Refute to Ralph & Beverly Wheeler/Sabbath/when the day begins

[b.nai...@gmail.com]

Shalom All,

We have been dealing with mostly Beverly Wheeler on another forum
concerning their belief of when the 7th day Sabbath is and when the
day begins. Most of us would agree that when we hear of another
understanding that we would give it due consideration and test the
doctrine by the Scriptures.

We would like to share her first post concerning their doctrine and we
would also like to follow it up by giving the complete transcript. As
we have never heard of this doctrine before we tested it ourselves via
Scripture and we would like to share it with y'all here that we might
be fully convinced whether it is truth or error.

Sincerely in Yahusha's Name,

Greg and dawn
(Gnd)

[b.nai...@gmail.com]

**Please note that this should be attached to our previous post.**

First Post by Beverly Wheeler:

What Is YHWH Doing In My Life?

YHWH Is Cleansing My Soul Temple Of All Strange Sabbaths!
YHWH is Perfecting Me To Stand In The Day Of YHWH,
As He Is All True Yisrael-Lights Indeed,

YHWH Is Cleansing My Soul Temple of All False Sabbaths -
That Means All Idol Sabbaths Have To Go, They Have To Be Purged From
Our Mind & Life!

FOR IT IS YHWH’s TRUE NAME & TRUE SHABBATH,
HIS SIGN/SEAL/MARK/NAME/NUMBER
That Is To Be On The Hand & In The Foreheads Of YHWH’s True Yisrael-
Lights Indeed.

See Revelation 13:15-18; Exodus 13:9; 31:13-17; Ezekiel 9:4-6;
Revelation 7:1-4; 14:1; 15:2; 22:4.

“But who may abide the Day of His coming?
and who shall stand when He YHWH appears?
for He is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:”

ANSWER:

“He that has Clean hands & a Pure heart/mind”
“He who has not lifted up his soul unto Vanity/Idols”
“Nor sworn deceitfully”!

(He Who Has Not The Mark Of The Beast On His Hand or Forehead! -
Revelation 14:9,10; 15:2.)

“And He YHWH shall sit as a Refiner and Purifier of silver: and
He shall Purify the sons of Levi/Priests/Ministers,
and Purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto YHWH
an offering in Righteousness (Right Doing).”
Psalms 24:4; Malachi 3:2,3.

“But The Seventh Day Is The Shabbath Of YHWH Your Mighty One”!
Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15.

YES! But The 7th Day Shabbath Of Whose Calendar/Appointed Times Is The
Great,
Eternal, Life, Saving Question!

So, is it Sunday, the Sun’s Day of the Pagan, Greek, Roman, Christian
Sun Calendar/Appointed Times?

Or, is it Saturday, Saturn’s/Satan’s Day, the Jewish Sabbath of the
Pagan, Greek, Roman, Christian, Sun Calendar/Appointed Times?

Or is it the Moon’s Day, the Lunar Sabbath of the Babylon Moon
Calendar of the Cunningly Devised Jewish Calendar/Appointed Times.

Or is it NONE of the Above?

“If I have regarded the Sun in its radiance or
the Moon moving in splendor (through it’s phases),

So that my heart was secretly enticed
and my hand offered them a kiss of homage/honor
(giving the Moon authority to rule YHWH’s Shabbath),

Then these also would be Sins/Strange Fire to be Judged,
for I would have been UNFAITHFUL to YHWH Elohiym on high.
Job 31:26-28; See Also Yeremiah 8:1,2; Leviticus 10:1-7.

YHWH's True 7th Day Shabbath Day cannot be any of the Above, because
they are All Pagan, and YHWH Commands His people to “Learn NOT the way
of the heathen”! Yeremiyah 10:2.

We have discovered that YHWH, our Purifier, Does Not Mix the
Abominable with the Pure, nor does He Put “Darkness for Light” or
“Light for Darkness”; that is entirely rebellious man’s evil doing and
“WOE” is them! See Isayah 5:20; 24:5; Yeremiyah 10:2; Ezekiel 22:26.

YHWH! Did Not Appoint The Moon To Rule The Day!
The Moon Does Not Rule The Day!
And, YHWH’s Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath, Is A Day! - Genesis 1:5;
2:2,3.

So, When is YHWH’s True, Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath Day?

ANSWER:
“But The Seventh Day Is The Shabbath Of YHWH Your Mighty One”!
Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; See Psalms 90:12.

HalleluYah!!!!!!!

It Is The 7th Day Shabbath Of YHWH’s Appointed Times/Calendar!
Genesis 2:2,3; Exodus 12:2,14; 16:4,23,29; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; 16:6.

YHWH first made know to us about 21 years ago, that Saturday on that
Abominable, Pagan, Greek, Roman, Christian, Sun Calendar WAS NOT
YHWH’s TRUE 7th DAY SHABBATH DAY!

We Asked: “So YHWH, when is Your TRUE Seventh (7th) Day SHABBATH Day”?

We Knew that YHWH would not give His people a Command that their
Eternal Life Depended
upon and then Not make it PLAIN when it was; we knew it had to be
REVEALED in HIS TORAH.

AND IT IS!

The biggest obstacle to overcome in discovering YHWH’s True Shabbath
is in removing all the cunningly devised Jewish Fables, Traditions,
Lying Wonders & Strange Fire, under which, Rebellious, Apostate Israel
has very, very cunningly buried YHWH’s ETERNAL GEMS OF TRUTHS.

It was the Babylonian Jews that brought our Creator YHWH's One & Only
Sanctified Name Most Wonderful to Naught! And, they are the
transgressors that also brought YHWH's Sanctified 7th Day Shabath to
Naught!

WE NOW HAVE 21 YEARS OF STUDIES ON “THE LOST CALENDAR OF ISRAEL” IF
ANY ARE TRULY INTERESTED IN KNOWING & WALKING IN ALL OF OUR CREATOR/
SAVIOUR’S TRUE WAYS & APPOINTED TIMES:

We Invite You All To Investigate & Weigh The Evidence In The TORAH:

COME! Search & See If These Things Are Truly So!

www.TheTwo-EdgedSwordOfTruth.org

The Truth Will Truly Set You Free From All Error, The Cunningly
Devised Fables, Lying Wonders, Strange Fire Of Apostate Israel.

Hosea 14:9 - Who is Wise, and he shall Understand these Things?
Prudent, and he shall Know Them? for the Ways of YHWH are Right, and
the Just shall Walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.

Daniel 12:10 - Many shall be Purified, and made White (Revelation
7:14), and Tried/Tested (Exodus 16:4,23,29); but the wicked shall do
wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the Wise shall
Understand.

Isayah 2:2 & Micah 4:2 - And many nations shall come, and say, Come,
and let us go up to the Mountain of YHWH, and to the House of the
Elohiym of Yacob; and He will Teach us of HIS WAYS, and we will Walk
in HIS PATHS: for out of Zion shall go forth the LAW, and the WORD of
YHWH from (the New) Yahrusalem (Revelation 3:12).

Hosea 6:1-3 - Come, and let us RETURN unto YHWH: for He has torn, and
He will heal us; He has smitten, and He will bind us up (Isayah 8:16;
61:1).

2 After Two Days will He revive us: in the Third Day He will raise us
up (Revelation 11:11,12), and we shall Live in His Sight.

3 Then shall we KNOW, if we FOLLOW on to KNOW YHWH: His going forth is
prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us (the Remnant of
Yisrael - Revelation 7:4; 12:17) as the Rain, as the Latter and Former
Rain unto the Earth (Deuteronomy 32:1-4; Hosea 10:2; Joel 2:23;
Zechariyah 10:1,8).

Deuteronomy 32:1-5 - Give ear, O you heavens, and I YHWH will speak;
and hear, O Earth, the Words of My mouth (Deuteronomy 8:3).

2 My Doctrine shall drop as the rain, My Speech/Word shall distill as
the dew, as the light rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers
upon the grass:

3 Because I will Publish/Proclaim the Name of YHWH: ascribe you
greatness unto our Elohiym.

4 He is the Rock, His Work is Perfect: for All His WAYS are Judgment:
a Elohiym of TRUTH and Without iniquity, JUST and RIGHT is He.

5 They (Apostate Israel) have corrupted themselves, their spot (Mark)
is not the spot (Mark) of His (YHWH’s) children: they (Apostate
Israel) are a perverse and crooked generation.

Follow not “Her”! or any of “Her” ways! - Revelation 17:5.

“Come out of Her (Apostate Israel), My people,
that you be not partakers of Her sins, and that you receive not of Her
plagues.

For Her sins have reached unto heaven,
and YHWH Elohiym has remembered Her iniquities.” Revelation 18:4,5.

They, The Apostate Israelites will perish, “Because they received not
the Love of the Truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:10.

“For all (un-righteous) people will walk every one in the name of his
idols/elohiym,

But we (the True Yisrael-Lights Indeed) will Walk in the Name of YHWH
our Elohiym
for ever and ever.” Micah 4:5.

HalleluYah! Shalom!
In The Sign/Seal/Mark/Name/Number Of YHWH-777!
Our Mighty One, Our Purifier, Our Redeemer!

“Now All these things happened unto Them/Israel for Examples:
and they are Written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the
world are come.

Wherefore let him that Thinks he stands (In Truth & Righteousness)
take heed
lest he fall/into more Strange Fire." 1 Corinthians 10:12; Leviticus
10:1.

May YHWH bless you all in your search for His True Seventh Day
Shabbath Day, "The SIGN between Him and His people ... Forever -
Exodus 31:13-17.

Be Blessed - Isayah 58:12-14.
Yisrael-Light-777

www.TheTwoEdged-SwordOfTruth.org
Matthew 10:34; Hebrews 4:12,13; Revelation 1:16; 19:15.


***Thanks,

Greg and dawn

[b.nai...@gmail.com]

Shalom All~

I'm sure most of you here are familiar with Ralph and Beverly and
their understanding of the calendar. We, ourselves, have just been
recently introduced to this concept and have given it due
consideration and have tried to the best of our ability to examine it
according to Torah. This transcript has been taken from another forum
and we would like to share it here.

Thanks and Yahuah bless,

Greg and dawn


Comment by j.e. on October 31, 2009 at 6:42pm
so how do you observe the sabbath day? how do you determine it?

shalom,

j.e.

Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 1, 2009 at 12:34pm
Shalom j.e.,

Thank you for you interest in discovering & knowing YHWH's True 7th
Day Shabbath Day.

“So (YHWH), Teach us (Yisrael-Lights) to Number our Days, that we may
apply our hearts/minds unto (YHWH’s) Wisdom”! Psalms 90:12.

Exodus 12:2 - “Thus says YHWH” ... “This Month (Abib-Green Ears-
Spring) shall be unto you (Yisrael) the Beginning of Months: IT shall
be the First Month of the Year unto You.”

Exodus 12:2 is where YHWH Commanded Yisrael to begin Numbering their
Days. The Days in their Year, the Days in their Month and the Days in
their Week.

You begin Numbering your 7 Day week from the Beginning of the First
Day of the First Month, just as you do the Days in the Month & the 3
Appointed Feasts in the Year that YHWH Commanded for Yisrael.

YHWH gives His Children of Light a complete New Beginning every Year
in the season of Abib. Why would that not include His 7 Day Week, when
the 7 Day Week is what governs all of YHWH’s Appointed Times/Calendar?
Leviticus 23:15; Duteronomy 16:9.

Planet Earth’s Day was the First Measure of Time Establish, and then
the 7 Day Week was the Second Measure of Time that YHWH established.
And the Week is Numbered by 7 Days in a week.

If one can count to 7 you can Know exactly when to celebrate YHWH’s
Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath.

See Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15 - “But the 7th Day is the
Shabbath of YHWH your Mighty One”!

And if one can count to 30 & 29, you can know the beginning of each
New Month without being confused or enticed by the Babylonian Moon
Goddess Sin. “YHWH is not the author of Confussion” - 1 Corinthians
14:33.

The 7th Day Shabbath is a Day - Genesis 2:2,3 and Not a Moon Night!
The Moon does not measure Planet Earth’s Day! IT is the Light of the
Greater Light that Measure Planet Earth’s Day!

Planet Earth’s New Year begins at the 1st Conjunction of the greater
light and the lesser light, on or after the Spring Equinox, in the
season of Abib - Genesis 1:3; Exodus 12:2.

And, Planet Earth’s Day Begins “At Even/Noon” ... “From Even/Noon unto
Even/Noon shall you (Yisrael) Celebrate your Shabbath”- Leviticus
23:32.

Contrary to popular belief “Even” & “Evening” does not mean darkness.
That contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5. “Evening” is the Time
from Noon to Sunset, which is the Time of “the Going Down of the sun”
- Deuteronomy 16:6; Isayah 38:8.

And, It is as Simple as that. Just Count and Number your Days, that
you may apply your Heart/Mind unto YHWH’s Wisdom.

The Moon has no light or wisdom of her own. It is the Moon Goddess Sin
(Apostate Israel) who has deceived & lead YHWH’s People astray into
sun & moon idolatry. - See Yeremiyah 8;1,2; 10:2; Ezekiel 8.

Do Not give the Moon the Honor that is Due YHWH Alone. He is Ruler of
His Shabbath Day - Matthew 12:8, and “And He Changes the Times and the
Seasons: ... He gives Wisdom unto the Wise, and knowledge to the
discerning.” Daniel 2:21,22.

YHWH is Cleaning our Soul Temples of all Defilement, if we let Him.
And His Bride is making Herself Ready for the Wedding - Revelation
19:7-9.

Bless all of you True, Honest in Heart, Truth Seekers & Doers of
YHWH’s WORD; Let His Light shine in! The TRUTH will truly set you FREE
of all the very, very cunningly devised fables, idols, tradition, &
lying wonders of the Lying Spirit.

Yisrael-Light-777,
Ralph & Beverly

Comment by j.e. on November 1, 2009 at 1:02pm
how do you know when to count to 29 or 30?


Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 1, 2009 at 10:38pm
Shalom j.e.

Thank you for sharing the website, I looked at it quickly, will look
closer at it tomorrow.

how do you know when to count to 29 or 30?

Deuteronomy 16:1 - “Observe the Month/Season of Abib (Green Ears/
Spring), and keep the Passover unto YHWH your Elohiym: for in the
Month of Abib YHWH your Elohiym brought you out of Egypt by night.”

The scriptures below are used by Lunarians to support their Babylonian
Jewish Crescent Moon tradition for establishing the First Day of a
Month. But, the 2 Scriptures below are not even speaking of the First
Day of the Month. They are speaking of the 14th & 15th Day of the
First Month “when the MOON is FULL”!

Psalms 81:3-5 tells Yisrael to “Sound the Rams Horn IN the New/First
Month (#2320), in the Time Appointed (#3677 = “when the Moon is
full”), on the Day of our Solemn Feast (Passover); this is a Decree/
Law for Yisrael, an Ordinance of the Elohiym of Yacob. He (YHWH)
established it (Passover) as a Statute for Yoseph when he went out
against Egypt.”

Psalms 104:19 - “He (YHWH) Appointed (#6213) the moon (#3394) for
Seasons (#4150 - Mowadah = Appointed Feasts/Appointed Time).”

According to Psalms 81:3-5, the Appointed “Season” Feast Time it is
speaking of here in Psalms 104:19 is Passover, “when the moon is
full.” Passover is the Season/Feast for which the full moon was
Appointed, because Passover is a “Memorial” - Exodus 12:14.

We have found No “Thus says YHWH” in the TORAH where YHWH has
Commanded that the Sighting of the Crescent Moon is to be used in
establishing the First Day of a Month. If you know of such, then show
us.

Note: Without a “Thus Says YHWH” (Deuteronomy 8:2) you are not
standing on the Solid Rock, but in sinking sand.

When you count from Day One, of the First Month, the beginning of
Israel’s New Year, you will see that Passover the 14th Day of the
First Month is always a “Memorial,” a 7th Day Shabbath! A High Day to
YHWH; - See Exodus 12:14; 13:6,16; John 19:31.

Now, We see from Psalms 81:3-5 & Psalms 104:19 that the Moon is to be
“FULL” on the 14 th Day of our Solemn Passover Feast. It is common
knowledge that the Moon cycles the Earth once about every 29 1/2 Days.
There are not a perfect number of days in a lunar cycle; and this is
why the Months are Numbered alternately every 30 & 29 Days. It keep
Yisrael’s Feast Days in harmony with Planet Earth’s Seasons. When you
Number this way, the Moon will always be “Full” on our Passover Feast
and also at our Tabernacles Feast.

When the Moon is “Full” is the only Time that the Moon rules
completely the Darkness/Night. The Moon is mostly Full only about 3-4
Days of a Month.

Once the First Day of the First Month of Yisrael’s Year is
established, there really is no need to use the moon in establishing
the First Day of each Month, nor to establish a lunar sabbath day when
all you need to do, is just simply Number your Days; and IT is as
simple as that. Probably too simple for most. But YHWH did promise to
make “Wise the simple” - Psalms 19:7; 116:6; 119:130.

So Teach us YHWH, to Number our Days, that we may apply our hearts
unto Your Wisdom, so that we can Honor Your True Sanctified 7th Day
Shabbath Day as You Commanded, the “SIGN” between You and Your people
Forever and Ever, Praise YHWH! - Genesis 1:3-2:2,3; Exodus 12:2;
20:8-11; 31:13-17; Leviticus 23:15; 23:32; Deuteronomy 16:6.

YHWH, “Sanctify them (the Remnant of Yisrael) through Your TRUTH: Your
WORD is TRUTH”! John 17:17.

May the Spirit of Truth guide you all, into all Truth - John 16:13.

Yisrael-Lights-777
Ralph & Beverly


Comment by j.e. on November 2, 2009 at 6:27am
you didn't answer my question. how do you know to count to 29 or 30
for the month? what determines a 29 day month or a 30 day month?


Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 2, 2009 at 12:36pm
you didn't answer my question. how do you know to count to 29 or 30
for the month? what determines a 29 day month or a 30 day month?

Sorry j.e., I will do my best in YHWH to make it plainer.

YHWH made it very plane the number of Days that are in a Week, which
is 7, - Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:23-30; 20:8-11; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy
5:12-15.

And, the “DAY” is the First Unit of measure YHWH established for
measuring Time for Planet Earth - Genesis 1:3-5 - A month is measured
by Days.

But, Nowhere in the TORAH are we given the number of Days that are to
be in Yisrael’s Month, or even in the Year. And that is because there
ARE NOT (since the great deluge - Genesis 8:22; 9:8-17) a perfect
number of Days in the Month or the Year. Nor are there a perfect
number of 12 months in Yisrael’s year, which is why there is need of a
13th Month added every 2 or 3 years to Keep Yisrael's Feasts in
Harmony with Planet Earth’s Seasons.

Since it is man’s transgression that caused the imperfect number of
Days, Weeks and Months in the Year (Genesis 6:5-7), it appears that
the main object here, is to Keep the Appointed Feasts YHWH commanded
in harmony with Plant Earth’s Seasons (Genesis 8:32).

YHWH gives His children of Light a New Beginning Every Year in Exodus
12:2 and all one needs to do is Number our Days. Numbering our Days
definitely eliminates giving and/or paying any homage to the Moon. Do
you not think it wise to heed the command and warning in Exodus
20:4,5; Deuteronomy 4:19-24 and elsewhere in the Torah, NOT to serve
and pay homage to the Created?

“If I have regarded the sun in its radiance or
the moon (#3394 Yareach) moving in splendor (through its phases),
so that my heart was secretly enticed and
MY HAND OFFERED THEM (EVEN) A KISS OF HOMAGE (making it rule the
Shabbath Days & the Month), then these also would be sins to be
judged,

for I would have been UNFAITHFUL to YHWH Elohiym on high.”

Job 31:26-28.

Even Job, who probably lived around the time of Abraham, knew what and
Abomination it was to serve & honor the Moon in any way. All idolatry
will be exposed - Yeremiyah 8:1,2; Hebrews 4:12:13.

Why is it so hard to let go of your Moon Goddess Sin? What kind of
hold does she have on you. She has no Light of Her own, nor does She
rule Planet Earth’s Day. There is NO Command in Torah for the Moon to
rule YHWH Shabbath Day! or Month! To do this is pure adulterated Moon
Worship and is an Abomination in the eyes of YHWH our Creator - see
Ezekiel 22:25-28.

So, what determines a 29 day month or a 30 day month?

Answer: “The Full Moon” in the First Month as YHWH tells us in Psalms
81:3-5. But, it makes little difference in the First Month weather you
number 30 or 29 days for the Moon is always “Full” to reflect the "Sun/
Son* of Righteousness' Light" on our solemn Passover Feast Days (the
14th & 15th) when you begin numbering from the First Conjunction on or
after the Spring Equinox. (*Malachi 4:2)

“Sound the Rams Horn IN the New/First Month (#2320),
in the Time Appointed (#3677 = “when the Moon is full”),
on the Day of our Solemn Feast (Passover);
this is a Decree for Yisrael, an Ordinance of the Elohiym of Yacob.
He (YHWH) established it (Passover) as a Statute for Yoseph
when he went out against Egypt.” Psalms 81:3-5.

We begin the New Year with a 30 Day Month, which keeps the
Conjunctions of the rest of the Year, close to the 1st Day of each
Month. Numbering eliminates the confused cycles & phases of the Moon.
"YHWH is not the author of Confusion"! Just Number 30, 29, 30 29 &
etc. till the Next New Year. And numbering, also keeps intact the 7
Day Week throughout the Year.

There is no command that the First Day of the Month has to be exactly
on the Conjunction, which is an impossibility, even with the Lunar
Sabbath theory and its broken 7 Day Cycle.

The Exodus gives us the Key for when Yisrael's New Year is to begin.
The Spring of the Year begins at the Spring Equinox; this was the time
of the Year that YHWH delivered the children of Israel from Egyptian
Bondage. We see at that time in Exodus 9:31,32 that the hail plague
destroyed the flax & the barley, but did not destroy the wheat or the
rye because it was not grown up yet. The Flax & the Barley was in the
green ear which happens around the Spring Equinox.

