Nano Reef Tank - 4 months into project
Gill Passman
Well it’s been around a month since I last reported on my little Nano Reef Project and boy has it been some month. It all started going wrong around the time I added another two coral colonies – some coffee coloured frilly mushrooms and a leather….(I also stuck in 6 money cowrie snails at the same time but they’ve done fine). After a couple of days the Clowns started chewing on the mushrooms – it didn’t take long for the shrooms to object by spewing their guts out all over the tank – apparently it is a defense mechanism adopted by some corals – looks like a whole big mass of white spaghetti…The leather didn’t look too happy either and one of the button colonies was looking decidedly ropey – covered in the horrible red slime algae that I had – some polyps had broken free – dead – I removed these. While removing the dead button polyps I spotted some blackish sand – I very carefully removed it and got that horrible egg smell that I guess all of us dread in our tanks – hydrogen sulphide…..Anyway I did a clean up as best I could and thought it was pretty much covered and went off to bed…..then…..
……I got up the following morning to find both of my Feeder Shrimps dead – they had been fine the day before – I did a salt mix so I could do a water change the next day – nothing instantaneous on marine stuff unlike FW where I would have reached for the bucket immediately….the remaining frilly mushroom looked a little better but the tank was still plagued with the red algae….The following morning I discovered a dead hermit….I did a water change and immediately started up a new mix so I could do another one asap….Next day things were looking a bit better all apart from the sick mushroom which detached itself from the Live Rock and floated off into oblivion – netted it out….The sick button colony was looking really bad and polyps were occasionally becoming detatched – I was worried that if I couldn’t get them they would pollute the water – by the end of the day I made the decision to evict the sick colony….when I lifted it from the water it was obvious that the colony was well gone – there is little as nasty as the smell of a dead coral colony – my guess is that the rotting polyps polluted the water and carried off the Cleaner Shrimps along with the buttons and eventually the new leather (which started to disintegrate – didn’t take any chances with that one it came out as soon as I spotted the problem).
Algae continued to be a big, big problem. The Saturday before Christmas I went out and bought some more clean up crew – 3 Sand Sifting Snails, another 3 blue legged hermits, a Sea Urching and 2 replacement Cleaner Shrimps. I’ve never seen creatures go down so quickly as those shrimps did once they got released into the tank L - I have since spoken to others who have also seen it – maybe it is a UK thing but the LFS seemed to think that they should have been pretty hardy….or it could just plainly be down to the differences in my water and that of the LFS (our Sg is different)…..The urchin didn’t look too happy either – it lost a few spines (but has made a full recovery now)…..I did a water change. Then while digging in the cabinets of one of my other tanks I found a small free sample sachet of Green-X Phosphate remover (my phosphates were still coming out at 0.25) and saw I could just rinse it and throw it in the tank (no need to put it in a filter) – so I did a water change and thought what the heck…We then went away for a few days….
When I came back the change in the tank was incredible….most but not all of the algae had gone, the Pink Star Polyps were a carpet again….the green star polyps were starting to show, the pulsing xenia had split itself again and the little Sea Urchin was trundling around the place, the remaining button colony no longer had polyps being smothered by red slime….. and it has continued to improve…..lesson learnt is that not only does even a small trace of phosphate promote algae in a marine tank in a worse way than in a freshwater BUT some corals are also sensitive to it…..in this instance the Star Polyps….
The Sea Urchin is a fascinating creature – he’s not in the pics as he was hiding down the back of the tank when I took them….I’ve never actually seen it move but move it does….one moment it will be on the glass near the top – I turn my back for a few minutes and he is sitting on the substrate at the opposite end of the tank….I guess he slowly rolls himself around which I could understand if he just rolled around on the sand but he rolls himself upwards and downwards as well – I’ve christened him Spike….
Learnt the hard way that Clownfish bite…..I was cleaning the inside glass when Nemo 1 came up and gave me quite a nip on the hand….very brave of it when you consider the size of my hand (let alone the rest of me) in comparison to a little fish….It’s now become a game of chicken when I try to clean the inside – both Nemos are getting braver and braver when it comes to me and are not scared of biting…..I guess I will be out investing in a magnetic algae scraper next time I go to the LFS…..the Nemos are a great little fish though….they charge around the tank continuously – I’ve even come down in the night and found them still busying themselves in the dark. Nemo 1 seems very keen on the button mushrooms (I don’t have an anemone) but was quite spiteful to the xenia having quite an aggressive nip the other day – the xenia retracted itself indignantly – no long term damage done as far as I can see….
