Did YHVH create evil?
Moderator
Yeshiyah/'Isaiah' 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make
peace, and create evil: I YHVH do all these things."
Darkness isn't created. Darkness is the absence of YHVH's created
light. Darkness is the natural state of our existence without light,
the natural state of our entire physical universe before YHVH created
light.
Is evil then the natural state of man without YHVH's Spirit of Truth?
~ Moderator
Yahweh's Child
Yahweh knew this. This is why He sent messengers
over and over and over again and why man kept killing
them, even as He sent His own Son, who was also
killed and not believed.
To answer your final question here, consider what Yahweh
did over and over again.
He destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah ... because they were evil.
He cleansed the Earth in the great flood ... because they were evil.
He sent His Son to bring the message of good news .... because they
were evil.
He punished the 10 Tribes of Israel .... because they kept falling into
idolitry, making the evil.
This is why we are given the Right of Choice ... To follow Yahweh or
the ways of the world.
Following Yahweh is eternal life.
Following Lucifer is eternal death.
The decision is left up to you to decide. What is more important to you
and your life?
YC
kenrank
peace, and create evil: I YHVH do all these things."
Darkness isn't created.
>>I understand your main point, but I would differ on your statement above. To say "darkness isn't created," after you wrote YHWH's own words "I form the light and create darkness," seems odd. Clearly he did create darkness, at least in the physical sense. Everything this universe is, is a result of creation.
I have always been fascinated with the words "and create evil,"
however. I understand it, in the sense touched on by YC, we are
created, Lucifer was created, and though he is beyond redemption, we
have turned to the point of needing it.
Ken
Sally
light also had the effect of creating darkness and the action of making
peace also had the effect of creating evil. Without YHVH's Spirit of
Truth, man will in our natural state do evil. We weren't meant to have
the knowledge of good and evil in the first place.
peacantan
made that was made. That inclues Darkness which he also created, as
YHVH stated in Isaiah 45:7, or else your
saying Darkness was before Him and/or existed without His input?
Quinn Chaison
exist before HIM. The earth was not eternal, YHVH created it, He pull
the earth out of the darkness that was there before creation.
--
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalms 122:6
Yahweh's Child
> > John 1:3 All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything
> > made that was made. That inclues Darkness which he also created, as
> > YHVH stated in Isaiah 45:7, or else your
> > saying Darkness was before Him and/or existed without His input?--
> Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
> Psalms 122:6
You must read and remember, Yahweh created the stars and the heavens
all of which did not already exist in the "darkness" of the great
"void" in
what we call "space". His creation took 6 days, on the 7th, He rested.
Darkness and Void pre-existed Yahweh's creation. He created Light,
so we would know the difference of Time (between darkness and
daylight).
He created Man in His own image and created Woman from Adam's Rib
so that he would have a Companion to provide him comforts.
Yahweh is and forever shall be, our Creator. Yahshua the Messiah, His
Son,
is and forever shall be, our Savior, our Reedemer, our Light in the
Darkness
as we walk each path. He is always with us, offering guidance through
His
words of Wisdom, that he spat directly from our Heavenly Father Yahweh,
through the might and power of the Holy Spirit.
May Our Messiah come soon enough.
It is ordained and written so.
John Medwin
|
Of course YHWH created evil. He created "the smith to blow on the coals". (Isa 54) Satan does as is told (see Job). Also note the following verses:
1Ch 21:1 KJVA And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.2Sa 24:1 JPS And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He moved David against them, saying: 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'Take a look at the whole "fall of Lucifer" doctrine and you'll see it too is a myth. Adam fell, not Satan. If Satan "fell", who tempted him? He is the vehicle of temptation and testing. - John NC
-------Original Message------- |
Yahweh's Child
John Medwin wrote:
> Of course YHWH created evil. He created "the smith to blow on the coals".
> (Isa 54) Satan does as is told (see Job). Also note the following verses:
>
> 1Ch 21:1 KJVA And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to
> number Israel.
> 2Sa 24:1 JPS And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and
> He moved David against them, saying: 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'
> Take a look at the whole "fall of Lucifer" doctrine and you'll see it too is
> a myth. Adam fell, not Satan. If Satan "fell", who tempted him? He is the
> vehicle of temptation and testing.
> - John
===============================
John:
Please let me show you the way !
Lucifer was Yahweh's most beautiful
angel and creation. However, Lucifer
fought with Yahweh over the Power
that Yahweh has. He coveted it.
