Re: DD Kosambi's False History Exposed : Communal Construction of the Past & Historicity
10 views
Skip to first unread message
Sadanand Patwardhan
Feb 21, 2017, 12:30:29 AM2/21/17
to Lalit Mishra, ram puniyani, Indian, Azad Kaushik, Anubhuti Vishnoi, Kumar Arun, Lalit Mishra, Shobhan Ganji USA, Satchid Anandan, Vikas Pathak
Lalitaa, Let us make it as simple, bite-sized as possible.
Let us condemn all Leftists & their Historians (in fact, anybody whose views you find unpalatable) in most unequivocal terms. So, let this “emotion” exercise you no more.
Where Habib is in agreement with Lalitaa.
(1) Khilji is not a Fictional Character, but a Historical Figure.
(2) Ratan Sing is not a Fictional Character, but a Historical Figure.
(3) Khilji did indeed attack Chittorgarh.
What Evidence does Lalitaa site?
(1) A stone Inscription at Chittorgarh that mentions Ratan Singh & Khilji’s Attack.
The story so far is consistent & without inherent contradictions.
Where Lalitaa disagrees with Habib.
(1) Habib says Rani Padmini is a Fictional Character.
Habib has cited his evidence in support of his claim.
(2) Lalitaa presumably wants to claim that Padmini is a historical figure.
Has Lalitaa cited any evidence to contradict the claim that Padmini is Fictional?
No, he merely cites 3 newspaper articles from HT, DC & AJ.
Unfortunately for Lalitaa, DC & AJ have merely reiterated the reported statement of Habib that Padmini is a fictional character; not contradicted it.
HT does a little better by citing some other “Historians” who hold an opposite view based on the strong sway the “legend” holds on Rajput Psyche & the monuments that are putatively associated with her. That kind of reasoning is ahistorical.
On a visit to town Luang Prabang in Laos, I climbed on to a tall but small mountain (Mount Phusi) right in the middle of the town that had panoramic views of the quaint town & Mekong river encircling it. On the way up, there was a board that said Lord Hanuman uprooted the mountain from Sri Lanka & replanted it here. This story appears fishily similar to the Dronigiri mountain, which Hanuman reputedly took from the Himalayas to Sri Lanka. Based on these are we to take that these ACTS of Hanuman are Historical facts? Because mountain exists & the legend is fervently believed by the people!!
Jai Shri Krishna (सत्यमेव जयते),
sadanand
=================
On 20-Feb-2017, at 19:01, Lalit Mishra <mishra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sadananda,
Your pain is understandable due to your affiliation to leftist camp like this man Ram Puniyani since you guys promoted comunial writings of Irfan Habib and a superficial DD Kosambi, worst story tellers are historians. Particularly DD Kosambi who enjoyed undue favor from Nurul Hasan and a backchannel corrupt jack made him a historian.
I am surprised at your level of common sense, if you are living in a Jungle with naxalites that you don't know of Irfan habib, have you never read his book on history medieval India and kept yourself an ignorant
Go through these links and make yourself educated on bluffs and selective lies of Irfan Habib, He skips Kumbhal Gadh inscription every time -
I am surprised at your level of common sense, if you are living in a Jungle with naxalites that you don't know of Irfan habib, have you never read his book on history medieval India and kept yourself an ignorant
Go through these links and make yourself educated on bluffs and selective lies of Irfan Habib, He skips Kumbhal Gadh inscription every time -
1) Hindustan Times
2) Deccan Chronicle
3) AAJ Tak
No more nonsense but Leftists w'd continue to do ...... it.
Lalit Mishra
On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Sadanand Patwardhan <2sad...@gmail.com> wrote:
@@This is what Irfan Habib said in his talks with ABP, ZEE and Aaj Tak.@@Your record is very poor in reporting the facts accurately.You made your allegation based on the “text of what Habib” wrote. When you were challenged, you couldn’t substantiate your point -"That RATAN SINGH (and his queen Padumavati) WERE MYTHICAL CHARACTER”-.sadanand============================Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:00 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Lalit Mishra"
"That RATAN SINGH and his queen Padumavati were MYTHICAL CHARACTER"
This is what Irfan Habib said in his talks with ABP, ZEE and Aaj Tak.
Pls don't defend him, come forward to condemn such dual face historians.
