard-widget - Not useful to keeplanguagelegokit - I am pretty sure I added that. It is not really needed. Can be removed.
macromathsmobilenewbienodejsofftopicpackageplugin
quirkregexsearchserver
snippetssortsvgtablestags
tiddlyservertiddlyspottipstransclusiontypeupdateutc - far too specific. time/date covers it?variablesvim - delete, it is too specific.whitespacewikitext-e
Eric Shulman
Dec 30, 2019, 5:55:04 PM12/30/19
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On Monday, December 30, 2019 at 2:09:39 PM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
I am sure it could be thinned more. But this is what I think to remove 9 more items.
action - delete as redundant, it is too wide
codemirror - THIS one is interesting. Should every plugin have a tag? I think not. Suggest delete.
evaluation - of what? We are always evaluating stuff. Redundant. Delete.
html - What isn't html? Sems far too wide to be useful.
keybindings - Not useful to keepkeyboard-widget - Not useful to keep
legokit - I am pretty sure I added that. It is not really needed. Can be removed.
utc - far too specific. time/date covers it?
vim - delete, it is too specific.
As per your suggestion, I've just deleted the above 9 tags. There's still too many. Keep going. Much thanks for your assistance.
-e
TiddlyTweeter
Dec 30, 2019, 6:24:20 PM12/30/19
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I can probably add a few more.
I'll sleep on it.
Best wishes
Josiah
TiddlyTweeter
Jan 2, 2020, 10:04:12 AM1/2/20
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Ciao Eric
A few more suggestions.
I'm done with what I can do :-)
Hope someone else has a shot!
Best wishes
Josiah
Eric Shulman asked:
Please review the list and make suggestions for tags that could be removed (and why).
BobGitHubGoogleGroupTWCTiddlyMap
datedesign - NOT SURE. It is certainly functional. But "css" might be better at tag level. Design of what: code? presentation?
docs - This one was added by me at some point. Might be better to replace it with "documentation". I think it is USEFUL, to highlight new attempts to document TWeditor
favicon - I think I added that? Seems okay. Its an aspect of TW that is defined, though minor. Keep.feature-requestfieldfiltersfont
importlanguagemacro
mathsmobilenewbienodejsofftopic
package - slightly tricky. But we aren't really doing "packages". So it seems redundant.pluginquirk - likely I created that. I doubt anyone would reference "quirks". Delete.
regexsearchserversnippetssortsvgtablestagstiddlyservertiddlyspot
tips - this was me. Can go. It was a nice idea at the time. But can be done though a title just as well.transclusiontype - this is ambiguous as is. Likely means "content-type"? Not worth keeping without demand for it.updatevariableswhitespace - not clear enough. This may be about pragma? But not helpful alone. Delete.wikitext
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