He wanted it. He thought he deserved
it.
He was WRONG. Lucifer fell from GRACE
and Yahweh gave him control over the Earth
for a time. He is a great impersonator. He
will NEVER match power with Yahweh. Yahweh
still has "control" over Lucifer as evidenced by
scripture and even into the Book of Revelations.
Adam, was drunk with emotions and passion
for Eve. She "tricked" him into tasting the forbidden
fruit. She in turn, was "tricked" into tasting that
fruit herself by Lucifer in the Garden.
Remember, Yahweh created Man in HIS own IMAGE.
He endowed us with faults and abilities, strengths &
weaknesses. He gave us CHOICE, FREE WILL.
We decide whether or not we will have Eternal Life
or suffer the fate of Death. It is all by choices we
make during our lives. Adam was weakened and
drunk with passion and emotion when it came to Eve.
But, she deceived him into tasting the fruit. He made
a choice.
You have a choice to make John M.
Will you take the Mark to eat and live and die,
or Will you choose Yahweh and His promise
of Eternal Life by refusing the Mark of the Beast,
the Sign of Lucifer?
Are you weak ? Do you have the conviction of your
Spiritual Awakening in Yahweh to stand forth and
deny Lucifer your soul and eternal death and damnation?
YC
Quinn Chaison
YHVH. For them to have been created with a propensity to sin then you
are saying YHVH is flawed by evil since Adam was created in the image
of YHVH. Our bodies were desinged to live forever. They are designed
to renew themselves every 7 years. It is only because of the
disobedience of Adam that death entered the world, and now we die.
When at the appointed time there is a new heaven and a new earth we
will be restored to the perfect immortal being that YHVH created in
the beginning.
John Medwin
|
YC: Chill out lady. This is a study forum is it not? Save your preaching and study this out...
Isa 14:12-19 JPS How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations! (13) And thou saidst in thy heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, above the stars of God will I exalt my throne, and I will sit upon the mount of meeting, in the uttermost parts of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.' (15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to the nether-world, to the uttermost parts of the pit. (16) They that saw thee do narrowly look upon thee, they gaze earnestly at thee: 'Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; (17) That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?' (18) All the kings of the nations, all of them, sleep in glory, every one in his own house. (19) But thou art cast forth away from thy grave like an abhorred offshoot, in the raiment of the slain, that are thrust through with the sword, that go down to the pavement of the pit, as a carcass trodden under foot.OK, read this carefully. Lucifer is called the morning star. Check it out in the NT and you'll see it has messianic connections and promises. That because it's Adam and we'll have the glory that he lost.
It was Adam that said he wanted to be like YHWH. Prove to me where Satan was once a good guy. It's a myth. According to this, this person wanted to be in the heavens - according to you, Lucifer was already there. Read on.
Who made the world a wilderness? Adam
Who was the "man that made the earth to tremble"? Adam (Satan is not, nor was he ever a man.)
Who was cast down to the pit (grave)? Adam
If Satan was all pretty and full of light like you said, then how if he was in the Presence of YHWH could sin enter him? Who tempted him? Where did this evil come from? Scripture is the story of man, not angels.
You've got the mark of the beast thing all wrong too, but we'll save that for another night.....
Shalom. (and I mean that!) Sounds like you need some. |
|
- John
NC
-------Original Message-------
|
From: Yahweh's Child
Date: 11/27/2006 7:21:14 PM
To: The Narrow Gate
Subject: Re: Did YHVH create evil? |
John Medwin wrote:
> Of course YHWH created evil. He created "the smith to blow on the coals".
> (Isa 54) Satan does as is told (see Job). Also note the following verses:
>
> 1Ch 21:1 KJVA And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to
> number Israel.
> 2Sa 24:1 JPS And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and
> He moved David against them, saying: 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'
> Take a look at the whole "fall of Lucifer" doctrine and you'll see it too is
> a myth. Adam fell, not Satan. If Satan "fell", who tempted him? He is the
> vehicle of temptation and testing.
> - John
===============================
John:
Please let me show you the way !
Lucifer was Yahweh's most beautiful
|
Angel and creation. However, Lucifer |
Yahweh's Child
1. I am no woman. I am a Man !
2. I gather from your quoting that you are quoting from a "Jewish"
bible of some kind.
I will consider the source on this. If you are "jewish, practicing
judahism" that would
certainly explain alot where you are coming from. The same tribe
that had my
Savior crucified so that a true criminal could go free. The same
tribe that denies
the existence of my Savior and denies the fact that He did appear
in the flesh before
your ancestors.
