Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[Jim Johns]

Good evening, friends.

I finally found a little time to work on my Tower Kaos 60 ARF.  The wings are complete and the fuse is ready for servo and pushrod installation. It has an OS FS-91 Surpass II Pumper up front and I replaced the stock fuel tank with a Hayes 12 oz Slimline moved as far back as the bulkhead in the canopy will allow. I don't need 14.2 oz of fuel as the Advanced pattern usually consumes only about 9 oz, and I'd much rather have it farther aft for CG considerations. I'm not too happy with the canopy latch, so that will need to be looked at closely. I shortened the front hatch pins slightly and will cover the holes through the firewall with some scrap Ultracote before I seal up all the exposed wood with brushed on Minwax Polyurethane. I'm using DS821 digital servos with my JR XG8 radio.It should be ready to fly by the weekend, but the weather doesn't look too promising. 

BTW - I started after lunch yesterday!

Jim

[Duane Wilson]

Jim;

 

How much of a departure is the Kaos ARF from the original Kaos?  Is it close like the Dirty Birdy, or more like the Intruder?

 

Duane

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[Jim Johns]

Duane,

There are lots of difference. It sort of a modified hybrid of the original Kaos and Super Kaos. Here are a few differences to start. 

- The ARF fuselage is taller, wider and longer = more side area for better knife edge. 

- 2-piece mid-wing vs 1-piece bottom wing on original. 

- tail group from original. 

- wing area 748 vs 644 sq in. on original

- length 57.5" vs 54.25"  on original

- wingspan 62" vs 58.5"  on original

- cowl shape is totally different than Super Kaos. Original Kaos did not fair into a spinner. 

I could go on but ...

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[Duane Wilson]

Sounds great--nice to know how true to the original it turned out to be....so much for the new building rules. :)

 

Duane

--

[Jim Johns]

If you want to build "the real thing", full size PDF plans for many of Joe Bridi's designs including both the original Kaos and Super Kaos are available for download here (http://www.outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?keyword=Bridi&Submit=Go). Outerzone also has plans for other SPA legal aircraft. Short kits are available from Eureka (http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/plan_kits/kaos.htm) and Lazer Works (http://lazer-works.com/rcm.html).

Bottom line for me - the Tower Kaos 60 ARF is basically a sort of stand-way-off scale hybrid version of the Kaos and Super Kaos. I knew that when I saw the first ads as I've been a Kaos fan for 40+ years. It goes together FAST! I currently have only about 9 hours in mine and it's ready for rudder and elevator servo and pushrod installation, then final fuel proofing.  Is it 100% true to the original - absolutely not. Will it be a good SPA competition aircraft? Only time will tell, but if it flies well - and true - it should be. The ancient Tower Kaos 40 ARF I have flies great. Is it a good value for $180? To use a phrase from Laugh In, you bet your bippy it is!

Jim

Sent from my iPad via gmail

[Duane Wilson]

I understand all the ins and outs of this, since I had a lot to do with bringing back the Intruder ARF.  It's just a shame that we have one standard for ARFs, (because they are so beneficial for the organization so if they call it a Kaos, we look the other way), and another standard for built-up planes.  Oh well, those are the rules--the "greater good" is being served by the ARF.

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Johns
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:44 PM
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

 

If you want to build "the real thing", full size PDF plans for many of Joe Bridi's designs including both the original Kaos and Super Kaos are available for download here (http://www.outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?keyword=Bridi&Submit=Go). Outerzone also has plans for other SPA legal aircraft. Short kits are available from Eureka (http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/plan_kits/kaos.htm) and Lazer Works (http://lazer-works.com/rcm.html).

--

[Beppe]

Amen!

Beppe

 

---

[Duane Wilson]

Related to this...I've decided to look into the new "Marabu", German ARF offered by Sky Aviation that Jeff first brought to our attention a few months back. I'm going to build one, report on it, and test it out, (feel free to test-fly mine yourselves if you're interested)  We'll see how it goes. 

 

The Marabu won both the 1969 and 1971 Internationals, and should be a fine plane for SPA....and, I believe, (I hope), it is accurate to the original.  I'm researching the plane and the ARF now, and will report to the DL--it should be "fun".

