Looking for 222 transverter
Matt S
Anthony Wyatt
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Edward R Cole
The Ukrainian model is smaller and cheaper. But the Q5/DEMI is well-built and will last for a long time. I had one before I decided a 222 FM transceiver was sufficient and traded my L222-28. I have the 144, 432, 1296, 3400, and 10-GHz DEMI transverters (the 10-GHz unit was bought in 1999).
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 05:21 PM 6/22/2020, Anthony Wyatt wrote:
Because I am cheap... I just ordered this to check it out. Came recommended by a local ham. I have not received mine yet so I can't speak for it.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/222-to-28-MHz-ASSEMBLED-TRANSVERTER-1-25meters-222mhz-220-VHF-UHF-Ham-Radio/222109347189?epid=852943499&hash=item33b6bfad75:g:FpwAAOSwShJXLa3Q
It was interesting to me because of price. But I already have a 10m radio. I have not figured what I want to do for antennas yet. I am also interested in what others have to say.
Anthony -kf7ywp
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:16 PM Matt S < threeey...@gmail.com> wrote:
- All,
- Â I am starting to get a 222 transverter in the near future, and am curious if anyone has or knows of a used one for sale?
-  On the other hand I  have been looking at the Q5/DEMI ones and think that's the way to go for a new one? Any reason IÂ
- should be looking elsewhere?
- Thanks!
- Â Â Matthew
- Â Â KC7OOY
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73, Ed - KL7UW
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Gregory Winters
Hopefully the link doesn't get cut off here, but if so, go to NMVHF.org and search for the article titled 'Ukranian Transverter Transmit Performance'.
From what I've read, they underperform and cannot be expected to put out even half their rated wattage without generating intolerable distortion and other gremlins. That being said, some are driven to about 40-50% og tgeir rated output and seem fine. I don't understand the discrepancies in these except to think there are newer build versions, bad parts, or something else afoot.
For getting on 223.5FM or a local repeater maybe that isn't such a problem. For running FT8 on 222, maybe it is moreso due to LO drift and a jagged-y signal. I haven't seen an article on that yet, looking at these ones specifically. If I just wanted to have a rig capable on-band, I would go with a Kenwood or Yaesu HT, or the Alinco DR-235. Since the last all-mode 1.25 rig came out forever ago, either people are running old rigs, transverters, or just FM-only equipment.
Ultimately I acquired a quite dated Down East Microwave 222 unit probably from the mid to late 80s. It has a 10mW max drive, and if not for an IC-7600 with an adjustable transverter port, I'd be running attenuators to get it not to blow up. Its been decent for SSB and FM. I haven't tried it on digital. Its original heat sink is smaller than the DEMI/Q5 type. With a Bird slug it was very linear and did not need even 6mW for its full rated output. I believe we saw almost 30w at 8mW but I dialed it back due to no fan and a smallish heatsink. For FM into a beam that was as good as the IC-375A we were testing it against, and the 7600 has superior filtering. And the transverter has a decent NF and huge receive gain.
If I heatsinked it better I'd feel confident running it into a Larcan. If I also replaced the LO with a GPSDO I'd give it a shot on (someone elses) EME setup.
If you go the Ukraine transverter route, note there are two different vendors on Ebay (for example). I don't know anything about the difference though one warns about 'fake transverters' on there. They look quite similar and both claim to be from Ukraine.
Also note the usable IF range of the transverter in the description. There are several different ones. If it says 28-30MHz for 220-222, or 26-28MHz for 222-224, thats what the seller means. I asked about that specifically before I got my DEMI. While we colloquially refer to 1.25m as 222, some transverters may not get you 223, some will, etc. If I only wantrd to hit a repeater I would run a HT into a decent antenna, if even that was needed.
Also, with these be prepared to get the attenuator board (unless your rig has a transverter port), but also adjust drive levels in your IF rig as well with the trimmer switch on the attenuator board. Some of these claim to tolerate up to 10 watts drive, but there is no reason to overdrive it. It will not output more on 1.25m between the minimum IF drive level for full output on the transverter. More than that amount and the rest is just more heat, not more watts on 222.
To be able to run 222 through the upper end of 225, for some repeaters, your IF rig will either need to go below 28MHz or above 30MHz, depending on the one you choose. I found even with a MARS mod, my originally planned IF rig had no ability above 30MHz, so I couldn't run SSB and tap local repeaters. Pay close attention to its required IF range. Some may do exactly what you want.
