更準確的用辭:反襯式敘述(Re: 太不可思議了 (Re: 川普真的支持六四屠杀吗?))

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Xiaogang Zhang (G)

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Dec 27, 2020, 8:35:04 PM12/27/20
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如果張三跟父親一起上街,看見恐怖分子當街濫殺無辜,張三隨即對其父說「啊,他們顯示了強大的力量。而你就被視為軟弱,讓人瞧不起!」然後你說張三這個對比性的敘述,只是對恐怖分子「中性的描述」而不是對恐怖分子的讚賞?


更準確的用辭:張三也好,川普也好,用的是「反襯式敘述」,用反襯某一件事物的「好」,去說明另一件事物的「不好」,因此絕不是什麼「中性描述」。



On 28/12/2020 12:06 pm, Xiaogang Zhang (G) wrote:
Tom 說要看英語原文上下文,這很對,非常贊同!但問題是,你自己真的看了上下文(特別是下面的黑體部分)?

Trump:When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak … as being spit on by the rest of the world—



不管你是採信美国之音翻譯的版本:
当记者问川普是否是支持中国政府处理天安门事件时,他回答说:“当学生们涌入天安门广场时,中国政府几乎搞砸了。接着,这些学生就凶狠可怕起来,但他们用力量把它平息下去了。这显示了力量的强大。我们国家目前让人觉得软弱,被世界其它国家啐吐沫。
還是紐約時報翻譯的版本:
【1990年,特朗普接受《花花公子》(Playboy)采访时表示,北京在一年前派出军队平息由学生领导的示威活动,展示了“强大的力量”。
他当时说“学生大批涌入天安门广场时,中国政府差点控制不住局面,接着他们就狠了起来,非常可怖,但他们强力将它压了下去。这显示出强大的力量。我们的国家现在被认为是软弱的,遭到世界上其他国家的蔑视。

或是你自己翻譯一個版本,你都不應該忽略緊接著的下文「Our country is right now perceived as weak … as being spit on by the rest of the world」吧?

如果張三跟父親一起上街,看見恐怖分子當街濫殺無辜,張三隨即對其父說「啊,他們顯示了強大的力量。而你就被視為軟弱,讓人瞧不起!」然後你說張三這個對比性的敘述,只是對恐怖分子「中性的描述」而不是對恐怖分子的讚賞?

川普三十年前並未從政,不在乎隨便說些什麼,三十年後競選總統了,就只得為以前說過的太過「政治不正確」的話做些牽強的掩飾,這是可以理解的。

作為一向強調邏輯和求實的學者,挺川不是問題,但是為了挺川和崇拜的立場,也刻意忽略上下文而牽強地曲解,就太不可思議了。


澳洲曉剛


On 26/12/2020 12:17 pm, 'Tianming Li' via FDC Canada wrote:


先看花花公子1990年采访川普时谈及六四屠杀时的英语上下文:


What were your other impressions of the Soviet Union?


Trump:I was very unimpressed. Their system is a disaster. What you will see there soon is a revolution; the signs are all there with the demonstrations and picketing. Russia is out of control and the leadership knows it. That’s my problem with Gorbachev. Not a firm enough hand.

You mean firm hand as in China?

Trump:When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak … as being spit on by the rest of the world—

Why is Gorbachev not firm enough?

Trump:I predict he will be overthrown, because he has shown extraordinary weakness. Suddenly, for the first time ever, there are coal-miner strikes and brush fires everywhere—which will all ultimately lead to a violent revolution. Yet Gorbachev is getting credit for being a wonderful leader—and we should continue giving him credit, because he’s destroying the Soviet Union. But his giving an inch is going to end up costing him and all his friends what they most cherish—their jobs.

如果不看这些英语上下文就不懂为何川普说“中共展示了强大力量”的真实含义。因为他在对比“中共强大可怕的控制力”与“苏联戈尔巴乔夫政府虚弱的控制力”。然而,在汉语译文中省略了上下文,而且没有准确意译川普对六四屠杀话题中的观点。

看来,对川普评论的不同中文翻译会让读者有不同的理解。我们看看两大美国媒体中文部翻译的中文版是如何荒腔走板的。

一是美国之音译本,二是纽时译本。两相对照,可以看出:听英文原话更重要,有逻辑思维最重要。

一,美国之音版本:

【1990年,川普在接受《花花公子》(Playboy)杂志采访时甚至赞扬北京政府在1989年派出军队平息由学生领导的示威活动,展示了“强大的力量”。

当记者问川普是否是支持中国政府处理天安门事件时,他回答说:“当学生们涌入天安门广场时,中国政府几乎搞砸了。接着,这些学生就凶狠可怕起来,但他们用力量把它平息下去了。这显示了力量的强大。我们国家目前让人觉得软弱,被世界其它国家啐吐沫。”

在今年3月10日晚间的共和党总统竞选辩论上,川普被要求对这段话做出说明,川普说,他只是中性描述一个“强有力”的政府镇压了骚乱,并非赞同。】


二,纽时版本:

【1990年,特朗普接受《花花公子》(Playboy)采访时表示,北京在一年前派出军队平息由学生领导的示威活动,展示了“强大的力量”。
他当时说“学生大批涌入天安门广场时,中国政府差点控制不住局面,接着他们就狠了起来,非常可怖,但他们强力将它压了下去。这显示出强大的力量。我们的国家现在被认为是软弱的,遭到世界上其他国家的蔑视。”
周四,CNN主持人杰克·塔珀(Jake Tapper)在辩论中问特朗普,一些评论者对他的这些言论以及他对威权的颂扬表示担忧,对此他准备如何回应。
特朗普说:“我当时不是在表示赞同,我说的是,那是一个强大、有力的政府,用强力平息了它,接着他们镇压了那次骚乱,是件很可怕的事,这绝不意味着我是在赞同”。】

哈哈哈哈😄,这就是我从不相信中文翻译的原因,凡有英语原文的,我必须找到原文才能判断是非,绝不相信中文版本。
Tom
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