 

Duane

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Duane Wilson

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:58 PM
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com

[chue...@comcast.net]

Duane & Jim, and others interested,

I have not done the measurement comparison as Jim did.  The only thing I would take issue with Jim on is his assessment that it is a mid-wing.  Yes, it is 2-piece, but when the wings are on the tube, there is barely 1/4-inch of fuse below the bottom of the wing.  Folks said the same thing about Dennis Hunt's plug-in wing Daddy Rabbit and Panzer.  Correct, the bottom of the fuselage is not the bottom of the wing on any plug-in wing, but that does not ipso facto make them mid-wing designs.  On the Kaos ARF, it looks as if there is a sheet of balsa, maybe 1/8 to 3/32 inch below the bottom of the airfoil.

BTW, thanks for the measurements comparison, Jim.  It is interesting...

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Duane,

There are lots of difference. It sort of a modified hybrid of the original Kaos and Super Kaos. Here are a few differences to start. 

- The ARF fuselage is taller, wider and longer = more side area for better knife edge. 

- 2-piece mid-wing vs 1-piece bottom wing on original. 

- tail group from original. 

- wing area 748 vs 644 sq in. on original

- length 57.5" vs 54.25"  on original

- wingspan 62" vs 58.5"  on original

- cowl shape is totally different than Super Kaos. Original Kaos did not fair into a spinner. 

I could go on but ...

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[chue...@comcast.net]

Well, now that that can is open again, WE do not control the ARF manufacturers, and ARFs are better for some of us that no planes.  This Kaos is closer to the original than a few of the scratch-built planes have been over the years.

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Sounds great--nice to know how true to the original it turned out to be....so much for the new building rules. :)

[chue...@comcast.net]

OK, I hereby propose to the BoD that we now ban ALL ARFs, back to the original Intruder-I.  *I* vote no!   lol

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

I understand all the ins and outs of this, since I had a lot to do with bringing back the Intruder ARF.  It's just a shame that we have one standard for ARFs, (because they are so beneficial for the organization so if they call it a Kaos, we look the other way), and another standard for built-up planes.  Oh well, those are the rules--the "greater good" is being served by the ARF.

[Ddphill9]

With that being said  "At this point in time, what difference does it make " 

ddph...@aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: chuenkan <chue...@comcast.net>
To: Discussion, SPA <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 7:42 am
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[chue...@comcast.net]

Of course, "NONE", ddphill9.

We could just ban all ARFs and make every CD check each plane against certified original plans (a la NASCAR) and disqualify those that deviate by more than 1/32 of an inch from the original, at every contest.

And if anyone takes this seriously, they belong in an institution -- up to the BoD what kind...

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

[Ddphill9]

If you used the NASCAR logic, I doubt you could find an airplane that did not deviate from the plans. So why bring this stuff up and start a new debate over what's legal and what's not !!   The airplane was approved by Mickey  !!  Nuff said .. 

Dave..
ddph...@aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: chuenkan <chue...@comcast.net>
To: Discussion, SPA <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 9:22 am
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[Ddphill9]

If you used the NASCAR logic, I doubt you could find an airplane that did not deviate from the plans. So why bring this stuff up and start a new debate over what's legal and what's not !!   The airplane was approved by Mickey  !!  Nuff said .. 

Dave..
ddph...@aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: chuenkan <chue...@comcast.net>
To: Discussion, SPA <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 9:22 am
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[Jim Johns]

I agree 100%, Dave. Let sleeping dogs lie. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[Vic Koenig]

  I may have tunnel vision because I only fly Dirty Birdies, but the truth of the matter still, and always will be it's the thumbs that make a plane fly and win contests. On a personal note, I've given control of one of my planes to Jerry Black when I was having trouble doing a particular manuver, in his hands it did the same manuver flawlessly. Go figure.  Vic K

[chue...@comcast.net]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz - that email was totally in jest.  It would impossible to enforce, and no one would want to do it.  Does every jocular email need to be flagged all over?

I was responding to the discussion that others were having aobut how closely the Kaos ARF matched the original.  *I* didn't start that discussion...

The BoD has already settled the ARF questions!  'Nuff said.

