On the verge of cancelling the Scala Summit

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Marshall Pierce

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Jul 6, 2015, 1:17:25 PM7/6/15

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The Scala nature wasn't very compelling to me since I'm not cool enough for Scala, though I've a tab open intending to click through the reg flow at some point. After all, "adaptware in the information continuum" worked out pretty well. :) I can probably convince one of my compadres to come as well, assuming it's still happening once this discussion concludes.

WTF already kind of is burning man: a trade based economy, where the good traded is knowledge, and people making things for the fun of sharing... I wouldn't trade the surroundings for the playa either.

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Seth Tisue

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Jul 6, 2015, 1:37:24 PM7/6/15

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fwiw, I added the summit to http://www.scala-lang.org/events/ myself
last week, and just now I made @scala_lang retweet Typesafe's tweet
about the summit
(https://twitter.com/typesafe/status/6133605007479357440).

(and I wish I could say I was going, but I can't.)

Seth

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 6, 2015, 1:41:02 PM7/6/15

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I have liked the idea of a workshop for a long time. I just spent about 2.5 months in a non-optimal situation but I was extremely productive and have been trying to figure out why. I was sharing a workspace with my brother and we didn't actually talk that much but it might simply have been being in a space with someone else working. Or it could have been any number of other things -- I've been in that space before and haven't been that productive.

Nonetheless, I do find myself a lot more productive when there are other folks around working on projects, so the workshop/retreat is appealing to me.

Or did you actually mean a real writing workshop where we work on your structure, prose, etc?

-- Bruce Eckel

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Daniel Gackle <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:

What about something like a writers' workshop where people bring what they're working on?

Dan

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Bruce Eckel

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Jul 6, 2015, 1:54:57 PM7/6/15

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On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Marshall Pierce <mars...@mpierce.org> wrote:

I'm not cool enough for Scala

Yeah, that damage might be irreparable, and I don't know that I can singlehandedly turn the tide. I don't feel cool enough for Scala, either. I'm not joking about that. Scala in particular, and other things like Rails, have really helped me focus on the ideas and the importance of culture and community and the belief systems underlying these. And how very difficult it is to change culture and community once it's been established (although it does seem possible to destroy positive culture and community and leave smoking ruins in its place).

You'll note that I snuck "Summer Tech Forum" into the new graphic at www.ScalaSummit.com (we also tried to androgenize the hiker a bit). My intent was to give the Scala Summit one more shot and see if it developed its own momentum, and if not just switch to Summer Tech Forum to complement the Winter Tech Forum.

Bill Venners

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Jul 6, 2015, 2:07:01 PM7/6/15

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Nice art.

I like to work on ScalaTest and now Scalactic too when I'm at the summit. There's usually a small group of fans who like ScalaTest and want to help for that week, maybe 4 or 5 people. I wonder if it might work to actually run workshops around open source projects and get their "leaders" come show up. Then make people pick one project they plan to help with. Different people would be interested in different things, but if you could get different projects there, then that could gather around the same number of folks but it would be a bit more focused. I see it as like a "sprint" or something, a few days where we focus on a few things open source, and also take hikes and have great conversations.

Bill

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Jeremy Meyer <jeremya...@gmail.com> wrote:

idea.

But what would we burn?

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Bruce Eckel

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Jul 6, 2015, 4:47:33 PM7/6/15

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I really like that idea. It has the additional benefit of, for a small enough group, something that could be held in my living room. If there were more people AND one or more group houses, those would provide additional workspaces and dynamic expansion of the event. Thus, no need to rent the parish hall or worry about how few or how many people could attend.

I've actually been wondering if some sort of retreat would be interesting to people, and the fact that you spontaneously suggested it feels very promising.

-- Bruce Eckel

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Daniel Gackle <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:

No, you got it: I mean a workshop/retreat for programmers. We'd all
bring a program we want to work on, and work on it. No other agenda,
just working around each other on what we like.

Eric and I did something like you described with your brother, and it
was wonderful. The word that comes to mind is invigorating.

I am weary of talk about software development at any level of
generality (except on a hike or at the pub), but the work itself still
excites me. What I miss from conferences is not the formal content,
but the hanging out with peers, seeing old friends, making new ones,
and all the learning that happens spontaneously. Those things I miss
badly. So I'd like an event that gives me those and otherwise cuts
to the chase, which is the work itself.

Dan

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 6, 2015, 4:56:45 PM7/6/15

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Another benefit -- I don't see anything about retreats that would keep them from being held a lot more frequently. One of the problems I have with the conferences is they don't happen often enough, and although I get a boost, a lot of the energy leaves when everyone does. I've been trying to figure out ways to have more frequent events for the purely selfish reason that they energize me.

-- Bruce Eckel

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Matthew Brandt <ma...@thebrandts.org> wrote:

I'm drawn to this idea as well.

~ Matt

> a workshop/retreat for programmers. We'd all
> bring a program we want to work on, and work on it. No other agenda,
> just working around each other on what we like.

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Bruce Eckel

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Jul 7, 2015, 1:50:26 PM7/7/15

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Dave, thanks very much for bringing that up, because it's another issue that should be transparent.