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 12:21 PM, "Sadanand Patwardhan sadanandpatwardhan@yahoo.com [indianfirst]" <indianfirst-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
@@ that RATAN SINGH and his queen Padumavati were MYTHICAL CHARACTER@@
Show where in the write-up of Habib it is said that Ratan Singh is a mythical character.
s====================
On 19-Feb-2017, at 12:09, Lalit Mishra <lit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
There are many leftist insane around who have mastery in twisting and endorsing communal acts of Irfan Habib like historians who manipulated with facts in all his TV talks, cleverly concealed Kumbhal Garh Inscriptions and repeatedly claimed that Ratan Singh and his queen Padumavati were mythical character and Indian Express and The Hindu like cheap news papers ran to promote his mischief.
Whatever clever Irfan habib may be, he has never been able to give any evidence in capacity of a historian. Days are gone when such manipulators were seen with credibility.
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:50 AM, "Sadanand Patwardhan sadanandpatwardhan@yahoo.com [indianfirst]" <indianfirst-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
@@On 20-Feb-2017, at 12:23, Lalit Mishra <mishra...@gmail.com> wrote:
मार्क्सवादी इतिहासकार दामोदर धर्मानंद कोसंबी पर डा भगवान सिंह जी ने पुस्तक लिखी है ‘कोसंबी: कल्पना से यथार्थ तक’, इसमें डी डी कोसांबी की करतूत को उधेड कर रख दिया गया है“लेकिन कोसंबी तब तक एक इतिहासकार के रूप में मृत या उपेक्षित थे जब तक नूर-उल-हसन शिक्षामंत्री नहीं बने और उसके बाद सभी सरकारी संस्थाओं और विश्वविद्यालयों में कोसंबी को प्राचीन भारत का इतिहास और प्राचीन भारत को कोसंबी बनाने का अभियान-सा आरंभ हो गया।” (पृ॰12)
401 पृष्ठों की इस पुस्तक को आर्यन बुक्स इन्टरनेशनल, पूजा अपार्टमेंट्स, 4 बी, अंसारी रोड, दरियागंज, नई दिल्ली-2 ने छापा है और इसका मूल्य 795 रु॰ है
Lalit MishraOn Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 2:06 AM, Lalit Mishra <lit...@yahoo.com> wrote:Ram Puniiyani and Irfan Habib are two top class nuisance makers in India who don't know about Kumbalgarh Fort's inscription (1458-60 CE) which entails episode of Allauddin Khilaji's attack on Chittor's king Ratan Singh.
It's a shame on Irfan Habib who was once chairman of ICHR, India's custodian of history and turned out to be a communal spoiler of history himself. Irfan Habib must have not forgotten that Kumbhal Garh is a UNESCO's world heritage site and many Indians w'd remember the inscription which was also published in Epigraphica India (21& 24).
Moreover, the Padumavati's story in poetry is written by a muslim poet Malik Muhammad Jayasi not by a Hindu that Irfan habib and Ram puniyani like spoilers come to negate very existence of Ratan Singh and queen Padmavati.
Poetic imagery whatever it could be, doesn't disapprove historicity of Ratan Sen and his queen rather confirms it.On Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:21 PM, "ram puniyani ram.pu...@gmail.com [indianfirst]" <indianfirst-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Communal Construction of the Past: Attack on Unit Filming PadmavatiRam PuniyaniSanjay Leela Bhansali’s (SLB) unit filming the period film, Padmavati was attacked recently (January 2017) near Jaipur in Rajasthan. The pretext was that there is a dream sequence in the film which depicts Alauddin Khilji, the Muslim King and the Rajput Princess Padmavati. The attack was organized by one Karni Sena which claims to be working for preservation of Rajput honor and which felt that the film is an insult on the community honor of Rajputs. Interestingly the film is at the shooting stage and the Karni Sena has no access to the script of the film. The rumor about the dream sequence made them launch the attack against the film unit. It was not surprising that the state sat back, no condemnation of the attack by the state leadership was there. SLB also decided to pack off and not to do the shooting in Rajasthan. He has been threatened by BJP-VHP leaders daring him to shoot the film anywhere in India. The same Karni Sena had earlier vandalized the cinema theaters showing the film Jodha Akbar, depicting another Rajput princess.The Allauddin Khilji-Padmavati story is from the annals of fiction, while some unauthenticated sources claim that since Khilji was for real; the tale about him must also be true. As such the reality is that the popular narrative of Padmavati and her Jauhar (immolation) are based on the work of fiction by a Sufi saint, Malik Mohammad Jayasi, in sixteenth century, two centuries after reign of Khilji. The narration of Padmavat, a classic of sorts, revolves around the love story of Ratan Singh, the king of Chittor and Padmavati, the princess of imaginary Simhala Island. Ratan Singh came to know about the beauty of the princess from her parrot, Hiraman. Guided by Hiraman; Ratan Singh pursues the princess and the lovers unite. As per this fictional tale Ratan Singh is betrayed by some Raghav Pandit, is attacked by the King of Kumbhalner and dies. King of Kumbhalner has also an eye on Padmavati. Meanwhile Khilji, who has seen the beauty of princess and is smitten by that also attacks Ratan Singh’s kingdom, just to find that Padmavati along with