I guess the next step might be to get a couple more corals and also to try more shrimps…..I’m very hesitant to go and buy the shrimps (£26 a pair) to see them curl up and die again but if I want them I guess I will have to bite the bullet and go for it…..in reality there is little more I can do with a tank this side apart from maintain it and enjoy…….but this experiment has shown me that I do have an interest in marine reef and has given me the confidence to want to set up a big reef tank – I have a tank in mind and hubby has given consent for it to be installed in addition to the freshwater ones…..just need to save a bit of money first but this gives me the time to research the equipment that I will need to buy…..
Gill
luca
> Well it's been around a month since I last reported on my little Nano Reef
> Project and boy has it been some month. It all started going wrong around
> mushrooms and a leather....(I also stuck in 6 money cowrie snails at the same
> time but they've done fine). After a couple of days the Clowns started
> spewing their guts out all over the tank - apparently it is a defense
> mechanism adopted by some corals - looks like a whole big mass of white
> spaghetti...The leather didn't look too happy either and one of the button
> colonies was looking decidedly ropey - covered in the horrible red slime
> algae that I had - some polyps had broken free - dead - I removed these.
> While removing the dead button polyps I spotted some blackish sand - I very
> carefully removed it and got that horrible egg smell that I guess all of us
> could and thought it was pretty much covered and went off to bed.....then.....
>
>
>
> ......I got up the following morning to find both of my Feeder Shrimps dead -
> they had been fine the day before - I did a salt mix so I could do a water
> change the next day - nothing instantaneous on marine stuff unlike FW where
> I would have reached for the bucket immediately....the remaining frilly
> mushroom looked a little better but the tank was still plagued with the red
> change and immediately started up a new mix so I could do another one
> mushroom which detached itself from the Live Rock and floated off into
> polyps were occasionally becoming detatched - I was worried that if I
> couldn't get them they would pollute the water - by the end of the day I
> made the decision to evict the sick colony....when I lifted it from the water
> it was obvious that the colony was well gone - there is little as nasty as
> the smell of a dead coral colony - my guess is that the rotting polyps
> polluted the water and carried off the Cleaner Shrimps along with the
> didn't take any chances with that one it came out as soon as I spotted the
> problem).
>
>
>
> Algae continued to be a big, big problem. The Saturday before Christmas I
> 3 blue legged hermits, a Sea Urching and 2 replacement Cleaner Shrimps. I've
> never seen creatures go down so quickly as those shrimps did once they got
> seen it - maybe it is a UK thing but the LFS seemed to think that they
> should have been pretty hardy....or it could just plainly be down to the
> differences in my water and that of the LFS (our Sg is different).....The
> urchin didn't look too happy either - it lost a few spines (but has made a
> full recovery now).....I did a water change. Then while digging in the
> cabinets of one of my other tanks I found a small free sample sachet of
> Green-X Phosphate remover (my phosphates were still coming out at 0.25) and
> saw I could just rinse it and throw it in the tank (no need to put it in a
> away for a few days....
>
>
>
> When I came back the change in the tank was incredible....most but not all of
> the algae had gone, the Pink Star Polyps were a carpet again....the green star
> polyps were starting to show, the pulsing xenia had split itself again and
> the little Sea Urchin was trundling around the place, the remaining button
> continued to improve.....lesson learnt is that not only does even a small
> trace of phosphate promote algae in a marine tank in a worse way than in a
> Star Polyps....
>
>
>
> The Sea Urchin is a fascinating creature - he's not in the pics as he was
> hiding down the back of the tank when I took them....I've never actually seen
> it move but move it does....one moment it will be on the glass near the top -
> I turn my back for a few minutes and he is sitting on the substrate at the
> could understand if he just rolled around on the sand but he rolls himself
>
>
>
> Learnt the hard way that Clownfish bite.....I was cleaning the inside glass
> when Nemo 1 came up and gave me quite a nip on the hand....very brave of it
> when you consider the size of my hand (let alone the rest of me) in
> clean the inside - both Nemos are getting braver and braver when it comes to
> me and are not scared of biting.....I guess I will be out investing in a
> magnetic algae scraper next time I go to the LFS.....the Nemos are a great
> little fish though....they charge around the tank continuously - I've even
> come down in the night and found them still busying themselves in the dark.
> Nemo 1 seems very keen on the button mushrooms (I don't have an anemone) but
> was quite spiteful to the xenia having quite an aggressive nip the other day
> as I can see....