---

[larrysa...@elmore.rr.com]

---- 'Ddphill9' via The Senior Pattern Association <SPAme...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> If you used the NASCAR logic, I doubt you could find an airplane that did not deviate from the plans. So why bring this stuff up and start a new debate over what's legal and what's not !! The airplane was approved by Mickey !! Nuff said ..

> Agree 100 0/0 , my Dad always used to tell me If it ant broke don't fix it. I have gotten one , and Jamie and I have flown it already 4 or 5 times. It's a good flying plane and a good looking one as well. I have a 91 Magum 4 stroke on it and a 13x8 apc. It's plenty get up and go,I can not see where anyone would want thing else. L Hill L368

>
> Dave..
> ddph...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chuenkan <chue...@comcast.net>
> To: Discussion, SPA <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 9:22 am
> Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF
>
>
>
> Of course, "NONE", ddphill9.
>
>
>
> We could just ban all ARFs and make every CD check each plane against certified original plans (a la NASCAR) and disqualify those that deviate by more than 1/32 of an inch from the original, at every contest.
>
>
>
> And if anyone takes this seriously, they belong in an institution -- up to the BoD what kind...
>
>
>
> Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
> AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
> SPA L-18, Board Member
> (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Fred Robertson]

Larry, Jamie said you have had problems with the hatch release. Jim also mentioned some concerns in his original post. Would you comment on it more and how you fixed it. I haven't started assembling mine yet, 

Fred

[larrysa...@elmore.rr.com]

---- 'Fred Robertson' via The Senior Pattern Association <SPAme...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Larry, Jamie said you have had problems with the hatch release. Jim also
> mentioned some concerns in his original post. Would you comment on it more
> and how you fixed it. I haven't started assembling mine yet,
>
> Fred

> Most of the latches are a 2/56 threaded wire with a nut and spring,this one is pressed (no threadas to give any grip )into the latch rrelease. Mine sliped and had a time getting the canopy off. So I took a 2/56 wire and a small wheel collar with a spring from a ball point pin and a 4/40 screw in the collar to use as the slide to release the latch. Mine was not easy because it sliped . This needs to be done almost out of the box.

> On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-6,
> larrysa...@elmore.rr.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---- 'Ddphill9' via The Senior Pattern Association <

> > SPAme...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> wrote:
> > > If you used the NASCAR logic, I doubt you could find an airplane that
> > did not deviate from the plans. So why bring this stuff up and start a new
> > debate over what's legal and what's not !! The airplane was approved by
> > Mickey !! Nuff said ..
> > > Agree 100 0/0 , my Dad always used to tell me If it ant broke don't fix
> > it. I have gotten one , and Jamie and I have flown it already 4 or 5
> > times. It's a good flying plane and a good looking one as well. I have a
> > 91 Magum 4 stroke on it and a 13x8 apc. It's plenty get up and go,I can not
> > see where anyone would want thing else. L Hill L368
> > >
> > > Dave..

> > > ddph...@aol.com <javascript:>

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: chuenkan <chue...@comcast.net <javascript:>>
> > > To: Discussion, SPA <SPAme...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>
> > > Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 9:22 am
> > > Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Of course, "NONE", ddphill9.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We could just ban all ARFs and make every CD check each plane against
> > certified original plans (a la NASCAR) and disqualify those that deviate by
> > more than 1/32 of an inch from the original, at every contest.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And if anyone takes this seriously, they belong in an institution -- up
> > to the BoD what kind...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
> > > AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
> > > SPA L-18, Board Member
> > > (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With that being said "At this point in time, what difference does it
> > make "
> > >
> > >
> > >

> > > ddph...@aol.com <javascript:>

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "The Senior Pattern Association" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> > an email to SPAmembers+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

> > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "The Senior Pattern Association" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> > an email to SPAmembers+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

[Jim Johns]

Fred,

I had some time today to think about the canopy latch problem, and here's how I fixed mine.

1. I cut a slot in the plywood under the canopy.
2. I glued a couple of craft sticks from Wally World together, then glued then to the plywood inside the fuse.
   
