Vaccinations & Veganism

[Shmuly Yanklowitz]

Shalom Friends, 

I just received an interesting call from an Orthodox family in the UK. They have a family conflict. The father insists that the children be vaccinated but the mother and daughter are opposed (since they're vegan and many vaccinations are made with animal products - human and animal tissues). They have turned to me as the only Orthodox Rabbi vegan (that they know of and I guess that I know of as well) to help them navigate this conflict. 

1. Vegan Doctors on this list - how have you navigated this? Do you feel that there are strong health alternative approaches to vaccination or is it only socially irresponsible? 

2. Other Vegans on the list (who don't eat or wear animal products) - how have you navigated the vaccination issue? 

3. Rabbis & Jewish Thinkers on the list - how do you think this clash of values (shalom bayit, health, social responsibility, animal concern) should be navigated? 

Thanks, Have a great day, Shmuly

L'Shalom, 
Rav Shmuly 

Rabbi Dr. Shmuly Yanklowitz
Founder & CEO 
The Shamayim V'Aretz Institute 

[adamfrank38 .]

I have no previous experience fielding this specific question.  The points that come to mind are:

1. רפא ירפא -- we are instructed to be Gd's agents in being pro-active in caring for human health.

2. Many, if not all, medical advances and distributed medicines are the result (among other things) of testing on animals.  Taking simple aspirin means benefiting from the use of animal experimentation.  Are the mother and daughter completely consistent in all of their lifestyle decisions so that they derive no benefit from such practices?

3. Are mother and daughter 100% opposed to all animal experimentation for medical research?  Significant numbers of human lives have been / are saved due to some critical animal experimentation.  Future cures for current deathly viruses and diseases will be delayed or not discovered without the use of necessary animal experimentation.  [For the record:  I am adamantly opposed to animal experimentation for non-medical research, and for the outrageous experiments done in the name of medical research]

4. The rubber in automobile tires is made with animal fats -- just an example of how prevalent animal products are in everyday items. [does/will mother avoid post-menopause hormone meds because they are made from animal product extraction?]

5. Were the child to be visiting a third world country with possible exposure to malaria, would the mother and daughter deny the child the malaria vaccination?  (the scenario could be more urgent -- snake bite venom anti-dote comes from animal products),

6. The only reason it could be safe for a child not to be vaccinated is because the rest of the population is vaccinated -- so the child will not be exposed to dangerous viruses.  In this way, it is a very selfish act to decide not to vaccinate one's child while everyone else does.

7. Don't allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.  The most severe animal welfare issues are not the result of such vaccinations. 

8. Will the mother be opposed to the son having his own set of kosher tefillin upon becoming a bar mitzvah?

9. What is reaction of mother and daughter to Christian Scientists who deny their children medical care and the child dies of a preventable cause?

10. Can the father point to compromises he has made for his wife's vegan values...he is asking for her compromise not for himself but for his child (even when one spouse thinks other spouse is being "over the top" regarding parenting, we cut that parent some slack because a parent's concern for child is in a special category)

11. What is reaction of mother and daughter to Jewish spouse who is opposed to bris for male baby? (see mitzvah of רפא ירפא)

shabbat shalom, Adam

Rabbi Adam Frank
Congregation Moreshet Yisrael
Jerusalem, Israel
02-625-3539
www.moreshetyisrael.com
www.adamfrank.typepad.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Shamayim V'Aretz Institute" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ShamayimVAret...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Shamayi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ShamayimVAretz/CAMiv-jbCiY_mPmzMUdbmQ7G1etAi%3DoJkLw0mYX_SzxhtvMcnBg%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Fred Scherlinder Dobb]

All good points.  I’d written to Shmuly in similar spirit these three quick thoughts:

1, Pikuach nefesh docheh et sh’ar hamitzvot (“the [even possible] saving of a life pushes aside all the other commandments”) --and vaccinations are (at least incrementally) about pikuach nefesh for those children, and (with polio and others) also about life for others as well.

                2, batel b’shishim, or even batel b’elef -- the amount of animal product, if any, is small, and even the logic of strict kashrut allows for a tiny amount of problematic ingredients (not of course if it’s intentional, but the standard is always different there between that which is consumed and that which benefits us in other ways).

                3, Shmuley was right to frame this as a values conflict -- to my mind, both the minute amount of objectionable contaminant in question, and the fact that it’s essentially an optional chumra (stricture) and even a ‘neder’ (vow) of the sort that we’re often cautioned against, suggest that pure avoidance of anything of concern is a lower level value than public health and individual health.  As it were, the commitment to the purest possible veganism is like a debatable d’rabbanan principle, up against some yet clearer d’oreita values. 

