Re: hai gais

[EaglesFan022]

well u have to agree, al gore would have made a much better prez then Bush....

On 6/11/08, Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday) <Bubbyl...@aol.com> wrote:

Yeah. The blog is pretty meaningless, and is useful to no one. I say
this simply because I have an Al Gore Dart Board and I watch CNN for
laughs, so your whole central "Going Green" focus is pretty funny, and
completely irrelevent to RSW, and to this topic.

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

So in this hypothetical realm we assume that Al Gore sticks with his
party. I suppose we can just as well assume that 9/11 happened--we may
even be able to assume that more had happened, seeing as the
Republican Party grabbed the bull by the horns and stepped up military
defence spending, much to the objection of the Democratic Party. So,
if Al sticks with the Democrats, war is not declared. From here we can
make a few assumptions
(The following are listed from most likely to least):
1) Attacks continue on the United States until war is declared.
2) Attacks continue on the US until the Democrats lose the '04
election.
3) Some hick shoots Gore, and Lieberman, fearing for his life,
requests a declaration of war.
4) Peace talks convince terrorists to reduce their arms, until '05,
when the UK declares war anyway.
5) An alliance is formed between the US and the Non-Saudi Middle East
despite the death and destruction that has occurred.

So, chances are, the Democrats would have no shot whatsoever at this
year's election if #1, 2, 3 or possibly 4 had occurred.

Speaking of this election, I am moving away if Obama is elected. He
will take the US out of the sunny plains of Capitalism, down the
overcast road of Socialism, and right into the flooding ditch called
Communism.

EaglesFan, I hope you learned something today--Bush may have screwed
things up, but he didn't have a heck of a lot of better choices.

[Ali Setareh]

Um... Sir u ofically suck.

--
Ali Setareh

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

HEIL CAPITALISM
THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS, THE GREED OF MEN, THE CORRUPTION OF POWER
Good ol' capitalism sure has done us some good in these past years,
huh?
Global warmings
War in Iraq
Oppressive puppet regimes
Stratification of the social masses

Obama is the democratic parties nomination, and the far lesser of two
evils
If the republicans come in, i'm moving to the UK.

We'd still be in a mess if the democrats had had power the past 8
years, but that mess sure would have been a hell of a lot better then
what we have now.

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

Ah, Vader. I can't believe you're a Commie. Have fun in the UK. To
address the four problems you mentioned above:

Global warmings--Not true, I'd hate to write another paper on it, but
I might.


War in Iraq--Ah, Vader, did you even read my post? You can't argue
with that. Plus, what would a Communist dictator have done?


Oppressive puppet regimes--Can you spell C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-M? The
leaders always get greedy. Lenin was the only one to get it right,
and
that was because he created communism (socialism), and couldn't bear
to see it fail.


Stratification of the social masses--That's a good one. Look in your
history books. Russia during Stalinism (1929-1953). Also look
anywhere
else in the world to see how we stack up.


Give me some more issues to address; it ought to be fun.

Oh, and Ali, don't post if you don't have facts to back up your
opinions. Plus, you need to really work on your spelling.

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

I spot a huge logical fallacy in your core point :P

Just because some's not a capitalist doesn't mean their a communist
There are certain aspects from both ideas that are worthy of use.
Obviously capitalism sucks balls, and the corrupted communism in
Soviet Russia wasn't much better.

Communism in itself is really THE best political system, merely humans
are the absolute worst species to follow it.

Russia was NOT communism. the USSR was CORRUPT communsim.
Ditto now. We don't have capitalism. We have CORRUPT capitalism.
However our capitalism is a lot less corrupt then the USSR's
communism.