3. I marked the approximate center of the sticks on the outside of the canopy, put the canopy tightly in place, then drilled through the canopy and the craft sticks.
4. I enlarged the canopy hole to just fit a 4-40 screw and the stick hole to fit a 4-40 blind nut. 
5. After a couple dry fittings to get everything aligned properly, I CA'd the blind nut firmly into place.

I'll repeat on the other side then remove the stock latch completely for safety.

Jim

   

[Giuseppe Fascione]

Well done, Jim!!!

Beppe

--

[chue...@comcast.net]

Good solution, Jim.  Not sure what I'm going to do, yet.  Still pondering it, as I get other things done.  I'll keep this solution in mind, though.

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

Fred,

I had some time today to think about the canopy latch problem, and here's how I fixed mine.

1. I cut a slot in the plywood under the canopy.
2. I glued a couple of craft sticks from Wally World together, then glued then to the plywood inside the fuse.
   
3. I marked the approximate center of the sticks on the outside of the canopy, put the canopy tightly in place, then drilled through the canopy and the craft sticks.
4. I enlarged the canopy hole to just fit a 4-40 screw and the stick hole to fit a 4-40 blind nut. 
5. After a couple dry fittings to get everything aligned properly, I CA'd the blind nut firmly into place.

I'll repeat on the other side then remove the stock latch completely for safety.

Jim

   

[Patternpilot One]

Guys why not use some of the high pull micro earth magnets... alot of the f3a planes and others use them.. works great and simple.

Sa.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: chue...@comcast.net
Date: 11/11/2015 5:25 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Discussion, SPA" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[Jim Johns]

Because not all of us have those in their inventory. 

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[Patternpilot One]

Well i have them, anyone interested contact me direct and I can give the specs, size and pull when I get back home in a few hours.

[Giuseppe Fascione]

Well, I lost a very beautiful canopy in a plane with a reciprocating engine... I trust rare earth magnets in electric planes only...

The solution Jim proposes is used in the Groovy 50 I have; only the "sticks" are in the canopy, but same concept... and it works nicely!

Beppe

[Patternpilot One]

We have not had any issues, but we also use way more pull than needed.

[Steve Ehlers]

Hey , I agree with Beppe on the use of magnets. I see them used all the time on electric air-frames ,but don't remember ever seeing them in use on IC types. The Obvious lack of vibration is surely the main reason they can be used somewhat successfully most of the time .

  If I had ever seen an IMAC airplane with them ,maybe I could be enticed to using them .However, I think with the Aero loads and weight of the items, it just doesn't make sense to me if there is any chance of loosing parts. Mechanical withheld items are definitely safer even if a hassle to R & R ...  

[jf_o...@comcast.net]

Jim,

   This is basically the same scheme as used on the Curare ARF. I had one of the screws loosen and fall out. Fortunately, the other stayed in so I didn't lose the canopy. How do secure the screws to prevent loosening without crushing the wood? I know that Loctite would work, but that is a pain if one has to frequently remove the canopy/hatch.

Jeff

---

From: "Jim Johns" <tr2...@gmail.com>
To: "The Senior Pattern Association" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: larrysa...@elmore.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 4:48:09 PM

Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[Patternpilot One]

Jeff

  

One way we have used in the past is to put a piece of hardwood dowl in the side of the fuse and drill out for the screw size then, drill the dowl for the size of the socket head and and make it so screw is flush with the dowl. This way the screw wil not crush the soft balsa...

Basically like making a hard point in a flying surface.

Scott A.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: jf_o...@comcast.net
Date: 11/12/2015 12:03 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com

[Vic Koenig]

  Another use for the ubiquitous fuel tubing ??

[Jamie]

A piece of 1/8" fuel tubing is what I use on the screw to keeping it from backing out. I use that for cowlings as well. 

Jamie

[jf_o...@comcast.net]

Two good ideas. Thanks guys.

Jeff

---

From: "Jamie" <jstron...@gmail.com>
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 12:26:57 PM

[Duane Wilson]

Yes, I use a narrow piece of fuel tubing with a small washer to press down on it to create some back pressure.  I do this with my hatches and have never had one fall out.

 

Duane

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Koenig
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 12:24 PM
To: Members in SPA
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

 

  Another use for the ubiquitous fuel tubing ??

