Buying a 1981 Passport 42

[Zi Vu]

Hi, we're looking into buying a 1981 Passport 42 with a 2000 Yanmar 4HF 55hp with 2000 hours. We're hoping to take her offshore (after proper refit). What should we pay attention to when we view and survey her? A few things that we have noted:

- tanks accessibility

- teak deck condition/repairability

Thank you!

[Jeremy Dinsel]

There's so much more to add to that list... I don't think I can even begin to write up a full list (though I added some items).

Do you have offshore experience yet? I hope my answers are in line with what you're looking for... I think some of what a boat requires for offshore access is individual and crew training. For example, the Safety at Sea course offered in person or online is a great starting point. In the Seattle area, we have a group that helps educate captains and their crew for taking what we call the "Big Left." Check out the seminars that the https://cohohoho.com/events/ (CoHo Hoho) group offers (named as a play on the Baja Haha).

As for the survey in the boat:

• What will you need to replace to be offshore ready?
• How are the batteries and the electrical system ... can you be away from the dock for weeks?
• What state is the freshwater system in?
• Do you have enough fresh water? Is there a water maker? Does it work? Is it in good condition?
• Do you have quality electrical and manual water pumps?
• Do you have a seawater intake to help with reducing freshwater use (as in pre-washing dishes)?
• Is the gallery up to your requirements? 
• Is the fridge/compressor system what you want for offshore? What age is it?
• What is the state of the rigging? Assume you'll replace it all (except the mast and boom) if it hasn't been done recently -- get the receipts from the seller to see what work was done, by who, when, and with what
• How are the chainplates? You'll likely want to replace all of these ... with the exception that the forestay and backstay chainplates are bedded in fiberglass
• How's your rudder and steering?
• What age are the electronics and autopilot
• What offshore gear does the boat come with?
• If it has a life raft, is it new or needs a test or replacement?
• How do the knees look?
• What's in the bilge?
• Can you readily get spare parts for all of the systems?

I bet that many more people can add to this list!

There are a lot of good offshore books, too. Check out Beth Leonard's Voyager's Handbook. Nigel Calder's shakedown cruise is a fun read. He admits to a lot of mistakes that he's clearly learned from.

Good luck with the survey! I hope you can achieve your goals. 

-j

S/V WhaleShadow, Passport 40

[Joshua Romme]

We recently purchased our Passport 42 last summer so happy to add on some nuggets of wisdom.

Definitely everything Jeremy mentioned...also 

• Chainplates were orginally fiberglassed in on Passport 42's so if no one has addressed those then that is a pricey refit job that you are going to want to take care of.  Take a look at S/V Boundless blog for how they took care of it - https://sailboundless.com/2020/12/05/chainplates-replacement-project/
• Electrical wiring - #1 cause of fire on boats; has it been updated professionally, well kept and organized
• Make sure to investigate age and condition of all systems/parts to determine how well maintained the overall boat is
• Make sure to get understanding from broker/owner on what/when different major items/systems have been upgrade/replaced

-Josh

S/V Scheherazade, Passport 42 Hull #36

[Zi Vu]

Thank you both so much! We don't have yet any offshore experience so really appreciate the pointers on groups and books. 

I will compile a list with the items you have suggested. The boat is not prepared for offshore right now so if the price is right, we don't mind putting in the offshore equipments ourselves. Curious if you have a ballpark budget number on how much each of these projects would be (we're the frugal type, but also safety-focus):

- offshore equipments (electronics, life raft, windvane, autopilot)

- chainplates replacement

- standing rigging replacement, with or without mast replacement

- running rigging replacement

It currently have a diesel stove installed athwartship with a chimney. I wonder if that would be safe offshore? I feel like I'd grab it at the wrong moment...

I was watching S/V Boundless on Youtube but will also check their blog out. Thanks again!