In Exodus 12:2 YHWH Commands: "This Month (Abib/Green Ears - Exodus
13:4) shall be unto you Yisrael the beginning of Months: It shall be
the First Month of the Year to you." "Abib" means "Green Ears" or
Spring Time, which is to be the beginning of Yisrael’s First Month.

It tells us in Psalms 81:3-5 that the Moon is "Full" on Passover the
14th Day of the First Month, and for the Moon to be "Full" at that
time, you would need to begin numbering from the Conjunction of the
sun & moon. The Conjunction does not always occur on the Spring
Equinox. So, the First Day of the First Month of Yisrael's New Year
begins at the First Conjunction on or after the Spring Equinox when
Planet Earth as completed its orbit of the sun and the day & night are
equal. Everyone can know when the Spring Equinox is. This keeps
Yisrael's Feast Days In Harmony with Planet Earth’s Seasons.

It is common knowledge that the Moon cycles the Earth once about every
29 1/2 Days. There are not a perfect number of days in a lunar cycle;
and this is why the Months are Numbered alternately every 30 & 29
Days. It keeps Yisrael’s Feast Days in Harmony with Planet Earth’s
Seasons. When you Number this way, the Moon will always be “Full” on
our Passover Feast and also at our Tabernacles Feast as YHWH
Commanded.

A QUESTION FOR YOU:
Where does YHWH in His Word Command the Moon (Symbolic of Israel) to
rule the Day and/or YHWH’s Sanctified Sabbath Day?

"The Shabbath was made for man/adam, Not man/adam for the Shabbath.
Therefore the Son of man (Yahwshua) is Ruler of the Shabbath" - Mark
2:27; Not the Moon!

Blessings in your search for YHWH’s TRUE 7th Day Shabbath Day, “But
the 7th Day is the Shabbath of YHWH your Mighty One”! How simple; just
number our days, that our days may be long/eternal upon the land which
YHWH will give us in the New Heaven & Earth. HalleluYah!!!!!!!

Yisrael-Lights-777
Ralph & Beverly


Comment by June Shaw on November 2, 2009 at 7:07pm
Hello Ralph and Beverley, This is reminding me of when I first started
discovering the Names, Feasts of Yahweh and I realised that I had to
go back in time in my mind to the beginnings when Yahshua was here.
This involves stripping away the church years, the traditions of man,
the Jewish fables and finding the pure truth that He gave us.
There is only one place to receive the true teaching and that is, of
course, from the Father and from those who have been taught by Him.
When I first read your writings I went to the website and started
printing your study and will proceed with that today. Thank you for
your insights and may Yahweh bless you both. And even the most
challenged of us can count to SEVEN.


Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 3, 2009 at 8:19am
Shalom June,

YHWH Bless you!

Yes, we really do have to go clear back, even to Yisrael’s roots and
beyond to find the Pure Unadulterated Truth. But the real Key in
knowing & understanding Truth, is found in Deuteronomy 6 & 10:12,13.
It all boils down to Loving YHWH and His Ways, more that self and
man’s ways - Isayah 55:8,9. If you are a relentless Truth Seeker &
Doer, you have YHWH’s attention, and He will bring us to a full
knowledge of Truth & Righteousness. That is guaranteed!

Apostate Israel has really defiled & corrupted herself and that
includes both houses - Ephraim & Judah. There are so many false
concepts yet to be unmasked, but this is how YHWH purifies our hearts.
He is refining His Remnant, removing the dross and making them like
the Gold Of Ophir - Psalms 45:9. All idolatry will be consumed and if
we do not divest ourselves of it, we will be consumed with it.

Bless you all in your search for YHWH’s True Seventh Day Shabbath Day.
The Truth will set us FREE form all error! Praise YHWH!!!!!!!

Yisrael-Lights-777,
Ralph & Beverly

Comment by Dale Trottier on November 3, 2009 at 10:51am
All,

Much has been shared here under the stated intention of seeking Truth
and acquiring the Mark of YHVH, His Words, including His Name and His
Moadim, inscribed in our minds so that we may meditate on them and on
our right hand so that we may do them. This is good, and it is hoped
that all who are involved here are in search of same.

That said, let us reason together with Abba YHVH as Scripture requires
for all who are seeking to know His ways.

Does one “worship” the moon when he chooses to use it for the purpose
for which it was created by YHVH?

• Beresheet (Gen) 1:14 And Elohim said, “Let lights come to be in the
expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let
them be for signs and Moadim, for days and years.”
• Tehillim (Psalms) 104:19 He made the moon for Moadim; The sun knows
its going down.
• Vayyiqra (Lev) 23:1-2 And YHVH spoke to Moshe, saying, “Speak to the
children of Yisra’el, and say to them, ‘The Moadim (Appointed Times)
of YHVH, which you are to proclaim as set-apart gatherings, My Moadim,
are these: Six days work is done, but the seventh day is a Shabbat of
rest, a set-apart gathering.’”
• Yirmeyahu (Jer) 31:35-36 Thus said YHVH, who gives the sun for a
light by day, and the laws of the moon by night, who stirs up the sea,
and its waves roar – YHVH of hosts is His Name: “If these laws (of the
MOON) vanish before Me,” declares YHVH, “then the seed of Yisra’el
shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”

If not the moon, how else does a shepherd who tends his flock in the
fields, hills and valleys, away from civilization and people for long
periods of time, keep the Shabbat? What about one who is in the
wilderness, again, away from civilization and people for extended
periods of time, keep the Shabbat? Counting to seven is easy, yet just
as easy, at least when having taken His yoke upon one’s neck, is
losing track of time, hours, days, etc… as so easily happens when one
is in the spirit with the Spirit, as Scripture requires for all whom
desire to worship and follow Abba YHVH. So then, once having lost
track of time as this world keeps it, where does one begin his count?
To whom does he go to find out what day it really is? To another man?
Or perhaps to his Creator. If to his Creator, He will simply say,
“Look up in the sky son, for there you will find your answer.”

Although there is more to be said regarding other points made
throughout this discussion, unless and until one comes into the
understanding of the moon’s purpose as stated by YHVH above, further
confusion will only come about from a discussion of these points.

A little leaven contaminates the whole loaf, and Scripture makes no
allowances for the leaven being mixed knowingly or unknowingly while
in the flesh. Now, if unknowingly, and those who have been dining on
this defiled bread are pure of heart, the correction forthcoming from
a Loving Father to His beloved children will be heard and followed. If
not, this correction offered out of His desire that none should
perish, a desire shared by the messenger penning these words as well,
will once again fall on deaf ears, as has been the case for 6,000+
years, rendering these once again without excuse.

Shalom v’Ahava B’Shem YHVH,
Dale

Comment by j.e. on November 3, 2009 at 8:27pm
very well said, dale!

shalom,

j.e.


Comment by Greg and dawn on November 4, 2009 at 5:12am
Delete Comment Shalom Beverly,

You said, "And, the “DAY” is the First Unit of measure YHWH
established for measuring Time for Planet Earth - Genesis 1:3-5 - A
month is measured by Days.

YHWH gives His children of Light a New Beginning Every Year in Exodus
12:2 and all one needs to do is Number our Days. Numbering our Days
definitely eliminates giving and/or paying any homage to the Moon. "

If Genesis 1:3-5 is the first unit of measurement of time then
shouldn’t that be the starting point? I mean that’s the first thing He
did was establish the six days of work and day of rest. So is there
any way to tell if there is a mo’ed/appointed time that represents “in
the beginning”? I would suggest that “in the beginning” is represented
by the New Moon of the 7th month – a memorial of shouting. So when you
get to the first day of the 7th month with your count does it line up?
Do you have a new moon – six days of work – and a day of rest? If you
begin your count on the first day of the first month where do you
start your count? Is day one the new moon day of the first month? Or
is it day two of the month that begins your six days work and one day
rest? If I knew that then I could calculate forward to see if your
Sabbath falls on the 22nd day of the 2nd month as in the Scriptures.
If it does, you should be able to continue through your count to the
15th day of the 7th month and there should be a full moon on that day.
Does this occur according to your count?

Revelation describes the woman standing on the moon clothed with the
sun – is she paying homage to the luminaries? Or is she only heeding
the instructions that are given in Genesis 1:14? The luminaries were
given for us to keep track of days, years, and appointed times with
signs. That is a gross accusation to say if one uses them to tell time
that they are paying homage to them. If you consider a day to start
when the sun comes up are you paying homage to the “sun god”? If we
start a month at the new moon are we paying homage to the moon?


Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 5, 2009 at 1:07pm
“TRUTH is not what I believe. TRUTH is not even what I know. TRUTH IS
FACT. I may not believe IT, I may not know IT. That does not change
IT. IT is there nevertheless (in YHWH’s TORAH), waiting to be
discovered and believed. TRUTH does not depend on the unsettled and
changing opinions of men. IT was TRUTH before IT was believed. IT
remains TRUTH, whether IT is believed or not. Reason does not
originate or create IT. It merely Discovers IT.” FROM: WHEN A MAN DIES
BY CARLYLE B. HAYNES.

************************************
Shalom Dale, j.e. & All,

We are beginning to wonder, where are all the Nobel Yisrael-Lights,
“who search to see if these things are truly so.”

Yes Dale, it is very good to be a Truth seeker; and be assured, it is
our fully undivided intention to be a relentless Truth seeker & doer,
because we Love TRUTH & RIGHTEOUSNESS, and that is what one must be
and will be if he or she has YHWH’s Spirit of Truth abiding in their
Heart/Soul Temple.

We desire to know the TRUTH, because it is Truth, because it is the
Way, the Truth and the Life; we want the whole TRUTH and nothing but
the TRUTH, so help us YHWH.

TRUTH always exposes ERROR! That is why it is Hated by those who love
man’s ways, traditions, idols, cunningly devised fables, & lying
wonders more than and above YHWH’s WAYS.

The Truth seeker will not be afraid to examine, re-examine and weigh
and/or re-weigh every doctrine & word in YHWH’s TORAH, even when the
Truth may expose & prove themselves in error.

In Fact that is how YHWH Purifies the Hearts/Soul Temples of His
chosen ones. He reveals our idols to us; and then, All Strange Fire &
Idols must be cleansed form our Soul Temples or one will never survive
the Day Of Atonement - Leviticus 10 & 16.

And Yes, that said, let us Truly reason together with Abb YHWH as
Scripture requires for all who Truly LOVE YHWH, with All their heart &
with All their soul, and with all their might, and are seeking to know
All of His Ways. “QUENCH NOT YHWH’s SPIRIT OF TRUTH”!

Dale Asks: Does one “worship” the moon when he chooses to use it for
the purpose for which it was created by YHVH?

That is a misleading question and is based on assumption, not Fact.

We Ask: Does not an honest in heart, Truth seeker and doer first
establish from YHWH’s WORD exactly for what Purpose YHWH created the
moon? “PROVE ALL THINGS”! From YHWH’s TORAH! - The LAW & the
TESTIMONY! Isayah 8:20; Deuteronomy 31:24-27.

If a doctrine cannot be established and/or verified in the TORAH, then
it is Not doctrine from the Mouth of YHWH. Deutronomy 8:3.

“There is a Conspiracy”! and it is to bring to naught YHWH’s True
Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath Day, just as they have brought to naught
His True Sanctified Name Most Wonderful YHWH. See Ezekiel 22:25-28.

The Lunar Sabbatarians have given us No Proof or Facts yet from YHWH’s
TORAH that the Moon is to rule/reign YHWH’s Shabbath Day or even the
First Day of each Month. And without the “THUS SAYS YHWH” form the
TORAH, all they have, is a cunningly devised lying wonder which is
used to entice, deceive and lead astray the Remnant of Yisrael.
Matthew 24:24.

The only Truth they do have is that, Saturday on that Abominable,
Greek, Roman, Christian, Babylonian Jewish Calendar is NOT YHWH’s True
Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath Day. And they use this Truth, knowingly or
unknowingly, to ensnare and deceive those who have not yet the
knowledge and understanding to discern between the Spirit Of Truth &
the Lying Spirit! and they entice them into there Abominable Moon
Worship; which they claim was ordained by YHWH - Deuteronomy 18:19,20
- “Try?Test the spirits”! - 1 John 4:1.

So Let us take a closer look to see if these things (being claimed
here) are truly so, and let YHWH’s SPIRIT of TRUTH/WORD speak and tell
what is TRUTH!

• Beresheet (Gen) 1:14 And Elohim said, “Let lights come to be in the
expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let
them be for signs and Moadim, for days and years.”

Note #1: Genesis 1:14,15 plainly tells us that the “greater light” and
the “lesser light” were created to “give Light upon the Earth.”

Genesis 1:16 Plainly tells us that “the greater light” is “to rule/
reign the Day” and “The lesser light” is “to rule/reign the Night.”

Note #2: They were “to separate the “Day/Light form the Night/
Darkness.”

Yes! where there is Light, darkness cannot exist, so the Greater Light
rules/reigns the DAY. And “The sun knows its going down” - Psalms
104:19. We are to be children of LIGHT and Not darkness! John
12:35,36.

And, the Lesser Light, only reflects the Light of the Greater Light
and only rules or reigns the Night completely when it is “Full”. The
lesser light has no light of its own!

SO, HOW CAN IT, THE MOON, THEN REIGN THE DAY? YHWH’s SHABBATH IS A
DAY!

Note #3: And they were to “be for signs and Moadim, for days and
years.”

So, Lets IDENTIFY the “Signs” & “Moadim” - the “Days” & the “Years”
for which the Sun the “grater light” or the Moon the “lesser light”
were created.

“SIGNS” #226 = Signal, Beacon, Mark, Sign, Token etc.

What does the Sun, the “greater light” Signal or Mark?
Genesis 1:5 the “DAY”!

“DAY/DAYS” #3117 = To be hot, a Day, Age, etc.

A “DAY” is the Time it takes the Earth to rotate once on it axes -
Genesis 1:5 - “And the Evening & the Morning were the First Day.”
Light = Day - Genesis 1:5.

Does the Moon, the “lesser light” Signal or Mark the Day in any way?

No! Genesis 1:16 - the Moon was created “to give light at Night” and
the only time the Moon “rules/reigns” the Night completely is at “Full
Moon”!

So, What Does the Moon the “lesser light” Signal or Mark?

• Tehillim (Psalms) 104:19 “He YHWH made the moon (#3394 Yareach) for
Moadim;...”

“MOADIM” #4150 = An Appointment, Fixed Time, Season, Festival,
conventionally a year, etc.

“YEAR/YEARS” #8141 = A Year (as a revolution of time)...
A Year is the Time it takes Planet Earth to orbit the Sun, the greater
light.

Psalms 81:3-5 - “Sound the Rams Horn IN the New/First Month (#2320),
IN the Time Appointed (#3677 = “when the Moon is full”), on the Day of
our Solemn Feast/Moadim (Passover); this is a Decree/Law for Israel,
an Ordinance of the Elohiym of Yacob. He (YHWH) established it
(Passover) as a Statute for Yoseph when he went out against Egypt.”

So, “Passover” is the “Moadim/Feast/Appointed Time” for which YHWH
created the Moon, as verified by Genesis 1:14.

**********************************

• Vayyiqra (Lev) 23:1-4 - And YHWH spoke to Moshe, saying,

2 “Speak to the children of Yisra’el, and say to them, ‘The Moadim
(Feasts/Appointed Times) of YHWH, which you are to proclaim as
(Sanctified) set-apart gatherings/convocations, My Moadim/Feasts/
Appointed Times, are these:

3 Six days work is done, but the Seventh Day is a Shabbat of rest, a
set-apart gathering. ...

4 These are the Moadim/Feasts/Appointed Times of YHWH, even Sanctified
Convocations/set-apart, which you shall Proclaim in their Season/
Moadim/Appointed Time:

Yes, The Moadim (Appointed Times), are:

The 7th Day Shabbath Day - Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15,

And the 3 Commanded Festivals/Feasts in the Year - Exodus 23:10-17,

And the First Day of each Month - Leviticus 23:24; Numbers 10:10;
28:11; 29:1.

And Note: All are Numbered DAYS: The Shabbath, Passover, Feast Of
Weeks, & Tabernacles - See Leviticus 23 & etc. “So YHWH, Teach us to
Number/Count our Days, that we may apply our hearts/minds unto YHWH’s
wisdom.” Psalms 90:12.

DID YOU NOTICE: YHWH calls the 7th Day Shabbath a “DAY” - “But the 7th
DAY is the Shabbath of YHWH your Mighty One”! And YHWH established the
“DAY” in Genesis 1:3-5, and He established the 7 DAY Week in Genesis
1:1 through 2:3.

THE THREE TIMES IN THE YEAR - Exodus 23:1417; 34:23; Deuteronomy
16:16.

IN THE FIRST MONTH
#1 - First “DAY” Of the First Month - “DAY ONE” - Exodus 12:2.
#1 - Passover/Shabbath/Unleavened Bread - the 14th “DAY” of the First
Month - Exodus 12:6,14,18,19; Exodus 23:12,15; Deuteronomy 16:6-8.
# - Wave Sheaf/First Fruits Day - 15th “DAY” of First Month -
Leviticus 23:6, 10-14; Joshua 5:10-12.

IN THE THIRD MONTH
#2 - Feast Of Weeks (49 Days from Passover/Shabbath) = 7 Weeks
Complete (49th “DAY”) from Passover/Shabbath/Unleavened Bread - always
the 4th Day of the Third Month - Exodus 23:16; Leviticus 23:9-22;
Deuteronomy 16:9-12.
#2 - Pentecost/First Fruits - “50 DAYS” from Passover, the 5th Day of
the Third Month - Leviticus 23:16.

IN THE SEVENTH MONTH
#3 - Trumpets - First “DAY” of Seventh Month - Leviticus 24:24,25.
#3 - Day Of Atonement - Tenth “DAY” of Seventh Month - Leviticus
23:27-32.
#3 - Feast Of Tabernacles - 15th “DAY” to the 22nd “DAY” of the
Seventh Month - Exodus 23:16; Leviticus 23:33-44; Deuteronomy
16:13-16.

NOTE AGAIN: YHWH calls the 7th Day Shabbath a “DAY” - “But the 7th DAY
is the Shabbath of YHWH your Mighty One”! And YHWH established the
“DAY” in Genesis 1:3-5, and He established the 7 DAY Week in Genesis
1:1 through 2:3.

************************************
So, Where is the “Thus says YHWH” that the “Moon” rules/reigns and/or
has authority over Planet Earth’s DAY? And/or YHWH’s Shabbath Day?

IT IS VERY PLAIN, YHWH DID NOT COMMAND THE MOON TO RULE THE DAY!

“If I have regarded the sun in its radiance or the moon (#3394
Yareach) moving in splendor (through its phases), so that my heart was
secretly enticed and MY HAND OFFERED THEM (EVEN) A KISS OF HOMAGE
(making it rule/reign the Shabbath Day & the Month), then these also
would be SINS to be JUDGED, for I would have been UNFAITHFUL to YHWH
Elohiym on high.” Job 31:26-28.

YHWH GAVE HIS TRUE YISRAEL-LIGHTS-777 INDEED A BETTER WAY TO NUMBER
THEIR DAYS, WITHOUT BEING ENTICED TO KISS THE MOON and/or USING OUR
HAND TO OFFER HOMAGE IN ANY WAY TO THE MOON! - “And he (the New One
World Order Beast) caused all, both small and great, rich and poor,
free and bond, to receive a MARK in their RIGHT HAND, or in their
FOREHEADS”! - Revelation 13:16.

To whom is your Right Hand giving Homage?

TO MAKE THE CREATED MOON RULE/RAIN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE NIGHT, IS
PUTTING THE MOON GODDESS SIN BEFORE YHWH AND IS SETTING UP THE MOON IN
YHWH’S SEAT! - 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

THE LUNAR SHABBATH IS STRANGE FIRE INDEED! IT IS THE “STRONG DELUSION”
SENT TO THOSE APOSTATE ISRAELITES, WHO RECEIVE NOT THE LOVE OF THE
TRUE SHABBATH AND WHO LOVE TO BELIEVE THE LYING WONDERS OF THE LYING
SPIRIT.

SO HOW IS IT, THAT THE MOON/ISRAEL, THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN HAS COME TO
RULE AND OVERRULE KING YHWH THE “SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS”? ANSWER:
THROUGH THEIR MOON GODDESS SIN! See Jeremiyah 7:18,19;
44:16,17,18,19,25-27; Revelation 18:7.

AND YES, THOSE WHO ARE MARRIED TO THE MOON/CHURCHANITY/APOSTATE
ISRAEL, YHWH WILL LET YOU KEEP YOUR MOON GODDESS SIN! BUT TO YOUR OWN
DESTRUCTION! FOR YOU CANNOT SERVE BOTH YOUR MOON GODDESS SIN AND YHWH
YAHWSHUA OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS & JUDGE! - See 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12;
Jeremiyah 8:1-3; Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:23.

So, Where is your “Thus says YHWH” or Command that the Moon rules/
reigns/marks YHWH’s Sanctified Seventh Day Shabbath Day?

If you have such Testimony from TORAH, please bring it forth so we can
know & heed it! “At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of 3
witnesses, shall a matter be established”! - Deuteronomy 19:15.

“To The Law & The Testimony/Torah, If They Speak Not According To This
Word/Torah, It Is Because There Is No Light/Truth In Them.” Isayah
8:20.

YHWH HAS MADE IT VERY PLANE IN EXODUS 20:2-11 & DEUTERONOMY
4:19,23-26; 17:2-6 THAT HE HATES IDOLATRY! AND, THE MOON AND IT’S
LUNAR SABBATH ARE IDOLATRY! ONE OF THE “ABOMINATION’S THAT MAKE
DESOLATE” - MATTHEW 24:15.

• Yirmeyahu (Jer) 31:35-36 Thus said YHWH, who gives the sun for a
light by day, and the laws of the moon by night, who stirs up the sea,
and its waves roar – YHWH of hosts is His Name: “If these laws (of the
MOON) vanish before Me,” declares YHWH, “then the seed of Yisra’el
shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”

So, what is the “Law of the Moon”?

ANSWER: It Gives Light at Night to dispel the darkness by reflecting
the Light of the “Sun of Righteousness” - Genesis 1:16-18; Malachi
4:2, And, it is always “Full on the Day of our Solemn (Passover) Feast/
Moadim ” Psalms 81:3.

If, one Numbers the Days of Israel’s Year - Exodus 12:2, from the
First Day of the First Month, beginning at the First Conjunction on or
after the Spring Equinox, the Moon will always be “Full” on our
Passover Feast Day!

“It (YHWH’s Throne) shall be established for ever as the Moon (Yisrael
- Joel 2:16), and as a Faithful witness in heaven. Selah.” Psalms
89:37.

Yisrael is to Follow YHWH!
So. Where is the Command From YHWH’s own lips that we are to follow
the Moon, through it’s phases?

O Yericho! City of the Moon, YHWH will deal with you, just as He did
in Yoshua 6 - REPENT!.

YHWH Did Not create the Moon to Rule/Reign/Mark HIS 7th Day Shabbath
Day!
“But then, if you Believe Not his (Moshe’s) Writings/Torah, how shall
you Believe My (Yahwshua’s) Words.” ... “The Son of Man (Yahwshua) is
Ruler/King of the Shabbath Day”! John 5:47; Matthew 12:8.

3 “Who shall ascend into the Mountain of YHWH? or who shall stand in
His Sanctified Place?

4 He that has Clean Hands, and a Pure Heart; who has not lifted up his
soul/hand unto vanity/idols, nor lied/sworn deceitfully.

5 He shall receive the blessing from YHWH, and Righteousness from the
Elohiym of his Salvation/Yahwshua.

6 This is the generation of them (the Remnant of Yisrael) that seek
Him (YHWH), that seek Your Face, O Elohiym of Yacob. Selah. ” Psalms
24:3-6.

“And they shall see His Face; and His Name (YHWH-777) Shall be in
their foreheads.” Revelation 22:4.

YHWH’s servants,
Yisrael-Lights-777,
Ralph & Beverly

Comment by June Shaw on November 5, 2009 at 6:57pm
Indeed, Truth is an absolute. Most of us have been taught many "facts"
that are claimed to be truth in our lives, but if we yearn to know the
Truth, Yahweh leads us and gives us the Truth as a free gift. Truth is
a Narrow Way, and once we deviate from the path we travel further and
further away from Him. There is Light at the end of the Narrow Way,
and darkness and stumbling along the the road that deviates.
We saw the ultimate result of this when Yahshua stood before His
"judges". They were looking at Truth but could not see it as their
vision was clouded over by sin and hatred for that Truth.

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 6, 2009 at 4:50am
Delete Comment Hi Beverly,

Them’s pretty strong words there. Your delivery has much to be
desired; because you can make people feel condemned as if you are
speaking down to them. This does not seem like a rebuke in love
because first of all you should reason from the Scriptures and
although you have thrown many Scriptures out there, you have used them
to brow-beat – so to speak. So all I’m saying is – you might work on
your delivery. In your article, I’m assuming it’s yours, there was
very very little explained about how you keep the calendar and how you
correlate your understanding with Scripture.

You said, “If, one Numbers the Days of Israel’s Year - Exodus 12:2,
from the First Day of the First Month, beginning at the First
Conjunction on or after the Spring Equinox, the Moon will always be
“Full” on our Passover Feast Day!”

In other words, as I quoted you above – I can’t tell if you are the
“if one” and if this is indeed your starting point to start numbering
the days can you please explain to me why you use the moon to start
it? Now it seems in your article you are relentlessly bashing those
who keep the lunar reckoning. But if you do as “if one” the whole
beginning of the year is based on the moon. I believe the year is
based on the sun, unless you consider it as the Scripture says: this
is the beginning of months for you, it is the first month/moon of the
year. I did not hear you anywhere explain how your understanding fits
in with this. Is it just me? Or does this seem illogical to anyone
else? So please explain if the calendar is based on numbering days
which you do not find Yahuah commanding you to number the days to get
to seven, as a matter of fact, if you would study Leviticus 23 you
might just find that the first appointment as in appointed time is
working six days – not numbering six days. So there is a little
something you may want to update in your article, because the
Scripture specifically says the six work days are appointed.

You asked, “So. Where is the Command From YHWH’s own lips that we are
to follow the Moon, through it’s phases?”

The Torah says: the moon is for mo’edim – mo’edim is plural meaning
more than one. So Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread – is not the
only mo’edim. Your article listed the mo’edim; except for the six work
days, and the Torah says here the moon is for mo’edim and you say it’s
not. Anyway, Yahuah’s own lips didn’t say “follow the phases” but He
did say the moon is for mo’edim – so we follow the moon to get to the
appointed times. So I will ask you this – where did Yahuah say with
His own lips “Number six days and rest the seventh”, see you can’t
find that; because you don’t number the days to get to the seventh.
But there is absolute proof in Scripture that of numbering days to get
to a mo’ed and that is Feast of First-fruits. See, He specifically
said number 50 days and have your Sabbath but He did not say number
six days and rest the seventh. There is another check against your
understanding that I basically know nothing about because you spend
most of your time blasting somebody else’s understanding rather than
sharing your insight and revelation - if indeed it is of a qodesh
nature. Again, your delivery needs a brush up.

You accused, “TO MAKE THE CREATED MOON RULE/RAIN ANYTHING OTHER THAN
THE NIGHT, IS PUTTING THE MOON GODDESS SIN BEFORE YHWH AND IS SETTING
UP THE MOON IN YHWH’S SEAT! - 2 Thessalonians 2:4.”

So what are you doing by starting the year or your count according to
the moon? If it wasn’t for that dang full moon you could start it
wherever you wanted, right? The truth is I would rather see an
understanding shown and based in Scripture rather than trying to scare
somebody into following your understanding; which I have shown there
is some things that need to be addressed. Also there were some
questions that I had asked in my earlier post that I didn’t find any
kind of answer or response to; maybe you didn’t see it – those
questions are still unanswered.

Greg and dawn

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 6, 2009 at 4:53am
Delete Comment Another thing,

You said, "SO, HOW CAN IT, THE MOON, THEN REIGN THE DAY? YHWH’s
SHABBATH IS A DAY!"

The Scripture says the sun rules the day and the moon rules the night;
but I see your point about day, day, day. So how can you have a full
moon on your chag day? That's kind of an oxymoron, isn't it? One other
thing I'd like to hear you explain away (or try to) is the fact that
all the mo'edim are directly related to the days of the moon. Such as
~

‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the moon/chôdesh 2320, you
have a rest, a remembrance of blowing of trumpets, a set-apart
gathering.

This is a Sabbath day that is appointed by the moon because the moon
is changing – it’s going from the old month to the new month, thus
becoming the first day of the 7th month. It seems your understanding
is based on seasons? Counting periods of ….what?? 30 – 31 days? Is
this based on the Enochian calendar? Jubliees? Dead Sea Scrolls? So
how do you know when a new “month” – oh, you can’t use month because
month is based on moon – so we’ll call it a period - begins to start
another count to get to 10, 14, 15, I mean, if you were counting days
wouldn’t you start at one and by the end of the year you’d be at 365?
So if it’s a continual count 1-7 you would never get to 10, 14, or 15.
If you count to 365 you would only have 1-10, 1-14, and 1-15. So how
do you know when to stop and start counting again for a new period of
time, as the seasons change??? If the luminaries were appointed then
what are their signs to tell you when to stop and start your period?

You said, "Psalms 81:3-5 - “Sound the Rams Horn IN the New/First Month
(#2320), IN the Time Appointed (#3677 = “when the Moon is full”), on
the Day of our Solemn Feast/Moadim (Passover); this is a Decree/Law
for Israel, an Ordinance of the Elohiym of Yacob. He (YHWH)
established it (Passover) as a Statute for Yoseph when he went out
against Egypt.”"

You are using Psalms 81:3-5 and tying it in with the Passover but how
do you know this isn’t referring to the first day of the 7th month?
Again, here’s the Scripture that shows that the first day of the 7th
month is the 2320 chodesh –

‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the moon/chôdesh 2320, you
have a rest, a remembrance of blowing of trumpets, a set-apart
gathering.

So why aren’t you starting your count from here? After all, this does
represent ‘in the beginning’ doesn’t it? Feast of Shouting – you know,
when all the messengers shouted for joy? When the foundations of the
earth were laid, you know the Lamb slain from the foundation of the
earth?

Besides, how do you get "first month", ours says 'first of the month'
not first month; as in first moon of the year. Can you show any 'thus
sayeth Yahuah' that the first day of the first moon is a special
anything? Besides just the beginning of another moon - it just so
happens it's just the first moon of the year.

Thanks for your consideration.

Greg and dawn

Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 6, 2009 at 10:22pm
Shalom All,

And Yes Greg & Dawn, those are pretty strong words; they are sharp and
very pointed, that is how YHWH designed them. That is how He often
gets the attention of those who are in error. How do I know this,
well, that is how YHWH got our attention.

“Think not that I (Yahwshua Ha Mashiyach) am come to send peace on
earth: I came not to send peace, but a Sword (of Truth).”
Matthew 10:34.

“For the WORD of YHWH is Living and Powerful. Sharper than any Two-
Edged Sword,
It penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow (It
cut away the Fat/Sin out of our lives - Exodus 23:18; Leviticus
3:16,17);

It judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Nothing in all Creation is hidden from YHWH's sight.

Everything is Uncovered and Laid bare before the eyes of HIM to Whom
we ALL must give account.” Hebrews 4:12,13.

YHWH’s Message for this last generation is Not a peace and safety
message. And His Bride has little Time left to make herself ready -
Revelation 11.

We have just shared with you the message YHWH gave us to give to all
True Yisrael-Lights Indeed, those who have ears to hear what the
Spirit of Truth says unto the MowadYah, that we all may come to a FULL
KNOWLEDGE of the Truth and be arrayed in Beautiful White Robes of
Righteousness, “without spot or wrinkle” - Revelation 19:6-9;
Ephesians 5:26.27.

When we first discovered about 22 years ago now, that Saturday on that
Abominable Roman Babylonian (Christian & Jewish) Calendar was not
YHWH’s True Shabbath, YHWH’s Sword of Truth pierced clear to the bone.
At that time we were Mooned also; we too followed the Moon wheresoever
it went. Then we discovered it is the One & Only YHWH YAHWSHUA, that
His flock Yisrael are to Follow! And NO other! YHWH YAHWSHUA is the
Sun of Righteousness, and it is He Who is the One & Only One Who rules/
reigns the Day and the Shabbath Day! and Not the Moon Goddess Apostate
Israel/Laodicea/Churchanity!

And, we know it is not easy giving up the Moon Goddess Sin, for she
weaves a web of very cunningly devised Babylonian Jewish fables and
lying wonders. But, until we freed ourselves form her web or lies,
tore down her brick walls, and broke down her abominable alters, and
gave her up to be consumed completely by fire on YHWH’s alter, we
could neither see nor understand completely the Appointed Times of our
Creator/Saviour YHWH. And, until you want TRUTH, like you want your
next breath of fresh air, you will not see, understand or know the
True Ways of YHWH; for, His Ways are only for those who Love YHWH with
ALL their Heart, and with all their Soul and with All their Might -
Deuteronomy 6:4-9; 10;12,13; Matthew 13:10-17.

NOWHERE! in the TORAH does YHWH sanction the Moon to rule/reign the
Day or the Month. In our second post we discussed Genesis 1:14, and
Identified just what purpose for which YHWH created the Moon.

After we finally gave up the controlling, dominating Moon Goddess,
then YHWH let down His Heavenly Dew (Deuteromony 32:1-4) and then we
could see clearly the Righteous Ways of YHWH that lead to Life
Eternal. And now, we can Testify that YHWH Does gives His children of
Light A BETTER WAY TO NUMBER THEIR DAYS then by following the phases
of the Moon Goddess Sin. We have 21 years of Studies on “The Lost
Calendar of Israel.” Most are posted in pdf that you are free to
download from our www.TheTwo-EdgedSwordOfTruth.org website, or if you
wish I can email them to you. Just ask. “And weather you hear or
weather you forebear”; that alone is your decision and your choice, -
Ezekiel 2:5,7; 3:11,27; YHWH is your Judge, not us.

We will not argue with any over these points; it is enough that YHWH
has shown us from His TORAH that the Lunar Shabbath is Strange Fire
Indeed! and that we should avoid it like the plague! The TRUTH is
there in the TORAH, just waiting to be Discovered by any who desire to
put forth the effort to dig it out from beneath man’s rubbish of
idols, traditions, and false testimony; And “Then, shall we Follow on
to Know YHWH.” - Hosea 6:3.

IT is everyone’s DUTY to search out the TRUTH for themselves
individually. Our studies are only there to point, guide and direct
those who truly desire to Feast upon the Bread of Life and who Thirst
for the Living Waters of the TORAH, and who TRULY want to KNOW HIM &
LOVE HIM, WHO IS “THE WAY, THE TRUTH & THE LIFE” YHWH YAHWSHUA HA
MASHIYACH.

All Doctrine Must be Tested and Weighed thoroughly in the Torah, just
as we have sought to do. If you have questions or find us in error on
any point, it is your YHWH-given duty to show us from the Torah where
we do err. But, bring your two or three witnesses for the TORAH! Not
man’s sayings, and/or preconceived ideas & traditions.

THE LOST CALENDAR OF YISRAEL:
#1 - YHWH’s children of Light are to Number the Days of Yisrael’s Year
from the beginning of the First Day, of the First Month, as Commanded
in Exodus 12:2; see also Genesis 1:3-5, which begins on the First
Conjunction on or after the Spring Equinox. Once the First Day of the
Year is Established, you simply begin Numbering your Days from Day
One.

#2 - The Day is measured by the Sun’s Light “And the Evening and the
Morning were the First Day” ... “At Even/Noon, from Even/Noon unto
Even/Noon” ... “At the going down of the sun” - Genesis 1:5, Exodus
12:6; Leviticus 23:32; Deuteronomy 16:6. The First Day (Day One) of
the First Month is also where you begin Numbering your 7 Day Week for
the Year - Genesis 1:3-2:3.

#3 - The Spring Equinox is the season/green ears (Exodus 13:4) of the
Year when Planet Earth has completed it’s orbit of the Sun.

#4 - The “Conjunction” is when the Sun & the Moon are Face to Face -
as Yisrael, the Bride, is to be Face to Face, with her Heavenly
Husband the Sun of Righteousness, on the First Day of each Month
having a Qodesh Convocation - Leviticus 23:24; Numbers 10:10; 28:11;
29:1 - which Months are Numbered from the First Day (Day One) of the
Year alternately 30 & 29 to the end of the year. Numbering this way,
the Days in the Months alternately 30 & 29 Days, causes the
Conjunction of the Sun & Moon to fall near the First Day of each Month
automatically. We have found nowhere in the Torah that the First Day
Of each Month must fall exactly on the Conjunction, which is an
impossibility seeing that the Moon’s cycles are not made up of a
perfect number of Days.

It is as SIMPLE as that! Just Number your Days. And what is really
amazing, is that when you Number Yisrael’s Days like this, the
confusion concerning the Timing of the Events of the Exodus and
Mashiyach’s Passover come to Light and finally Harmonize in & with the
Old & New Testimony. See our “Exodus & The Sign Of Yonah” Study.

Greg & Dawn said: “But if you do as “if one” the whole beginning of
the year is based on the moon. I believe the year is based on the sun,
unless you consider it as the Scripture says: this is the beginning of
months for you, it is the first month/moon of the year. I did not hear
you anywhere explain how your understanding fits in with this.”

Answer: We do not base the the beginning of the year on just the Moon.
The beginning of the year is based on both the Sun and the Moon, for
that is a Conjunction - Exodus 12:2.

Greg & Dawn said: So what are you doing by starting the year or your
count according to the moon?

Answer: We start Yisrael’s Year as YHWH Commands in Exodus 12:2 which
involves both the Sun & the Moon, which is the First Conjunction on or
after the Spring Equinox.

Greg & Dawn said: If Genesis 1:3-5 is the first unit of measurement of
time then shouldn’t that be the starting point? I mean that’s the
first thing He did was establish the six days of work and day of rest.
So is there any way to tell if there is a mo’ed/appointed time that
represents “in the beginning”?

Answer: Yes, Genesis 1:3-5 is the “Starting Point” - It is the First
Day of The First Month of Planet Earth’s Very First New Year, a
Conjunction. And we see here that YHWH was Creating/Working on that
Day. Also we have the Testimony in Exodus 40:1,2 that YHWH Commanded
Yisrael to set up the Tabernacle of Congregation on the First Day of
the First Month. The First Day of every Month seems to be a Work Day,
contrary to the thinking of some; but, there is a difference in the
Work that YHWH requires that can be done on that Day; in other words,
who are you serving on the New Month Day, is it YHWH or man?

Greg & Dawn said: I would suggest that “in the beginning” is
represented by the New Moon of the 7th month – a memorial of shouting.

Answer: We do not find that to be True. The Testimony in Exodus 12:2 &
13:4 makes it very clear that it was “Abib” Spring (green ears) that
is to be the Beginning of Yisrael’s New Year. We all can suppose and
surmise, but it is a “Thus says YHWH” that establishes a matter and we
have not found such testimony for the First Day of the 7th Month to be
the beginning of Yisrael’s Year.

The First Day of the Seventh (Leviticus 23:24,25) Is a “Shabbathown” -
#7677 (a Special Day of Blowing of Trumpets), and is Not a 7th Day
Shabbath Day - #7676. We believe Feast Of Trumpets was to be the
Memorial of Trumpets in Yoshua 6, where the walls of Yericho, the City
of the Moon Goddess Sin came tumbling down, clear to the ground. Where
else in Yisrael’s history do you find such a Blowing of Trumpets &
Shouting. More than likely, Yericho is where the Abominable Lunar
Sabbath was conceived.

Greg & Dawn said: So when you get to the first day of the 7th month
with your count does it line up? Do you have a new moon – six days of
work – and a day of rest? If you begin your count on the first day of
the first month where do you start your count? Is day one the new moon
day of the first month? Or is it day two of the month that begins your
six days work and one day rest? If I knew that then I could calculate
forward to see if your Sabbath falls on the 22nd day of the 2nd month
as in the Scriptures. If it does, you should be able to continue
through your count to the 15th day of the 7th month and there should
be a full moon on that day. Does this occur according to your count?

Answer: Yes, the moon will be full on the 15th Day of the 7th Month.
We have answered most of the other questions above. If you would like
to know if they all line up, just Number your Day and Test it for
yourself in the TORAH; that is the way we all learn to know if it is
Truth or Error. The Lunar Sabbath does not line up with the Torah
Testimony.

Example: the Lunar Sabbatarians say the 15th Day of every Month is
always a 7th Day Shabbath, but if that is True then according to
Numbers 33:3 the children of Israel took their “flight” and were
traveling on the Sabbath Day. “But Pray you that your Flight be not in
the winter, neither on the Shabbath Day.” Matthew 24:20. YHWH would
not have the children of Yisrael breaking His Shabbath Law.

Greg & Dawn said: Revelation describes the woman standing on the moon
clothed with the sun – is she paying homage to the luminaries? Or is
she only heeding the instructions that are given in Genesis 1:14? The
luminaries were given for us to keep track of days, years, and
appointed times with signs.

Answer: Yes, she is paying homage to the luminaries, Ezekiel 8 makes
this very evident, and so does the Testimony below;

Hosea 14:1 - Yisrael, return unto YHWH your Elohiym; for You have
fallen by your iniquity.

Yeremiyah 3:21 - “A voice was heard upon the high places (Idolatry),
weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have
perverted their way, and they have forgotten YHWH their Elohiym.”

Yeremiyah 5:4 - “Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are
foolish: for they Know Not the WAY of YHWH, nor the Judgment of their
Elohiym.”

Yeremiyah 8:7 - “Yea, the stork in the heaven knows her appointed
times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the Time
of their coming; but My people know not the Judgment/Times/Ways of
YHWH.”

At the time of Mashiyach, Israel were Lost Sheep, they had forgotten
YHWH’s WAYS for the ways of Baalim - the Sun, Moon & Stars.

Hosea 2:5-11 - “For their mother (Apostate Israel) has played the
harlot: she that conceived them has done shamefully: for she said, I
will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool
and my flax, mine oil and my drink.

6 Therefore, behold, I (YHWH) will hedge up your way with thorns, and
make a wall, that she shall not find her Paths.

7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake
them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she
say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better
with me than now.

8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and
multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.

9 Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof,
and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my
flax given to cover her nakedness.

10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers,
and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.

11 I will also cause all her mirth/joy to CEASE, her Feast days, her
New Months (#2320), and her Sabbaths, and all her Solemn Feasts.”

12 And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she has
said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will
make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them
(Revelation 17:1-5).

13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned
incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her
jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgot Me, saith YHWH.

No, the Women of Revelation 12:1 standing on the Moon Goddess, Clothed
with the Sun-god and the 12 Star-gods on her head was not virtuous and
she is Apostate Israel. A virtuous Women would be standing on the Rock
or her Salvation, cleansed of all Sun, Moon & Star gods.

Most likely in the Beginning in Eden the luminaries did all line up
with perfect Days & Months in the Year, but since the Great Deluge in
Genesis 7 & 8, the result of man’s wickedness, that is not True
anymore. That is Why YHWH has given His Children of Light a Better Way
to Number their Earth Days.

Greg & Dawn said: That is a gross accusation to say if one uses them
to tell time that they are paying homage to them.

