Buying a Passport 40

[Jean-Philippe]

Gentlemen,

I am flying over to Mystic, CT next week to look with the surveyor at
Annie B, a 1988 Passport 40, which is lying there. If there are no
issues with the boat, then I will probably own it. I plan to solo
circumvent on her and know it is a good boat for that project.

However, I have done some serious reading around your forums and
others, and frankly have been a bit scared by the number of semi-
serious issues you guys seem to encounter with that boat. Issues
ranging from leaking chainplates to quadrant and ballast oxidation and
other such nasty problems. My alternative choice for a boat is a 1997
Valiant 42, which is much more recent but a lot more expensive and
frankly not as nice as the older Passport 40 I am considering. However
it seems to be a lot more consistent with respect to problems: i.e.
not many!

Am I scaring myself unnecessarily? Will the survey pick up all the
problems and are all issues fixable "for good" or will I constantly
have to repair and watch these annoying bits?

I know a boat is a living thing and it needs maintenance of course,
but there is maintenance and then there is hardcore heavy duty repair
work...

Kind regards
JP

[George Louis]

I own a 1985 Passport 40 and I have had the quadrant stand replaced, 2 chain plates, no problem that I am aware of with the ballast. The quadrant was an issue that could have been fixed without replacing I was told, however I didn't agree with the mechanic and I had a fiberglass one replace the steel frame. Now the quadrant stand will never need replacing. The chain plates are always an issue on any older boat and so far the 2 I have replaced are fine and the remaining ones look fine too. I would check out the muffler box / baffle exhaust since most were made of metal and have corroded out. This is located just aft of the engine. I had to replace mine and it too was glassed. Check your water tanks assuming they are stainless, and look inside the tank for any corrosion. This too is normal considering the age of the boat.

George Louis

Wind Thief

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From: Jean-Philippe <jpgai...@gmail.com>
To: Passport Owners <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 2:09:19 AM
Subject: [Passport] Buying a Passport 40

[Matt Sponer]

Hi,
I would evaluate each boat on it's individual merits. It really
depends on how well it has been cared for.

I would take a 20+ year old Passport 40 like Adagio over any brand new
boat. Jeff and Jane have reworked and maintained her mechanical
systems to better than mega-yacht standards.

Even brand new boats have the potential for heart breaking problems. A
few months after buying an almost new Island Packet, some friends of
mine had to tear up a large section of the floor and interior
furniture to replace a stainless steel water tank that was leaking.
They suspected the previous owner had used bleach or chlorine to treat
the water, which corroded the welds, or maybe the welds were never
good in the first place. Nearly new boats from the same manufacturer
have also had horrible chain plate corrosion problems, but in some
ways, worse than on a Passport 40-- because the chainplates were
fiberglassed into the hull, so replacing them was not a simple matter
of unbolting them.

I met a huge 50+ foot Tayana in the yard that was replacing all of
their standing rigging. Apparently the Chinese yard had substituted
all of the rigging with some kind of fake stainless. It makes me
wonder if they were in store for a similar time bomb in the quadrant
that Passport's have, but nearly 25 years later.

Have you read Maiden Voyage? Tania Aebi's brand new Contessa had a ton
of problems on her first sail. Water tanks that tasted like
fiberglass. Leaks....

So my advice is to make a list of the really horrible things that
happen to boats, and make sure that you check for each one with your
surveyor. In my experience, most surveys are Kabuki. The surveyor
spends their whole day checking $15 float switches on bilge pumps,
writing down model numbers of batteries and radios, and photographing
insignificant quarter sized blisters on the hull. A stuck thru hull is
not a reason to pass on a boat. Leaking water or diesel tanks, or a
delaminated deck, or a spongy mast step, those are serious problems
that can be a huge endeavor to fix, and are easily reasons to pass on
a boat or negotiate an enormous discount. But most surveys gloss over
these-- they bang on the hull in five or six places with the little
hammer and proclaim it's sound, and they usually specifically exclude
tank leaks in their write up, and their engine survey is usually a
quick looksy with a run up. For me, I would spend at least an hour
systematically tapping on every part of a cored deck, looking for soft
spots, and pressure testing each tank. It's time consuming and a pain
in the butt, but really, that is what you really have to worry about
when buying a boat-- the several thousand dollar clusterf*** of
grinding fiberglass and cutting up furniture and steel. Not $100
thru-hulls.

Maybe purchase surveys should be take two or three days.

I think Valiant 42's are excellent boats, and would love to
circumnavigate in one. Or another Passport 40. For my taste, I think
the Passport 40's have a somewhat better hull shape, but I also like
the lack of teak decks on a Valiant, though that can easily be
retrofitted on a Passport 40 when yours go.The "as designed" chain
plate knees on a Valiant are of course much preferred to what the
builder did to those on the Passport, but my previous Passport 40
circumnavigated on her original knees. And, depending on where the
furniture is, the fix doesn't have to be a huge ordeal if they start
to go. Have you read "Yacht Design According to Perry"? He has a
couple chapters on the Valiants and the Passports.

Of course, for cruising, more money is much better than less. And even
some of these most depressing problems mentioned above can be fixed
for a couple thousand dollars and weeks of your own sweaty itchy
fiberglassing work. It is possible to circumnavigate on $100/month. I
know people who have done it. But they ate a lot of rice and never had
the opportunity to rent cars and go inland. Camping in the Australian
outback, or horseback riding to see the big turtles in Galapagos,
those are some of my fondest cruising memories, and I would not have
been able to do that if there was no money left over. And, who knows,
once you get out there, you may decide you never want to come back to
being a landlubber.

Good luck with your purchase and plans.

Matt.
(former Passport 40 owner, but still a big fan)

[Michael Moradzadeh]

Matt's report is an excellent one. Each boat is indeed a little different.

Among the Passports, we do have a pretty well-defined set of issues.
Cayenne, a 1984 Passport 40 has a few quirks: the chainplate leak issue,
plus a need to rebed all the hardware because of other leaks. These are
normal and not unique to passports.

No knee movement at all, and no noticeable corrosion of ballast. I think
that on most of the knee movement issues I have seen, there has been rod
rigging. My rigger refused to put rod on Cayenne saying that the hull was
"squishy" on passports (meaning flexible) and that the rod would do no good.
Me, I think that the rod transfers all the stress to the knees, and there
you go.

I've sailed 15,000 miles on wire rigging with no knee problem.

Valiants are nice. I think you can't go wrong either way, but I'd rather
have a Passport and $100,000 than a Valiant and nothing!

Michael

[Bill Morrison]

Hi guys;

I really enjoy these discussions. Matt is right on...cant wait to get to maylasia!!

Can someone tell me what are knees? What are knee problems?...I can write a book on my own personal knee problems but I am guessing this is entirely different.

cheers!

Where you go,there you are. William S. Morrison

[John Baudendistel]

JP,

 

Hello.  The Passport is a great boat as well as the Valliants.  Passport made several models a (P40, P42, many) (P47 a few, and P51's a few).  Most models were either the P42 a Bob Perry design, with the P42 and P51 being a Stan Hunntingford design.  I own the P42, a double ender much more shaped like a Valliant 42 with the large canoe stern.  I'm sure I'll spark debate here.  But the 42's do not have "knees" as the 40's do.  Neither do they have the rudder cage.  The difference is in the profile with the P42 sitting about 4" higher.  P40 chain plates go through the deck and are bolted the the "knees".  On the P42 the chain plates are fiberglassed into the hull, with no "knees"  I have only heard of one P42 owner who replaced his chain plates.  I do not know if it was needed or not.  Michael has a point that some of the 40's which had knee problems has rod rigging, which was not original.  Their is not a need for a rudder cage for the top bearing support on the P42, it is built into the hull itself.  The fuel and water tanks are all below decks, providing much more storage under the main salon seatees.  I carry 150 gallons of water and 110 gallons of fuel.  Also in the stern the 42's have massive storage in 3 lockers.  Some owners have installed generators in there.  All of the Passport models have gone around the world.  My neighbor Jean Nicca went around in a P42.  I know of 47's which have gone around, as I'm sure many 40's have.  Many at this point are on their next trip around.  The 40 is a sloop, the 42, 47, and 51 are cutter rigged, usually with a removable inner stay.  Depends on the configuration.  Just food for thought.  Feel free to contact me if you have specific questions about the 42 or other Passports in general.   

 

John Baudendistel

P42

1985. 

[Michael Moradzadeh]

What the knees are, by the way, are the triangular inserts between deck and hull.  The chainplates are bolted to them.  Back in the olden days, these were made from bent oak branches (sometimes pre-bent a century in advance in a forest) and, hence, looked sorta like knees.  Or so I been told.

 

Michael

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From: Passpor...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Passpor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Baudendistel
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:59 PM
To: Jean-Philippe
Cc: Passport Owners

Subject: [Passport] Re: Buying a Passport 40

[Bill Morrison]

Thank you very much..as always you guys are terrific.!

Where you go,there you are. William S. Morrison

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From: m...@yachtpc.com
To: jo...@ets247.com; jpgai...@gmail.com
CC: Passpor...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Passport] Re: Buying a Passport 40

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:41:13 -0700

<BR

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Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now!

[RickC...@aol.com]

JP -

 

We have P-40 Hull #136 - late 1988.  By that time most of the earlier chronic P-40 issues seem to have been worked out.  We've owned "Drambuoy" for 20 years and have basically just changed the oil and sailed .... + the usual common sense maintenance things like re-rigging, re-caulking the teak and replacing the sails & mechanical stuff that reached (typically always exceeded)  the end of its expected life. Granted, we haven't blue-water cruised but we've been up and down the CA Coast several times - often in conditions that the boat handled a lot better than the crew (a story we've heard repeated by others with far more off-shore experience...).  In fact I'd say that the Passport views the open water like a puppy going off leash.  No "knee problems," but we've kept them dry by recaulking  the protective deck plates a few times. No visible quadrant (rudder cage) issues.  Bottom line for us:  After 20 years of ownership we've absolutely no reason to covet another sailboat.  I'd buy the P-40 again in a second - one of our very best sailing decisions.

 

Rick Cooley

 

~~~_/) ~~~

[Jean-Philippe Gaillard]

Thanks Rick, and to all of you. These are awesome inputs. My survey is on the 14th... I can't wait!

 

I guess my concerns are narrowed down to:

 

Pros for P40:

- for solo circumventer like me a 40 foot is probably max i can handle (route is Florida, Carib, Cape Horn, Galap, NZ, Oz, South Af, florida, 5 years all-in maybe)

- she is cheaper than a valiant 42 by $85k which is not a small amount (once all is factored in on both boats ready to go)

- has been well taken care of i'd say and is a late 88 model which seems from reading many posts be a good vintage

- no "junk" - i don't like aircon, watermaker and all these things. I may only be 32, but I like the old school thing: paper charts and a compass and handheld GPS!

- the Passport forum is amazing. people who own these boats seem to be to my liking!

 

Cons for P40:

- high price compared to other P40s (some of it due to roller furling boom and electric winch that has been fitted to it as well as clearly high quality maintenance performed on it by 3 pervious owners)

- questionable resale value at that price I am buying her

- lack of storage in my opinion (although am solo so that will solve problems, but hey may find my wife on the seas!)

 

 

The Valiant 42 I am considering has a few advantages/disadvantages of his own:

- I get the boat cheap because I have to redo all standing and running rigging and new sails, so before I leave I have a brand new boat! Plus a normal buyer for that boat would do the whole electronic nav stuff again, which I will not because I don't need it

- even factoring that in, and a bunch of other things I sitll am only $85k above the P40 which is not enormous

- there is a lot more space in that one for storage of many things (windsurf board and surfboard as well as diving bottle compressor comes to mind!)

- the layout however is not so cool as the p40 which i like a LOT

- clearly resale value is higher. I "create" the v42 at a price below peers in yachtworld so may get my money back eventually

- most biggest downside: 42 valiant is a heavy boat which is just that tad bigger to sail on your own making it really hard...

 

 

 

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From: RickC...@aol.com [mailto:RickC...@aol.com]
Sent: 07 July 2009 09:23
To: jo...@ets247.com; jpgai...@gmail.com
Cc: Passpor...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Passport] Re: Buying a Passport 40

---

Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.

[Louis Raphael]

Let us not forget the Passport 41 and 43.
These area basically Passport 40s with extended transoms.  The 41 has a sugar scoop extension, the 43 has a storage extension with a 4x4 hatch accessing the storage.
They area both Perry designs.
I believe the 42 is not a Perry design.

Louis Raphael
Buttermilk, P43

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[Donal Botkin]

View[+]Finder here,

One thing about Passport owners is that there is never a shortage of good advice and always a willingness to share one's experience. Here's mine: from 1999 through 2003 I sailed from San Francisco to New Zealand and back (many stops along the way) in a Passport 40. Over 20,000 sea miles in all and most of it single-handed. I'll try to steer clear of the points made by my fellow skippers and add my comments based on my personal experience in a situation that seems very close to what you envisage.

I also considered a Valiant at the start of my cruising days but ended up with the Passport largely for the reasons that have already been discussed: lower-cost and arguably a better looking boat. For reasons beyond the scope of this comment, I found there was considerable hidden storage in my Passport 40 with little structural modification necessary to access it. Hiding a surfboard is probably not an option, but extra sails and gear can be placed out of sight and still remain accessible. My Passport has the head forward with a Pullman berth, the Nanni diesel and a keel-stepped mast. During my voyage I had most of the problems mentioned by other skippers: leaky water tanks, rusty ballast, chainplate woes and the often mentioned problems with the rudder quadrant. All of these were easily repaired at a modest cost as I was able to do most of the work myself.

Your comment about "old school" navigation got my attention. For what it's worth, I started out with a full complement of paper charts but found them pretty much useless. I have a sextant onboard, can do sight reductions (okay I did one, just as proof of concept) and am generally familiar with navigation and pilotage. Here's my problem with paper charts: while you're on a passage in the open ocean what you really want to know is where the other boats are (the big ones that can crush you like a bug) as where you are is largely irrelevant. For close-in navigation, I found the paper charts to be largely out of date (often by a century) and of little help in navigating.

My primary tool for navigation while on passages was a GPS with the chart plotter keeping track of my position, intended course and velocity made good. As a backup, I used a low-power computer with chart software that displayed the electronic equivalent of paper charts. Radar was my primary watch-stander and operated pretty much all the time. I had it set up to come on every five minutes make a few scans and set off an alarm if it detected anything, such as a ship, that was likely to make things exciting. At night the radar was invaluable at detecting squalls with the alarm giving me enough time to get on deck and shorten sail.

When approaching the coastline, I supplemented the radar with an accurate depth sounder for navigation purposes. This was not so much as to avoid hitting the bottom, but rather to use the depth contours on the charts to confirm my position. The computer charts were printed "just in case".

Well that was 10 years ago: here's what I would do differently if I had to do it again today. The most important advance in navigation technology for the single-hand sailor is the AIS system whereby ships identify themselves and provide course and speed information automatically. By international convention this applies to virtually all of the large commercial vessels that are likely to run over a small sailboat without even knowing it. Frankly, I would not even think about an ocean passage, much less a circumnavigation, without having this capability. The incremental hardware cost for AIS ($500) is more than justified. Computer charting software now incorporates AIS information directly on the chart plot and will give you an early warning should you be in the vicinity of a ship. As the AIS is based on VHF radio, it's usable range is in excess of 25 miles, ample time to react.

Computers. While most cruisers opt for a laptop, my choice was a small size, low power computer that used standard size, easily accessible components. Why? Well, I augmented my cruising kitty by repairing other people's laptops along the way. Mostly this was because some component had failed, water had gotten in, or they had used the same computer for "checking e-mail" and had gotten a virus. These days there are numerous 12 V compatible micro PCs available. These can interface directly with a USB keyboard and mouse and a standard LCD display, all of which can be easily replaced practically anywhere. For those visits ashore, get yourself a nice MacBook for virus free e-mail (be careful just the same).

Finally, the water maker. 10 years ago there were two choices available to me: a small water maker that made about 8 gallons a day and cost about $1000 or a much larger unit that made 8 gallons an hour for about $5000. Fool that I was, I went with the cheaper unit. The problem I encountered was that in order to make the 8 gallons a day I had to run the unit at least 12 hours, often longer. A friend of mine who started out at about the same time as I, chose the higher capacity unit and never regretted it. He reported being able to exchange water for diesel in many cases. Also, if you have any dreams of finding love on the high seas, nothing is more enticing than the prospect of a freshwater shower. In fact I would consider trading that roller furling boom for a Spectra water maker!

Bon voyage!

Donal Botkin

View[+]Finder

[Jim Melton]

Donal,

At 7/7/2009 09:55 AM, Donal Botkin wrote:
>...

>For reasons beyond the scope of this comment, I found there was
>considerable hidden storage in my Passport 40 with little structural
>modification necessary to access it.

I would be delighted to hear more about your experiences in this area
-- from all of you, in fact. I fear that my wife and I are packrats
to the extreme and merely breaking that habit is going to be hard
enough. Shaking the "need" to keep one of everything that we might
possibly need during a long cruise, and two of really important
things, might be asking too much of an old dog ;^)

Learning how you found that considerable hidden storage would be very
helpful. Of course, it may be that I've already found what you
found, but the fact that we have the same layout (except that my mast
is deck-stepped and I have the Pathfinder diesel) bodes well for me
learning something new.

Thanks!
Jim

================
Jim Melton & Barbara Edelberg
"Dream SeQueL"
1982 Passport 40, hull# 18
"Cruising is just maintenance in exotic locations"

[Donal Botkin]

Hi,
Here's the short version. First, the layout for my passport 40: head
forward, Pullman berth, salon, navigation station starboard, galley
port, second cabin starboard aft, second fuel tank port side aft.
Starting with the head, remove all drawers and look behind for empty
space. In the sleeping compartment alone I found enough space for
"off-season" clothing in the area behind the drawers on the starboard
side. Using sturdy polyethylene Ziploc bags or larger commercial bags
is essential. My navigation station was another fertile area of hidden
storage. I used 3/8 inch plywood to create shelves behind the drawers
for storage of toolboxes and other heavy items. I did the same thing
in the galley area on the port side. These two areas created enough
storage to contain an entire dock cart of tools, etc.

On my Passport 40, there was a lot of wasted space between the side of
the hull and the fiberglass cockpit liner between the deck level and
the seat. On the port side this was accessible by cutting and opening
the rear of a sliding door compartment above my refrigerator. It's
hard to describe but it's a great place to keep rolled up paper
charts. Not the easiest access, but worth it.

On my boat there was a propane gas locker molded into the fiberglass
on the port side and a removable tub on the starboard side. There are
several alternatives. I removed the propane locker completely thus
opening the entire aft port section for sail storage. An alternative
would be to make a removable tub on that side for propane storage,
I'll leave that to your imagination.

That's about it. I'd be interested in hearing whether you have found
any of these on your own and what you're planning to do.
Donal

[Matt Sponer]

Hi Donal,

I like your storage ideas.

Another area is the mast closet. One can add a piano hinge and latches
to it, so that you easily open it to have a floor to ceiling cabinet
that's about 6 inches wide and deep. We used this for storing rolled
up charts and a few other long and skinny things.

Matt.

[Matt Sponer]

It took me wrecking three laptops in less than a year of active
passages before I 'discovered' Donal's system of tucking the computer
or laptop away somewhere safe and controlling it with a separate
keyboard and mouse. We didn't have a problem after that.

Also, some laptops have an optional 12 volt plug. This is a big deal
for us. It cuts the electrical consumption to a fraction of an amp. I
sometimes used the computer a lot on night watches to stay awake. A
long game of Civilization, The Sims, or designing the Ultimate Dinghy
(currently an Aluminum Proa) in Excel and CAD keeps me up better than
coffee.

For me, paper charts are more usable than electronic charts. I enjoy
unrolling a big chart on the salon table and figuring out where to go
next. It's easy to browse a chart, estimate distances and bearings
with your fingers and imagine passages and itineraries. Or once you're
there, to study it and look for anchorages that are not in the books.
The electronic screens are currently too small, so to do the same
things it takes a lot of zooming in and out and panning around to get
the whole picture. I think they will work better when we have screens
as large as a table.

I am also a big fan of traditional navigation. It's hard, a lot of
work, and it's scary at first, but... Well, there's nothing I've done
that feels more rewarding than traditional navigation on an epic
length passage. I don't do it on every passage, but on easy ones,
where there's nothing dangerous to hit... With all of the glowing
screens turned off, the absolute quiet of no autopilot, the warmth of
the paraffin lamps, and steering by the dim glow of the compass. And
after a few days, you somehow learn where the stars should be and
steer by them instead of the compass. And it feels so wacky to see the
bearings to the stars change as you make progress North or South, to
witness yourself moving around the roundness of the Earth. Then after
weeks watching for land to appear on the horizon and confirming it's
shape with the drawing on the chart, then tacking into a remote
anchorage and dropping the hook without having touched the engine. I
absolutely love that. It's like when you are becalmed and the wind
rolls across the sea toward you and the boat just starts moving. It
feels like magic. But it really only feels right in places like
Polynesia, where you aren't taking bearings off of bridges and
skyscrapers while approaching the harbor. In that case the spell is
already broken-- may as well motor the last hours at 8 knots, with the
computer charts on, watching reruns of Weeds.

But, of course, take this with a grain of salt, because I know I am
weird. Passages usually feel sacred to me, especially the long ones, a
sort of meditative opportunity to quiet my brain of all the
landlubbery noise, fall in love with everyone on board, and etc. The
VMG and ETA and TTG and all those numbers bug me. "You will arrive
Saturday at 8am. No, Sunday at 4pm. No, Tuesday at 3am." I just get
annoyed with looking at that, yet I can't stop myself from looking at
those numbers and getting sucked into landlubbery expectations, and so
turn the GPS off. Better to turn it back on tomorrow and see how much
progress we've made.

That said, I think one of the easiest ways to die while cruising is
running aground. I've heard the calls on the radio looking for people
who disappeared, and then were later found dead, crushed by the waves
on a remote reef that we passed, and have friends who survived a
grounding but lost their boat in a few minutes. They were lucky enough
to be able to jump down onto the reef and walk out of the surf kill
zone. In an hour their boat was a half hull. I worry about this, and
when close to land and using paper charts tend to double and triple
check every position I plot from the GPS, then back it up with the
radar and soundings. It's easy to transpose numbers or make a mistake,
even if you are not tired.

So I think chart plotters add a lot of safety, simply because there is
a little boat icon next to the drawing of the reef or rocks-- it would
be very hard to screw that up. Some of them can even beep at you if
you are about to do something really stupid. It's hard to beat that.

Oh, and AIS absolutely rocks. But I wouldn't rely on it, or radar,
near places like Indonesia. Where there are a lot of the wood Noah's
Arc type boats made in the jungle with a diesel engine, no electrical
system, and very minimally lit. Even the huge cargo ones didn't show
up on our radar until they are close enough to be in the wave clutter,
to yell at the people on board. Maybe the only steel, in the engines
and fuel tanks, is below the waterline. And maybe the new broadband
radars are magical and can detect wood. If I was singlehanding I think
I'd skip that area (where you head North through the narrow channels
after leaving Bali, towards Borneo and then West and North to
Singapore). It would be just too much stress to try and do that alone,
and you can see a lot of neat parts of Indonesia in the Coral Sea,
where there's not dense traffic of that kind.

[Phil Sherwood]

Tuning in a bit late to this discussion:

Many excellent points and suggestions have already appeared in
response to your first post. My $0.02 with respect to a Passport 40's
pros and cons:

Con:

Mild steel rudder cage and plate in the step at the foot of the mast.
Check 'em out carefully. I wound up shortening my mast by about 4"
and using a UHDP or Delrin block of equivalent hight into the mast
step. So far so good on the rudder cage.

Knees, some arguably of insufficient size and strength, some
compromised by long-term leaks through the chainplate openings.

Chain plates. The originals (and their bolts) were made of really
crappy steel, or at least mine were, and heated and bent into the
hockey-stick shape. Not good. Check them _very_ carefully for cracks
and crevice corrosion.

Chainplate leaks.

Expanding ballast.

Joinery creep (Michael M's phrase) and sticky floorboards. Annoying
but not the end of the world.

Pro:

Sails well, is pretty agile and maneuverable for its displacement.

Excellent engine access; easy engine R&R

Fundamentally very solid hull and deck construction.

Pretty easy to singlehand (I have the basic sloop rig, no inner
forestay, no fancy stuff).

Comfy and spacious to live aboard and cruise in, even for a guy who
stands 6' 6".

Lots of storage space (for me, anyway), including lots of less
obvious out-of-the-way places.

Pleasing to behold.

Valiants are also really nice boats, although I like the interior
space of a Passport better. Every boat has its warts and hairy
places, though. Every boat is different, and every boat is a
collection of compromises and trade-offs. Ya just gotta find the
balance that's right for you.

HTH; cheers,

Phil
s/v Cynosure (P40 #129)
Bahia de Caraquez

[svladycybil]

Further to Phil's comments:

I had a short visit and dinner aboard a Valiant 40. My forward
stateroom with a forward head gives me a wonderful living space as
compared to the vee berth I saw on the Valiant. Don't know if all
Valiants have the same arrangement.

The Passport 40 has a large galley area. I don't recall the Valiant to
be that large.

The wide stern of the Passort yields a roomy cockpit and allows for
multiple solar panels to be mounted over the bimini. My solar panels
and wind generator power my fridge, separate freezer and my water
maker with the need to constantly run the engine. I run the engine
about twice a week. If it's cloudy I need to run more often.

I rebuilt the stern ladder and it is now a pleasure to use. No more
reverse angle. The Valiant would probably need a removable side
ladder.

The Passport stern appears to me to be a better situation for mounting
davits.

The storage space under the Passport cockpit is probably much larger
than on a Valiant.

I have been living aboard for seven years mainly with one or two on
board for extended periods and the Passport has been an excellent
choice.

And re the chain plate issue. IMO although the knees are not well
designed the overriding problem appears to be the leakage of water
into the top of the knee.
The knee is a plywood triangle covered in F/G except at the top. The
teak deck and the deck itself need to be rebuilt so that the chain
plates can be properly sealed. In addition to rebuilding my knees I
added, essentially, some standing rigging glassed into the hull at
it's lower point.

Drill a hole in the lower edge of the knee. A fair quantity of water
drained out of my knee. Fresh water rots the plywood. It becomes soft
and the knee begins to loose its strength.

Dick
s/v Lady Cybil
lying Grenada, WI