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:03 PM, <jf_o...@comcast.net> wrote:

Jim,

 

   This is basically the same scheme as used on the Curare ARF. I had one of the screws loosen and fall out. Fortunately, the other stayed in so I didn't lose the canopy. How do secure the screws to prevent loosening without crushing the wood? I know that Loctite would work, but that is a pain if one has to frequently remove the canopy/hatch.

 

Jeff

 

 

---

From: "Jim Johns" <tr2...@gmail.com>
To: "The Senior Pattern Association" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: larrysa...@elmore.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 4:48:09 PM
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

 

Fred,

 

I had some time today to think about the canopy latch problem, and here's how I fixed mine.

1. I cut a slot in the plywood under the canopy.
2. I glued a couple of craft sticks from Wally World together, then glued then to the plywood inside the fuse.
3. I marked the approximate center of the sticks on the outside of the canopy, put the canopy tightly in place, then drilled through the canopy and the craft sticks.
4. I enlarged the canopy hole to just fit a 4-40 screw and the stick hole to fit a 4-40 blind nut. 
5. After a couple dry fittings to get everything aligned properly, I CA'd the blind nut firmly into place.

I'll repeat on the other side then remove the stock latch completely for safety.

 

Jim

 

   

 

 

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 11:19:43 AM UTC-6, Fred Robertson wrote:

Larry, Jamie said you have had problems with the hatch release. Jim also mentioned some concerns in his original post. Would you comment on it more and how you fixed it. I haven't started assembling mine yet, 

 

Fred

 

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[Jim Johns]

Jeff,

I plan to use a fender washer and a flat washer as shown in the photo on mine. It seems to tighten down adequately without crushing anything. 

LocTite is also an option. Install it once with the LocTite, let it dry, then remove. There should be plenty of residue left on the screws to resist loosening. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[chue...@comcast.net]

Guys, I am obviously missing something here.  I understand using tubing to prevent a screw/bolt from loosening.  But, how do you get inside the hatch whenit is on, to push the tubing onto the screw?  I use tubing on needle valves on engines, but can't, for the4 life of me, see hnow I'd put tubing onto a csrew where 1( I can't reach inside to put it on the end of the screw, and 2) the pieces of wood/plastic being screwed together fit right next to each other...

What am I missing here???

BTW, I have my own solution to the Kaos hatch latch problem.  I'll document it as I do it.  Meanwhile, I have gotten the flight computer installed in my Kaos and got it wired up.

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

[Duane Wilson]

You screw it from the outside like Jim's example--nothing fancy, but it holds the hatch on.

Of course, my hatch is on the bottom out of sight.

 

Duane

[Jim Johns]

As Duane said, cut a thin doughnut of fuel tubing, press it onto the screw and screw it in. Easy peasy. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[chue...@comcast.net]

Aah, so it goes between the screw head and the fuse?  So it sticks out into the airstream?

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

As Duane said, cut a thin doughnut of fuel tubing, press it onto the screw and screw it in. Easy peasy. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[chue...@comcast.net]

BTW, both of Jim's pics were blank on my machine...

[Steve Byrum]

I have used left-over pieces of small diameter carbon pushrods to bush the holes where a 4-40 or 2-56 screw passes through balsa.

Phil Spelt, you can see how I did this on the Curares.  No need for blind nut. A servo screw throught the carbon bushing into the doubled craft stick will hold forever.

[Jay Marshall]

Phil, I’ve been having the same trouble with .jpg files. Try using PREVIEW.

 

Jay Marshall

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of chue...@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 2:14 PM
To: Discussion, SPA
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

 

BTW, both of Jim's pics were blank on my machine...

--

[chue...@comcast.net]

Huh -- this is the first problem I've had.  Wonder what causes it???

[Vic Koenig]

 Ype, it's in the airstream just like our servos , linkages and horns. Vic

[chue...@comcast.net]

Well, nothing on my machine will open these 2 photos.  No prob -- I know what it would look like...

[Jim Johns]

I'd forgotten about these little jewels from Ohio Superstar.  We used these to hold the cowls and belly pans on our old 2-meter pattern ships. CA it in place, screw in a sheet metal screw and it will never back out. I think I have some stashed somewhere. 