Answer: That might be a gross accusation, but nevertheless it is True.
Israel is gross & she is in gross darkness! She was and is in
apostasy, and she has lost All the WAYS of YHWH! And that is why YHWH
pleads for Yisrael to return unto Him so He can Teach her His Ways and
to Walk in His Paths once again as He taught the children of Yisrael
in the wilderness:

“Even from the days of your fathers you are gone away from mine
ordinances, and have Not kept them. Return unto Me, and I will return
unto you, saith YHWH of hosts. But you said, Wherein shall we return?”
Malachi 3:7; see also Isayah 2:3.

Greg & Dawn said: If you consider a day to start when the sun comes up
are you paying homage to the “sun god”?

Answer: Yes! Because Planet Earth’s Day does not begin at sunrise.
“And the Evening & the Morning were the First Day” on Planet Earth -
Genesis 1:5.

Greg & Dawn said: If we start a month at the new moon are we paying
homage to the moon?

Answer: Yes! If you calculate your New Month by the sliver, you are
paying homage to the Moon, because there is NO Testimony in the TORAH
for such; that is a Babylonian Jewish tradition.


Isayah 55:6-11 - “Seek you YHWH while He may be found, call you upon
him while he is near:

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his
thoughts: and let him return unto YHWH, and He will have mercy upon
him; and to our Elohiym, for He will abundantly pardon.

8 For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My
Ways, saith YHWH.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My Ways higher
than your ways, and My Thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns
not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud,
that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall My Word be that go forth out of My mouth: it shall not
return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and
it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Blessings to all of you in your search for YHWH’s True Ways,
Yisrael-Lights,
Ralph & Beverly

Comment by Rob Meyers on November 7, 2009 at 2:13pm
To me this seems to be getting nowhere. One claims the timing by the
moon and one claims the timing by the sun. How about letting YHWH be
the leader here ? Instead of worshipping the moon or the sun, the
creation, let's worship the Creator !
I've read the thoughts of the Lunar people and I've read the thoughts
of the solar people, and yet I have to see any of the ones that keeps
their timing from sundown Friday to sun down Saturday.
All this back and forth about whos right and hows wrong isn't getting
nowhere. It takes YHWH to change the heart and mind and His way is the
correct way.

Comment by Connie on November 7, 2009 at 2:43pm
You are right Rob ! It does take YHWH to show each of us His truth. We
are all on different levels on our walk with Abba. Some understandings
are different then others. As we grow in the knowledge and wisdom we
have to make the changes that goes along with it.
In these discussions, what we're seeing is the difference in knowledge
and opinion.
You keep believing the way you do, but at the same time, be open and
allow the Ruach ha Kodesh to show you new things. This is what Eriq
was talking about in one of his discussions awhile back. As we grow in
the knowledge of our Heavenly Abba, we'll learn new and exciting
things found in the scriptures. New truths that we never saw before.
Then its up to us to follow through on these new found truths and
search them out. Try the door before casting it away as not being the
truth. Its a growing process we all go through.

Comment by Dale Trottier on November 8, 2009 at 9:16am
Shalom All,

Yes, the Jewish Messiah came not bring not peace, but a sword, to
divide those who love the Light from those who would remain hidden
from this same Light. Yet, He does not wield this sword, His Word, in
the manner that some believe.

Abba YHVH is the Perfect Gentleman, having not need to engage in the
meaningless ways of men, accusing, debating, and otherwise bludgeoning
another so that He can prove His point, showing Himself to be right
and another to be wrong. These are the tactics of the enemy of Love
and all things Good.

Perhaps consider this:

What happens when you are in a totally dark room and you suddenly turn
on a light? Does the light run all around the room trying to gather
the various articles in the room to itself? Or does the light simply
shine from where it is placed, exposing all that was once covered in
darkness to the light? As you move closer to the light, the view of
that which is in the room becomes clearer, and as you move farther
away from the light, the opposite is true also. Once the light is
turned off, complete and utter darkness swallows up that which was
once exposed to the light. The only thing that can possibly overcome
this complete and utter darkness is the presence of some light, for
there are varying degrees of light, but darkness is simply defined as
the absence of light, therefore, dark is dark.

The same is true of the Light that shines through men.

Now this Light continues to shine in the darkness, exposing all that
is contained therein. Man has had 6 days/6,000 years to come out of
the darkness and into the Light, the only way to return to our first
estate. Those who have chosen to do so will continue to be drawn
closer to the Light by Abba YHVH Himself, according to their heart's
desire, and those who have chosen to remain in the darkness will
continue to be unable to comprehend that which is spoken by the Light,
also according to their heart's desire.

Dale

Comment by Connie on November 8, 2009 at 11:30am
I agree with you Dale fully. As each of us grows in the knowledge that
Abba has given us at that point in our lives, this is what we go with.

None of us knows what plans Abba has for each of us day by day as His
ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. Abba
knows what each person is limited to in understanding, and until HE
gives more knowledge and understanding, we cannot go around brow
beating our brothers and sisters and by saying they are serving pagan
idols just because they do not keep Shabbat the same way. By saying
this I am seeing it said because the Shabbat keepers that keeps their
Shabbats on Friday evening to Saturday evening are worshipping in
paganism ? This statement would also say you are calling Abba YHWH
pagan ?
BE VERY CAREFUL OF YOUR WORDS !!!!!

Dale brought out some very good points and I suggest we look them over
very carefully.

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 8, 2009 at 12:15pm
Delete Comment Shalom Beverly,

We still don’t know if you keep a 7 day continual cycle and reset it
once at the beginning of your year or if you keep 4 sabbaths in a
month. So I guess I’ll put that in a question form.

Do you keep a 7-day continual count and reset it at the beginning of
your year?
Do you keep the conjunction/new moon, and count to the 7th day for
Sabbath and reset it at the end of 30 or 29 days?

Please explain how you keep your count to Sabbath.

Thanks,

Greg and dawn

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 8, 2009 at 12:15pm
Delete Comment Shalom Rob,

You said, “ To me this seems to be getting nowhere. One claims the
timing by the moon and one claims the timing by the sun. How about
letting YHWH be the leader here ? Instead of worshipping the moon or
the sun, the creation, let's worship the Creator !
I've read the thoughts of the Lunar people and I've read the thoughts
of the solar people, and yet I have to see any of the ones that keeps
their timing from sundown Friday to sun down Saturday.
All this back and forth about whos right and hows wrong isn't getting
nowhere. It takes YHWH to change the heart and mind and His way is the
correct way.”

Yes, I agree with what you say here, yet there is a “but” that we must
consider. And the ‘but’ is you have discussed three ways of keeping
the Sabbath, that would be the solar, lunar, or the f-day sundown to s-
day sundown. All three of these ways are not correct. The truth has to
be desired and with that desire comes the search where you pour over
the Scriptures again and again. Some people are comfortable where they
are at and become grounded in error. The only way we can understand is
if Yahuah’s Spirit of Truth leads us and guides us to these truths. As
Connie pointed out – we are all at different places on that road. What
we think to be truth now we might find later that it is not. Our lives
must accommodate the truth.

The Scriptures teach that we should be ready to give an answer for
what we believe. That would mean that somebody is going to be asking
questions concerning your belief. Thereby, our understanding must be
grounded in the Torah. It is not wrong to question one’s belief. As a
matter of fact, we might be compelled to with Scriptures such as:

2Ti 4:1 In the sight of Elohim and the Master יהושע Messiah, who shall
judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His reign, I
earnestly charge you:
2Ti 4:2 Proclaim the Word! Be urgent in season, out of season.
Reprove, warn, appeal, with all patience and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they shall not bear sound
teaching, but according to their own desires, they shall heap up for
themselves teachers tickling the ear,

How are we to reprove, warn, or appeal with all patience and teaching?
Hopefully, we have been a tov/good example of this with Beverly.
Because what we have written to Beverly is not necessarily for her –
but for others who might be caught up in this to see that what she
speaks is not based in the Torah. Truthfully, the teaching of her
calendar is hidden in the Scriptural rebuke upon those who do not keep
the calendar as she does – that does not mean that the rebuke is
founded as a true rebuke and the way we find if her rebuke is
justified we have to examine their teaching. When their teaching is
not found in Torah then it can be dismissed. Hopefully, what we say to
Beverly will be seen as a Scripturally founded refute to her unfounded
understanding concerning the calendar. If you had noticed she has
required everyone to have two or three witnesses (according to Torah)
but she herself provides no witness in Torah or otherwise. The witness
that she does provide is obviously transformed to her belief and a
perfect example of this is when the day begins. I’m not saying she
speaks absolutely no truth at all or that she doesn’t desire the truth
but when you refute with Scripture the error becomes obvious to all.

Greg

Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 8, 2009 at 12:36pm
Shalom brother Dale,

Perhaps consider this:

“Woe unto them....that put Darkness for Light and Light for Darkness”
Isayah 5:20.

“To the Law and the Testimony: if they speak Not according to this
WORD/TORAH, it is because there is No LIGHT/TRUTH in them.” Isayah
8:20.

Dale said: Abba YHVH is the Perfect Gentleman, having not need to
engage in the meaningless ways of men, accusing, debating, and
otherwise bludgeoning another so that He can prove His point, showing
Himself to be right and another to be wrong. These are the tactics of
the enemy of Love and all things Good.

We are well aware of the tactics of the enemy of LOVE, TRUTH,
RIGHTEOUSNESS and All things good.

Just remember brother Dale, while you are pointing the finger, there
are 3 fingers pointing back at you.

The Lunar Sabbath in Not found in the TORAH! If you have 2 or 3
witnesses from the TORAH that show otherwise, then please bring them
forth and show us our error and quit judging & condemning others for
Presenting the LIGHT that they have received from YHWH.

If you are following the Moon to establish YHWH’s Shabbath Day, then
you are walking in Darkness, because the moon rules the darkness. The
Moon has NO Light of Her own! YHWH’s Children of LIGHT will get ALL of
their Light form the “Sun of Righteousness” found in His TORAH!

John 3:17-21 - “For YHWH sent not His Son into the world to condemn
the world; but that the world through Him YAHWSHUA might be saved.

18 He that believes on Him is not Condemned: but he that believes Not
is CONDEMNED already, because he has not believed in the Name of the
only begotten Son of YHWH.

19 And this is the CONDEMNATION, that LIGHT is come into the world,
and men Loved Darkness rather than LIGHT, because their deeds were
evil.

20 For every one that does evil hates the LIGHT, neither comes to the
LIGHT, lest his deeds should be REPROVED.

21 But he that does TRUTH comes to the LIGHT, that his deeds may be
made Manifest, that they are wrought in YHWH ELOHIYM.”

BOTHER DALE: THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE SOUGHT TO DO! WE HAVE PRESENTED WHAT
YHWH HAS GIVEN US TO GIVE TO HIS TRUE ISRAEL-LIGHTS INDEED. NOW IT IS
EACH & EVERYONE’S DUTY TO SEARCH & SEE IF THESE THINGS ARE TRULY SO.

SO THAT, ONE MAY COME TO A FULL “KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THAT THEY
MIGHT BE SAVED” AND All MAY BECOME THE “CHILDREN OF LIGHT” - 1 Timothy
2:4; John 12:35,36.

As we said before: “We will not argue with any over these points; it
is enough that YHWH has shown us from His TORAH that the Lunar
Shabbath is Strange Fire Indeed! and that we should avoid it like the
plague! The TRUTH is there in the TORAH, just waiting to be Discovered
by any who desire to put forth the effort to dig it out from beneath
man’s rubbish of error, idols, traditions, and false testimony, so
they can Walk in It; And “Then, shall we know, if we Follow on to Know
YHWH.” - Hosea 6:3.

All Doctrine Must be Tested and Weighed thoroughly in the Torah, just
as we have sought to do. If you have questions or find us in error on
any point, it is your YHWH-given duty to show us from the Torah where
we do err. But, bring your two or three witnesses for the TORAH! Not
man’s sayings, and/or preconceived ideas & traditions.

IT is everyone’s DUTY to search out the TRUTH for themselves
individually. Our studies are only there to point, guide and direct
those who truly desire to Feast upon the Bread of Life and who Thirst
for the Living Waters of the TORAH, and who TRULY want to KNOW HIM &
LOVE HIM WITH ALL THEIR HEART, - THE TRUE ONE, WHO IS “THE WAY, THE
TRUTH & THE LIFE” YHWH YAHWSHUA HA MASHIYACH.”

Blessings to all of YHWH’s Children of Light,
YHWH’s Yisrael-Lights,
Ralph & Beverly


Comment by Rob Meyers on November 8, 2009 at 12:47pm
Shalom Greg and Dawn,
Correct you are that the truth has to be desired. But when a person
starts elevating themselves to tell someone else that they are wrong
in what they have first learned, how does this person know this is
just a stepping stone for further advancing towards the truth ? Its
like some bully comes along and shoves you off the stepping stone you
are on pushing you back into the water of worldly life.
Don't you think its better to aproach a person in love and kindness as
Yahshua did ? Instead of stabbing a person with that sword that
Beverly said YHWH has came to do.
I am always willing to reason with a person, but I'm not going to sit
quietly and allow someone to call my Heavenly Father pagan. I know
what I know because of HIM. This is what HE taught me.
And until I discover more truth this is all I have to go on.
Dale is right in his writings that Abba is the perfect gentleman. And
He isn't going to stab anyone with a sword but the WICKED !
If this is what YHWH wants me to learn, then He's going to show me,
and I know its going to be with gentleness and kindness, not with a
sword.

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 8, 2009 at 3:28pm
Delete Comment Beverly,

Can you please explain to us why you deleted our post? I find that
quite odd as you say "All Doctrine Must be Tested and Weighed
thoroughly in the Torah, just as we have sought to do. If you have
questions or find us in error on any point, it is your YHWH-given duty
to show us from the Torah where we do err. But, bring your two or
three witnesses for the TORAH! Not man’s sayings, and/or preconceived
ideas & traditions."

That tells me a lot about you. We present Scriptural evidence and show
you from the Torah that you are in err and you delete it? Why are you
hiding it? You can't make the truth go away. You can delete it, but
truth is truth.

Boy we're glad we saved that in Word - and if anybody wants to see how
Beverly was shown Scriptural evidence from the Torah that her
understanding was flawed you can find it on our blog post. You see,
we've learned about people that do this type of thing. We save
EVERYTHING.

http://remnantofyisrael.ning.com/profiles/blogs/what-is-yhwh-doing-in-my-life-1

Greg and dawn

[i]****This is a copy of the posting that was put up on Beverly
Wheeler's blog which she deleted without answering. In this post you
will find Scriptural evidence refuting some of her beliefs.

She has stated "All Doctrine Must be Tested and Weighed thoroughly in
the Torah, just as we have sought to do. If you have questions or find
us in error on any point, it is your YHWH-given duty to show us from
the Torah where we do err. But, bring your two or three witnesses for
the TORAH! Not man’s sayings, and/or preconceived ideas & traditions."

So is Beverly Wheeler speaking the truth? Decide for yourself. ******[/
i]


You said, “And Yes Greg & Dawn, those are pretty strong words; they
are sharp and very pointed, that is how YHWH designed them. That is
how He often gets the attention of those who are in error. How do I
know this, well, that is how YHWH got our attention.”

Yes, Yahuah’s words are very strong and we accept Yahuah’s word for
what it says but I must ask you – did He appoint you as a prophet? Did
He appoint you to tell everyone that they are steeped in “luminary
worship”? The truth is – for everything that you claim that others are
worshipping the luminaries there are many points that can be turned
back on you to say the same thing – such as beginning the day at high
noon; therefore, you are letting the sun determine when the day
starts. Is that worshipping the sun? Even though your definition of
evening is not Scriptural (which is Scripturally proven, by
definition) and is backed up by many many Scriptures – in other words
there are more than two witnesses to show that evening means “dusk –
the mixing period”. There is a word in the Scipture that means ‘noon
day’.

Psa 55:17 Evening (6153) and morning (1242) and at noon (6672) I
complain and moan, And He hears my voice.

H6672
צהר
tsôhar

From H6671; a light (that is, window); dual double light, that is,
noon: - midday, noon (-day, -tide), window.

Gen 1:5 And Elohim called the light ‘day’ and the darkness He called
‘night.’ And there came to be evening (6153) and there came to be
morning (1242), the first day.

H1242
בּקר
bôqer
From H1239; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning: -
(+) day, early, morning, morrow.

H6153
ערב
‛ereb
From H6150; dusk: - + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

As we can see that evening and noon day are not the same thing;
therefore, right from the very beginning we see that your
understanding is flawed. It would seem as if you are using the going
down of the sun to be from its highest point and travelling down – the
going down of the sun.

Deu 16:6 but at the place where יהוה your Elohim chooses to make His
Name dwell, there you slaughter the Passover in the evening, at the
going down (935) of the sun, at the appointed time you came out of
Mitsrayim.


H935
בּוא
bô'
A primitive root; to go or come

Notice it says “in the evening at the going down of the sun” it seems
that you are making these two synonymous with your understanding of
“the going down of the sun” to be from noon forward. Which you would
have to say is a common everyday happening, but as we read in this
next Scripture – it is not.

Amo 8:9 “And it shall be in that day,” declares the Master יהוה, “that
I shall cause the sun to go down (935) at noon (6672), and shall
darken the earth on a day of brightness,

According to this verse Yahuah caused the sun to go down at noon;
which means that it is not something that happens every day and the
word for sun to “go down” is the same word used in Deut. 16:6 for
“going down” of the sun. Also notice that the Master Yahuah likens
“the sun to go down” as a time of darkening the earth. Therefore, the
going down of the sun is directly related to the darkening process
that takes place at evening before night and its total darkness.

You said, “We have just shared with you the message YHWH gave us to
give to all True Yisrael-Lights “

Please explain this a little more. I like to understand a little bit
about the person who is “delivering a message from YHWH”. You said,
“..gave us” can you explain how He gave you to give to all “true
Yisrael”? Are you a prophet? Yes or no. How exactly did “YHWH give you
this message”? Was it through studying only? Is there a direct verbal
communication? Such as the Spirit of Truth speaking to you in such a
manner that is audible, you said:

“And they use this Truth, knowingly or unknowingly, to ensnare and
deceive those who have not yet the knowledge and understanding to
discern between the Spirit Of Truth & the Lying Spirit!”

So this spirit that is working with you – I guess you are saying that
you have discerned between the Spirit of Truth and the lying spirit.
So does this relate to the message Yahuah gave you? Please explain. I
would like to know if you proved the spirit or if you are discerning
the spirits. Because there can be false discernment to lead people
astray. There is also a difference between proving a spirit and
discerning a spirit. So if you truly have a message that we need to
hear and is based in Scripture as you say,

“Many use Psalms 89:37 to prove that the Moon is to be used to measure
the Month & the 7th Day
Shabbath, [b]but where is the evidence and the 2 or 3 witnesses that
are required in the Torah for such Doctrine[/b]? - See Numbers 17:6;
Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; John 8:17.”

And

“And, that is the Scriptural Evidence, and that is the Observable
Evidence, and that is the Scientific Evidence. The 3 Agree! That is 3
Witnesses! - Deuteronomy 19:15; Isayah 43:9.”

So we can see that you use Scriptural evidence, observable evidence,
and scientific evidence and these are your three witnesses. So you
would have to agree that you would have to have one indication in
Torah. The rest can be outside of Torah? So let’s remember what you
said here.

You said, “When we first discovered about 22 years ago now, that
Saturday on that Abominable Roman Babylonian (Christian & Jewish)
Calendar was not YHWH’s True Shabbath, YHWH’s Sword of Truth pierced
clear to the bone. At that time we were Mooned also; we too followed
the Moon wheresoever it went. Then we discovered it is the One & Only
YHWH YAHWSHUA, that His flock Yisrael are to Follow! And NO other!
YHWH YAHWSHUA is the Sun of Righteousness, and it is He Who is the One
& Only One Who rules/reigns the Day and the Shabbath Day! and Not the
Moon Goddess Apostate Israel/Laodicea/Churchanity!”

Well, I would agree the Yahusha is the Sun of Righteousness in that
His righteousness shines as the sun. But where does His righteousness
come from? It comes from His Father. Now it seems you are correlating
the sun with Yahusha. Does that mean you are worshipping the sun? May
I accuse you of this as you accuse us of worshipping the moon? I’m not
going to do that because I myself see an understanding of what the sun
represents and what the moon represents and I understand this from the
Torah. The sun is the greater light the moon is the lesser light and
there is much that can be discussed concerning this but not at this
time.

You said, “And, we know it is not easy giving up the Moon Goddess Sin,
for she weaves a web of very cunningly devised Babylonian Jewish
fables and lying wonders. But, until we freed ourselves form her web
or lies, tore down her brick walls, and broke down her abominable
alters, and gave her up to be consumed completely by fire on YHWH’s
alter, we could neither see nor understand completely the Appointed
Times of our Creator/Saviour YHWH.”

Where did you get moon goddess at? A little research showed us there
is no moon goddess Sin. But the Sumerians called the time of the
crescent new moon Sin – the god of the moon – male. It is an
interesting thing what you do with an English word ‘sin’ that means
transgression of the law and apply it to what you call your ‘moon
goddess sin’. Isn’t that really exciting that the English word sin is
the same word used by the Sumerians for their crescent moon? ? ? And
by the way, we don’t use the crescent to determine when the month
begins. But the crescent might be the sign to know when the first day
of the work week begins. But of course, you think it is sin to have
the luminaries to give signs which is exactly what they are appointed
to do in Genesis 1:14. So if observing the luminaries (the moon) and
the Scriptures say there is a specific sign such as a full moon on
your Feast day, why do you believe it is sin to observe this? If there
is a sign on the 15th day of the month in the moon is there not signs
for every day of the month in the moon?

What is this about putting the “moon goddess sin” on YHWH’s alter??
When I read that it kind of disturbed me a little bit. Can you show me
in Torah where we are commanded to put any idols or any false elohim
or any unclean thing on Yahuah’s altars? From my understanding if
there are idols that need to be destroyed they need to be taken out of
the temple possibly to somewhere like the wadi Qidron and burned with
fire there. At least that is the Scriptural method for cleansing the
Temple.

