Sails

[Randy]

Hi All,

I know there are a number of 50s out in the world these days. As we
are #3 I always like to give the newer boats a heads up anytime
something breaks that surprises me. It surprised me when our Vectran
laminate jib broke last week.

Our boat is 4.5 years old (a 2006). She was delivered from the factory
in SA to the Bahamas where we purchased her. We took her from FL to
Trinidad and on to Panama, French Polynesia, Vanuatu, Guam and finally
to Palau (with lots of stops in between). The high tech Vectran
laminate Quantum sails that SF has been installing as stock equipment
have held their shape well. They have been through lots of weather and
lived nearly their entire lives in the wet and sunny tropics. They
have always powered the boat nicely, sailed to weather well and are
not too heavy.

Last week on the way to Guam our jib shredded and our main tore in a
30 some knot squall. This resulted in a scramble to get a new jib to
Guam. Both sails "came due", simultaneously which was also a concern.

I contacted a Quantum rep in the US who quoted me $10,000 for a new
jib. I told him I was in a pinch and replacing an existing Quantum jib
which had failed. I finally agreed to pay over $7,000 for the new
jib. I had better offers but Quantum had the sail in stock and we
needed to get our boat out of hurricane alley. I had also contacted
Duncan at Saint Francis who later connected me directly with the SA
Quantum folks. The SA folks sent me a quote for $5,500ish. Discussion
ensued.

The Quantum SA crew was great and got the Jib out to Guam on Delta for
a 4 day delivery after a two day stint to sew on the correct color UV
strip. Duncan was also very helpful. I would recommend going direct to
SA if you need to get a replacement sail in a hurry. The stock sails
are made in SA and no matter where you try to buy one from Quantum it
will come from SA. They also have been making them for a while and you
will be at reduced risk of long lead times and/or getting a sail that
doesn't the rig in some way.

After some looking about I find that few cruising sail manufacturers
use Vectran anymore. Research I have read indicates that Vectran
deteriorates more rapidly in the face of UV than any other sail
fabric. I can only report my experience which is total failure after 4
years of cruising in the tropics (no racing). While 4 years of live
aboard cruising is a stretch, I'd like my next set to last longer. I
mean heck, we only got half way around. I'd especially like my next
sails to creep a bit and lose shape in their old age rather than sail
nice and then explode all of the sudden.

My initial research shows the tried and true Dacron to be a non
starter on a 50' cat, weight would be a big problem not to mention the
low modulus (high stretch), which conventional wisdom suggests would
make performance fairly poor on a boat that doesn't heal. Carbon and
PBO don't make sense to me financially (though a carbon manufactured
with good flex and durability seems like the ultimate). I am starting
to think that for long term cruising a Spectra/Dynema weave might be
best. They price right around the Vectran, are more UV resistant than
Dacron (triple that of Vectran) and almost impervious to flex loss
(from folding and flogging), with very high tenacity (breaking
strength) and very high modulus. They creep, but I'd rather have a
poor performing upwind sail than no sail and you can always recut.

Would be interested to hear anyone else's thought on sails.

Best,
Randy

[doug vibbert]

A friend with a catamaran and marine architect for the America's cup yacht recommended Hydranet triradial, which is the Spectra type that you are referring to.    I'd be curious if they are made in South Africa as well and if Quantum SA would be the best source.   It's reputation is "the last sail you'll ever have to buy".   Not sure if that's quite true, but with 3 times the UV resistance of Vectran, it could be a 10 year cruising sail, which certainly beats everything else.  

---

From: Randy <randy.a...@gmail.com>
To: Saint Francis Owners Group <saintf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 8:20:56 AM
Subject: [Saint Francis OG] Sails

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[Steve Carroll]

Hi, My wife Bonnie and I are chartering our SF 50 , Paradigm Shift, in the Virgin Islands this winter. We are hull #15 launched in Jan. 2011 and still have the original Quantum sails. We are looking to replace the main and the jib this summer and have also been in touch with Ullman in SA. They are advising we go with

“Radial Hydranet” material, what are your thoughts, thanks

Steve & Bonnie Carroll

SV Paradigm Shift

St Thomas VI

[Paul Allinson]

Hi Steve,
We followed "Banana's" advice who, after circumnavigating, stopped off for a pit-stop at the factory last year and purchased Radial Hydranet from Ullman's in Cape Town, for "Grace" #5021 as did "Sea Jay" #5022.
We don't have any experience with them yet as the boats don't launch until April.
Craig Middleton at Ullman was outstanding to work with and gave us a tour of their impressive facility.
If you want to contact him his. Email is. :
c.mid...@ullmansailsrsa.com
Regards
Paul

[Steve Carroll]

Paul, Thanks for that I'll reach out to him later today, I have his cell number...cheers

Steve

Paul

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[Robert-Louis Kuhn]

(This is a copy of my email sent on the 10th with my cellphone, I am not sure that it reached you)

Hi Steve,

We replaced the sails of our St Francis50 Banana end of March last year. We went for Hydranet instead of the usal menbrane wit Quantum.

For us Hydranet was the best option, but it is about 50% more expensive, the fabric comes from Germany (Dimensil Poliant). Hydranet will keep its shape and can be repair in case of accident.

During our first circumnavigation with the membrane we had no problem during the first 40,000 miles and 5 years, after that we started to have a beginning of delamination on the main and you cannot fix it except to use glue between the two layer of fabric. But they keep their shape until the end. 

To make the story short All the boat that we met using Hydranet enjoyed the quality of that product.

We choose a very heavy Hydranet for our boat with the idea of an other circumnavigation but the other boat had in general a lighter Hydranet, this is something you will have to choose also.

We just sold Banana this January and we only enjoy our new sails during the crossing from South Africa to Florida. We were in St Francis when we changed all the sails and Quantum came for adjustment when we stop in Cape Town. They made the main sail as big as possible and we really feel the difference also in speed during the 8000 miles we have done with them.

We are now on shore for the next three years, but the next boat will definitively have Hydranet sails (but probably lighter).

Robert-Louis

(On shore)

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[Steve Carroll]

Robert-Louis, Thank you so much for the insight , very helpful....hopefully we wlil cross paths at some point, Annapolis Boat Show next fall possibly? 

Kind Regards,

Steven & Bonnie Carroll

 S/V Paradigm Shift

8168 Crown Bay Marina STE 505-304

St. Thomas VI 00802-5819

443-262 1391 USVI cell

char...@sailparadigmshift.com

http://sailparadigmshift.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZ2Woo_MjY