[Joshua Romme]

It's hard to say price wise with inflation and supply chains these days.  But expect that labor costs are one of the biggest things and standard marine industry rates are going to $130/hr to $150/hr minimum.  So things get expensive real quick, expect to price things out in the $1000's.  Not sure how much experience you have with marine industry right now...but getting a hold of vendors and getting work scheduled takes months in advance...everyone in the marine industry is flat out booked way out with existing work.  Just FYI so you know what to expect when trying to get quotes/estimates.

Don't quote me on these prices but think of them as maybe ballparkish.  We haven't had to replace/upgrade much on our boat cause it already had what we needed, but previous owner kept all invoices/receipts so have an idea of pre-covid pricing (hey if I'm wrong and it ends up being cheaper then all the better!)  We have added a couple things and had some maintenance done by boatyard so somewhat familiar with costs.  This would be for full cost of brand new materials and labor

• Chainplates - $15k - $30k probably on the higher end
• Life raft w/ outboard - $10k plus
• New electronics upgrade - $10k plus (probably more if you need full suite of latest and greatest everything: i.e. radar, AIS, chartplotter, etc)
• Standing rigging - not sure on this one but probably closer to $10k if you include pulling mast and replacing everything, unless going with synthetic rigging.  W/ mast replacement then easily $20k+
• Running rigging...depends on how many lines....mostly will cost you in labor for rigger to do the work.

Hope this is at least somewhat useful info....and again just disclaimer we haven't had to do all this with our boat so just rough numbers, and if anyone else have more accurate numbers then feel free to correct me.  Obviously if you are handy and don't mind figuring things out on your own then those costs can come down for not having to pay for labor.

- Josh

S/V Scheherazade, Passport 42 Hull #36

[psherwood]

Many excellent points below in the preceding posts. I don't know what
skills and experience you already have but would also suggest you
answer, if you haven't already, a few questions for yourselves:

In what part(s) of the world do you want to cruise and sail? Which
coasts, archipelagos, and oceans? Primarily between which latitudes?

What type of sailing and cruising do you want to do? Local and regional
trips around a bay or out to some nearby islands, or up and down the
nearby coast, leaving from and returning to a home base? Weekend trips
and maybe longer, seasonal 1- or 2-week (or month) trips? Extended
long-range cruising? A multi-year circumnavigation? Selling everything
on land and heading to sea forever?

What are your preferences for equipment and boat accommodations? For
example, do you favor having a wind vane or an autopilot? A
comprehensive, integrated navigation and communications setup, or a
couple of radios, an iPad, and a hand-held GPS? A refrigerator and
freezer, or just a refrigerator? A watermaker? Type and size of dinghy?
And so on.

In what areas do you feel you are already at least competent, and where
could you use more training/experience? Consider at least a basic
understanding of your boat's different systems (sail and rigging,
mechanical propulsion, electricity, plumbing, etc.); general principles
of weather and weather patterns; piloting and navigation; seamanship
(including bad-weather sailing). Are you a pretty hands-on MacGyver
fix-it kind of person, with plenty of tools on board? Or not so much? If
the latter, how will you handle problems that will arise? There's no end
to learning, of course, but your feeling confident that you have a solid
base of at least introductory know-how would be a great place to be.

I had Steve Dashew's "Practical Seamanship" and Nigel Calder's
"Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual" on board, as well as
various much less encyclopedic books about weather, boat electrical
systems, etc. Both were great resources, the latter more frequently
consulted than the former, but each valuable.

Your answers to the questions above will help you figure out
specifically what equipment you want. From there, figure out for each
piece of gear what you consider superior, adequate, and not acceptable
(functionality, complexity, maintainability, cost, brands) and what you
can afford or want to spend on it.

Many people have asked how much it costs to go cruising. The answer
invariably is, "Everything you have." I've met plenty of cruisers who
were happy, safe, and comfortable in the most minimalist of setups, and
others who required pretty much every amenity a house would have as well
as all the latest and greatest electronics and gear and gizmos. In
general, I'd go for simplicity over complexity whenever possible. But,
diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks...

Again, without knowing how much sailing you've done, I'd suggest
building up to making long-range blue-water passages. Start with
overnighters and short trips in your area, and build from there,
extending your range as you gain familiarity with your boat and how to
handle it and anchor it in different situations, and with the rhythms
and requirements of passagemaking.