Continuing you said, “And, until you want TRUTH, like you want your
next breath of fresh air, you will not see, understand or know the
True Ways of YHWH; for, His Ways are only for those who Love YHWH with
ALL their Heart, and with all their Soul and with All their Might -
Deuteronomy 6:4-9; 10;12,13; Matthew 13:10-17.”

So are you assuming that we don’t want the truth? And we’re not going
to understand, right? I remember you saying somewhere Yahuah judges
the thoughts and intents of the heart, but it is obvious by what you
say and how you say it that you are judging the thoughts and intents
of our hearts. The proof is in what you said “and until you want truth
like you want your next breath of fresh air”. Judge away.
You said, “NOWHERE! in the TORAH does YHWH sanction the Moon to rule/
reign the Day or the Month. In our second post we discussed Genesis
1:14, and Identified just what purpose for which YHWH created the
Moon.”

No, the moon does not rule the day and the day by definition is the
light portion and by the way – Yahuah did not say there are two light
portions to one day. But as far as the month, all appointed times are
by the moon and that is what the Scriptures say – the 14th day of the
moon/month. See, you need to prove from Scripture that month is not
related to moon. You need to prove that new moon does not refer to the
day that light is received into it. You are making a big deal out of
something that is obvious to even the lunar reckoning people – I can’t
help it that you thought the moon ruled the day when you were keeping
the lunar reckoning, but most of us don’t see it that way, at least
the people we’ve met.

You said, “After we finally gave up the controlling, dominating Moon
Goddess, then YHWH let down His Heavenly Dew (Deuteromony 32:1-4) and
then we could see clearly the Righteous Ways of YHWH that lead to Life
Eternal. And now, we can Testify that YHWH Does gives His children of
Light A BETTER WAY TO NUMBER THEIR DAYS then by following the phases
of the Moon Goddess Sin. We have 21 years of Studies on “The Lost
Calendar of Israel.” Most are posted in pdf that you are free to
download from our www.TheTwo-EdgedSwordOfTruth.org website, or if you
wish I can email them to you. Just ask. “And weather you hear or
weather you forebear”; that alone is your decision and your choice, -
Ezekiel 2:5,7; 3:11,27; YHWH is your Judge, not us.”

Well, we tried to read a little bit so far, actually I’m going to make
my wife read it because she needs a little overcoming in the area of
dealing with judgmental people that twist Scripture. She’ll keep me
updated. As we went to your website the first thing we noticed was all
the pretty stars, galaxies, and planets and such….it seems funny that
you think somebody is worshipping the moon because it tells us what
day of the month we are in so that we may keep HIS appointments and
you scream at everyone as if they are evil idolatrous luminary-lovers
and then you have pictures of the stars all over your website. What
gives?

You said, “We will not argue with any over these points; it is enough
that YHWH has shown us from His TORAH that the Lunar Shabbath is
Strange Fire Indeed! and that we should avoid it like the plague! The
TRUTH is there in the TORAH, just waiting to be Discovered by any who
desire to put forth the effort to dig it out from beneath man’s
rubbish of idols, traditions, and false testimony; And “Then, shall we
Follow on to Know YHWH.” - Hosea 6:3.”

You can use the word ‘argue’ if you’d like. I look at it the same as
the Bereans – they didn’t trust Sha’ul and I don’t trust you.
Therefore, I’m going to compare your belief with the Scriptures – just
as they did with Sha’ul. The Scripture itself says:

But set apart יהוה Elohim in your hearts, and always be ready to give
an answer to everyone asking you a reason concerning the expectation
that is in you, with meekness and fear, having a good conscience, so
that when they speak against you as doers of evil, those who falsely
accuse your good behavior in Messiah, shall be ashamed. For it is
better, if it is the desire of Elohim, to suffer for doing good than
for doing evil.

Well, we just quoted some of the teaching of Yahusha – delivered to us
by the emissary Kepha, but what you have said does not line up with
what he says. #1 – you’re not ready to give an answer, #2 – your
delivery is without meekness and fear. But I am ready to give an
answer for all that I believe and I’m not claiming all that I believe
to be absolute truth at this time. But see, you say “it is enough that
YHWH has shown us from his torah” – so that’s it – that’s enough,
right? You will entertain no refutes because you believe you are
absolutely 100% correct and everyone else is steeped in idolatry to
the point they can’t see – according to you. But you should probably
take the fear factor into it and remember where you once were. But to
get to the truth of the matter any truth-seeker is going to put your
understanding under the microscope and if you are unwilling to answer
the inconsistencies then how can we believe your message?

You said, “IT is everyone’s DUTY to search out the TRUTH for
themselves individually. Our studies are only there to point, guide
and direct those who truly desire to Feast upon the Bread of Life and
who Thirst for the Living Waters of the TORAH, and who TRULY want to
KNOW HIM & LOVE HIM, WHO IS “THE WAY, THE TRUTH & THE LIFE” YHWH
YAHWSHUA HA MASHIYACH.”

You say it’s everyone’s duty to search out the truth – so what is
wrong with questioning your study? You lay it all out as if it is
absolutely irrefutable truth BUT you are not willing to discuss your
inconsistencies. You seem to be saying “I have the truth, if you don’t
listen to me too bad for you”.

You said, “All Doctrine Must be Tested and Weighed thoroughly in the
Torah, just as we have sought to do. If you have questions or find us
in error on any point, it is your YHWH-given duty to show us from the
Torah where we do err. But, bring your two or three witnesses for the
TORAH! Not man’s sayings, and/or preconceived ideas & traditions.

Your comment here is inconsistent with what you said earlier. By using
by the word “argue” as if that is your way out. We are not arguing, we
are pointing out your inconsistencies through the Torah.

Now here out of all your words we can find something that actually has
something to do with the calendar that you keep, personally I’m not
interested in your take of what all these Scriptures represent. I am
only in wonderment about HOW you keep your calendar.

You said, “#1 - YHWH’s children of Light are to Number the Days of
Yisrael’s Year from the beginning of the First Day, of the First
Month, as Commanded in Exodus 12:2; see also Genesis 1:3-5, which
begins on the First Conjunction on or after the Spring Equinox. Once
the First Day of the Year is Established, you simply begin Numbering
your Days from Day One.”

Exo 12:2 “This month is the beginning of months for you, it is the
first month of the year for you.

Gen 1:3-5 And Elohim said, “Let light come to be,” and light came to
be.
4 And Elohim saw the light, that it was good. And Elohim separated the
light from the darkness.
5 And Elohim called the light ‘day’ and the darkness He called
‘night.’ And there came to be evening and there came to be morning,
the first day.

Ex. 12:2 – it says the beginning of months for you – it does not say
the beginning of the year for you. It says nothing about conjunction
or on or after the spring equinox. There is absolutely nothing
mentioned about numbering the days. It also says, “This is the first
month of the year for you” it did not say that is when the year
begins. The year begins as Enoch says, the day that the light portion
increases over the dark. Gen. 1:3-5 there is nothing mentioned here of
numbering the days – where does it say “number the days”? Where is
anything mentioned about conjunction? Equinox? Year? I would say you
are adding quite a bit to these Scriptures. You need more than this to
go on. How do you expect to teach something to someone that it does
not say? If you would notice in Gen. 1:5 – He did not say “and an
evening and a morning is what makes up a day”. If you would go look at
the actual Hebrew you would find that it does indeed say: and it came
to be evening and it came to be morning, the first day. Notice, and
there came to be evening and there came to be morning comes after the
light came to be. For all the first six days of Yahuah advancing on
His creation He did His work then came evening, then came morning –
the “x” day. If you have not noticed, when Yahuah rested the 7th day
He did not say, “then came evening and then came morning” or as you
want to cling to “an evening and a morning are day “x”. Why did not
Yahuah rest the 7th day and then explain and then an evening and a
morning is the 7th day? I can tell you what I believe but you’ve been
doing this for 20 years and you have all the truth. So you should
already know this.

You said, “#2 - The Day is measured by the Sun’s Light “And the
Evening and the Morning were the First Day” ... “At Even/Noon, from
Even/Noon unto Even/Noon” ... “At the going down of the sun” - Genesis
1:5, Exodus 12:6; Leviticus 23:32; Deuteronomy 16:6. The First Day
(Day One) of the First Month is also where you begin Numbering your 7
Day Week for the Year - Genesis 1:3-2:3.”

As discussed before you are in error according to the Scriptures. You
said even/noon. This is not in the Torah. There is a specific word for
‘evening’ and a specific word for ‘noon’. If Yahuah intended for the
day to begin at noon why didn’t He use the word tsohar? Again, you’re
understanding is flawed from the very beginning.

You said, “#3 - The Spring Equinox is the season/green ears (Exodus
13:4) of the Year when Planet Earth has completed it’s orbit of the
Sun.”

Exo 13:4 “Today you are going out, in the month Abib (24).

H24
אביב
'âbîyb
From an unused root (meaning to be tender); green, that is a young ear
of grain; hence the name of the month Abib or Nisan: - Abib, ear,
green ears of corn.

Here again, your understanding is flawed. This Scripture says nothing
about the spring equinox, it says nothing about “when the planet earth
has completed its orbit of the sun”. It’s the month of Abib, based on
the moon. The Scripture does use a word that could be possibly
construed as an equinox or a solstice.

Psa 19:6 Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit
(8622) to the other end; And naught is hidden from its heat.

H8622
תּקפה תּקוּפה
teqûphâh
From H5362; a revolution, that is, (of the sun) course, (of time)
lapse: - circuit, come about, end.

Exo 34:22 “And perform the Festival of Weeks for yourself, of the
first-fruits of wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the
turn of the year (8622).

Now it seems obvious that the tequphah represents a revolution of a
year or most probably the four seasons as the sun changes its course;
which is all explained in Enoch. So the point is, whether you believe
it’s the four seasons or the end of the year – we can see that this
word was not used in Exo. 13:4 – there is absolutely nothing mentioned
about a year. It is about the beginning of months that takes place
within the confines of the year. In other words, the first month
“abib” is the first month/new moon of the year. The year had already
started with the sun but the beginning of months is different from the
beginning of the year – they are two separate counts that work in
unison.

You said, “#4 - The “Conjunction” is when the Sun & the Moon are Face
to Face - as Yisrael, the Bride, is to be Face to Face, with her
Heavenly Husband the Sun of Righteousness, on the First Day of each
Month having a Qodesh Convocation - Leviticus 23:24; Numbers 10:10;
28:11; 29:1 –“

You really should quote your verses because there is no mention of the
first day of each month having a qodesh convocation. There is only one
– and that is the first day of the 7th month. All the rest of them do
have offerings and trumpet blowing, but you said “each month having a
qodesh convocation” can you please provide the Scripture that does say
this? Because you are extrapolating on what these text do not say. So
please provide the Scripture that does say “every “conjunction” we are
to have a qodesh miqra”. If you cannot provide a Scripture that says
that every conjunction we are to have a qodesh miqra then you have how
many witnesses? You said we need two or three witnesses and the
Scriptures you provided in no way state that the beginning of every
month is a qodesh miqra.

Continuing you said, “ which Months are Numbered from the First Day
(Day One) of the Year alternately 30 & 29 to the end of the year.
Numbering this way, the Days in the Months alternately 30 & 29 Days,
causes the Conjunction of the Sun & Moon to fall near the First Day of
each Month automatically. We have found nowhere in the Torah that the
First Day Of each Month must fall exactly on the Conjunction, which is
an impossibility seeing that the Moon’s cycles are not made up of a
perfect number of Days.”

Again, you said,

“….but where is the evidence and the 2 or 3 witnesses that are
required in the Torah for such doctrine?”

SO….where are your two or three witnesses required in Torah that says
we should “alternate 30 and 29 days to the end of the year”??? There
is NONE. WHERE do you get 30 or 29?? It SOUNDS as if you are taking
the average of the moon cycle. If you cannot provide a Scriptural
witness to the 30 or 29 days then where do you get this? Are you
adding to the Scriptures? To me it seems somewhat ridiculous that you
call us “lunar-ticks” and abominable doctrine or whatever when you
yourself speak of the first day of each month not falling exactly on
the conjunctions. So which is it? Are the months by the moon or by
your counting 30 or 29 days – to be close to the new moon/conjunction?
Can’t you see how ridiculous you sound? Do you actually think that
your counting CAUSES the conjunction of the sun and moon to fall near
the first day of each month automatically?? The truth is you have
admitted that your counting may not put you on the new moon
conjunction day, so is the conjunction caused by your counting? NO.
The conjunction/new moon happens because it happens because that’s
what Yahuah designed it to do. But you are not looking to the
luminaries as Gen. 1:14 indicates. You are not acknowledging the moon
having signs as the Scriptures say. They happen regardless of your
counting. It’s like you are doing your utmost to sever the moon from
what it was appointed to do, thinking that if you “allow” the moon to
do what it was appointed to do you are worshipping it; but you have
devised an unscriptural way of counting to get “close” to the new
moon. Why not allow the moon to do what it was intended to do?

Continuing you said, “It is as SIMPLE as that! Just Number your Days.
And what is really amazing, is that when you Number Yisrael’s Days
like this, the confusion concerning the Timing of the Events of the
Exodus and Mashiyach’s Passover come to Light and finally Harmonize in
& with the Old & New Testimony. See our “Exodus & The Sign Of Yonah”
Study.”

If that study is anything like your “calendar study” then no thanks.
But I will tell you this, if you believe the Messiah was in the grave
three days and three nights – you are wrong. This can be proven
Scripturally by the account of what took place after Messiah rose at
the beginning of the third day.

Greg & Dawn said: “But if you do as “if one” the whole beginning of
the year is based on the moon. I believe the year is based on the sun,
unless you consider it as the Scripture says: this is the beginning of
months for you, it is the first month/moon of the year. I did not hear
you anywhere explain how your understanding fits in with this.”

Answer: We do not base the the beginning of the year on just the Moon.
The beginning of the year is based on both the Sun and the Moon, for
that is a Conjunction - Exodus 12:2.

This is a false understanding according to Scripture. See above.

Exo 12:2 “This month is the beginning of months for you, it is the
first month of the year for you.

It almost sounds like you go along with the Roman Calendar
understanding of when a year begins and that is at the same time a
month begins…. And the Roman Calendar is irrespective of the moon as
you seem to be. So it seems you have a little bit in common with the
Roman Calendar.

First month of the year – meaning the year has a circuit which is
distinguished by the sun, the months have a circuit which is a
separate count from the sun. They are not the same thing.

Greg & Dawn said: If Genesis 1:3-5 is the first unit of measurement of
time then shouldn’t that be the starting point? I mean that’s the
first thing He did was establish the six days of work and day of rest.
So is there any way to tell if there is a mo’ed/appointed time that
represents “in the beginning”?

Answer: Yes, Genesis 1:3-5 is the “Starting Point” - It is the First
Day of The First Month of Planet Earth’s Very First New Year, a
Conjunction. And we see here that YHWH was Creating/Working on that
Day. Also we have the Testimony in Exodus 40:1,2 that YHWH Commanded
Yisrael to set up the Tabernacle of Congregation on the First Day of
the First Month. The First Day of every Month seems to be a Work Day,
contrary to the thinking of some; but, there is a difference in the
Work that YHWH requires that can be done on that Day; in other words,
who are you serving on the New Month Day, is it YHWH or man?

You said, “#4 - The “Conjunction” is when the Sun & the Moon are Face
to Face - as Yisrael, the Bride, is to be Face to Face, with her
Heavenly Husband the Sun of Righteousness, on the First Day of each
Month having a Qodesh Convocation - Leviticus 23:24; Numbers 10:10;
28:11; 29:1 –“

Seeing as you have made up a qodesh miqra for every “new moon/
conjunction” I suppose you can also make up what type of work is to be
done. So what is the command for the new moon/qodesh miqra (barring
the 7th) can you show us in Scripture whether it is a no-work day or a
no-servile-work day – please show us in Scripture. An example of what
is being done is not a command. A command consists of “on the
conjunction/new moon of every month you shall have a qodesh miqra no
servile work shall be done”.

Greg & Dawn said: I would suggest that “in the beginning” is
represented by the New Moon of the 7th month – a memorial of shouting.

Answer: We do not find that to be True. The Testimony in Exodus 12:2 &
13:4 makes it very clear that it was “Abib” Spring (green ears) that
is to be the Beginning of Yisrael’s New Year. We all can suppose and
surmise, but it is a “Thus says YHWH” that establishes a matter and we
have not found such testimony for the First Day of the 7th Month to be
the beginning of Yisrael’s Year.

That’s funny – “you say we all can suppose and surmise, but it is thus
sayeth YHWH that establishes a matter” …… this exactly what you have
been doing. Anyway, did I say that the new moon of the 7th month is
the beginning of the year? NO, I did not. There is nothing in
Scripture that says Yahuah began advancing on His creation on the
first day of the first month or the beginning of the year. This is not
in Scripture. You are supposing.

Continuing you said, “The First Day of the Seventh (Leviticus
23:24,25) Is a “Shabbathown” - #7677 (a Special Day of Blowing of
Trumpets), and is Not a 7th Day Shabbath Day - #7676. We believe Feast
Of Trumpets was to be the Memorial of Trumpets in Yoshua 6, where the
walls of Yericho, the City of the Moon Goddess Sin came tumbling down,
clear to the ground. Where else in Yisrael’s history do you find such
a Blowing of Trumpets & Shouting. More than likely, Yericho is where
the Abominable Lunar Sabbath was conceived.”

So you believe the Feast of Trumpets was a memorial of trumpets in
Yoshua 6? How can you have a memorial of something that had not
happened yet? They were given this command for the 1st day of the 7th
month way before (at least 40 years) they set foot in the promised
land. So your understanding here is flawed also. Besides that – if you
say something you might want to be able to back it up with at least
one witness – find us evidence that shows that the Yericho was the
“City of the Moon Goddess Sin”. Now, I’m not saying they didn’t
worship the moon, but I believe it was the Sumerians that had the moon
god named Sin. Here’s the witness that we found:

“Sin was the Sumerian Moon god. Sumerians were living more than three
thousand years ago in Mesopotamia. Mesopotamia is the ancient name of
the region that corresponds to the valleys of Tigris and Euphrates
rivers. Today Mesopotamia is located in the territories of the states
of Iraq and Kuwait.
Sin was worshipped in the city of Ur. The high priest of his temple,
chosen from the royal family, was viewed as Sin's spouse. Sin was the
descendant of the sky god An. His parents were the air god Enlil and
the grain goddess Ninlil. Sin was depicted as a "fierce young bull,
thick of horns, perfect of limbs, with a beautiful bird of blue". The
Moon god had several different names that referred to different phases
of the Moon. The name Sin indicated the crescent Moon, Nanna the full
Moon, and Asimbabbar the beginning of each lunar cycle. “

You said, “Oh, to what extent will haughty, erring, rebellious, stiff-
necked men, not go to, to justify their moon worship, their moon
goddess “Sin”! They pride themselves in being right when if fact, they
are all wrong”!”

So are we haughty, erring, rebellious, stiff-necked for testing your
understanding? For examining what you say and comparing it with
Scripture? You might call us moon worshippers – and we don’t receive
it – all I see is unfounded accusations and the truth is a lot of it
might apply to yourself. At least I’m willing to hear what you have to
say and if it does not line up with Scripture I’m going to reject it.
If it is truth, then the Torah will confirm it being truth. But so
far, from what I have seen your understanding is flawed.

Greg & Dawn said: So when you get to the first day of the 7th month
with your count does it line up? Do you have a new moon – six days of
work – and a day of rest? If you begin your count on the first day of
the first month where do you start your count? Is day one the new moon
day of the first month? Or is it day two of the month that begins your
six days work and one day rest? If I knew that then I could calculate
forward to see if your Sabbath falls on the 22nd day of the 2nd month
as in the Scriptures. If it does, you should be able to continue
through your count to the 15th day of the 7th month and there should
be a full moon on that day. Does this occur according to your count?

Answer: Yes, the moon will be full on the 15th Day of the 7th Month.
We have answered most of the other questions above. If you would like
to know if they all line up, just Number your Day and Test it for
yourself in the TORAH; that is the way we all learn to know if it is
Truth or Error. The Lunar Sabbath does not line up with the Torah
Testimony.

Example: the Lunar Sabbatarians say the 15th Day of every Month is
always a 7th Day Shabbath, but if that is True then according to
Numbers 33:3 the children of Israel took their “flight” and were
traveling on the Sabbath Day. “But Pray you that your Flight be not in
the winter, neither on the Shabbath Day.” Matthew 24:20. YHWH would
not have the children of Yisrael breaking His Shabbath Law.

Oh yeah – well then why did He say pray it would not be on the Sabbath
Day? Besides, He didn’t show them His Sabbath until they were in the
wilderness! They would not even have known that the day they left was
a Sabbath. They had been probably been breaking the Sabbath for 430
years. So you say the 14th was the Sabbath so when did they leave?
After noon – of course. But why would they have to eat with their
loins girded and their staff in their hand and eat in haste if they
did not leave in the morning? So when did they plunder the Mitsrites?
Before noon on the 14th? Oh, it must have been after noon right,
according to your understanding…. Which is very provable in Scripture
to be a false understanding. The day does not begin at high noon. But
of course you’re not going to hear it, you’re convinced in your own
understanding, but the Scriptures speak the truth. Beginning the day
at noon is not truth.

Greg & Dawn said: Revelation describes the woman standing on the moon
clothed with the sun – is she paying homage to the luminaries? Or is
she only heeding the instructions that are given in Genesis 1:14? The
luminaries were given for us to keep track of days, years, and
appointed times with signs.

Answer: Yes, she is paying homage to the luminaries, Ezekiel 8 makes
this very evident, and so does the Testimony below;

At the time of Mashiyach, Israel were Lost Sheep, they had forgotten
YHWH’s WAYS for the ways of Baalim - the Sun, Moon & Stars.