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBN44&P=ML

[Jim Johns]

Don't forget the cylinder head on glow models, Vic. 😉

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[chue...@comcast.net]

Or the spinner, FGS!!!  Don't forget the spinner...

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Don't forget the cylinder head on glow models, Vic. 😉

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[Ddphill9]

Dubro, has some button head allen bolts for holding cowls on that wont cause too much drag  !! 

Dave.

ddph...@aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: chuenkan <chue...@comcast.net>
To: Discussion, SPA <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 12, 2015 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

[Duane Wilson]

If you want to be really elegant about it, you can counter-sink to the width of the washer so it's sunken.

 

Duane

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Koenig
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 3:06 PM
To: Members in SPA
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

 

 Ype, it's in the airstream just like our servos , linkages and horns. Vic

[Patternpilot One]

Use my idea of the hard point and no washer needed. 

And no drag. If a drawing or picture is needed let me know.

S.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Duane Wilson <avlwi...@charter.net>
Date: 11/12/2015 6:22 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com

[Duane Wilson]

Jim--I wonder, how do you find these things so fast? :)

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Johns
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 3:20 PM
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SPA] Tower Kaos 60 ARF

 

I'd forgotten about these little jewels from Ohio Superstar.  We used these to hold the cowls and belly pans on our old 2-meter pattern ships. CA it in place, screw in a sheet metal screw and it will never back out. I think I have some stashed somewhere. 

--

[Jim Johns]

Truth be told - Bobbie left me sitting in the truck for an hour this afternoon while she prowled through a new outlet store in town. I was reading back through the whole thread to fight boredom, and guess Phil's comment about the fuel tubing in the slipstream triggered a memory. I knew they were from Ohio Superstar, so I just Googled them. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[chue...@comcast.net]

Yup -- done that on my Daddy Rabbits and Panzers...

[Jim Johns]

Here's a link to a youtube video of an electric Tower Kaos 60 ARF flying at the CPA West Coast Regional Championships. Pilot is Tony Frackowiak. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkn7NC_WPk

Jim

[Jim Johns]

I promised I'd post pictures of my final fix on the latch problem. Jeff was right - the machine screws crushed the underlying structure - not good or very pretty. My final fix was to CA Ohio Superstar #6 All Threads (orange) into the craft sticks and hold the canopy on with Dubro #6 x 1/2" Button Head Sheet Metal Screws. These hold great and do not crush the inner canopy structure. Not as quick to use as a spring latch, but 100% more positive.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBN45&P=ML#

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD989&P=7

I figured out the reason and the fix for the nose gear bearing problem. I'll post that later as it's time to cook supper. :-)

Jim Johns

[Jeff Owens]

Jim,

   That’s a neat solution. But I was wondering about using a commercial canopy latch like the one Bob Violett sells or perhaps this one http://www.milehighrc.com/accessories.htm

Anyone have any experience with these?

Jeff

[chue...@comcast.net]

Jeff,

If you read the item descriptions, they say "...for our gas to electric conversions..."  Electric planes have much less vibration,m, as I knnow you already know.

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Jim,

   That’s a neat solution. But I was wondering about using a commercial canopy latch like the one Bob Violett sells or perhaps this one http://www.milehighrc.com/accessories.htm

Anyone have any experience with these?

Jeff

[Jim Johns]

Jeff,

We used latches similar to those on the canopies of our 2-meter glass pattern ships back in the 90s. They worked well and were usually installed in the canopy itself. I suppose the same could be done with this ARF. 

I'm more comfortable with this solution, though. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail

[Jeff Owens]

Thanks Jim. I have on in my Pursuit 120 set up as you described. That’s why I was wondering about such a unit. I think mine is the Bob Violett one.

Phil - thanks - I missed that note. No wonder they are 1/5 the price of a BV latch.

Jeff

[chue...@comcast.net]

Hey, Jim, where did you get those glass pattern ships?  They sound very fragile to me.  lol

Yeah, a FFE -- made many of them myself...

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Jeff,

We used latches similar to those on the canopies of our 2-meter glass pattern ships back in the 90s. They worked well and were usually installed in the canopy itself. I suppose the same could be done with this ARF. 

I'm more comfortable with this solution, though. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone 6S via Gmail