Now back to debates
Global Warming -
Financial greed by the oil companies (among others) suppressed the
knowledge of global warming and legislation to fight the issue.
Obviously global warming would have occured without capitalism,
however there's a strong counteractions would have been taken (we
still see no real government initiatives to fighting it, while the
representatives are in the palms of the money)

War in Iraq:
Your post makes no sense and is pure speculation.
Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11
Iraq never attacked us.
Bush imagined the WMD's despite all the world's spy agencies shouting
"IRAQ DOESN'T HAVE WMD'S" and attacked on the sole premise of
destroying those weapons
Also consider we're still there despite the fact that we've now both
dispatched the tyrant (incidentally placed in power by capitalist
motives a while back) AND established that indeed there were never any
WMD's, wonder why we're still there?
I never said that iraq wouldn't have happened without the capitalists,
I merely said that it did happen in this incident because of the
capitalists.

Oppressive Regimes -
China (they're a communist front, but really capitalists)
Basically Africa as a whole (rare minerals such as diamonds (blood
diamonds ring a bell?), some oil extraction)
Most of the Middle East (oil)
And plenty others that I don't even want to think of

Stratification of the social masses -
heard the statement "20% of the world's population hold's 80% of the
world's wealth"?
Well guess what, that 20% has gone even smaller, and that 80% is even
higher now. Make a random guess why?


Also, did you seriously want Ali to back up his opinion that you
suck?! lol


On Jun 23, 8:49 am, "Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

Yeah, Vader. I wanna see what facts he can pull out of his ass to
support that theory. Vader, you make a good argument.

Global Warming--I hate to admit it, but a heck of a lot of further
research and clarification needs to be provided before:
1) Global warming or Climate Change is proven/disproven.
2) GW is connected to whatever theory if it is true.
3) Whether or not, based on whatever information is available, we can
do anything about it.

Information from a century ago was rarely accurate when measured, and
even more rarely reported correctly. The problem simply could have
arisen from the innaccuracies of early 20th Century thermometers. If
we are simply in a period of Climate Change that is simply the
opposite of the Global Cooling Period, in which temperatures dropped
approximately 3 degrees over the course of 200 years. After that it
heated back up to about normal. This is another possible explanation
for all of this. Another theory is that our polar magnitude is
switching, which would explain these temperature fluctuations. Many
people scoff at the Polar Magnitude theory, but it has been proven
that our Poles switched magnitude at least once before. The Greenhouse
Gas theory is unlikely. However, as I said, further research is
needed.

War In Iraq-- We are there simply because the terrorists are still
abroad in the Middle East. It is our responsibility to not only
protect our own people by getting rid of this threat, but to protect
innocent people abroad as well. As a global superpower we must do what
we can to protect the best interests of everyone as an equal (obvously
the terrorists get outvoted here).

I agree. Communism has its fine points, but Capitalism does a much
better job of safeguarding the world against the greed of humankind,
as Communism dictates, leaving the door wide open for fear-mongering
tyrants. It comes down to the lesser of two evils here. You cannot
agree with the Socialist extremes that Barack Obama is proposing. Once
we stray into Communism, we cannot come back. A vote for McCain
ensures that we stay on the path of Capitalism, at least until a more
moderate solution is proposed. A vote for Obama ensures an economic
death-spiral, as well as opening the door for an oppressive rule that
will not end peacefully. Do not pretend that Obama is any less
succeptable to greed than you or I. We both know that Obama, just the
same as most anyone else, would seize the opportunity for absolute
power. That is why straying from Capitalism is dangerous. A highly
Liberal movement can easily turn into a Communist one.

Take some notes.
Oh, and Ali, I'm still waiting....

[Joshua Smellie]

Yeah, we're discussing this on The Debating Arena. I like the principles and ideals of Communism but look at China, they don't carry it out like it should be. Communism is meant to be giving all people equality, treating everyone as an equal. Lack of freedom of speech would make everyone equal but it wouldn't because now China's Government decide the peoples choices.

To me, equality is giving people the right to be who they are. Freedom of speech is equal because whilst nobody is ever going to agree with your opinions or what you say, at least they have an equal right to say what they want to say and for you not to agree with them - that, to me, is equality.