I've heard no gripes about the assembled ones, as far as assembly quality goes. I've seen several and its not beyond the home builder but the instructions aren't terrific. Its mostly just connecting jumpers amd connectors, no thru-hole or SMT. My DEMI unit is old enough to be a thru-hole kit.
I like my old DEMI unit. IMO, I wouldn't shell out the ransom for a new DEMI/Q5 unit unless I was into serious weak signal stuff like tropo or EME. In contests there are some who have all-mode 1.25m capability, but its surprisingly cheap for a HT on a beam to do something similar. It appears DEMI has sort of slumped out of the transverter market and allowed a subcontractor to build the low(er) band stuff at a huge premium to what it was even 4 years ago. A DEMI 222 kit now would be probably all SMT, if they still sell the 222 transverter in kit form.
Top of the line stuff now can be GPS locked now, and doesn't require synthesized weak signal external sources to still generate PPM accuracy. Noise Figures are better. The only problem is that 1.25m is not a worldwide band, so DB6NT/Kuhne and SG Labs makes no equipment for it. And thats one reason Q5 can charge continue to charge mint for it. And why a IC-375A or FT-736R (with a 222 module) never goes down in price.
Not bashing the Ukraine ones or the DEMI ones. I have not personally used or been around a Q5 version. But I have an older DEMI and I have been around and talked with hams with the Ukrainian ones. Some were happy but probably juat wanted to hit a local repeater. Some were grouchy and 'fixed' theirs to be an exciter for an amp on SSB.
Microwave Modules also built 222 equipment, but its pushing mid-80s as well and they almost never have the difficult to find power cable. They show up on Ebay too, but its usually unknown if they even turn on.
Hope this helps!
73 de Greg, K3RW
Edward R Cole
First off, DEMI came out with a new line of transverters about
2010. I bought a 1296-28 (25w) transverter with A32 PLL LO board
primarily to do eme. It has served well in that. 28-30 MHz covers
1296-1298 MHz but I only use 1296.000-1296.100+. It will not do FM
on 1294.50 unless you change the LO frequency.
Next I contracted DEMI to build a custom-made dual Rx transverter for
144-MHz (Originally with 50w which I ran too hard on JT65 and
replaced with a 25w module).
These later transverters were designed with surface-mount
construction which made them more reliable (and cheaper to
make). They were termed the L-series (L144-28, L222-28,
etc.). About that time DEMI relocated from NJ to FL and got behind
on orders (big time). That opened an opportunity for an enterprising
person to step in and build kits for sale. I was the guy who did
that. I sold the assembled kits for the same price DEMI was charging
but with only 30-day delivery (arrival at customer). My point is I
became very familiar with their product.
The L-series sold for about $500, assembled. It has two power drive
options (250mw to 10w or 10mw to 200mw). All have fan-cooled
heat-sinks to handle digital mode duty cycles. Also had integrated
sequencer for controlling preamps, relays, and power amps. From what
I have seen Q5 took over production of the DEMI 50-432 MHz
transverter line. Multi-band transverter are the new rage! Both
DEMI and Q5 have them.
Most HF radios are limited to 28-30 MHz (at max) so for 222 you get
222-224 MHz which might not cover many repeater output
frequencies. A solution is to add the digiLO which may have two LO
ranges to handle that. The digiLO adds $99 to your total. They are
not hard to install (basic wiring/soldering).
I had a couple of the older DEMI designs and they are not in the same
class with the L-series. True might have been easier doing thru-hole
assembly. I would not buy one used (unless very cheap).
Where I live, there is little CW/SSB on 222; most all just run FM. I
bought a Bridgecom BC220 (30w) transceiver and sold my DEMI
transverter to someone in pnwvhfs.
My Ukrainian transverter was cheap (in all definitions). So probably
will get a dusty shelf with other hairbrain projects!
73, Ed - KL7UW
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Matt S
Steve
The past few weeks have seen some unusually good long haul propagation on 6m
from the PNW and the VE7 region. Although the weak-signal capability of FT8
has made it possible for many smaller stations to take advantage of these
openings, it also can create problems for other users of the band when used
inappropriately. In regions of dense population, even small stations can
create high signal levels, often making it impossible for their neighbours
to hear weak signals. This is not deliberately-caused QRM but arises when
some operators operate ‘against the flow’ and transmit on the opposite
sequence to everyone else in the local area.