This group is a wonderful resource. You might also consider (depending
on where you intend to be hanging out) The Southbound Group (Pacific
coast of North and Central America), Pacific Puddle Jump (South Pacific
oriented), Cruisers Network Online (Caribbean oriented). All are
available through groups.io. There are countless other relevant groups
and forums on line as well.

You might also take a look at the US Power Squadron offerings. I took
classes in seamanship, piloting, and navigation (excluding celestial
nav, which almost nobody does any more anyway), and they stood me in
great stead for decades. Also, see if any seminars or workshops are
available to you. A long time ago I attended John and Amanda Neal's
workshop on cruising and passagemaking. It wasn't the cheapest weekend I
ever had, but the workshop provided a wealth of information and guidance
and greatly helped me advance my thinking about how I wanted to go about
setting up my boat and approach blue water. I don't think John and
Amanda are offering the seminars any more, but surely there are other
comparable offerings out there. Sometimes there are helpful
presentations at boat shows (and sometimes you can get on-the-spot
discounts on gear as well).

To some of your more specific questions: I'd worry about having an
opening in the deck when running a diesel heater under way except in the
flattest of conditions. At least on my boat, the charley noble (chimney)
would be gone in short order and I'd have an astonishing amount of water
coming down in through the opening. Yeah, it can get cold sometimes. As
with backpacking, have the non-cotton clothing you need: a good base
layer, a couple of middle layers, an outer layer, and good gloves and
boots. Don't skimp on foul-weather gear; get good, warm stuff even
though it's expensive. You'll be glad you did.

I think people typically opt for either a windvane _or_ an autopilot,
but not both. Each has its pros and cons. Either will cost at least in
the neighborhood of $5K, I think.

Running rigging: cost will depend on the types of line, diameters, and
lengths. You can get the latest, grooviest high-tech, high-performance
stuff, or you could go with garden-variety double braid. For starters,
here's an on-line calculator:
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/cu/detail-rrc.php.

At the other extreme, you could really get down in the weeds and figure
sail area and loading, look up the safe working load for each line, then
choose among the many products available. Then buy the length needed for
the specific application. Here's one (of many) guide for figuring
lengths:
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/208323/Lengths-of-Sheets-and-Halyards.
You'll need to know your boat's I, J, P, and E, of course. Here's one
source for that: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/passport-42

This is by no means comprehensive, just a few thoughts thrown out there
for you. Hope they help a little bit.

Phil
ex Cynosure, Passport 40

On Thu 6/9/22 22:04, Zi Vu wrote:
> Thank you both so much! We don't have yet any offshore experience so
> really appreciate the pointers on groups and books.
>
> I will compile a list with the items you have suggested. The boat is not
> prepared for offshore right now so if the price is right, we don't mind
> putting in the offshore equipments ourselves. Curious if you have a
> ballpark budget number on how much each of these projects would be
> (we're the frugal type, but also safety-focus):
>
> - offshore equipments (electronics, life raft, windvane, autopilot)
> - chainplates replacement
> - standing rigging replacement, with or without mast replacement
> - running rigging replacement
>
> It currently have a diesel stove installed athwartship with a chimney. I
> wonder if that would be safe offshore? I feel like I'd grab it at the
> wrong moment...
>
> I was watching S/V Boundless on Youtube but will also check their blog
> out. Thanks again!
>
> On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 12:00:57 PM UTC-7 jro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> We recently purchased our Passport 42 last summer so happy to add on
> some nuggets of wisdom.
>
> Definitely everything Jeremy mentioned...also
>

> * Chainplates were orginally fiberglassed in on Passport 42's so

> if no one has addressed those then that is a pricey refit job
> that you are going to want to take care of.  Take a look at S/V
> Boundless blog for how they took care of it -
> https://sailboundless.com/2020/12/05/chainplates-replacement-project/

> <https://sailboundless.com/2020/12/05/chainplates-replacement-project/>
> * Electrical wiring - #1 cause of fire on boats; has it been