The world won't be equal however as I see it, why? Because of things such as racism, sexism and prejudice. Many people still class females as the lower gender, and that they shouldn't be doing anything but housework (which we should all know is sexist and in my eyes, is disgusting). People are racist because most countries cannot accept foreigners without some line of suspicion. Hell, look at African American people in America. They could be damn born there and a lot of them are still treated as crap (though a lot of them bring that upon themselves, in which case it's their own fault). As for prejudice, people can't accept other people - regardless of sex, race or culture. Homosexuals are still shunned away from many societies (and notice how lesbians are usually not? More sexism), as are a lot of metal disabled people.

Earth, in my eyes, will never be an equal world. And that's because people are too caught up in their own problems to respect their fellow man. Understandably, you should always put you and your family and friends first. That's what I believe, but I also think you should have some compassion for your fellow man or women. They have every right as you do. Whether they be straight, gay, black or white, man or female or they come from another country altogether. They should be given every right as you, unless they've proven themselves unworthy of such compassion (terrorists would, for me, go into this, or murders/rapists and the like as they show no compassion themselves).

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

Global Warming -
Plenty of research has been done and ALL of the legitimate research
agree with the theory, only the crackpot propaganda "science" from
those who oppose global warming disagrees. There has never been any
reputable papers against global warmings, and quite simply there never
will be, for the one reason that it can't be disproven.
There are things we can do, it's already too late to prevent it, but
we can mitigate the effects. However they cost enormous amounts of
money and cut profits from large companies (Again, capitalism at it's
godly work)
The grean house theory needs no further proving, it's already
established, well supported and the only legitimate things dealing
with global warming are theories that magnify the greenhouse effect or
serve to add upon it.
The poles switching has little to do with the green house effect. If
the poles were to suddenly disappear, we would get more cosmic
radiation however that would not effect the temperature significantly,
only having an effect if the green house theory was correct and
working.

War in Iraq -
we have terrorists at home and much closer to home too. Drug dealers
kill more American lives then terrorists ever have, the Mexican
government is literally at war with drug dealers and their national
military is LOOSING against those drug lords. There are plenty of
things that are more effective that could be done with less money and
in a faster fashion. You are aware that since America started
"fighting" terrorism, terrorist attacks have sharply risen, civilian
casualties by terrorism has risen, terrorist population has risen, the
number of terrorist cells has risen, as well as the resources for
terrorism? Fighting terrorism merely creates more terrorism, akin to
fighting a fire with gasoline.
As a global super power, we must first protect ourselves, then protect
our allies, THEN protect foreign countries.
Killing innocent lives and promoting terrorism to fill our
unrestrained lust for oil is not part of our duties.

Greed -
McCain has already been corrupted by power and financial greed.
Take a pick, someone that has the *possibility* of being corrupted, or
someone that has already become corrupted?
Barrack does not promote Socialist extremes.
Mccain is the one proposing extreme "solutions", and his party has a
good track record of coming through with those idiotic ideas and
falling short on anything that even resembles a productive idea that
doesn't make money.
I remind you McCain is a Republican, and the republicans are the ones
that have screwed our nation over time and time again. It was the
Democratic Clinton that brought the national debt to an all time low
(among other things), and soon after the wonderful republican George
W. Bush dropped us to an all time high (which is now almost considered
"unrecoverable").
Capitalism easily corrupts. Nearly all who gain power ARE corrupt, for
in capitalism power is corruption, in communism not all who gain their
power are corrupt (though as proven by russia, those given power are
corrupted by it).
A democratic liberal movement is certainly a much larger step forward
then a republican capitalist movement (which could be more easily
categorized as a large step backwards)


On Jun 24, 6:01 pm, "Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

Your part on the Greenhouse effect is incorrect. It is unproven, with
legitimate studies opposing it, and Global Warming entirely. Yes, it
CAN be disproven. Do not take wrong here, I understand that Global
Warming is likely to be true and it might be caused by greenhouse
gasses. But just because something is likely does not necessarily make
it true. I'll get to all this later.