>
>
>
> I guess the next step might be to get a couple more corals and also to try
> see them curl up and die again but if I want them I guess I will have to
> with a tank this side apart from maintain it and enjoy.......but this experiment
> has shown me that I do have an interest in marine reef and has given me the
> hubby has given consent for it to be installed in addition to the freshwater
> research the equipment that I will need to buy.....
>
Hi Gill,
I love reading about your reef adventures :-) Particularly enjoy how
you describe the interaction between the inhabitants. Do you think
that high phosphates was killing your stock? You use RO-DI water, so
I'm curious how phosphates got into your tank, perhaps overfeeding?
I too hope one day to be able to build a reef tank. I'm reading books
and keep browsing stores and online, but of course nothing beats
'hands-on' experience.
My ideal tank would be a 120G, but that's freaking expensive. I came
to an estimate of around $4-6,000 for a tank that size. :-(
Alternative is going for a smaller tank, perhaps a 28 cube or 45G?
What's keeping me is the thought that the investment would still be
significant, and at the same time I won't be able to reuse the most
expensive parts (lighting, skimmer...) when I upgrade. If you think
that I'm still trying to rationalize buying the big tank, well, you're
right ;-)
Luca
Tommy Butler
--
Tommy Butler
Gill Passman
luca wrote:
>
> Hi Gill,
> I love reading about your reef adventures :-) Particularly enjoy how
> you describe the interaction between the inhabitants.
Thanks :-)
> Do you think
> that high phosphates was killing your stock?
I'm pretty certain that the high phosphates were retarding the Star
Polyps just because of how they are now I added the phosphate remover
and stuff other people have said to me. The buttons, I guess, died
because they were smothered by the algae, which of course was the
bi-product of the phosphates....now I would not have considered 0.25
high but then with hindsight I remember reading 0 phosphates is the
only good reading for a reef tank
> You use RO-DI water, so
> I'm curious how phosphates got into your tank, perhaps overfeeding?
The water is RO only but I have tested it out for phosphates/nitrates
and these come back zero....I'm not sure if it was overfeeding or
whether just a bi-product of die offs in the live rock when I put it in
the tank......one thing is for sure and that is I need to keep it at
zero..
.
>
> My ideal tank would be a 120G, but that's freaking expensive. I came
> to an estimate of around $4-6,000 for a tank that size. :-(
I'm just about to cost out for a 96g tank - I'll let you know how much
it comes out at....of course this will be before any livestock but then
I almost look at that as an ongoing expense of any tank....
> Alternative is going for a smaller tank, perhaps a 28 cube or 45G?
> What's keeping me is the thought that the investment would still be
> significant, and at the same time I won't be able to reuse the most
> expensive parts (lighting, skimmer...) when I upgrade.
Well the cost factor was one of the reasons I decided to try the little
Nano tank first before going out and making the investment in a large
tank. The little Protein Skimmer I bought was a snip at £18 - not the
most sophisticated of things but does the job. As for the investment in
the rest of the stuff - lighting included - as I don't intend tearing
down the tank for me it wasn't a wasted investment.
> If you think
> that I'm still trying to rationalize buying the big tank, well, you're
> right ;-)
>
I kind of guessed that - he, he
Gill
default
Uh-oh
Now you've done it
I want one now.
The picture with the clowns did it.
Now my short list includes a 75-120g freshwater tank in my office, a
pond in the back yard and now a SW tank. That doesn't even include the
20g that will need to be set up for the cichlid fry soon to come. Dear
me. I think I might have a problem.
steve
luca
> I'm just about to cost out for a 96g tank - I'll let you know how much
> it comes out at....of course this will be before any livestock but then
> I almost look at that as an ongoing expense of any tank....
96 gallons eh... What are the dimensions? I'm around a $4,000 estimate
for a 120G without any livestock, buying good quality parts. One of
the most common piece of advice I read from people in the hobby is that
it doesn't pay to buy cheap stuff. Then again, it's like Mr. Fawlty
used to say: "the sky's the limit"! :-)
Luca
luca
It would be interesting to know what kind of monetary boost Finding
Nemo caused to the SW aquarium business. There's no SW LFS in my area
that doesn't have at least a couple of Clownfish in their display reef
tank. Anyway, clownfish are incredible, and on our list too. :-) Just
have to decide what species...?