other women have committed jauhar, mass self immolation. The Sufi mystic who has written this immortal classic presents the tale as a metaphor for human soul seeking out and futility of power.Over a period of time the narration has just been reduced to Padmavati as a symbol of Rajput honor and Khilji as the Islamic invader; full of lust. The construction of the past by the communities has been greatly influenced by the present political scenario. This narrative revolves around the communal view of history where Kings are presented as the vehicles of their religion. The aspect of power as the central motive of kings is bypassed in this view of history. In contemporary times this is the orientation which forms the core of community memory, which has been constructed over a period of time. The aim of this narration is to present the valor of Rajput kings. As per this they defended valiantly against the Muslim rulers and protected the honor of ‘their women’. In turn women also committed immolation rather than being defiled by the Muslim kings. This narrative is totally in opposition to the reality of the long historical stretch where the Mughal-Rajput interaction was the fulcrum around which political alliances were forged and Rajput daughters married the Muslim-Mughal kings in particular.Few years ago when the film Jodha Akbar was vandalized. This film also has the theme of Muslim King-Hindu princess. Presentation of many an incident of the past has also been heavily colored by the part of fiction as well. As such what was witnessed in the subcontinent was the attempt by Mughal kings to build an Empire, which involved battles and alliances both. Akbar and Rana Pratap had a battle but later Rana Pratap’s son Amar Singh enters into alliance with Akbar’s son Jahangir. Rajput kings also adorned high positions in Mughal administration. Mughal Rajput syncretism in particular was the important factor of medieval period at social and political level.There are two sets of presentations about the Rajput Princesses. The powerful and more gripping one, which captures the mass imagination, is the one which glorifies the self immolation to save the community honor. The second one is that of the inter-marrying of princely families revolving around power. The prevalent patriarchal notions do see ‘giving away daughters’ as a sort of community defeat and so these narrations are being erased from memory and the notions of jauhar are being put forward as the badge of honor. Film Jodha Akbar presented the matter of fact marriage of a Rajput princess with a Mughal king as a political pact between two ruling families. Today the attempt is to wipe away such memories which are uncomfortable in prevalent constructions of community honor. So the discomfort with the presentations in Jodha Akbar was there.With Padmavati, the matters are being taken one step further. The vigilantes of ‘community honor’ have attacked merely on the basis of a rumor. One does not know what the film director has in mind, but the dream sequence of a Muslim man with a Hindu girl is creating the discomfort in the minds of the likes of Karni Sena. Surely such attitudes have gone up during last three decades and seem to be growing unchecked over a period of time. The artistic freedom is being controlled by those belonging to right wing nationalism and their wings are becoming stronger and going unchecked as the Hindutva politics is getting legitimacy and strength. Film makers have felt the wrath of these groups with increasing intensity. The political system which should be committed to the values of freedom of expression is mostly a bystander, underlining the fact that this ideology of Hindutva has no place for diverse presentation of the past, neither for the creative freedom of the artists. The state is failing the ‘democracy test’ time and over again.
__._,_.___
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.
The moderation is lifted and all e-mails are unmoderated. Once again, moderator or Yahoogroups do not own any responsibility for actions of members. However members who indulge in indiscriminate cross posting or use of abusive language or posting materials that hurts sentiments of others are likely to be edged out at an occasion considered fit by moderator.
EMAILS RELATED TO MATTERS OF RELIGION & RELIGIOUS PRACTICES WILL BE GRADUALLY PHASED OUT OF THIS GROUP.MEMBERS ARE REQUESTED TO MAKE A NOTE OF IT. THEY SHOULD NOT FEEL BAD IF THEIR SUCH MAILS ARE NOT CIRCULATED IN FUTURE.
Each breath we take, we use up Oxygen worth One Rupee at present market rates. nature is giving it free, can we express our gratitude through some positive action?
For membership to this group send a mail to [ indianfirst-subscribe@yahoogroups.com ]
When fortune favors the First; why not be an Indian First!
Let us work and make our...
Government- Proactive,
Media- Reactive,
Political Parties- Elective,
Voters- Selective,
Crowds- Preventive,
Religions- Constructive,
Youth- Creative....
And this group more reflective......
Caution: Yahoogroups or moderator do not necessarily agree with the views expressed in the postings.
Moderated by: Navendu Mahodaya
.
__,_._,___
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages