Hamburger phenomenon

[Intoxic]

How did the chloride shift become known as the Hamburger phenomenon????
Anyone?

[mainunderdawg]

What are you talking about? I am a student in the U.S. Here it is a two
year program, but practically three years with the required general
credits. Actually we started practicals the second quarter, were doing
nebs, sx, e.t.c by the end of the second Q. Now I'm finishing up with
six months left. I love it also. Where is everyone?

[Intoxic]

LOL. It says that in our Blood Gas Analysis book by Malley. It's a good
book. Check it out.
The program here in Canada is 3 years, 2 years of full theorie and 1
year of full practicum. We learn stuff a little different here... (from
what I'm told).

[mainunderdawg]

We used the blood gas book by Shapiro...I'll be damned if I remember
everything from that book. It read like a book about brain surgery. Of
course I remember the important theories. Perhaps you could refresh my
memory..The main things that are stressed in our studies, beyond the
basics of course, is assessment, assessment, and more assessment. I
just finished hemodynamics, which I despised, even though I got an A.
Now we are having classes on sleep lab and pharmacology/assessment. Of
course we are still having clinicals also...
ABG's are my fave, I'll never get bored of stabbing patients (LOL).
It's totally cool we have a respiratory forum.

[Intoxic]

Well the chloride shift (Hamburger phenomenon) occurs when there's a
loss of bicarb from the cell, chloride enters to compensate and keep
electrical neutrality... the whole carbonic acid equation
(H2O + CO2 <---> H2CO3- <---> H+ + HCO3-)

[mainunderdawg]

Ahh. Yes of course the equation that equation rings a bell. The
volatile and non-volatile acids. On the right side is the inorganic,
organic, lactic, and keto acids + sodium bicarbonate. On the left water
and CO2 of course, and carbonic acid in the middle. The reversability
means a majority of metabolites is exreted by our lungs. I don't recall
the significance of the chloride shift though, I do know that when
chloride is not available in sufficient quantitity, the renal is
effected cuz bicarb has to be used/made. But, I don't remember anything
about things happening the other way around. Please explain the
significance. We learned these things the first quarter so it's been
almost two years! Again we spent waaaaaay more time in that class on
Blood gas Analysis. Anyways, it's nice to have a respiratory forum. I'm
surprised we are the only ones here so far. Isn't it cool how the field
has grown?My former teacher who retired last year originally started in
respiratory by replying to an ad for Oxygen Man LOL! I am most
interested in Ventilators. I also try to brainstorm about new tx for
COPD. I refuse to accept the Chronic part!
So where is your brother "ated"??? No doubt recouperating from a night
with you, LOL!

[ShelleyN]

LOL... The chloride shift is there to keep the equilibrium. Chloride
returns to plasma in exchange for bicarb. So bicarb can enter the cell
to replenish stores.

We spend alot of time on this stuff too... let me tell you. I hope this
forum can be expanded so we can collaborate and learn lots. I really
like them ventilators too. Which ones do you occupy yourself with the
most??

[theOXYGENpimp]

Well, now that I have joined your group...

I am most familiar with the servo 900 because that is all over my
clinical site.
Interesting tidbit: Peak pressure and plataeu pressures relationships
can tell you a lot.
If only peak goes up momentarily: cough/snort
if peak is slowly rising: 95% of the time buildup of secretions
if peak and plataeu both the same: things are not looking good..more
later on this gotta go

[ShelleyN]

LOL, yeah we just finished that ventilator in our vents class.

Here's another thing about it... you take MV and the fraction of Ti%
and it gives you your flow.

I heart the 900C

[ShelleyN]

BTW... I like the new nickname...Oxygen pimp!!

[theOXYGENpimp]

What country are you in Shelley?