No, the Women of Revelation 12:1 standing on the Moon Goddess, Clothed
with the Sun-god and the 12 Star-gods on her head was not virtuous and
she is Apostate Israel. A virtuous Women would be standing on the Rock
or her Salvation, cleansed of all Sun, Moon & Star gods.”

Well, we’ll see about that.

You continue, “Most likely in the Beginning in Eden the luminaries did
all line up with perfect Days & Months in the Year, but since the
Great Deluge in Genesis 7 & 8, the result of man’s wickedness, that is
not True anymore. That is Why YHWH has given His Children of Light a
Better Way to Number their Earth Days.”

According to Enoch they were perfect but that didn’t mean they lined
up exactly. Enoch specifically speaks of the functions of the sun and
moon and their number of days and even then the moon did not have
perfect number of days to line up exactly with the sun. At least for
year after year; every so often there would be completeness in the sun
and moon, but it is not every year; because the moon has always fallen
behind the sun in the number of days.

Greg & Dawn said: That is a gross accusation to say if one uses them
to tell time that they are paying homage to them.

Answer: That might be a gross accusation, but nevertheless it is True.
Israel is gross & she is in gross darkness! She was and is in
apostasy, and she has lost All the WAYS of YHWH! And that is why YHWH
pleads for Yisrael to return unto Him so He can Teach her His Ways and
to Walk in His Paths once again as He taught the children of Yisrael
in the wilderness:

Did they have a sundial in the wilderness? Tell me, do you pay homage
to the sundial by looking at it? The sundial is an invention of man,
isn’t it? There is a way to tell time without a sundial. So, what
makes you any better for looking at man’s invention than looking at
the luminaries which Yahuah appointed to keep track of time? Have you
ever looked at a clock on the wall? Do you have to be at work at a
certain time? Are you paying homage to the clock-god? Do you have
clocks in your house corresponding to the time that man uses? If
somebody asks you what time it is do you tell them the Scriptural
time?

Gen 1:14 And Elohim said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the
heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs
and appointed times, and for days and years,

This is the command. It says “let them be for signs and appointed
times” which includes the moon. So you must consider Yahuah in gross
darkness because this is what He appointed the sun and moon to do. It
seems that you think that anything concerning the luminaries is false
worship – barring yourself – but this is what we read in the
Scriptures. These luminaries were appointed to be signs and for
appointed times, for days and years. If you number the days of the
year you start at one and end at 365, if you number the days of the
moon you start at 1 and end at 29 or 30; we have already proven
Scripturally that there is a sign in the moon for the feasts and when
it is full. So is Yahuah a moon-worshipper? Because He designed His
the moon to have a sign on the 15th day? Is Yahuah a moon-worshipper
because He required offerings on new moon days? Is Yahuah a moon-
worshipper because all of His appointed times are according to the
moon? First day of the month, 10th day of the month, 14th, 15th, these
are all days of the month – so you must consider Yahuah a moon-
worshipper – or is He the moon god that requires sacrifices on the new
moon days? It’s right there in the Torah. The problem is you think
that by using the moon to get to Yahuah’s appointed times it is sin.

Greg & Dawn said: If you consider a day to start when the sun comes up
are you paying homage to the “sun god”?

Answer: Yes! Because Planet Earth’s Day does not begin at sunrise.
“And the Evening & the Morning were the First Day” on Planet Earth -
Genesis 1:5.

Again, you err in your understanding. It does not say “and the evening
and the morning were the first day” – it says then came evening and
then came morning, the first day. Which means the end of the first day
ended as morning came. The truth is, when the day begins in the
morning the sun has not even risen above the horizon, it’s called the
break of day. Why is it the first hour of the day correlates with the
time the sun starts being seen? If the day begins at high noon how can
you have 12 hours to a day? You might say, “Well you have six hours
before the sunset and then you have six hours from morning until
noon.” Yes, that equals 12 hours, but that is not consistent with
Yahusha’s parable of the 11th hour worker. When did he start gathering
the workers? In the morning. The day ended at evening after 11 hours.
There is no indication that they worked from noon til dark and then
went back the next day –oh I’m sorry, I can’t use the next day, but
went back after morning and completed the six more hours. Or what you
are suggesting is that there are 12 hours from morning until noon.

Joh 11:9 יהושע answered, “[b]Are there not twelve hours in the [u]day[/
b][/u]? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he
sees the light of this world.

Mat 20:1 “For the reign of the heavens is like a man, a householder
who [b]went out early in the morning[/b] to hire workers for his
vineyard.
Mat 20:2 “And when he had [b]agreed with the workers for a silver
piece a [u]day[/b][/u], he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 “And he went out about the [b]third hour[/b] and saw others
standing idle in the market-place,
Mat 20:4 and said to them, ‘You too go into the vineyard, and whatever
is right I shall give you.’ And they went.
Mat 20:5 “Having gone out again about the [b]sixth and the ninth hour[/
b], he did likewise.
Mat 20:6 “And about [b]the eleventh hour[/b], having gone out, he
found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘[b]Why do you stand
here idle [u]all day[/b][/u]?’
Mat 20:7 “They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to
them, ‘You too go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you shall
receive.’
Mat 20:8 “[b]And when evening came[/b], the master of the vineyard
said to his manager, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages,
beginning with the last to the first.’

Here is more proof that your understanding is flawed. It is obvious
that Yahusha is talking about the 12 hours of the day that starts in
the morning and ends in the evening. You would have to say that the 12
hours are from morning until noon. Boy wouldn’t that be nice if we got
a day’s wages from working from morning until noon. Your understanding
is not sound Scriptural reasoning. I can see why you do not want to
“argue” or reason from the Scriptures; because your understanding is
unreasonable.

Psa 104:22 The sun arises – they (the lions) withdraw And lie down in
their dens.
Psa 104:23 Man goes out to his work, And to his labor, till evening.

So the lions only withdraw and lie down until noon? And man goes out
to work as the sun rises and he labors til noon? So your work day is
from sunrise until noon only? I doubt it.

Greg & Dawn said: If we start a month at the new moon are we paying
homage to the moon?

Answer: Yes! If you calculate your New Month by the sliver, you are
paying homage to the Moon, because there is NO Testimony in the TORAH
for such; that is a Babylonian Jewish tradition.

We do not begin the month by the sliver nor do we pay homage to the
moon because we understand what it was appointed to do and it seems
you are evading the question. So I will rephrase it:

If we start the month at the new moon/conjunction are we paying homage
to the moon?

In your treatise you said, “So (YHWH), teach us to number our days
that we may apply our hearts unto (Your) wisdom.” Psalms 90:12.

THAT WE BE NOT COUNTED AMONG THE MOON NOR THE SUN WORSHIPERS!”

You quote Psalms 90:12 but you fail to bring the context of what it is
speaking of and that is numbering the days of one’s life.

Psa 90:10 The days of our lives are seventy years; Or if due to
strength, eighty years, Yet the best of them is but toil and exertion;
For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
Psa 90:11 Who knows the power of Your displeasure? And your wrath,
according to the fear of You?
Psa 90:12 Teach us to number our days, And let us bring the heart to
wisdom.

So how about trying to quote something that is in context?

Even after all of that – we still don’t know if you keep a 7 day
continual cycle and reset it once at the beginning of your year or if
you keep 4 sabbaths in a month. So I guess I’ll put that in a question
form.

Do you keep a 7-day continual count and reset it at the beginning of
your year?
Do you keep the conjunction/new moon, and count to the 7th day for
Sabbath and reset it at the end of 30 or 29 days?*******

[i]***End of deleted post[/i]


Comment by Greg and dawn on November 8, 2009 at 3:47pm
Delete Comment Well Beverly,

As I don’t think you’re going to allow us to post here much longer, I
did want to tell you this. If there is any truth to the calendar that
you are keeping, you are destroying its credibility through your
actions. How do you expect one to hear you and the truth you claim to
be speaking when you delete posts that show your error? Like I said,
if there is any truth to it you yourself are destroying the venue in
which you claim to be messenger; because you the messenger are not
keeping your own words. You claim you want to know if you are in error
and when it is presented to you – you wad it up and throw it in the
trash. You didn’t even take the time to read the whole thing, did you?
You know the old saying, give somebody enough rope they’ll end up
hanging themselves. . . .

Greg and dawn

Comment by Dale Trottier on November 8, 2009 at 4:20pm
Ralph and Beverly,

The finger I am pointing is not at you, but to the Truth of this
matter found in Scripture as entrusted to me by Abba YHVH, thereby
leading all those who have been called by Him to this Truth, ACCORDING
TO HIS TIMETABLE APPOINTED FOR EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY. Those who are
not called, having not eyes to see nor ears to hear according to their
heart's desire, will rebel against it, as they have been doing for the
past 6,000+ years and even before time itself.

All things are permitted a man, but yet not all things will profit
him, as each man does what is right in his own eyes. In other words
Ralph and Beverly, once one has been presented with the Truth, it is
up to this one to decide to follow or not follow, or if unclear as to
what he has received and from whom, to keep seeking and searching
until such time as he knows that he knows that he knows, and then
follow from there. Abba YHVH will not stand in the way of no man's
heart yet gives to each according to what he finds there. In this we
can begin to understand the depths of His Love.

Many have condemned themselves with their own words yet know it not,
and it is to these that YHVH Yahoshua will say, "I knew you not".

There are two different voices speaking two different things here, one
the Truth and the other the lie. It is up to each man to search his
heart to see whose voice he will hear and follow. Just as no amount of
beating one down with the lie will get them to turn from the only
Voice they will hear and follow, so too will no amount of pleading and
discussion change a mind reprobate. But, after all, our walk through
this furnace of affliction is not about "changing hearts" as some
would suggest, but about revealing to each that which is in their
heart, their desire to follow their Creator on into the Eighth Day or
to find the separation from Him that so many have sought, even since
before Creation.

Dale

Comment by Beverly Wheeler on November 8, 2009 at 5:25pm
Shalom Greg & Dawn I have not deleted your posts or any one elses
posts.

I have just been preparing one for you and am ready to send it when I
see these other ones from you. I do not know what happened to them!
But I did not delete them!

I am sorry I am not so young any more and doing computer is hard for
me, my fingers are not as fast as yous, You could at leat give me time
to respond before you jump all over me!

Shalom Greg & Dawn,

YHWH bless you abundantly!

We thank you for your words of wisdom in your post to Rob; at least we
know now that you are a sincere, honest in heart Truth seeker and doer
of YHWH’s WORD, and that you are sincerer, in at least investigating
this matter.

Many want to condemn before they hear the whole conclusion of the
matter. I know that I am not perfect in my speech, and my wording
leaves much to be desired, but my intention is to present the Truth as
YHWH has give it us.

But, to twist one’s words, and then accuse and insinuate we are
calling our Creator YHWH a pagan??? When we said no such thing! we
question that and so does YHWH.

YES! CONNIE CAREFUL OF YOUR WORDS !!!!! YHWH IS LISTENING ALSO!

We are not the one who condemns the spurious sabbaths; and neither
does YHWH condemn those who are unknowingly now keeping them; Not
UNTIL they have had the Light on His TRUE Shabbath and have rejected
IT, then comes condemnation. The enemy is seeking to keep this Truth
form YHWH’s people, because it is the Shabbath Truth that will UNITE
them all in YHWH.

YHWH is the One that says “Learn not the ways of the heathen”! And I
for one do not want to Offend Him and neither will His True Israel-
Lights want to offend Him. I want to be found WALKING in All of HIS
WAYS! Because It is the SIGN between Him and His people forever!

We understand fully that not everyone is yet on the same page. We have
not condemned any of them, but maybe YHWH’s WORD/SWORD has. But,
before YAHWSHUA comes to deliver His people, His True Yisrael-Lights
will be on the same page, they will be ONE in YHWH and His Doctrine -
Revelation 14:4,5. It took us many years of digging out YHWH’s True
Appointed Times & Shabbath, and we do not expect anyone to learn it
over night either. I guess it is easier to attack the messenger than
look to see if there is any Truth in the message.

We are pleased to answer Greg & Dawn’s Questions:

Greg said: Do you keep a 7-day continual count and reset it at the
beginning of your year?
Do you keep the conjunction/new moon, and count to the 7th day for
Sabbath and reset it at the end of 30 or 29 days?

Please explain how you keep your count to Sabbath.

Answer: Yes, We are to Keep a continual 7 Day Count from the Beginning
of the Firs Day of The First Month of the Year - Exodus 12:2, until
the beginning of the next New Year.

We Begin the New Year Exodus 12:2 With the First Conjunction of the
greater light & the lesser light on or after the Spring Equinox. This
is where we begin numbering our days for the Year, our Shabbath Days
and our Feast Days as Exodus 12:2 Commands.

We do not go by the Conjunction after the First Day of the New Year
has been established, there is no need to when you can just count/
number 30 & 29 Days alternately until the next Year.

I am sorry, greg, I did misunderstand some of your questions, but I
did provide Torah witnesses.

Greg said: If you had noticed she has required everyone to have two or
three witnesses (according to Torah) but she herself provides no
witness in Torah or otherwise. The witness that she does provide is
obviously transformed to her belief and a perfect example of this is
when the day begins. I’m not saying she speaks absolutely no truth at
all or that she doesn’t desire the truth but when you refute with
Scripture the error becomes obvious to all.

True! Error does become obvious to all. But I did provided witnesses
From the TORAH for starting Planet Earth’s Day at “Even/Noon” you need
to look again.

“#2 - The Day is measured by the Sun’s Light “And the Evening and the
Morning were the First Day” ... “At Even/Noon, from Even/Noon unto
Even/Noon” ... “At the going down of the sun” - Genesis 1:5, Exodus
12:6; Leviticus 23:32; Deuteronomy 16:6. The First Day (Day One) of
the First Month is also where you begin Numbering your 7 Day Week for
the Year - Genesis 1:3-2:3.”

That is 4 Witnesses:

Genesis 1:5 - “And YHWH called the Light Day, and the Darkness he
called Night. And the Evening and the Morning were the First Day.”

We see from Genesis 1:5 that “Evening” Doses Not mean “darkness/
night.” So when is “Evening”?

Exodus 12:6 tells us that the Passover lamb was Killed “IN the
Evening” - “And you shall keep it up until the Fourteenth Day of the
same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Yisrael
shall kill it in the Evening.” See also Matthew 27:45; Mark 14:24;
Luke 33:24.

Note: So when is “Evening”? Answer: “In the Evening” is the time of
the “Evening” sacrifice which always took place around 3:00pm “In the
Evening.” That makes “Evening” form Noon/Even to Sunset, “At the going
down of the sun” as testified in Deuteronomy 16:6.

If you do a word study on the word “Evening” used here in Exodus 12:6
it is not the word “ereb” as Strong’s Con. has it, it is the word “Ben
Ha Arbayin” meaning “IN” or “Between” the “Evening.” Strong’s Con.
also say “Evening” means Darkness which contradicts the Testimony in
Genesis 1:5. The “Evening” is “Light” and “Light” = “Day”!

And Leviticus 23:32 tells us, “... at Even/Noon, from Even/Noon unto
Even/Noon, shall you Yisrael celebrate your Shabbath” Day.

May YHWH bless all of you Truth seekers.
Beverly


Comment by Eriq Benel on November 8, 2009 at 5:25pm
I avoided getting involved in this discussion because sometimes I get
weary of this debate. The Shabbat has been a subject of controversy
and ridicule for the people of YHVH since the time Yisrael was first
sent into captivity for disobedience in the Book of Judges. It is
frustrating and a little sad how this debate rages on when the answer
is so simple. The truth is always hidden in simplicity.

One of the most egregious things a person can do with doctrine is to
claim that YHVH taught them something when He did not. YHVH will not
teach anything that is contrary to Scripture, history or scientific
fact. And even if He is teaching in "stepping stones", each stone will
be a stone of "truth". He will not teach a lie or an error to lead us
to truth.

The error of doctrine regarding the calendar (or any doctrine or that
matter) comes into play for several reasons, the chief of which is
taking Scripture out of context and applying ones own, private,
"spiritual" interpretation. As a case in point, I would ask for
everyone to consider this example…

I am going to "re-post" Beverly's original post except I am going to
replace the references to the Sabbath that Beverly believes with the
lunar Sabbath and vice-versa (bold). I am also going to replace those
references using almost ALL of her words EXACTLY. Read carefully and
watch what happens…
-------------------------

Or is it the NOON to NOON Sabbath, the satanic Sabbath of the
humanistic, carnal count. The Cunningly Devised REVISION of Sun
Worship/Appointed Times.

Or is it NONE of the Above?

“If I have regarded the Sun in its radiance or
the Moon moving in splendor (through it’s phases),

So that my heart was secretly enticed
and my hand offered them a kiss of homage/honor

(giving the SUN authority to rule YHWH’s Shabbath),

Then these also would be Sins/Strange Fire to be Judged,
for I would have been UNFAITHFUL to YHWH Elohiym on high.
Job 31:26-28; See Also Yeremiah 8:1,2; Leviticus 10:1-7.

YHWH's True 7th Day Shabbath Day cannot be any of the Above, because
they are All Pagan, and YHWH Commands His people to “Learn NOT the way
of the heathen”! Yeremiyah 10:2.

We have discovered that YHWH, our Purifier, Does Not Mix the
Abominable with the Pure, nor does He Put “Darkness for Light” or
“Light for Darkness”; that is entirely rebellious man’s evil doing and
“WOE” is them! See Isayah 5:20; 24:5; Yeremiyah 10:2; Ezekiel 22:26.

YHWH! Did Not Appoint The Sun for appointments!
The SUN Does Not Rule Appointments!
And, YHWH’s Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath, Is An Appointment! - Genesis
1:5; 2:2,3. Leviticus 23:2

So, When is YHWH’s True, Sanctified 7th Day Shabbath Day?

ANSWER:
“But The Seventh Day Is The Shabbath Of YHWH Your Mighty One”!
Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; See Psalms 90:12.

HalleluYah!!!!!!!

It Is The 7th Day Shabbath Of YHWH’s Appointed Times/Calendar!
Genesis 2:2,3; Exodus 12:2,14; 16:4,23,29; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; 16:6.

Psalm 104:19. Leviticus 23:2

YHWH first made know to us about X years ago, that Saturday on that

Abominable, Pagan, Greek, Roman, Christian, Sun Calendar WAS NOT
YHWH’s TRUE 7th DAY SHABBATH DAY!

We Asked: “So YHWH, when is Your TRUE Seventh (7th) Day SHABBATH Day”?

We Knew that YHWH would not give His people a Command that their
Eternal Life Depended upon and then Not make it PLAIN when it was; we
knew it had to be REVEALED in HIS TORAH.

AND IT IS!

The biggest obstacle to overcome in discovering YHWH’s True Shabbath
is in removing all the cunningly devised Jewish Fables, Traditions,
Lying Wonders & Strange Fire, under which, Rebellious, Apostate Israel
has very, very cunningly buried YHWH’s ETERNAL GEMS OF TRUTHS.

It was the Jews after the fall of the temple in 70 CE that brought our

Creator YHWH's One & Only Sanctified Name Most Wonderful to Naught!
And, they are the transgressors that also brought YHWH's Sanctified
7th Day Shabath to Naught!

WE NOW HAVE 20 YEARS OF STUDIES ON “THE LUNAR SABBATH OF YISRAEL" IF

ANY ARE TRULY INTERESTED IN KNOWING & WALKING IN ALL OF OUR CREATOR/

SAVIOR’S TRUE WAYS & APPOINTED TIMES:

We Invite You All To Investigate & Weigh The Evidence In The TORAH:

COME! Search & See If These Things Are Truly So!

www.lunarsabbath.com

eriq benel

www.lunarsabbath.com

Matthew 10:34; Hebrews 4:12,13; Revelation 1:16; 19:15.

-----------------------------

Although I believe the lunar sabbath is true, my purpose for doing
that was to prove a point... I could use ALL of the EXACT SAME
RHETORIC and the EXACT SAME SCRIPTURES to make a grand speech about
the Sabbath I keep, and at the end I haven't proven ANYTHING.

Any of you, no matter what Sabbath you currently keep could do the
SAME THING with Beverly's post I just did. Use HER SAME SPEECH and
"plug in" whatever Sabbath you like, where you like. And at the end,
you have given a grand theological SPEECH, but haven't proven
anything.

That's because "proof" is not in "theological rhetoric" and "spiritual
interpretations". That can be done with ANY doctrine using the exact
same language. Truth is a combination of SCRIPTURE, HISTORY and
SCIENTIFIC FACT. When you look at Beverly's speech and the website she
presented, neither one of them meet that criteria.

Maybe there is more than one way a Scripture can be interpreted, but
you can't re-write History and you can't override the Scientific
Facts. SO, if your Scripture interpretation conflicts with the other
two, you need to re-evaluate how you interpret Scripture.

Investigating History and Science is HARD and time consuming and
sometimes confusing. BUT, it is fun and exciting to believe that you
are getting a "revelation" from above.

21 years of study, if it is not the correct kind of study, is
meaningless. My uncle was a drunk for 30 years! That don't make it
right!. Yisrael was in error for over 400 years until Messiah came and
Judaism has been in error for almost 2000 years since the fall of the
temple in 70 CE.

If you study properly, the truth is the truth, whether you have
studied for 20 minutes or 20 years.


Comment by Connie on November 8, 2009 at 6:14pm
Beverly,
Reread my post again. No one is twisting your words. The readers of
this discussion that has contacted me privately feels you are saying
this. They aren't going to write because they won't strive with you,
but they are writing me giving their thoughts about what you are
writing.
If you come off blasting a person, no one is going to pay attention to
you but label you.
You told Dale about pointing fingers, and yet at the same time many
are saying the same thing about your writings.
Kindness and gentleness which is showing the fruit of the Ruach will
get you more further then coming off to everyone as a know it all,
when the fact is, we'll never know everything. Its a daily process.
One step at a time.

If you look at Eriq's writings, you can see gentleness in his
writings. Not condemning people.