What part of the retreat is too expensive? (I would not envision a fee anywhere like a conference, FYI). I was imagining some kind of flexible system (with a minimum; we had bad experiences in the past with "free" -- no filter). If I don't rent the parish hall the costs are low (insurance and assorted expenses).

There are ways to get here and stay here that are not too expensive, although they don't pop up first when you search.

-- Bruce Eckel

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Dave Quick <dave...@thoughtfularts.com> wrote:

I would sign up for that, only problem is that I can’t afford it right now. Is there any way to call in (google groups, or something similar)?

Dave

From: enterprise-arch...@googlegroups.com [mailto:enterprise-arch...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gackle
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:06 PM
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Subject: Re: [enterprise-summit] On the verge of cancelling the Scala Summit

No, you got it: I mean a workshop/retreat for programmers. We'd all
bring a program we want to work on, and work on it. No other agenda,
just working around each other on what we like.

Eric and I did something like you described with your brother, and it
was wonderful. The word that comes to mind is invigorating.

I am weary of talk about software development at any level of
generality (except on a hike or at the pub), but the work itself still
excites me. What I miss from conferences is not the formal content,
but the hanging out with peers, seeing old friends, making new ones,
and all the learning that happens spontaneously. Those things I miss
badly. So I'd like an event that gives me those and otherwise cuts
to the chase, which is the work itself.

Dan

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 8, 2015, 1:11:21 PM7/8/15

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That is definitely motivating.

Although the bandwidth to Crested Butte (and to my house) has increased significantly, the up-bandwidth is still only a portion of the down-bandwidth (and we'd be using it a fair amount during the retreat). So I'm wondering if we couldn't use some kind of camera similar to what they do here. Notice that it is only refreshed every 3 seconds, and perhaps we could even use black and white. If we placed a single wide-ish angle camera in my living room, along with an audio feed, it might capture just enough without too big of a bandwidth impact.

Has anyone had experience with this, enough to know what equipment to get?

-- Bruce Eckel

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Dave Quick <dave...@thoughtfularts.com> wrote:

I’ll tell you about my situation. Just over five years ago I had brain aneurysm (AVM) that affected various parts of my body and brain. It affected my right side. I can walk, with four-prong cane very slowly. I can talk, but I suffer from aphasia and apraxia of speech, stuttering. My right arm is pretty much useless and I’ve had to learn how to type with one hand. E-mail is my preferred mode of communication. I can’t drive anymore due to the drugs they give me to control my seizures and my wife must accompany me wherever I go outside the home. I live on a fixed income. I not complaining, after all, I could have been dead, or things could have been much worse. J

Initially, I thought that I forgot how to program, but I relearned (most of) it. Thank goodness for brain plasticity.

So, it’s not expensive for most people, but it is expensive for me (and disabled people like me). All I’m asking for is a way to participate remotely, whatever that is.

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 8, 2015, 1:17:47 PM7/8/15

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Also, perhaps we could corral together tools that would allow everyone to upload to a group photostream, and things like that.

I've always been a bit sensitive to the frivolous nature of social networking, but knowing that Dave wants to be here and can't changes my perspective. It would be great to figure out an optimal set of tools and services that create a reasonable remote experience.

-- Bruce Eckel

Clark Sann

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Jul 8, 2015, 1:37:49 PM7/8/15

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Bruce,

What ways are there to stay in CB that are not too expensive? I am a very beginner scala programmer. I’m about half way through Scala for the Impatient. I really like scala. I’d like to attend the summit, but I’m retired and don’t have big wads of cash hanging out of my jeans! HA.

But if you have the summit, it would be great to meet other scala aficionados, even though all the rest of you are probably way past my level of experience.

Clark Sann

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 8, 2015, 2:13:15 PM7/8/15

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The least expensive ways are the Hostel (which is the nicest hostel I've seen) or camping (requires a car and probably works best if you're driving here). But if group houses are formed, getting in on one of those can be reasonable. The other possibility is staying up on the ski mountain, which is relatively empty during that time of year and so they don't charge that much; you can rent a nice condo -- again, prices go down if you share, and the condos have multiple sleeping spaces.

The intent of the Summit was *not* to be only for experts, and we have had a number of folks come in the past who were just coming up the learning curve and seemed to get a lot of value from it despite that. But I think, in my attempt to make it interesting, I might have made it a bit intimidating for new learners.

That said, right now I'm quite entranced with the "developer retreat" concept (and there's still only the one registrant for the Scala Summit). A number of others have expressed enthusiasm as well, so it seems to "want to happen." And for that, I'm imagining a "pay what you can" system (with a reasonable minimum, as a filter) which might fit more with your needs. Also, it's possible to get here more cheaply than flying into Gunnison -- it's not terribly convenient, but it's possible (Southwest Airlines into Denver, Greyhound to Gunnison, various options from there). Or you might be able to carpool with a group that is renting a car from Denver.

One of the many great things about a developer retreat is that if we hold it in my living room, two people can show up and it can still be a great time, so I don't have to worry about minimum sizes. And if it overflows my living room (or if we want a change of scene), there are coffee places in town where we can set up additional groups.