 

I’m hearing a convergence between the two threads, including Richard’s and others’ reflections on public educational shechita.  Adam says it exactly:  don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  Neither refusing life-saving vaccinations over a few micrograms of animal product, nor attacking a leading Jewish-environmental-educational group for doing what’s common in the larger world (but more sensitively and with greater impact than most anyone else), will gain support to our cause.  If the face of Jewish vegetarianism/veganism is (or is perceived as) an uncompromising one, we will hardly be able to convince current carnivores of the problematic nature of their diets.  Good communication *is* advocacy:  as we most effectively meet people where they are, and sensitively change minds and hearts, we most effectively save the animals or the ecosystems that would be lost otherwise. 

 

Shalom, all…    -- Fred

Rabbi Fred Scherlinder Dobb

www.adatshalom.net

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ShamayimVAretz/CAP7XpmODe86_A7E3sY_VxLyBB_Ue-fVkJVxK35S20aR2LQk8xw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Esser Agaroth]

I am sure one could use piqu'ah nefesh as support for vaccinations and justify their source.

I must admit, I am very biased on this issue, and am very much against these traditional vaccinations, regardless of their sources.

Shalom Bayith is certainly an issue. If the vaccinations were shown to be truly preventative of disease and to combat sakkanath nefesh, then I don't think the wife's position would have a leg to stand on, and would have to concede. But, I cannot say that vaccinations DO what they say they do in the first place, and have been known to cause health problems at least in some cases.

I would love to point to definitive research to support my position. But, there is so much medical

Personally, I can only think to support what you are already doing, consulting with medical professionals regarding vaccines, in particular, vegan medical professionals, and ones who are known to have issues with the medical establishment.

These professionals, I believe, would be more likely to think out of the box on this one. They make have quick access to the best research to show the family pro and con, to help them make their decision about vaccines.

--

Esser Agaroth (2¢)  
                   

IRS Out Of Israel!

On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Shmuly Yanklowitz <ravs...@shamayimvaretz.org> wrote:

[Esser Agaroth]

"8. Will the mother be opposed to the son having his own set of kosher tefillin upon becoming a bar mitzvah?"

This is a very interesting question, indeed.

I will be interested in see the comments on this vegan can of worms, or rather, can of beans, on this string or another.

--

Esser Agaroth (2¢)  
                   

IRS Out Of Israel!

[Pauline Yearwood]

I am pretty much staying out of this -- I was not vegan when my children were little, and they received the normal vaccinations. But I greatly appreciate reading the thoughtful replies.

I will say that my daughter, my 100-percent-vegan comrade in arms and I have often discussed this topic: How vegan can you be? We feel we are totally, completely, utterly vegan. Yet as someone on this list said, we take the occasional aspirin or vitamin, drive on cars with tires and I'm sure intentionally use other products that have animal ingredients or are tested on animals (cosmetics are the exception -- one area in which it's relatively easy to choose animal-free/not animal-tested products). What can you do, go around worrying about this all the time? I am vegan to the full extent of my capabilities. I think I would use this line of reasoning if I had to decide whether to vaccinate. 

Shabbat shalom all,

Pauline

Pauline Dubkin Yearwood
Managing Editor
Chicago Jewish News
847-966-0606 ext. 13

[adamfrank38 .]

Regarding tefillin:  http://adamfrank.typepad.com/adam_frank/2009/11/nonleather-tefillin.html

Rabbi Adam Frank
Congregation Moreshet Yisrael
Jerusalem, Israel
02-625-3539
www.moreshetyisrael.com
www.adamfrank.typepad.com

[Rabbi Jonathan Klein, Faith Action For Animals]

I would only add that not all vaccinations are the same or as critical; just as Adam wisely distinguishes between animal experimentations, sort of a Maimonidean notion of the middle pathway, so, too, I would distinguish between various vaccinations.  Some vaccinations ate less for the individual and more to prevent the types of pandemics striking Liberia. That needs some consideration as well.  Overall, however, I have little more to add. Shabbat shalom!

Rabbi Jonathan Klein
Faith Action For Animals

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ShamayimVAretz/CAP7XpmMPTH-R9HTHj9203krr7Y_y9VnxEfxf5%2ByO-yWk1F9saQ%40mail.gmail.com.