MSK Meteor Scatter Questions

[Scott Burgess]

Greetings, I finally made my first two meteor scatter QSO's this morning using a 6m Sal Moxon at 25ft pointed east running 75w.  So after watching several YouTube videos I still have a few questions

Question 1 - Everything I've read states to point your antenna east, almost makes sense since I live in DN13 near Boise and there are more hams east of me then west.  However, if I see a station west of me calling CQ do I need to rotate my antenna?  Do I need to change my transmit sequence?

Question 2 - Does anyone use split on m MSK?  During contests?

Question 3 - During a VHF contest the ARRL paper suggests replacing signal reports with grid squares in the exchange since signal reports are not required but grid squares are.  Is that what this group does during a contest?

At the point my plan is to acquire another Sal 6m Moxon and run them stacked facing east, and purchasing a 3 or 4 element Yagi for portable ops

Thx and 73  W7IMC Scott DN13 Nampa ID

[cwfinge...@gmail.com]

Scott,

Question 1.  I would think it depends on where the meteor is. You are after all reflecting off the ionized material of the meteor. If it's East then I would point the antenna East.  

Maybe one of our hams that does Astronomy can comment here. As I recall meteors are more violently burnt up in the atmosphere that is in the leading edge of the rotation of the Earth. I think that would be early morning?

As for the other questions I will let those who know more than I about those subjects.

Bill N7EU

[ba...@k7bwh.com]

Hi Scott, the meteor scatter mode is pretty cool, and millions of meteors arrive every day and night. They are really just grains of interstellar sand particles.

1. Pointing direction: You should point in whatever direction you’d like to make a contact. The basic idea is that both parties should point at some shared volume in the sky and wait for meteors to pass through it. The WSJT panel can suggest the most likely direction for any given target grid square. Enter the target grid into “DX Grid” and it will suggest two directions: Az (azimuth) and A (alternate). I start by pointing at the “Az” direction for awhile and then turn to “A” direction if nothing is heard for a five or ten minutes. The two directions are seldom (never?) more than 10 or 15 degrees apart. If you have a Moxon then pointing direction is not critical; a Moxon beamwidth is quite wide, perhaps 90 degrees. I think it would be crazy to point east if you want to work someone south of you.
   1a. Yes, if you see a station west of you calling CQ then turning the antenna should help.
   1b. If you see a CQ on a certain sequence, you’ll need to reply on the opposite sequence. The long-standing convention of “westernmost station is even sequence” is designed to help make random contacts. If you’re in a chat room then you can use any sequence you agree on. Sometimes I will transmit on the ‘wrong’ sequence to avoid interference from a local station who is also on the ’wrong’ sequence.
   1c. Rovers usually stay on ‘even’ sequence to make him easier to find while he turns the antenna in any direction. However, the rover makes his own rules. If we want to work him, our job is to know his rules and follow them.
2. Nobody uses ‘split’ on meteor scatter, in my experience. Practically everyone uses the standard frequency and audio 1500 Hz. There is lower chance of interference here; this mode isn’t crowded. Since different people see different meteors, one ping is seldom shared. The distance is limited to about 1200 miles which also reduces interference from more distant stations. Why 1200 miles? Because that’s as far apart as you can get and both are still able to see the same little piece of sky.
3. During VHF contests, everyone uses ‘contest mode’ and will exchange grid squares instead of signal reports. In addition, contest mode can use one less cycle than non-contest mode, which saves time. (Personally, I think everyone should send grid squares all the time for everything because it’s faster and grids are more useful than funny little numbers, but that’s just me.)
4. Stacked moxons are good; they can improve your signal strength by almost 3 dB. However, be aware that stacking doesn’t change the beam width – it will still be about the same width as a single moxon. What it does is add another radiator AND lower the take-off angle of radiation. A low take-off angle will give you greater distances for both meteors and E-skip; this is really good for antennas on a short mast.
5. Early morning has the fastest meteors. Generally 4 am to 10 am local is the best time. However, meteors arrive 24 hours a day and it’s always worth a try (for stations closer than 1200 miles) when other modes aren’t working.
6. The specific days with meteor showers are favorable times. In reality, the planet is sweeping through the sand particle trail leftover from some comet that passed through the Earth’s orbit. But again, millions of meteors are arriving every day at all times so don’t wait for meteor showers. Personally, I seldom see a big improvement during showers.
7. Fun fact: If you live within 50 miles of an airport, meteor scatter mode works great with airplane reflections. Normally this mode can’t make contacts at less than 400 miles. But I live 20 miles from SeaTac and routinely work into BC when planes come by. It makes a distinctive pattern in the Fast Graph with a solid fluttering signal for a minute or more.
8. There’s more info in a presentation I wrote a couple years ago for the Issaquah WA club: https://www.w7bi.com/events/meteor-scatter-program-jan-2020    Look for charts of meteors by time-of-day and by month-of-year.