There would be nothing left to say to you sir except Shalom, have a
nice life, what's left of it, and, that if you expect to see any of us
in the new kingdom when it comes, I would
get on my face before Yahweh and ask for forgiveness for denying His
Son having come.
Moderator
originally posted by CEFLUDD @ aol.com. Please direct any reply to
them.)
Barabbas the thief- Bar= Son Abbas= Father(s) This name so accurately
reflects us- we are the thieves (sons of the fathers) that got to go
free because of the death of Yeshua. Judah did not crucify Him- He is
the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. What happened is
that in the fulness of time, what manifested in the heavens, happened
on earth. What happened on earth is simply a reflection of what was
ordained to happen from the beginning of time. The true YHWH hand
written gospel is revealed in the heavens thru the stars- not
astrology, but thru the constellations that YHWH set in their order in
creation. He refers to these order and ordinances in the books of Job
and Jeremiah. That is why you can have an angel declaring the
everlasting gospel because it was forever written in heaven (the
heavenly realm). Shalom
LeeJosephO
>> Man is inherently evil ... part of his nature, his being ...
>> ... we are given the Right of Choice ...
Man/men being "inherently evil" and having a "right of choice"
would be an impossible contradiction from a righteous Creator, YC, for
that would leave us incapable of making any right choice. Rather, we
would/could both knowingly and only make a wrong choice as a
manifestation of the evil within.
>> From: "Sally"
>> We weren't meant to have the knowledge of good and evil in the first place.
I think I believe that is true, Sally, but my mind then gets boggled by
many speculations as to what would/might/could have happened if we had
not ever come to know of it.
>> From "John Medwin"
>> Of course YHWH created evil. He created "the smith to blow on the coals" [and the waster to destroy]. (Isaiah 54)
Yes, and that is actually a good thing, eh?!
>> From: "Quinn Chaison"
>> Adam and Chava were created perfect, immortal - in the image of YHVH. For them to have been created with a propensity to sin [is to say] YHVH is flawed by evil since Adam was created in the image of YHVH ...
>> It is only because of the disobedience of Adam that death entered the world ...
Again, yes. Man was created ignorant of good and evil, and that could
only be a good thing ... and it is also a good thing that the evil of
death destroys the disobedient.
Question: Will the YHVH folks some day switch to YHWH?
Frank4YAHWEH
http://yahweh.blog-city.com/yahwehcreatesevil.htm
Sally
Sally
we don't, then we won't understand that we can live a sinless life
under Torah. Torah after all tells us what sin is. Yahushua said that
His yolk was light.
Sally
time to try and consider what the life of Adam was like before the
apple incident. Adam was 7 years and some months and days into his
creation before sin landed. So Yahweh has spoken to us with
instructions on this side of the apple. I guess it's one of the things
I will take delight in under the rule of Yahushua...to have knowledge
of only good things.
LeeJosephO
for plunder. For My judgment is to gather nations and assemble reigns
to pour out on them My rage, all my burning wrath. For by the fire of
My jealousy all the earth shall be consumed.
"For then I shall turn unto the peoples a clean lip [pure language],
so that they all call on the Name of YHWH, to serve Him with one
shoulder. From beyond the rivers of Kush my worshippers, the daughter
of My dispersed ones, shall bring My offering. In that day you shall
not be put to shame for any of your deeds in which you have
transgressed against Me, for then I shall remove from your midst your
proud exulting ones, and you shall no more be haughty in My set-apart
mountain.
"But I shall leave in your midst an oppressed and poor people, and
they shall trust in the Name of YHWH. The remnant of Yisra'el shall
do no unrighteousness and speak no falsehood, nor is a tongue of deceit
found in their mouth. For they shall feed their flocks and lie down,
with none to frighten them."
"Shout for joy, O daughter of Tsiyon! Shout, O Yisra'el! Be glad
and rejoice with all your heart, O daughter of Yerushalayim! YHWH has
turned aside your judgments. He has faced your enemy. The Sovereign
of Yisra'el, YHWH, is in your midst. No longer need you fear
evil." (Zephaniah 3:8-15)
I do not know the details of how the above is taking place, but I do
know what it means to "watch and wait" for YHWH-Saviour and
YHVH-Destroyer. We do not have to go anywhere to meet Him, and neither
do we have to prepare any place for ourselves. Truly, the Sovereign of
Yisra'el is already here among His own and we need not fear man's
evil.