This completely opens up the dates, because I don't have to worry about when the Parish Hall is available, and worry about long lead times for scheduling. It becomes "when does it work for a few people?"

The general flexibility of the concept not only makes the event even more relaxed than the conferences, it also opens up a lot of other possibilities, which is why I'm finding it exciting.

-- Bruce Eckel

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Bruce Eckel

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Jul 8, 2015, 4:34:13 PM7/8/15

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I'd like to start capturing ideas in a central place. Have there been any new developments in electronic group idea capture?

-- Bruce Eckel

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Nitin Borwankar <nborw...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a Go Pro that I'd be happy to loan for the event.
It has a body harness also, if someone wants to wear it during walks.
Nitin

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:46 PM Dave Quick <dave...@thoughtfularts.com> wrote:
Making it a virtual event would cancel out most the benefits of the shared experience and tax the network.

I’d prefer some sort of metered bandwidth and designated access times. For example, you could record audio or video of the various discussions that occur on hikes and share them with me (or anyone in my situation) later. I’d take raw files and edit them. I would be willing to spilt the cost of a GoPro Hero Action Camera with Bruce and he could have it when we are done.

Dave

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Subject: Re: [enterprise-summit] On the verge of cancelling the Scala Summit

Maybe it could be a virtual event?

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 8, 2015, 4:54:45 PM7/8/15

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When I took the Holacracy training, this kind of thing was described as a "future fear." No evidence one way or another, just imagining things that could go wrong. Which discourages experimentation, thus future fears are discarded and considered "no reason not to try it."

-- Bruce Eckel

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Dave Quick <dave...@thoughtfularts.com> wrote:

How much of a pain would it to wear on hikes.

Dave

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Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 1:32 PM

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Subject: Re: [enterprise-summit] On the verge of cancelling the Scala Summit

I have a Go Pro that I'd be happy to loan for the event.

It has a body harness also, if someone wants to wear it during walks.
Nitin

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:46 PM Dave Quick <dave...@thoughtfularts.com> wrote:

Making it a virtual event would cancel out most the benefits of the shared experience and tax the network.

I’d prefer some sort of metered bandwidth and designated access times. For example, you could record audio or video of the various discussions that occur on hikes and share them with me (or anyone in my situation) later. I’d take raw files and edit them. I would be willing to spilt the cost of a GoPro Hero Action Camera with Bruce and he could have it when we are done.

Dave

From: enterprise-arch...@googlegroups.com [mailto:enterprise-arch...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Evans

Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 11:41 AM
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Subject: Re: [enterprise-summit] On the verge of cancelling the Scala Summit

Maybe it could be a virtual event?

On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Bruce Eckel <bruce...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jonathan Schwietert

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Jul 8, 2015, 8:25:36 PM7/8/15

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For the record, myself and 3-5 coworkers have been hoping to attend this years summit. It would be great to have a developer retreat...either way it works out my guys are interested!

James Pyrich

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Jul 12, 2015, 7:25:22 PM7/12/15

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Thanks for creating this thread, Bruce. I had not yet posted in the group but had been considering attending the summit. I (and my coworkers) have been developing in Scala for almost a year now and, for me, I just hadn't committed one way or the other. Also, I would need to discuss the training budget aspect with my manager, but that would probably just be a formality.

I expect that I would not be the only one from my company who would like to attend, so I could ask our group who would commit (we have 4 active Scala developers with varying degrees of experience and logistical capacity) and report back.

I also find that I like the idea of a retreat/workshop format. We recently had a 3-day hackathon for our engineering department, and while my team didn't deliver, it was a good opportunity to greenfield some ideas. Popping in to possibly contribute to ScalaTest would be a different animal, but still, working with others on a project is something that I find motivating as well.

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 12, 2015, 8:30:43 PM7/12/15

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I'm hoping to get a preliminary description of the retreat up in the next couple of days, at which point we can take suggestions and decide how to start, whether to turn the summit into a retreat, etc. The retreat might meet your needs better, especially if budget is an issue.

-- Bruce Eckel

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Jeremiah Adams

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Jul 13, 2015, 9:59:54 AM7/13/15

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Are we still 'on'? If so, are you still looking at 9/14-9/18? I'll need to change my lodging if the date it is moved. The sooner I do that, the better.

I'm game for a retreat or whatever. My primary motivation for attending has less to do with scala and more to do with networking and learning how others have solved problems similar to those I encounter. A retreat will probably work as well as open spaces for my purposes.

I will be driving to Crested Butte from the Denver Metro Area (Castle Rock). I am loosely planning on coming up a couple of days early and do some camping around Lost Lake or Irwin. If anyone is into that, we might be able to negotiate some transport from Denver.

- jeremiah

Bruce Eckel

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Jul 13, 2015, 3:27:00 PM7/13/15

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Right now there are two registrants for the Scala Summit, and no one on the Scala Summit list has responded that they are coming, so it seems like that week is more likely to be a retreat (assuming the two signups are still on board when it changes) rather than the Scala Summit.

I've just finished the preliminary description of the developer's retreat and will post that separately.

-- Bruce Eckel