Have fun!

Barry K7BWH

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[Lance Collister, W7GJ]

Great summary, Barry!

On 7/29/2024 03:42:32, ba...@k7bwh.com wrote:
>
> Hi Scott, the meteor scatter mode is pretty cool, and millions of meteors arrive
> every day and night. They are really just grains of interstellar sand particles.
>

> 1. Pointing direction: You should point in whatever direction you’d like to make a

> contact. The basic idea is that both parties should point at some shared volume
> in the sky and wait for meteors to pass through it. The WSJT panel can suggest
> the most likely direction for any given target grid square. Enter the target
> grid into “DX Grid” and it will suggest two directions: Az (azimuth) and A
> (alternate). I start by pointing at the “Az” direction for awhile and then turn
> to “A” direction if nothing is heard for a five or ten minutes. The two
> directions are seldom (never?) more than 10 or 15 degrees apart. If you have a
> Moxon then pointing direction is not critical; a Moxon beamwidth is quite wide,
> perhaps 90 degrees. I think it would be crazy to point east if you want to work
> someone south of you.
> 1a. Yes, if you see a station west of you calling CQ then turning the antenna
> should help.
> 1b. If you see a CQ on a certain sequence, you’ll need to reply on the opposite
> sequence. The long-standing convention of “westernmost station is even
> sequence” is designed to help make random contacts. If you’re in a chat room
> then you can use any sequence you agree on. Sometimes I will transmit on the
> ‘wrong’ sequence to avoid interference from a local station who is also on the
> ’wrong’ sequence.
> 1c. Rovers usually stay on ‘even’ sequence to make him easier to find while he
> turns the antenna in any direction. However, the rover makes his own rules. If
> we want to work him, our job is to know his rules and follow them.

> 2. Nobody uses ‘split’ on meteor scatter, in my experience. Practically everyone

> uses the standard frequency and audio 1500 Hz. There is lower chance of
> interference here; this mode isn’t crowded. Since different people see
> different meteors, one ping is seldom shared. The distance is limited to about
> 1200 miles which also reduces interference from more distant stations. Why 1200
> miles? Because that’s as far apart as you can get and both are still able to
> see the same little piece of sky.

> 3. During VHF contests, everyone uses ‘contest mode’ and will exchange grid

> squares instead of signal reports. In addition, contest mode can use one less
> cycle than non-contest mode, which saves time. (Personally, I think everyone
> should send grid squares all the time for everything because it’s faster and
> grids are more useful than funny little numbers, but that’s just me.)

> 4. Stacked moxons are good; they can improve your signal strength by almost 3 dB.

> However, be aware that stacking doesn’t change the beam width – it will still
> be about the same width as a single moxon. What it does is add another radiator
> AND lower the take-off angle of radiation. A low take-off angle will give you
> greater distances for both meteors and E-skip; this is really good for antennas
> on a short mast.

> 5. Early morning has the fastest meteors. Generally 4 am to 10 am local is the

> best time. However, meteors arrive 24 hours a day and it’s always worth a try
> (for stations closer than 1200 miles) when other modes aren’t working.

> 6. The specific days with meteor showers are favorable times. In reality, the

> planet is sweeping through the sand particle trail leftover from some comet
> that passed through the Earth’s orbit. But again, millions of meteors are
> arriving every day at all times so don’t wait for meteor showers. Personally, I
> seldom see a big improvement during showers.

> 7. Fun fact: If you live within 50 miles of an airport, meteor scatter mode works
> /great/ with airplane reflections. Normally this mode can’t make contacts at

> less than 400 miles. But I live 20 miles from SeaTac and routinely work into BC
> when planes come by. It makes a distinctive pattern in the Fast Graph with a
> solid fluttering signal for a minute or more.

> 8. There’s more info in a presentation I wrote a couple years ago for the Issaquah

> WA club: https://www.w7bi.com/events/meteor-scatter-program-jan-2020    Look
> for charts of meteors by time-of-day and by month-of-year.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Barry K7BWH
>

> *From:*pnw...@googlegroups.com <pnw...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of
> *cwfinge...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 27, 2024 4:09 PM
> *To:* PNWVHFS <pnw...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* [PNWVHFS] Re: MSK Meteor Scatter Questions

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>
> --
> ~The Voice of the Pacific NorthWest VHF Society~
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