There are quite a few new believers in the Ha Moshiach on this site
and I don't want to see them confused. They only know what they know.
There is better ways to teach a person then talking about some sword
coming after them .

Eriq brought out some very good points in his writing and was written
using much wisdom.


Comment by Dale Trottier on November 8, 2009 at 7:19pm
Shalom All,

An interesting presentation indeed Eriq.

I agree that there is more than one way to interpret Scripture, and
less than three ways. Interpretation from the Author of Scripture
Himself, Abba YHVH, or apart from him.

Interpretation that comes from Ruach HaKodesh requires at least two
witnesses and must fit within Scripture in its entirety. At least one
of these witnesses must always come from Scripture itself, with the
more witnesses from Scripture the better, while additional witnesses
can be found in both history and science, as Eriq has noted. Yet the
witnesses that are found outside of Scripture serve only to confirm
the Word, not establish the Word, for the Word was established the
moment it was spoken by YHVH.

Just as the false pens of the scribes have perverted the Word in an
attempt to make Abba a liar, so too has history and science been
perverted in this same manner. Look at the "history" of the
"Palestinians" and the "science" of "Global Warming", just two of
many, many witnesses to this fact.

Hence the need for Ruach HaKodesh, without Whom one is left wondering
aimlessly and at the whims of men and their words.

As I see it, there are two opposing agendas in this discussion. There
are those who have viewed and commented on this discussion whose heart
is seeking Truth from whatever point they now stand. I also suspect
that there are those who have not commented on this post that seek the
same. Then there are those who seek something other than Truth.

Let this not be misunderstood as an accusation, for each man's words
who have spoken here have placed him on one of the two sides of the
line that was drawn in Beresheet 1:4. Lest any be confused, to
straddle this line, to sit on the fence so to speak, is to place
oneself on the side of darkness.

Perhaps clouded for some in all the words that have been bantered
about throughout this conversation is that there is only ONE way to
observe YHVH's Shabbat. He will reveal this to His children on an
individual basis when He knows the time is right for them. Let me
offer the following as an example.

Let us assume there is a man who currently has a family to support and
who is also seeking YHVH with his whole heart, desiring to be found
pleasing in His Daddy's eyes. Now this man has yet to come into the
understanding of the proper way to observe YHVH's Shabbat, although he
believes he does have this understanding, so he does the best he can
from where he currently stands in his walk with his Creator, yet the
desire in his heart continues to be to please his Daddy. At his
current job, he has a very rigid schedule that requires him to work
Monday - Friday, and perhaps even an occasional Saturday. To request
any type of deviance from this schedule would risk him losing his job
that is required to support himself and his family.

The question becomes, is this man sinning by keeping the Shabbat the
best way he knows how, while continuing to keep his heart set on
pleasing Abba and continuing to test his current understanding of this
matter in Scripture?

Some would suggest yes he is sinning, for he is not keeping the
"proper" Shabbat. Yet Scripture says otherwise - "To him who knows it
is sin, to him who does not know it is not reckoned to him as sin."

Might it be possible that although this man is searching with all of
his heart to be found pleasing in Abba's eyes, including desiring to
know how YHVH desires him to observe His Shabbat, that Abba knows that
to bring this understanding to him at this time will place him in a
position to fail, by having to choose between his job that Abba very
well might have provided as a means of taking care of himself and his
family, and perhaps other reasons known only to Abba, and keeping
YHVH's Shabbat as He has shown it to him? Perhaps this is where this
man is supposed to be at this time according to YHVH's plans for him.

Now there are perhaps those among us who will point to a particular
verse or verses in Scripture in an attempt to refute that which is
spoken above, claiming that this man would be placing the matters of
this world over the matters of YHVH. Yet who among us can speak to the
plans that Abba has for another man? Very few, and then only to the
degree that those plans overlap that which he has appointed for
ourselves, and then only on a need to know basis.

My point being that Truth is brought to each of us according to our
Loving Daddy's timing and only then when He knows that it will be
beneficial for us. Abba will NEVER place us in a position to fail. Any
failure that comes forth is man's doing, not Abba's.

B'Shem YHVH,
Dale

Comment by Connie on November 8, 2009 at 7:52pm
I agree with you 100 % Dale. Very good thoughts !

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 9, 2009 at 5:53am
Delete Comment Shalom Rob,

You said, “Correct you are that the truth has to be desired.”

And if you have asked Abba for the truth you will get what you asked
for. Sometimes the truth is kind of hard to swallow. Yahuah is not
limited on how He shows us truth. You might be reading the Word and
the Set-Apart Spirit floods in on you and starts reminding you of all
these other Scriptures that fit in with what you are reading and you
realize there is something more to this and from there you follow the
lead of the Set-Apart Spirit. I have believed in Messiah since I was a
child; but, it wasn’t until I was in my 20’s that Yahuah shook me up.
So I became a little more serious about reading the Word and when I
read about the Feasts all I knew at that time was, “there is something
about these Feasts” but it wasn’t until years later when I started
fellowshipping with people that kept the Feasts. I spent a few years
going from assembly to assembly of different denomination types, kind
of like stepping stones. There are also other ways that Yahuah
presents truth to people, such as looking at His creation. He can show
us many things by what He has made. He also uses individuals to plant
seeds of truth. So I guess the point is, there are many ways that
Yahuah can get us to hear the truth, but the seed needs to be planted
and the plant needs to grow and as the plant grows it becomes more
mature and stronger.

Continuing, “ But when a person starts elevating themselves to tell
someone else that they are wrong in what they have first learned, how
does this person know this is just a stepping stone for further
advancing towards the truth ?”

I hope you can recognize the difference between someone elevating
themselves and someone who is speaking the truth. What I mean by that
is sometimes it’s hard to hear the truth and some people need to hear
it a different way than others, only the Ruach can give us this
understanding on how to deal with a person individually. As we learn
from Messiah, He dealt with some people different than others. The
ones that were humble and ready to learn He dealt with them gently –
the haughty and arrogant He dealt with them strongly. In a situation
like we’re in here, everyone reads and like has been mentioned before;
we’re all a bit different on how we receive things.

So how do you know that they are stepping stones? From my perspective,
I didn’t know they were stepping stones until I moved onto the next
stone – or the next assembly; in which I learned a little bit in each
one. So Yahuah did use these different assemblies – right or wrong –
to teach me along the way. Although different individuals may have
planted seeds of truth it is Yahuah Who gives the increase. When a
seed is planted and it starts to grow it needs water and the water
comes from maybe some other individual who is speaking the same truth
and you might say, “Wow, this guy is talking about the same thing I
heard a long time ago”, so what happens is – you are prompted to study
it out for yourself, until the understanding “the plant” becomes
mature. But sometimes the enemy comes in and sows the darnel and
that’s when we think we believe something to be truth only to find out
later that what we thought was truth is not. We can actually learn
from the darnel that was planted, but the darnel needs to be uprooted
and cast out.

Continuing, “ Its like some bully comes along and shoves you off the
stepping stone you are on pushing you back into the water of worldly
life.”

And that is how the enemy works. If you are indeed a called out one
Yahuah will give you the strength to not fall back in the water of
worldly life or even if you do, He has a way of pulling you back out
again. I think a lot of us have been there. The enemy will come up
with all kinds of excuses not to continue on in the battle and that is
exactly what it is – it is a battle. That’s why we are required to put
on the full armor. I know exactly what you mean here because as I was
reading Beverly’s posts she said, “that Abominable Roman Babylonian
(Christian & Jewish) Calendar” oddly enough when I read that I had
this feeling of defending the Roman calendar! That is NOT me. I don’t
agree with the Roman calendar at all, but it was the way it was all
presented and possibly something behind that. Whether Beverly knows it
or not, the way she put together her treatise does exactly what you
are speaking of here. I’m sure it wasn’t designed intentionally by her
that way and like I told her, if there is truth involved, the way it
is presented will shut people down. So I hope you can see the
difference between brow-beating and reasoning from the Scriptures.
Even reasoning from the Scriptures can cause the ‘old man’ to become
irritated, especially when we’ve been grounded in something we believe
is the truth. Yahuah desires that we have humility and part of that
humility is understanding when we are wrong and admitting it and
asking Abba to forgive us.

Continuing, “Don't you think its better to aproach a person in love
and kindness as Yahshua did ? Instead of stabbing a person with that
sword that Beverly said YHWH has came to do.”

Yahusha always dealt with people in love, but as mentioned before some
people He dealt with a little differently, like the Pharisees and out
of all the Pharisees it seems like there was only one that could get
passed the rebuke, being Nicodemus. I’m sure there were probably
others, but we can see even Nicodemus was not open about his belief.
So I believe it is very important that the Ruach guides us on how to
deal with people. Personally I try to use the least adjectives
possible as I had indicated to Beverly, I was not interested in her
speaking of Yahuah’s destruction – which by the way is imminent His
Word does not return to Him void - anyway, I’m more interested in
understanding how she keeps her calendar. But as most of us can notice
that her understanding of the calendar gets lost in her sword of
rebuke. Of course, what happens is the sword of rebuke affects us
personally which is something we need to overcome. If they spoke all
manner of evil of Yahusha then they will speak all manner of evil of
you also. So Brother, I would suggest you ask Yahuah to give you
patience that even when people come at you with this type of delivery
that you might be able to see it for what it is, remembering also that
just because they are in the attack-mode doesn’t mean that something
they have learned is not truth. Test the doctrine – not the attitude.
Because I’m sure we could all admit that there are some rough edges
that we ourselves need smoothed off.

Continuing, “I am always willing to reason with a person, but I'm not
going to sit quietly and allow someone to call my Heavenly Father
pagan. I know what I know because of HIM. This is what HE taught me.”

I hope you don’t feel that I have in any way mean that Abba is pagan
because I mentioned the slaughter offerings that He requires on new
moon days. I was merely pointing out to her that it is Yahuah’s desire
to have these slaughter offerings on new moon days. One thing that a
lot of us learn is a lot of things that we believe that He has taught
us in the past was not actually Him -or- we misappropriated or
misunderstood what He was trying to teach us. Praise be to Yahuah for
His compassion and long-suffering for us and I’m sure His long-
suffering reaches from one end of heaven to the other.

Continuing, “And until I discover more truth this is all I have to go
on.”

Keep digging; there are many pearls to be uncovered.

Continuing, “Dale is right in his writings that Abba is the perfect
gentleman. And He isn't going to stab anyone with a sword but the
WICKED !”

And without Messiah we are all wicked. Yahusha said, “No one is good
except One – Elohim. But if you desire to enter into life, guard the
commands.” So, really we are all deserving of that sword – praise be
to Yahuah that He has given us a way of escape through His Son. We do
read in Scripture that even some that have broken the commands and
have taught others to do so may also enter into the Reign of Yahuah
because of His Son, Yahusha.

Mat 5:19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands,
and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens;
but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the
reign of the heavens.

Luk 12:47 “And that servant who knew his master’s desire, and did not
prepare, nor did according to his desire, shall be beaten with many
stripes.
Luk 12:48 “But he who did not know, yet did what deserved flogging,
shall be beaten with few. And everyone to whom much is given, from him
much shall be demanded. And to whom much has been entrusted, from him
much more shall be asked.

So continue to strive that you might hear those words, “Well done,
good and trustworthy servant. You were trustworthy over a little, I
shall set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.”

Continuing, “If this is what YHWH wants me to learn, then He's going
to show me, and I know its going to be with gentleness and kindness,
not with a sword.”

Just remember that Yahuah refines with fire.

May Yahuah bless you in your search for truth, may He guide you
continually and teach you His ways.

Greg and dawn

Comment by Rob Meyers on November 9, 2009 at 9:24am
Shalom Greg and Dawn,
I appreciate you writing me and giving me some really good information
to go on.
I really wasn't talking about you in my reply but you gave some good
answers.
I admit I have alot to learn, and really I find this discussion
actually helping me understand how much I don't know.
Eriq's article really turned the light bulb on and I sat up half the
night looking, and searching for answers, and Him and Dale was right
about matching up with history facts.
I thought wow do I have alot to learn.
I am sorry if I made you think I was coming off as a know it all, when
in truth I know nothing except that my sins have been taken away, and
I now proclaim the name of YHWH.

Comment by Dale Trottier on November 9, 2009 at 9:43am
Shalom All,

We can be encouraged by the understanding that all matters work for
good to those who love YHVH and are called according to His purpose.

Dale

Comment by j.e. on November 10, 2009 at 7:01am
beverly,

will you show me in the Torah where it says to alternate the days of a
period/month? will you show me where it says to count to 30 or 29 days
for a period/month? can you do this without adding your words to the
Scriptures that aren't there?

shalom,

j.e.

Comment by Greg and dawn on November 10, 2009 at 7:51pm
Delete Comment Shalom Beverly and All~

I’m sorry to see that you did not respond to my whole post. There were
many many questions in there that you did not address. But I think we
can put this understanding to rest once and for all; unless you can
explain this anomaly in your understanding… I thank you for divulging
the information of your resetting the 7-day continual count at the
first day of the first month and that your first month has 30 days. So
let’s see if this count lines up with Scripture. The Scriptures below
show an irrefutable conclusively established 7th-day Sabbath.


Exo 16:1 And they set out from Ělim, and all the congregation of the
children of Yisra’ĕl came to the Wilderness of Sin, which is between
Ělim and Sinai, [b]on the fifteenth day of the second month[/b] after
their going out of the land of Mitsrayim.

Exo 16:4 And יהוה said to Mosheh, “See, I am raining bread from the
heavens for you. And the people shall go out and gather a day’s
portion every day, in order to try them, whether they walk in My Torah
or not.
Exo 16:5 “And it shall be on the sixth day that they shall prepare
what they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather
daily.”
Exo 16:6 And Mosheh and Aharon said to all the children of Yisra’ĕl,
“At evening you shall know that יהוה has brought you out of the land
of Mitsrayim.
Exo 16:12 “I have heard the grumblings of the children of Yisra’ĕl.
Speak to them, saying, ‘Between the evenings you are to eat meat, and
in the morning you are to be satisfied with bread. And you shall know
that I am יהוה your Elohim.’ ”
Exo 16:13 And it came to be that quails came up at evening and covered
the camp, and in the morning the dew lay all around the camp.

Exo 16:21 And they gathered it every morning, each one according to
his need. And when the sun became hot, it melted.
Exo 16:22 And it came to be, on the sixth day, that they gathered
twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the
congregation came and told Mosheh.
Exo 16:23 And he said to them, “This is what יהוה has said, ‘Tomorrow
is a rest, a Sabbath set-apart to יהוה. That which you bake, bake; and
that which you cook, cook. And lay up for yourselves all that is left
over, to keep it until morning.’ ”
Exo 16:24 And they laid it up till morning, as Mosheh commanded. And
it did not stink, and no worm was in it.
Exo 16:25 And Mosheh said, “Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to
יהוה, today you do not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 “Gather it six days, but on the seventh day, which is the
Sabbath, there is none.”
Exo 16:27 And it came to be that some of the people went out on the
seventh day to gather, but they found none.

Most people would agree that the date of the first commanded Sabbath
after the first six days of gathering the manna would have been the
22nd day of the 2nd month. As we know, Beverly’s first month is 30
days long. We know that the pin-pointed Sabbath is on the 22nd day of
the 2nd month. 30 days for the first month plus 22 days of the second
month to bring us to the pin-pointed Sabbath. 30 + 22 = 52 days. 52
divided by 7 = 7.428571428571429. Ooops! That’s close, but not close
enough! 52 days is not equally divisible by 7. So if we count it out
it would take 7 sabbaths to get to the 49th day; which is short of 52
by three days.

So according to Beverly’s calendar the 22nd day of the second month is
a third day not a Shabbat.

This understanding is more and more beginning to look like Swiss
cheese.

Greg and dawn


Comment by Greg and dawn on November 12, 2009 at 6:40pm
Delete Comment Shalom Beverly and All~

It’s been kind of quiet in here.

Click here :)



You said, “Note: So when is “Evening”? Answer: “In the Evening” is the
time of the “Evening” sacrifice which always took place around 3:00pm
“In the Evening.” That makes “Evening” form Noon/Even to Sunset, “At
the going down of the sun” as testified in Deuteronomy 16:6.”

How do you know the evening sacrifice always took place around 3:00
p.m.? 3:00 p.m. would be ‘day’ – not evening.

Continuing, “If you do a word study on the word “Evening” used here in
Exodus 12:6 it is not the word “ereb” as Strong’s Con. has it, it is
the word “Ben Ha Arbayin” meaning “IN” or “Between” the “Evening.” “

Yes, ben ha erebim means in the midst of the evening. So your evening
must last from noon until sunset?? You are assuming that the going
down of the sun means from noon forward. You are basing this on what
Scripture? Below we will provide more Scriptural evidence that the
going down of the sun is [b]not[/b] from noon on.

Continuing, “Strong’s Con. also say “Evening” means Darkness which
contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5. The “Evening” is “Light” and
“Light” = “Day”!”

He called the LIGHT day and the darkness He called NIGHT. He did not
call the evening day. The evening is the mixing period that comes
after sunset. Morning is the mixing period before sunrise. Very
simple.

Continuing, “And Leviticus 23:32 tells us, “... at Even/Noon, from
Even/Noon unto Even/Noon, shall you Yisrael celebrate your Shabbath”
Day.””

Again, evening and noon are two different times of the day defined in
Scripture.

Psa 55:17 Evening and morning and at noon I complain and moan, And He
hears my voice.

Now let’s take a look at a few verses and break out the Strong’s…

Deu 16:6 but at the place where יהוה your Elohim chooses to make His
Name dwell, there you slaughter the Passover in the evening, at the
going down (935) of the sun, at the appointed time you came out of
Mitsrayim.

Gen 7:9 two by two they went into (935) the ark to Noah, male and
female, as Elohim had commanded Noah.

Gen 15:17 And it came to be, when the sun went down (935) and it was
dark, that see, a smoking oven and a burning torch passing between
those pieces.

Gen 19:1 And the two messengers came (935) to Sedom in the evening,
and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sedom. And when Lot saw them, he
rose up to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the
ground,
Gen 19:2 and he said, “Look, please my masters, please turn in to your
servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet, and rise
early and go your way.” And they said, “No, but let us spend the night
in the open square.”

(from blueletterbible.org)
Strong's H935 - bow'
1) to go in, enter, come, go, come in
a) (Qal)
1) to enter, come in
2) to come
a) to come with
b) to come upon, fall or light upon, attack (enemy)
c) to come to pass
3) to attain to
4) to be enumerated
5) to go
b) (Hiphil)
1) to lead in
2) to carry in
3) to bring in, cause to come in, gather, cause to come, bring near,
bring against, bring upon
4) to bring to pass
c) (Hophal)
1) to be brought, brought in
2) to be introduced, be put


We can see the various usages of this word in other texts and I don’t
believe any of them give the impression of descending; going down. Now
the translation gives the impression of the sun descending; however,
if we look at these definitions there are none that say “the going
down” or “descending”.

Now there is a Hebrew word that means exactly this. So let’s take a
few verses and look at the context to see if the “going down” is the
best application….

Isa 38:8 “See, I am bringing the shadow on the sundial, which has gone
down (3381) with the sun on the sundial of Ahaz, ten degrees
backward.” And the sun returned ten degrees on the dial by which it
had gone down (3381).

Gen 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him,
but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “Now let me go down
(3381) into the grave to my son in mourning.” So his father wept for
him.


H3381
ירד
yârad
yaw-rad'
A primitive root; to descend (literally to go downwards; or
conventionally to a lower region, as the shore, a boundary, the enemy,
etc.; or figuratively to fall); causatively to bring down (in all the
above applications): - X abundantly, bring down, carry down, cast
down, (cause to) come (-ing) down, fall (down), get down, go (-ing)
down (-ward), hang down, X indeed, let down, light (down), put down
(off), (cause to, let) run down, sink, subdue, take down.

Is. 38:8 is directly dealing with the sun and it is talking about the
sun going down and this is a totally different word than what is used
in Deut. 16:6 et. al. The word yarad literally means “to go
downwards”. If the evening was from noon on and Yahuah was speaking of
the sun going down He would have used the word yarad. So where did the
tradition of the evening sacrifice at 3:00 p.m. or the traditional
3:00 p.m. Passover sacrifice come from?

This just might be one of those things. Some things become ingrained
in us and we just believe it. So maybe we should take a little looksie
to see if “between the evenings” is from noon on because the text
really does not give that indication at all. Ben ha erebim – in the
midst of the evenings. When does that take place? At the departing of
the sun.

(from e-sword)
H935
בּוא
bô'
bo
A primitive root; to go or come (in a wide variety of applications): -
abide, apply, attain, X be, befall, + besiege, bring (forth, in, into,
to pass), call, carry, X certainly, (cause, let, thing for) to come
(against, in, out, upon, [b]to pass), depart[/b], X doubtless again, +
eat, + employ, (cause to) enter (in, into, -tering, -trance, -try), be
fallen, fetch, + follow, get, give, go (down, in, to war), grant, +
have, X indeed, [in-]vade, lead, lift [up], mention, pull in, put,
resort, run (down), send, set, X (well) stricken [in age], X surely,
take (in), way.


Something to think about.

Greg and dawn

Comment by j.e. 1 day ago
excellent points, gnd.

thanks for sharing.

j.e.

Comment by Beverly Wheeler 1 day ago
Shalom Greg & Dawn,

Greg said: How do you know the evening sacrifice always took place
around 3:00 p.m.? 3:00 p.m. would be ‘day’ – not evening.

If one thinks that "Evening" means "darkness" you have a wrong
concept, which contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5 that the
“Evening” Is “Day”!

#1 Because, according to YHWH’s WORD/SWORD of TRUTH YHWH said, “And
the EVENING & the Morning were the First DAY” Genesis 1:5. The “LIGHT”
YHWH called “DAY”! The “DARKNESS” YHWH called “NIGHT”!