So Barack doesn't support Socialist extremes? Interesting........ Who
has the most liberal voting record in the Senate? Obama does. If you
have ever even seen his platform, you would easily realize how liberal
this is going to be-- how much of a chokehold the government would
have on us. Read the Newsmax article "Obamanomics" for me, or simply
research his plans for the economy. So, the government controlling the
prices of everyday goods isn't a Socialist extreme?

Interesting that you would oppose the truth...

ALSO, ALI IM STILL WAITING!

[Aj]

The "Green House" effect is proven, but until recently scientists said
they could not link global warming with this effect or humans. Now
more research has been done we know that humans are having an effect
on global warming through the "greenhouse" effect amongst other
things.

It may have been a bad idea to go to Iraq in the first place but now
we are there we need to stay until things are sorted out. If both
countries pulled out now it would be in a worse state than when we
went in.

On 25 Jun, 15:38, "Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod

[justin welch]

thats true about iraq

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[indyman]

This is in response to Aj the entire world thought saddam had wmd's
plus he was an evil dictator who starved his people to death

> --
> --~~~~~Justin Welch~~~~~--

> 8888888888888888888888888888888- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Aj]

I never said he wasn't, but whether we should have started a war or
not is a slightly different thing. The one of the main reasons GBush
wanted to got to war was the he was convinced there were wmds and
managed to convince other people, also The USA's economy is helped
when they have a war every so often.

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

The economy is HELPED
LOLWUT are we talking about the same country?!
US gas has almost tripled in price, food costs are souring, we have an
all time high national debt, unemployment and national spending is
rapidly increasing
Why? THE BLOODY WAR.
The US economy is helped when the WORLD had a war, not when we have a
"little" war on our own.
World War One? Massive profit. But we only entered near the end and
didn't really do much even then.
World War Two? Similar issue, we made massive profits off of the
beginning, though we did spend money later on.
Now in the Iraq war the US economy is not getting any benefits, it's
the oil monopolies within the US economy that are having enormous
profit through (illegal) war profiteering.

Iraq in a worse state? Not really
The terrorism has gotten progressively worse and now a VAST majority
of the population want's us out.
The more we try to fix things, the more we screw it up.
The reason we're there is to secure our oil access rights because we
know as soon as we leave, the country is gonna jack up their prices
real high in retribution for us screwing up their country.
If all we really wanted was to get rid of Saddam, what we should have
done is what we have frequently done. Covert ops. Either provide arms
to the existing discontent people and create terrorist actions against
the dictator, or personally assassinate him, then go in during the
following coup with the UN and restructure the nation as a democracy..
Much faster, much safer, much cheaper and much more effective. Plus
we'd end up with a better Middle east then we'll now get.
The reason we went in was because of the "WMD's"
And Bush was the ONLY one who "thought" there was WMD's. Of the CIA,
not the FBI, NSA, DoD, MI6, UN and all of the other intelligence
agencies of the world, NOT ONE thought there was WMD's. In fact it's
likely Bush was the only official in the world to think Saddam had
WMDs. Going into such a long war over one man's unsupported opinions?
Madness.

Also I'm sure you heard of the Brit's and their military pull out
reports, right?
In areas that they pulled out troops (leaving those areas totally in
native hands), terrorism dropped to nearly zero and stability was
quickly returned to the area.
Many other countries that area pulling out are experiencing similar
phenomenons.
And in support of that theory, the places that the US is moving in
troops are experiencing a rise in terrorism and more and more
instability.

In the US government, "Extreme liberal ideas" are the equivalent of
mild mild mild socialist ideas.
And government regulation of prices is good. Look at what the
wonderful capitalism has brought us :P

Global warming has been recorded for many years
Even if you imagine that older thermometers were inaccurate, hundreds
of readings tend to average out to the correct value even with their
primitive technology.

global warming is not likely. It's true.
Just like you can't debate that the Earth orbits the sun and what not,
global warming is a solid fact.
The republicans are the worst people to listen for these things.
Simply because their politicians are mere capitalist puppets, not
longer representatives of the people (Though the people themselves
are, as apparently shown, also mindless drones to propaganda spread by
faulty "pay4report" scientists and their billionaire masters)

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

Hey Vader! GW is far from a fact! Oh, and unemplyment is ALWAYS solved
by ideas from the far-left. Jesus, do you know what you're saying?!
The Economy IS helped by wars. Check the facts, or don't post at all.

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

take some advice of your own.
GW is a FACT.
Just because there are crackpots opposing the idea doesn't change it.
No matter how much money I spend bribing scientists to say gravity
isn't real, it's still there no? Same thing.

Ditto the point to unemployment and economy.

Stop reading the uneducated propaganda in your left-ist newspapers and
on mainstream TV (which is, as the government, corporate sponsored)

On Jun 25, 1:50 pm, "Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

Ha. You think that the media is conservative? Everywhere outside of a
few shows on Fox News, it's all left-based.
Hee-hee, you're getting so upset about this. I don't know whether GW
is real or not. Anyone who thinks they do doesn't know what they're
talking about. It still has not been proven, and, obviously, it has
not been successfully connected to mankind. I listen to every side of
the story, Vader.

You might want to try the same.

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

Listening to both sides is not the same as using a brain and figuring
out which side is bull shit :P
I listened to both sides, I picked out the bullcrap on the left side,
and once that was done the only conclusion is that Global warming is a
very real threat.
It's people like you that are helping destroy the world :)
Though there's nothing here that'll be missed.

On Jun 25, 2:37 pm, "Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod

[Joshua Smellie]

Vadar, don't blame oil prices on the government either. Governments do not control the oil prices, they don't sell the damn stuff they just tax it (or at least, the NZ Government does, they put GST on petrol which is absolutely bullshit when it's neither a good nor service). I'm sick of innocent people taking the rap for what the oil companies have started.

As for oil running out? That's absolute bullshit. The oil barons *say* oil is running out and we believe the bastards. But where's the proof? Where is scientific evidence that oil wells will be run dry by 2050? We've only been using oil for what, a few hundred years? A resource which has been around since the dawn of man itself? And we're running out *now*? C'mon, like hell we are!

As experts say, a barrel of oil should be costing us around $80-100 (NZD) but in reality, we're paying around $140-160 (again, NZD) for it. Nearly every country pays rougly $2 (and that's with conversions, though the UK pay over that and the conversion of GBP to NZD would be making us in New Zealand, pay around $4 per litre).

As for the war in Iraq? F**k it. Stop damn talking about it. It happened, George Bush waged war on Iraq because he *though* Hussein had WMDs. He *assumed* he had, he didn't have any proof. But regardless, with Saddam dead Iraq is much better for it, if you ask me. But stop damn talking about it. It happened, what are you going to do? Go back and stop it? Well here's some reality for you - YOU DAMN CAN'T SO STOP EFFING COMPLAING!

And Vadar as for this statement: It's people like you that are helping destroy the world :)
I don't find that justifed, everyone is allowed their opinion. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to insult them. I will lock this topic if neccessary as I can see a flame war happening soon...

[indyman]

If global warming is true, I say other than using hybrids and cutting
back on a few things, there isn't much we can do. Al Gore's theory is
that the main reason the Earth is getting warmer is that carbon
dioxide is being trapped in the Earth's atmosphere. The fact that 6.5
billion people exhale carbon dioxide into the air every couple of
seconds just makes me wonder how global warming happened in 8 years if
we all exhale carbon dioxide into the air since who knows how long.