Luca
Tommy Butler
--
Tommy Butler
Greg Wade
Altum
luca wrote:
> It would be interesting to know what kind of monetary boost Finding
> Nemo caused to the SW aquarium business. There's no SW LFS in my area
> that doesn't have at least a couple of Clownfish in their display reef
> tank. Anyway, clownfish are incredible, and on our list too. :-) Just
> have to decide what species...?
If you're trying for a clownfish/anemone pair, figure out what kind of
anemone you want to keep first, then choose the clown. Clownfish are
most likely to adopt their natural host anemone, although unusual
pairings can form in reef tanks. "Nemo" clowns (A. percula) live in
problem anemones - stinging, fish-eating carpet anemones and delicate
Ritteri anemones. A bubble tip anemone and tomato clown is a much
easier choice.
--Altum
Gill Passman
Greg Wade wrote:
> One thing I've noticed is you don't need to spend nearly $4,000 on your reef
> tanks. I run a 75gal tank with a Fluval filter, protein skimmer, UV filter,
> lighting, live sand and rocks and I'm well under $1,000. I don't have a
> refugium or sump.
I'm certainly not looking at spending anywhere near $4000 on the tank
I'll be getting....I was hoping it would cost out just under £1000
including the tank and stand....of course the live rock and sand will
be an added cost. The livestock I don't really count as this is
something that will be spread out over many months - and if I wasn't
buying corals, inverts, marine fish etc. I'd be spending it on
something else fishy related ;-)
> The new light will run me ~$600 if I don't DIY something with my tax refund.
>
Wonder how many members of this group are mentally spending their tax
refunds - he, he - mine will go towards the big tank - reminds me need
to go do my tax return and work out how much they owe me....
> I've priced a 180 gallon setup and have been able to keep the cost under
> $2,000. I almost had a used one the LFS was tearing down to make more room
> for supplies for $800. I'm really kicking myself for not getting it now.
My LFS has a tank on clearance offer - with skimmer, filter, sump,
heater, salt, additives, RO water, Live Rock, Substrate, tank backing,
cabinet and test kits thrown in they are looking for £1600 - not sure
of the volume but it is quite a big beast....showed it to hubby but he
wants a corner tank....
>
> I do have 3 clowns because I took the time to see the clown species is
> fairly hardy and easy to get to breed. It was a result of the movie bringing
> this species to the forefront. However, NONE of them are named NEMO!!!
Well, I wouldn't have called mine Nemo myself....and even if one got
called Nemo I wouldn't have called both of them Nemo - made the mistake
of letting the kids name them - they insisted on Nemo 1 and Nemo
2....spose I could call them One and Two for short...
> I do
> think its hilarious that the female nips at me when I go to clean the tank
> near her "home".
Wonder if it is a girl thing then......it is my female Clown that bites
me rather than the male....
Gill
luca
Greg Wade wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> One thing I've noticed is you don't need to spend nearly $4,000 on your reef
> tanks. I run a 75gal tank with a Fluval filter, protein skimmer, UV filter,
> lighting, live sand and rocks and I'm well under $1,000. I don't have a
> refugium or sump. My 3 clowns, 7 Green Chromis, 3 Yellow Tangs and the rest
> of my tank are fine. I don't have any corals or clams yet so I don't need
> the high intensity lighting. That will be in the (hopefully) near future.
> The new light will run me ~$600 if I don't DIY something with my tax refund.
>
> I've priced a 180 gallon setup and have been able to keep the cost under
> $2,000. I almost had a used one the LFS was tearing down to make more room
> for supplies for $800. I'm really kicking myself for not getting it now.
Hi Greg,
I was talking about a reef tank, built with new, good quality parts,
not a fish only one. I realize that if you don't plan to keep corals /
inverts, or if you buy used parts, the cost can be substantially
reduced. Still, I'd be curious how you managed to build your 75G for
under $1000. ;-) It was also my impression that a sump is highly
recommended for a big reef tank (again, not just FOWLR).
> As someone else has mentioned, keep an eye on craigslist, your local paper
> and the LFS for potential used tanks and parts. You may be able to find
> parts from any local clubs, too.
I do keep an eye on craiglist and other similar sites. I've seen some
good deals go by, but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable buying used
stuff. Prhaps when I know a bit more.
> You can find confessions of my addiction here: http://fish/mdhowler.com. I
> have an equipment page as well as pics of my tanks and the inhabitants.