> updated professionally, well kept and organized

> * Make sure to investigate age and condition of all systems/parts

> to determine how well maintained the overall boat is

> * Make sure to get understanding from broker/owner on what/when

> different major items/systems have been upgrade/replaced
>
> -Josh
> S/V Scheherazade, Passport 42 Hull #36
>
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 12:39:42 PM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> There's so much more to add to that list... I don't think I can
> even begin to write up a full list (though I added some items).
>
> Do you have offshore experience yet? I hope my answers are in
> line with what you're looking for... I think some of what a boat
> requires for offshore access is individual and crew training.
> For example, the Safety at Sea course offered in person or
> online is a great starting point. In the Seattle area, we have a
> group that helps educate captains and their crew for taking what
> we call the "Big Left." Check out the seminars that the

> https://cohohoho.com/events/ <https://cohohoho.com/events/>

> (CoHo Hoho) group offers (named as a play on the Baja Haha).
>
> As for the survey in the boat:
>

> * What will you need to replace to be offshore ready?
> * How are the batteries and the electrical system ... can you

> be away from the dock for weeks?

> * What state is the freshwater system in?
> * Do you have enough fresh water? Is there a water maker? Does

> it work? Is it in good condition?

> * Do you have quality electrical and manual water pumps?
> * Do you have a seawater intake to help with reducing

> freshwater use (as in pre-washing dishes)?

> * Is the gallery up to your requirements?
> * Is the fridge/compressor system what you want for offshore?
> What age is it?
> * What is the state of the rigging? Assume you'll replace it

> all (except the mast and boom) if it hasn't been done
> recently -- get the receipts from the seller to see what
> work was done, by who, when, and with what

> * How are the chainplates? You'll likely want to replace all

> of these ... with the exception that the forestay and
> backstay chainplates are bedded in fiberglass

> * How's your rudder and steering?
> * What age are the electronics and autopilot
> * What offshore gear does the boat come with?
> * If it has a life raft, is it new or needs a test or replacement?
> * How do the knees look?
> * What's in the bilge?
> * Can you readily get spare parts for all of the systems?

>
> I bet that many more people can add to this list!
>
> There are a lot of good offshore books, too. Check out Beth
> Leonard's Voyager's Handbook. Nigel Calder's shakedown cruise is
> a fun read. He admits to a lot of mistakes that he's clearly
> learned from.
>
> Good luck with the survey! I hope you can achieve your goals.
>
> -j
> S/V WhaleShadow, Passport 40
>
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 8:37:13 AM UTC-7 hung...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Hi, we're looking into buying a 1981 Passport 42 with a 2000
> Yanmar 4HF 55hp with 2000 hours. We're hoping to take her
> offshore (after proper refit). What should we pay attention
> to when we view and survey her? A few things that we have noted:
>
> - tanks accessibility
> - teak deck condition/repairability
>
> Thank you!
>

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[Zi Vu]

Thank you all so much for the valuable insights and guidance. I realize now that it's silly to ask for help without stating our plans and experience. We race our 27 footer regularly in protected harbour and want to work our way up to living on a boat, sail from Pacific Northwest down to Mexico and cross the Pacific to New Zealand in 2 years. We appreciate simplicity and being minimalist, but safety is also top of mind.

On another note, the boat is sold (not to us, sadly!). The information shared here is invaluable nonetheless. We will keep reading (we have many books mentioned in this thread), learning and looking for our next boat.

Much appreciated!

[Jeremy Dinsel]

Keep your search active. I’ve seen a few Passports in offer recently. It’s a great boat and there are many of us in the Pacific Northwest. I hope our paths cross. 

Good luck in your search!

-j

On Jun 13, 2022, at 08:38, Zi Vu <hung...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you all so much for the valuable insights and guidance. I realize now that it's silly to ask for help without stating our plans and experience. We race our 27 footer regularly in protected harbour and want to work our way up to living on a boat, sail from Pacific Northwest down to Mexico and cross the Pacific to New Zealand in 2 years. We appreciate simplicity and being minimalist, but safety is also top of mind.

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