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

Josh, go ahead. It's obvious that *some* of us can't talk about things
without getting upset. Plus, Josh, you're right. About the war and the
oil. But did you know that we could supply ourselves with oil for 700
years just with the oil in the continental US? Add in Alaska and the
Gulf Of Mexico, and we have approximately 1400 years, and that's only
counting places we've already found oil. I want the democrats to stop
pretending that we can easily "get around" drilling in the US. Let's
just fire it up now, and save time (and money). Vader, I apologize if
you've only ever experienced preaching to the converted, but some of
us know how to handle ourselves in the face of opposing viewpoints.
Either calm down or please just do not post--I've got some more
Liberals to roast on a spit.

[Aj]

Indyman, it is mostly over population of cows and cars that is causing
it now. And in relation to other things these havn't been around that
long.

[indyman]

Im saying cut back on our luxurys like cars and what not, not only
will it help the environment it will cut gas prices. I also agree with
Edxx3 that we need to drill for oil here. It's a shame that both sides
(republicans & democrats) can't work together to realize that we need
to bring supply up and demand down.

> > > lock this topic if neccessary as I can see a flame war happening soon...- Hide quoted text -

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

I never blamed the government for oil prices. I blamed capitalism.
Capitalism = ! government


Oil running low -
it's been around since before the dinosaurs.
However it's remained untapped until recently.
And as I'm sure you know, oil is a non-renewable resource (For all
aspects), so what we use never returns.
Say you have a sealed bottle juice. Now you poke a hole and push a
straw into the juice. And then you begin drinking the juice to ease
your thirst. You will probably notice that the juice rapidly goes down
and never comes up. And you'll notice that when you're really thirsty
and require that liquid, you require more then that one juice bottle.
But once it's out, somehow it never refills.
Oil is the same way. It's a new commodity that revolutionized the
world, bringing on the "Age of the machines" (among other things).
But those machines don't use oil efficiently (cars are below 50%
efficiency, plus energy lost refining the oil. Those trans-continental
trucks are even worse. Ships suck), and nothing is ever filling that
oil back up.
Very small supply + very high demand + no refill rate = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$
Plenty of independent research has stated that oil is rapidly going
away. It wasn't exactly plentiful in the beginning.
Add in the fact that you simply Can't get all the oil out (for the
juice analogy, fill up the bottle with sand then suck out the juice)
because it's IN the rocks. Oil isn't exactly like a pool floating
there which is readily taken out. It's more of a sponge.
Some people are surprisingly ignorant that not all oil can be used,
and that not all oil deposits are "productive" to be mined (though
with the supply dwindling and prices rising, more and more "bad"
deposits become "worth it).
Those studies that say "oh we have plenty of oil" or "there's a ton of
oil in the US" don't account for those factors. They are RAW figures,
useless for tallying our dry oil supply.
Alaska wild life preserve holds enough oil to last the US for 4 months
AT IT'S CURRENT CONSUMPTION RATE. 4 months. That's the drill-able
useful oil. Not the highly inaccurate raw numbers of what exists. When
you tell the numbers, it sorta helps to tell the ones that are
relevant.

Based on supply and demand, oil should cost that price.
However the Iraq war has made the largest and highest quality oil
sources into unstable resources, rising the price.
You know who to thank.

We can't stop the war from happening, but we sure as hell can stop it
from continuing.
McCain want's to go on a billion year war against terrorism. That's
something that can be changed. I like cheap electricity, which
requires cheaper oil, which requires McCain to GTFO of the political
machine.

It is justified. Edxx is obviously a republican and supports the Iraq
war and etc.
Bush is a republican, and incidentally supports the same etcs.
Bush screwed the world over when he attacked Iraq (Even you can agree
with those gas prices)
Unlike Ali, I can back up my statement.