>
> I do have 3 clowns because I took the time to see the clown species is
> fairly hardy and easy to get to breed. It was a result of the movie bringing
> this species to the forefront. However, NONE of them are named NEMO!!! I do
> think its hilarious that the female nips at me when I go to clean the tank
> near her "home". She also chases off the green Chromis and the Yellow Tangs
> when they get too close. The real kicker is watching her attack the
> chocolate chip star when he tries to eat an anemone.
I thought that anemones would need bright light too...
Luca
luca
> If you're trying for a clownfish/anemone pair, figure out what kind of
> anemone you want to keep first, then choose the clown. Clownfish are
> most likely to adopt their natural host anemone, although unusual
> pairings can form in reef tanks. "Nemo" clowns (A. percula) live in
> problem anemones - stinging, fish-eating carpet anemones and delicate
> Ritteri anemones. A bubble tip anemone and tomato clown is a much
> easier choice.
I like Clark CF, I'll have to do some research on their natural host
anemone. This is the good side of not being able to afford something:
you have a lot of time for research... :-)
Luca
Mellie
far please? will make a list and put it away until a) I feel like I
have enough expertise and confidence to try it and b) I can pursade
hubby that I need it. Still working on the pygmy puffers so might be a
way off :-)
Cheers
Mellie
Gill Passman
luca wrote:
>
>
> I thought that anemones would need bright light too...
>
> Luca
My understanding as well....however from my research and chatting to my
LFS my current 3 T8s in a 15 gall (45Watts of light) would probably
suffice....I just don't have the space for an anenome right now -
filled the open substrate with corals.
When it comes to lighting intensity with corals it really depends on
which ones you pick or want.....some soft corals do just fine with a
lower intensity of light (ie. no need to go out and get those expensive
halides) - I'm happy so far with my soft corals - there is still an
immense range to chose from which I'm sure Greg would also be able to
support.....and in fact I have found some soft corals do not appreciate
the light intensity of the three T8s and need to go right at the bottom
of the tank to thrive.....
Gill
Gill Passman
be spending on the big reef tank?
I can supply either - well the big tank will take a while as I'm only
just starting to gather the info....
Gill
Mellie
what equipment you have used.
Thanks Gill
Mellie
Greg Wade
luca
> Luca,
>
> 75G tank = $100, stand = $150, UV filter = $50, SeaClone protein
> =
> $100, Aqualight dual
> T5<http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/advancedSearch.web?command=search&searchParams.priceRange%5B1%5D=100.0>=
> $55, Aqualight
> Dual CF<http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/productInfo.web?infoParam.mode=1&infoParam.itemKey=209657>
> =
> $155, Fluval 404<http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/productInfo.web?infoParam.mode=1&infoParam.itemKey=214941>=
> $99 (it was on sale), 4
> $80, Live rock = $100. I come up with about $900 ($889). All of these
> parts were new in box.
>
> Having the anemones qualifies me as a reef tanker. Both of the LFS I
> frequent have told me I have enough light for several types of corals. I
> even had 2 corals at one point. One fell victim to Chip (my chocolate chip
> star) the other was my fault. I would really like some of the nicer corals
> and clams. That will set me back some for the lighting. Until then, I'll
> have to settle for some soft corals and anemones. I may be able to talk my
> wife into a nicer light. That would put my setup fees at about $1,509 with this
Greg,
I guess I assumed (maybe the bit where you encouraged me to keep an eye
on craiglist?) that that's how you managed to keep your cost so low.
Lesson learned: never assume. :)
I'm sorry if my comments sounded snide, it wasn't my intention. I
should have also been more clear that I'd like to be able to keep SPS
and clams.
Luca
Greg Wade
Gill Passman
doc increased my blood pressure meds yesterday - I've been asleep most
of the day - need to go back and see him on Monday I guess if it
doesn't improve over the weekend....
Gill
Marco Schwarz
Hmm.., reminds me to my own (one and only) contact to beta-blockers.
Although I'm an early bird I started hating the early morning duty
after taking in the beta-blockers..
[...Nano...]
Thanks for charing pics..! Made my happy to read you were able to fight
back the algae and that your corals have recovered. Things develop.
How big is the Sea urchin..?
Three weeks ago the brown algae seemed to conquer the 3.5g nano lighted
with a 18W 10K tube located in the small conservatory in northern
direction. The brown algae were suddenly all over the substrates and
glass panes but I held off and didn't do anything (or did nothing?!?)..
This week the boot is on the other foot. My busy snail and starfish
crew began to repress them.
BTW: a little while ago I had the honour to welcome the 6th tiny
"Geesefoot" (starfish). It's only 2-3 mm..
cu
Marco