I would urge new users of the ‘magic’ band, or to the FT8 mode, to first
listen carefully for a few minutes, before beginning operation, to determine
what the majority of stations in their local region are using for
sequencing. If they are ‘tx 1st’ then your choice of ‘tx 2nd’ will likely
cause hearing difficulty for many others who are listening at that time.
Although there are no strict ‘rules’, there has been a fairly successful and
well-practiced protocol, that the ‘easternmost’ station transmits on ‘1st’
while the ‘western end’ goes 2nd’. This is why you will hear most east coast
stations in the morning hours transmitting ‘2nd’, as they are looking for
Europeans to their east, who are transmitting ‘1st’. By the same token, you
will also hear western stations, looking for Europe, transmitting on ‘2nd’.
This usually reverses later in the day when signals from Asia become a
possibility, and all North Americans become ‘westernmost’ and will transmit
on the ‘1st’ sequence ... unlike the morning. I can easily see how newcomers
to the band could become confused, when they hear both sequences being used!
The best thing, once again, is to listen carefully first and then ‘go with
the flow’.
OK... so you are not interested in EU or Asia? It would still be best
operating practice and cause less local interference by using the same
sequencing as most others in your region in consideration of other users.
Yesterday I saw a prime example of exactly what not to do, in too many
respects. I made a post on the ON4 6m page that VE1SKY in NS was decoding
here, mainly to alert others in the region that European signals might be
next as the VE1s are often good indicators that this path is coming.
In less than a minute, an S9+ local began calling ‘CQ NS’ on the exact
opposite sequence of all others ... effectively blocking the waterfall and
any further hope of hearing weak EU signals. I’m sorry, but this is just bad
operating, with almost zero chance of success.
Just like working DX on CW or on phone, the best way still is to ‘listen,
listen and listen some more’. I still believe that even on FT8, you will
work FAR more DX by listening and pouncing at the right time, than by
calling CQ.
I see several local stations everyday, calling endless CQs, often for over
60 minutes straight and often with many replies, only to go unnoticed.
Unfortunately, with FT8, one can check ‘work 1st’, go away, and return later
to see who they might have ‘worked’. Perhaps this is what these operators
are doing but they should understand that they are also creating non-stop
QRM for those that chose to listen carefully to the band under crowded local
conditions.
With a little pre-attention and consideration for your neighbours, everyone
can and should be able to enjoy 6m FT8 with few problems.
These are just of my thoughts on how to best operate for maximum success and
consideration for other band-users. Hopefully my comments have not offended
anyone, that was not my attention.
Now, let the magic continue!
Steve 73
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VE7PS
Microwave Modules did not build 220/222 Mhz transverters, despite
efforts to get them to do so. Hans Peters, VE3CRU, now SK, originally
started building 220 Mhz transverters from completed MMT 144
transverters, after stripping out the 2m parts and replacing them with
220 Mhz parts. I bought one of those about 1979, replacing my homebrew
6360 mixer/amp tramsverter I built way back in early 1973. Eventually
Hans was able to convince MM to send him just the stripped down 2m
xverters and he would build them up as 220 Mhz units from scratch. I
recall it took much effort on Hans' part to convince them it was
worthwhile to do so. I wish I knew how many MMt-220's Hans built and
sold but it would easily number in the several 100's.
I used that xverter all during the 220 WAS chase in the early '80's and
never had a problem with it. It was eventually sold in the late '80's
when I came across a very rare SSB Electronics LT-222s for sale. By
that time I had the LT-6, LT2 and LT-70 to go with it, so it made sense
to me...sort of.
These days the MMT-220 would need some kind of replacement for the LO to
work any digital stuff, as do the LT's. One of my "rountuit's". But if
found, an MMT-220 would still make a fine way to get on the band and I
am guessing could be had for a song.
73
Peter
VE7PS
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STEVE MCDONALD
“This usually reverses later in the day when signals from Asia become a possibility, and all North Americans become ‘westernmost’ and will transmit on the ‘1st’ sequence ... unlike the morning.”
Should be: “and all North Americans become ‘easternmost’ and ...”
Steve 73