Hybrids are not a viable method to cut global warming.
Why?
Lets say you have a Hummer. Now suddenly you get some Moses burning
bush revalation and go out to buy a Prius.
Unless you destroy the Hummer, you'll probably sell it. And someone
will probably buy it. And they'll drive it. So that hummer is still on
the road polluting.
And now you have Prius. Unless you convert it to all electric
(awesome), you will still use gasoline. So the net effect is now you
have a Hummer+Prius greenhouse gases being released.
The net effect is increasing global warming, because despite reducing
your PERSONAL CO2 emissions, you've increased the world's.

If every person in the world were to stop breathing for a year, but
somehow manage to continue operating their machinery at the exact same
Co2 exhaust rate, you'd reduce humanity's CO2 output by approximately
4%
Astounding.
Global warming has been happening for many years
However are you familiar with an exponential line graph? It starts out
slow and dramatically increases.
(Less people + less machines + cost prohibitive machines + less
oil)*time = (lots of people + lots of machines + cheaper machines +
more oil) = now

Cows produce Methane. While methane is a much more potent greenhouse
gas, compared to the gases created by machinery, it's almost
negligible (though it does cause regional changes)

Luxury cars exist in such small numbers that, regardless of their
higher Co2 output, they don't really matter.
It's machines in general. Like tractors, the staple for food
production throughout the world, which produce enormous amounts of
uncleaned pollution.
Or ships, used to transport the bulk of human resources. In fact once
a ship came in from China, and it alone produced enough pollution for
the area to declare an unsafe air day (The ship + local weather)

I don't preach period.
You're only the second person I've ever meet that didn't believe in
Global warming.
That includes IRL republicans, Christian religious nuts (not the
regular ones, the ones that try to ram a cross down your eye if you
don't believe in the savior), and all the normal sort that "oppose"
Global warming. Even Chevron officials admitted to global warming,
though their plans to "reduce and repair" it where... what you would
expect.
The first person was a combination of the above... old fanatical
christian republican ex-oil official (mineral research department)...
though he's dead now.

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

holy hell that's a lotta text

in b4 "tl;dr" or people who didn't read it all.

[Joshua Smellie]

I'm "agnostic" on the whole believe of Global Warming. I think there's much worse problems out there than "Global Warming" to be honest. I also didn't know the US had so much oil but I assumed they would have. Like I said, oil barons have no damn proof we're running out. But we have proof against it. If you want oil prices down then go to your CHEAPEST petrol station and every time one changes to supply cheaper or more expensive petrol then you change. If people do that instead of wasting pointless time rioting and HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DAMN "CRISIS" (so many cases of that it's so stupid how people do that) then the oil companies will be forced to supply cheaper petrol.

This is a whole conspiracy. Someone has to stand up to the damn pricks and expose them for what they're doing. They're not doing anything illegal but a lot are saying we're going to run out of petrol by 2050 and because it's obvious that we are not then it's a damn lie, they're conspiring to rip money off us.

[ethan bostwick]

actualy i do believe the oil companies have nothing to do with it im pretty sure the stations are in flating the prices.

[Joshua Smellie]

You can't blame the petrol stations, the only reason we pay so high is because they pay so high. Petrol stations make money, sure, but that's what you want out of a business -- to make more money than you're paying. Or in other words; you want to make a profit. Petrol stations still have to buy the oil, oil companies don't, they bloody supply it so why would they have to pay for it?

The stations don't put the prices up by choice (they could but it'd be a very foolish business decision), they put them up when they, themselves, have to pay more to get the oil in the first place.

[Joshua Smellie]

Oh, and also note oil isn't just used in cars. It's used for a ton of different things. It's used for fuel (as we all know), lubrication, heat transport (oil is an insulator of electricity and has higher boiling points than that of water, that should be obvious). Hell, oil's even used for painting and ANYTHING made of plastic was made from oil, because oil is needed to make plastics. Even some medicinal products use oil or other petroleum products in them.

So with the price of oil going up it's not just having an effect on fuel prices but also on a number of different things (one of them we can change, and that's by recycling any plastic goods as they can easily be reused).