And #2 - “In The Evening” is the time that the LAMB of YHWH was killed
- Exodus 12:6 and Matthew 27:45-50 - “45 From the SIXTH HOUR (NOON)
until the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm) darkness came over all the land.

46About the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm) YAHWSHUA (the LAMB of YHWH) cried out
in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama sabachthani. .... 50 And when
YAHWSHUA had cried out again in a loud voice, He gave up His Spirit.”
And,

Mark 15:34 - “And at the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm) YAHWSHUA cried with a
loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being
interpreted, My EL, My EL, why have You forsaken Me?”
And,

Luke 23:44-46 - “And it was about the SIXTH HOUR (NOON), and there was
a darkness over all the earth until the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm). 45 And
the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the
midst. 46 And when YAHWSHUA had cried with a loud voice, he said,
Father, into Your hands I commend My Spirit: and having said thus, He
gave up the ghost.”

Greg said: Continuing, “Strong’s Con. also say “Evening” means
Darkness which contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5. The “Evening”
is “Light” and “Light” = “Day”!”

Yes, Strong’s Con, says that “Evening” means Darkness, but that is
according to man’s thinking and not YHWH’s saying. Man’s saying on
“Even” & “Evening” in Strong’s does contradicts YHWH’s WORD/SWORD of
TRUTH in Genesis 1:5; Exodus 12:6.

Greg said. Yes, ben ha erebim means in the midst of the evening. So
your evening must last from noon until sunset?? You are assuming that
the going down of the sun means from noon forward. You are basing this
on what Scripture? Below we will provide more Scriptural evidence that
the going down of the sun is not from noon on.

No, we are not assuming. The going down of the sun means from Noon to
Sunset. That is the observable evidence, see again Isayah 38:8. At
Sunset the sun has already GONE DOWN, out of sight.

The Sun Dial is the oldest time instrument known to man, and on a
Sundial the shadow only GOES DOWN from Noon to Sunset. After sunset
there is no more shadow to go down, it is Night/Darkness.

QUESTION: “Tell me, O (YHWH) whom my soul loves, where You Feast,
where You make Your flock (Yisrael) to Rest/Shabbath at NOON:...” Song
1:7.

ANSWER: “From Even/Noon unto Even/Noon, shall ye celebrate your
Shabbath.” ... “At the Going Down of the sun” Leviticus 23:32;
Deuteronomy 16:6.

We know Greg & Dawn, may of these things are foreign to our thinking,
because we have been taught error from the cradle up. And that is why
we are admonished to “Prove All Things/Doctrine” from YHWH’s WORD/
SWORD of TRUTH. The first step in finding TRUTH is in acknowledging
our & man’s error. Let YHWH's WORD/SWORD speak and tell what is TRUTH.

Romans 3:4 - “Indeed, let YHWH Elohiym be True but every man a liar.
As it is written: “ That You may be JUSTIFIED in your words, And may
OVERCOME (the lying spirit) when You are Judged (by YHWH).”

Blessings in your search for YHWH’s True Seventh Day Shabbath Day.

YHWH’s servants,
Ralph & Beverly

Comment by HMK 22 hours ago
Dear Beverly,

I'm sorry if this is blunt, but according to scripture this statement
is incorrect:

"If one thinks that "Evening" means "darkness" you have a wrong
concept, which contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5 that the
“Evening” Is “Day”!"

Here is the verse that proves it:

Proverbs 7:6-9 "For at the window of my house I looked through my
lattice, and saw among the simple, I perceived among the youths, a
young man devoid of understanding, passing along the street near her
corner; and he took the path to her house in the twilight (H5399) at
the evening (H6153) of day (H3117) in the black (H380) of night
(H3915) and darkness (H653)."

twilight - 5399 - nshp - puff, wind breeze, blow up fresh, dusk or
dawn
evening - 6153 - see 6148-6151 - ayrb - intermingle, mix (as in day
with night)
day - 3117 - yum - season or space of time (is used throughout
scripture as day AND year)
black - 380 - a'yshun - pupil of the eye, black, obscure
night - 3915 - lylah - a twist or rotation away from light, night,
adversity
darkness - 653 - aplah - from 651 - to set as the sun, duskiness,
concealment

Now compare the above with the aybrym (hebrew) words in Genesis 1:5:

"And the Mighty One called the light (H216) day (H3117), and the
darkness (H2822) He called night (H3915), and was evening (H6153) and
was morning (H1242) day (H3117) one (H259)."

light - 216 - see 215-219 - aur - illumination, bright, clear
day - 3117 - yum - season or space of time (is used throughout
scripture as day AND year)
darkness - 2822 - achshk - from 2820/2821 - withhold, refuse, be dark,
darken, misery
night - 3915 - lylah - a twist or rotation away from light, night,
adversity
evening - 6153 - see 6148-6151 - ayrb - intermingle, mix (as in day
with night)
morning - 1242 - see 1239-1241 - bqr - plough through or break forth,
break of day, dawn
one - 259 - from 258 - a'achd - united, alike, one or first

So we can see from the above verse it could be read like this:

"And the Mighty One called the illumination a time period, and He
called the withholding a twisting away from the illumination, and the
dusky mixing and the breaking forth of the illumination were one
united time period."

Basically, one time period, that is day, equals all four aspects the
dusky mixing (evening), the twisting away of the light (night), the
breaking forth (dawning), and the clear illumination (light).

Keep in mind that each of these aspects, that is evening, night, and
dawning are nothing without the light - by the definitions evening is
a mixing of light, night is the withholding of light, and dawn is the
breaking forth of light.

So nothing of the 'day' could exist without the light, which is
probably why the scripture is worded "And the Mighty One called the
light day..." because all parts of this revolving time period are
based on the light, but we can't say that the darkened aspects of this
continually revolving time period don't count just because they aren't
100% light.

So, I don't see how you can say that scripturally a day is from noon
to noon when there is nothing at noon time distinguishing a breaking
forth or a mixing of the light and darkness, and the above TWO verses
act as TWO witnesses that verify evening is the bringing on and mixing
of darkness.
A third witness to what exactly denotes the period of a day according
to Yahuah is Leuiticus 23:32 as it speaks of keeping the day of
atonement:

"A sh'b't rest it is to you, and you shall humble you yourselves in
the ninth of the renewal (month) at evening (H6153) from evening
(H6153) to evening (H6153) shall you keep your sh'b't."

And remember evening is the intermingling of light with darkness, not
the peak of illumination, which is noon. So a full revolution of a day
according to the Almighty is from just before dark to just before
dark.

If I have misrepresented any of this information, please bring it to
my attention, and may our set-apart Father Yah guide us all as we seek
out the knowledge He intended for His people.


Comment by Greg and dawn 9 hours ago
Delete Comment Ralph & Beverly,

I sure would appreciate it if you could go back through my posts and
answer some of the other questions. We can only assume since they are
unanswered that you have no answer.

Quoting myself: “Greg said: How do you know the evening sacrifice
always took place around 3:00 p.m.? 3:00 p.m. would be ‘day’ – not
evening.”

As this is another question that you failed to answer I will answer it
for you:

[b]Babylonian Talmud, Book 3: Tracts Tracts Pesachim, Yomah and Hagiga
[/b]

CHAPTER V.

REGULATIONS CONCERNING THE SACRIFICE OF THE PASCHAL LAMB.

MISHNA: [b]The continual (daily) offering 1 was slaughtered half an
hour 2 after the eighth hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the
ninth hour;[/b] but on the day before Passover, whether that day
happened to be a week-day or a Sabbath, it was slaughtered half an
hour after the seventh hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the
eighth hour. When the day before the Passover happened to be a Friday,
it was slaughtered half an hour after the sixth hour, sacrificed half
an hour after the seventh hour, and the Passover sacrifice celebrated
(immediately) afterwards.
GEMARA: Whence do we know all this? Said Rabha: Because it is written
[Numbers xxviii. 4], "toward evening," we know that this religious
duty must be discharged when the sun commences to move towards the
west (evening). Then again, on all ordinary days, in respect to vow
and voluntary offerings, as it is written [Lev. vi. 5]: "And he shall
burn thereon the fat of the peace-offering." And the master said that
this signifies that all the other offerings must be sacrificed before
the daily offering. Hence this latter was slaughtered half an hour
after the eighth hour (two and one half hours after noon); but on the
day before Passover, when the paschal lamb had to be slaughtered after
the daily offering, the latter was slaughtered an hour sooner. If the
eve of Passover, however. fell on Friday, when the paschal lamb must
be roasted before the Sabbath set in, the literal text of the passage
in the Scriptures is abided by, and the [b]daily offering is
slaughtered as soon as the sun commences setting towards the west,[u]
i.e., half an hour after noon.[/u][/b]

R & B said, “If one thinks that "Evening" means "darkness" you have a
wrong concept, which contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5 that the
“Evening” Is “Day”!”

I did not say that evening means darkness. If I have said this you
need to quote me. I did say, “The evening is the mixing period that
comes after sunset. Morning is the mixing period before sunrise.” The
mixing period that I am referring to is the twilight period that takes
place after the sun goes below the horizon and before darkness fully
comes; as the morning is the opposite.

R & B said, “#1 Because, according to YHWH’s WORD/SWORD of TRUTH YHWH
said, “And the EVENING & the Morning were the First DAY” Genesis 1:5.
The “LIGHT” YHWH called “DAY”! The “DARKNESS” YHWH called “NIGHT”!”

And exactly where did He call the day evening? He did not. You also
fail to recognize that Yahuah was not establishing what a day is – He
was only establishing what took place after He worked that day. Also,
why would He have to tell us six days straight? He could have just
said, “The day begins in the evening and from evening to evening you
shall keep your day.” Go back to the Hebrew and tell me – that is does
not say ‘then came evening and then came morning’. You are strictly
going by what you see in the English rather than searching it out.

R & B said, “And #2 - “In The Evening” is the time that the LAMB of
YHWH was killed - Exodus 12:6 and Matthew 27:45-50 - “45 From the
SIXTH HOUR (NOON) until the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm) darkness came over all
the land.”

Thank you for bringing this verse up; you absolutely prove that the
time the lamb is to be slaughtered is not during the brightness the
day. If you would notice: [b]darkness came over the land[/b]. So the
time the Messiah was slain was not during the day (light) because
Yahuah caused the darkness.

Amo 8:9 “And it shall be in that day,” declares the Master יהוה, “that
[b]I shall cause the sun to go down at noon[/b], and shall darken the
earth on a day of brightness,
Amo 8:10 and shall turn your festivals into mourning, and all your
songs into lamentation, and bring sackcloth on all loins, and baldness
on every head, and shall make it like mourning for an only son, and
its end like a day of bitterness.

“to go down” = H935 – bo
“noon” = H6672 – tsohar

So according to Deut. 16:6 the lamb is to be killed at the going down
or the bo of the sun; clearly Amos 8:9 is not speaking of the sun
descending, but the sun’s going or departing. Which is exactly what
took place according to Matt. 27:45 as you have quoted.

R & B said, “46About the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm) YAHWSHUA (the LAMB of
YHWH) cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama
sabachthani. .... 50 And when YAHWSHUA had cried out again in a loud
voice, He gave up His Spirit.” And,

Mark 15:34 - “And at the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm) YAHWSHUA cried with a
loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being
interpreted, My EL, My EL, why have You forsaken Me?”
And,

Luke 23:44-46 - “And it was about the SIXTH HOUR (NOON), and there was
a darkness over all the earth until the NINTH HOUR (3:00pm). 45 And
the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the
midst. 46 And when YAHWSHUA had cried with a loud voice, he said,
Father, into Your hands I commend My Spirit: and having said thus, He
gave up the ghost.””

As Yahusha gave up His spirit there was still darkness over all the
land. So although He was impaled during the daylight hours which is
not the Scriptural time for the Passover Lamb to be slaughtered,
Yahuah Himself caused this darkness over the land that He would be
slaughtered at the correct time, at the going of the sun. Yahuah
caused the evening to come early on that day, as Amos 8:9 said He
would.

R & B said, “Greg said: Continuing, “Strong’s Con. also say “Evening”
means Darkness which contradicts the Testimony in Genesis 1:5. The
“Evening” is “Light” and “Light” = “Day”!””

Uh, I didn’t say that – you did. I was quoting you. Sorry we confused
you.

R & B said, “Yes, Strong’s Con, says that “Evening” means Darkness,
but that is according to man’s thinking and not YHWH’s saying. Man’s
saying on “Even” & “Evening” in Strong’s does contradicts YHWH’s WORD/
SWORD of TRUTH in Genesis 1:5; Exodus 12:6.”

No, you are twisting Yahuah’s Scriptures. Nowhere do the Scriptures
define evening as “noon on”. You contradict Yahuah’s word. We provide
Scriptures and you only provide copy and paste responses.

R & B said, “Greg said. Yes, ben ha erebim means in the midst of the
evening. So your evening must last from noon until sunset?? You are
assuming that the going down of the sun means from noon forward. You
are basing this on what Scripture? Below we will provide more
Scriptural evidence that the going down of the sun is not from noon
on.

No, we are not assuming. The going down of the sun means from Noon to
Sunset. That is the observable evidence, see again Isayah 38:8. At
Sunset the sun has already GONE DOWN, out of sight.”

And we have already used YeshaYahu 38:8 to show you that this is a
DIFFERENT WORD used speaking of the sun going down. Look up the word.
38:8 is specifically talking about the sun descending and then
ascending back. It is not speaking of going down as it does in Deut.
16:6. In both places it uses the English phrase going down and 38:8
literally means going down as in descending, Deut. 16:6 does NOT
literally mean going down as in descending. It means the going away
of, or departing of. Can’t you see? It seems you are getting hung up
whenever you see the words “going down” – you need to look these words
up for yourself.

R & B said, “The Sun Dial is the oldest time instrument known to man,
and on a Sundial the shadow only GOES DOWN from Noon to Sunset. After
sunset there is no more shadow to go down, it is Night/Darkness.”

Ok, so the garden came fully equipped with its own sundial??? Doubt
it. The oldest known time instruments are the luminaries. Which came
first? The luminaries or the sundial?

R & B said, “QUESTION: “Tell me, O (YHWH) whom my soul loves, where
You Feast, where You make Your flock (Yisrael) to Rest/Shabbath at
NOON:...” Song 1:7.

ANSWER: “From Even/Noon unto Even/Noon, shall ye celebrate your
Shabbath.” ... “At the Going Down of the sun” Leviticus 23:32;
Deuteronomy 16:6.”

Son 1:7 Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth, where thou feedest, where
thou makest thy flock to rest (7257) at noon: for why should I be as
one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?

H7257
רבץ
râbats
raw-bats'
A primitive root; to crouch (on all four legs folded, like a recumbent
animal); by implication to recline, repose, brood, lurk, imbed: -
crouch (down), fall down, make a fold, lay (cause to, make to) lie
(down), make to rest, sit.

Using that verse is quite a stretch to say that the day begins at
noon. What should be plain to all of us is that you are adding to the
Scriptures by calling the rest a Shabbat. So the rest spoken of here
seems to indicate to crouch:

Gen 4:7 “If you do well, is there not acceptance? And if you do not do
well, sin is crouching(7257) at the door. And its desire is for you,
but you should master it.”

So, shall we say that sin is sabbathing at the door?

R & B said, “We know Greg & Dawn, may of these things are foreign to
our thinking, because we have been taught error from the cradle up.
And that is why we are admonished to “Prove All Things/Doctrine” from
YHWH’s WORD/SWORD of TRUTH. The first step in finding TRUTH is in
acknowledging our & man’s error. Let YHWH's WORD/SWORD speak and tell
what is TRUTH.”

This is a perplexing statement. It might be read like this:

We know Greg and Dawn. Many of these things are foreign to our (Ralph
and Beverly’s) thinking, because we (Ralph and Beverly) have been
taught error from the cradle up. And that is why we (Ralph and
Beverly) are admonished to “Prove All Things/Doctrine” from YHWH’s
WORD/SWORD of TRUTH. The first step in finding TRUTH is in
acknowledging our (Ralph and Beverly’s) & man’s error. Let YHWH's WORD/
SWORD speak and tell what is TRUTH.

Speaking of “man’s error” – this brings us back to where ‘around the
3:00 p.m. offerings’. Your quote seems to indicate that we are in
error by following ‘man’s error’, but if you have noticed our
understanding does not line up with the Talmud and their understanding
of when the offerings take place. But your understanding is very much
based on the same understanding that we read in the Talmud. So in that
you accuse us of you have only accused yourself. You said, “Just
remember brother Dale, while you are pointing the finger, there are 3
fingers pointing back at you.” I’m sorry to say you cannot see the
fingers pointing back at yourself.

Now if you can only admit your error as there has been an overwhelming
plethora of Scripture to prove your understanding of the day beginning
at noon to be flawed. Not to mention your calendar not lining up with
the pin-pointed Sabbath on the 22nd day of the 2nd month; in which you
have not responded to as well as many other questions and comments.

R & B said, “Romans 3:4 - “Indeed, let YHWH Elohiym be True but every
man a liar. As it is written: “ That You may be JUSTIFIED in your
words, And may OVERCOME (the lying spirit) when You are Judged (by
YHWH).””

Indeed Yahuah Elohim is true. So where do the lies come from? And
where does this lying spirit abide?

Exo 30:7 “And Aharon shall burn on it sweet incense, morning by
morning. As he tends the lamps, he shall burn incense on it.
Exo 30:8 “And when Aharon lights the lamps between the evenings, he
shall burn incense on it – a continual incense before יהוה throughout
your generations.

Here we see explicit instructions of when the lamps are to be lit –
between the evenings or in the midst of the evening. So why would the
lamps be lit? And what time of the day do you light lamps?? What time
do you turn the lights on in your house? It is obvious that they would
have lit the lamps in the evening – the mixing period – as the sun
departs; that is when it starts to get dark and that’s even the time
that most of us start turning on the lights in our house. So if that
is an erroneous explanation – then please explain why the lamps would
be lit sometime after noon in the bright of the day.

2Ch 13:10 “But as for us, יהוה is our Elohim, and we have not forsaken
Him, and priests are serving יהוה, the sons of Aharon and the Lĕwites,
in the work,
2Ch 13:11 and are burning to יהוה every morning and every evening
burnt offerings and sweet incense, and the showbread is set on the
clean table, and the lampstand of gold with its lamps to burn every
evening, for we are guarding the Charge of יהוה our Elohim. But you
have forsaken Him.
2Ch 13:12 “And see, with us as Head is Elohim Himself, and His priests
with sounding trumpets to sound the alarm against you. O children of
Yisra’ĕl, do not fight against יהוה Elohim of your fathers, for you
are not going to prosper!”

Greg and dawn


Comment by Greg and dawn 8 hours ago
Delete Comment Shalom HMK,

We notice that you understand the day to begin at evening and we
thought we would give you a link that discusses when the day begins.
Here is the LINK

There is a lot of interesting Scriptural evidence to sort through and
even if your understanding doesn’t change at least you can have an
idea of why some of us begin the day in the morning. If you have any
input it would appreciated.

Thanks and Yahuah bless,

Greg and dawn


Comment by Greg and dawn 8 hours ago
Delete Comment Ralph and Beverly,

HMK touched on this lightly and I have been wanting to so, here I
will:

R & B said, “ANSWER: “From Even/Noon unto Even/Noon, shall ye
celebrate your Shabbath.” ... “At the Going Down of the sun” Leviticus
23:32; Deuteronomy 16:6.”

Lev 23:27 “On the tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of
Atonement. It shall be a set-apart gathering for you. And you shall
afflict your beings, and shall bring an offering made by fire to יהוה.
Lev 23:28 “And you do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of
Atonement, to make atonement for you before יהוה your Elohim.
Lev 23:29 “For any being who is not afflicted on that same day, he
shall be cut off from his people.
Lev 23:30 “And any being who does any work on that same day, that
being I shall destroy from the midst of his people.
Lev 23:31 “You do no work – a law forever throughout your generations
in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:32 ‘It is a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your
beings. On the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to
evening, you observe your Sabbath.”

You quoted Lev. 23:32 alone, you did not bring it into context
starting in verse 27. Obviously these verses are discussing the day of
Atonments and it is referred to as a Sabbath of rest and it
specifically says you will observe your Sabbath from the 9th day of
the month at evening from evening to evening. You are applying verse
32 to every Sabbath. This is the only Sabbath that is specifically
required to start from evening to evening. The Scriptures do not say
that you will keep your weekly Sabbath from evening to evening, nor
does it say you will keep any of your other Sabbaths from evening to
evening. So what we see here in verse 32 is Yahuah making a distinct
difference between the day of Atonements (Sabbath) and all others.
This is the only Sabbath that we are required to keep from evening to
evening. To use this as proof text that the day begins in the evening
is simply poor exegesis. If it is put into context correctly it shows
that the day of Atonements is the only Sabbath with this specific
requirement to begin in the evening.

This alone should be ample evidence that any other day does not begin
in the evening. This verse doesn’t even say that the day begins in the
evening – it says that from evening to evening you shall observe your
Sabbath; because it is obvious that the Sabbath begins on the 9th and
ends on the 10th at evening. There is no Scripture that says you begin
your weekly Sabbath on the 6th day at evening and from evening to
evening you keep your 7th day Sabbath. Nor does it say anywhere that
you should keep any other Sabbath from ‘X’ day in the evening to ‘X’
day in the evening.

You also used Deut. 16:6 –

Deu 16:6 but at the place where יהוה your Elohim chooses to make His
Name dwell, there you slaughter the Passover in the evening, at the
going down of the sun, at the appointed time you came out of
Mitsrayim.

This verse in no way implies that the day begins in the evening – it
says “you slaughter the Passover in the evening, at the going down of
the sun” – it in no way says that this is the beginning of a Sabbath.
It is a pin-pointed time when the Passover lamb is to be slaughtered…
in the midst of the evening at the going or departing of the sun as
Matt. 27:45 proves; again, poor exegesis.

Greg and dawn