[Lord Vader:: Official flamer of morons]

oil's major use is as a fuel for transportation, hence the food riots
throughout the world.
Recycling helps reduce the energy in oil refinement, however the
process of oil refinement produces plastic regardless of whether or
not you want it so the net effect is you reduce the price of plastic,
though oil is still used.

The cheapest petrol station still pays about the same price for oil
and hopes to make back their loss through more customers
2*$4=$8
4*$2=$8
Though to a much lesser difference
Buying from the cheaper petrol station doens't help drive down gas as
the actual cost per barrel remains the same
Plus 3rd party gas stations just resell the lowergrade gas from
companies like Chevron and lower their prices to get the customers
Regardless if you go to the most expensive or the cheapest station,
the oil companies still get the same amount (unless the most expensive
station is a monopoly station, in which case the oil companies get a
bit more).
It wont help drive down the prices.

Dun worry, we'll still have of oil left in 2050, but it's extraction,
refinement and shipping costs will be so high by then, that it'll no
longer be a matter of how much the car costs, but how much the gas it
uses costs.

I wish you the best of luck willing with all your might that the
prices go down, however electric vehicles are a better choice, even
without global warming and even if oil was still $100 a barrel.
Add in global warming and oil peaking, they're a mighty bargain.
Ya wont win the national cross-country in one, but it'll certainly
save a pretty penny as a shuttle vehicle.

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

I just have a quick note for this very out-dated topic:

If you look back a couple of posts, you see Vader blame the government
for making oil prices so high. And yet the ideals he supports would
allow the government set the prices at whatever they want via martial
law.
FYI, those Socialists aren't gonna lose money just to please their
citizens. They'll jack up the prices and get rid of protesters via
(the previously mentioned) martial law.

So, if anyone has a problem with Capitalism, think of the alternative.
Many of you point out the advantages of Communism, but this country
(unfortunately) doesn't deal in moderation. No, we choose the
extremes. So if you want Communism, you're getting the whole deal.
Vise Versa with Capitalism, but the advantages of Capitalism far
outweigh the disadvantages.

The Democrats want the government to control most every aspect of a
person's life, giving only the powerful a vote in things. But the
Republicans want the people to control most every aspect of the
government, giving the rich and the poor and equal vote.

Those are basically the cornerstone of most policies held by a party.

Just think:
Do you want a government run by the people
or
A people enslaved by their government?

I hope the choice is obvious.

[Joshua Smellie]

The government does not control the oil prices, they tax oil (in New Zealand, but not in most other countries like the US) but they do not control the oil prices. The oil barons, the actual companies which mine the oil, they set the prices to high. They are starting to come down but for us in NZ, they are still above the $2/L mark and they do not need to be. If they continue to rise they shall screw the economy up so bad.

As to your last question. I would rather have a government run by the people but do you really think that will ever happen? I highly doubt it. Currently, we sort of do have a government run by the people but the only thing we decide is who gets in and who doesn't. Not much of a choice when you think about it, not as much as what they decide is "good" and "bad".

[Edxx3 (The 1 who will, god willing, be a Mod someday)]

It's happening.

In conservative states such as Indiana, the County, Tri-County, City,
and even State legislatures are open to all. Of course, these
positions are elected, but they are easy for a common citizen to
obtain. Even in the County legislatures, decisions are made that may
cause a chain reaction through the legislatures.

IE; On May 14th, Thompson County overturned the long-standing Indiana
law that prohibits Alcohol sales on the Sabbath (dumb-ass law, but it
is a conservative, and thus highly religious, state). The law was then
adopted by Lafayette, Indiana (the city that houses Purdue
University). A few other counties picked up on the movement and, as
you read this, the law is in front of the Indiana State Legislature.

[Joshua Smellie]

Those are but a few states. New Zealand doesn't have states, and other countries aren't necessarily conservative. I also don't like the idea of the whole banning of Alcohol sales on the day of the Sabbath. I find that extremely pathetic, religious state or not, to me that's discrimination against every other religion.