ALUMNI PROTEST - Open letter to Bush in Grand Rapids Press
nobusha...@yahoo.com
full page ad in the Grand Rapids Press on May 20th protesting Bush's
presence at Calvin.
If you want to sign the letter or are interested in making a
contribution to the cost of the ad, please email
nobusha...@yahoo.com for details.
Steve Bakker
msy...@mcw.edu
not. You are just political activists yourself.
LovePeace2
Wimp") that I could bring to the demonstration. I am from the eastern
part of the state, but I was planning to attend the demonstration in
support of Reverend Pinkney in Benton Harbor that day anyway (it's at
the same time, but I'm sure Reverend Pinkney will appreciate any
support earlier or later, so that we can get to the Calvin College
one). If anyone wants a whole bunch of pre-made signs, you're welcome
to them.
Greetings,
Dr. Austin Murphy
Don Jones
into chartering a bus from Northville, MI.
Every population area, within a 2 1/2 hour drive, of 20,000 or more
needs to be filling a bus for the "Ring of Truth".
elizabeth linder
it came back to me. what should i do???
elizabe...@yahoo.com
tcm3...@gmail.com
I know that as a Christian, one of the best uses of my time and money
is to stand against a president who pursues policies that make the rich
richer, the poor poorer, increase the abortion rate, make greed a value
and dismiss truth-telling as a quaint idea. Have you read the
prophets? It's not as if we're asked to have our faith and remain
silent.
msy...@mcw.edu
to misunderstand comments. My point was that the motivation for this is
largely political even though it comes from those who say they are
acting only on their faith in Jesus Christ. Whatever. What is more, do
you really believe all those statements you made. Even the most
strident liberal would only say those things in a semi-serious tone
because they know it is primarily inaccurate and mischaracterization.
Now if you could explain yourself, that might actually start a real
discussion
tcm3...@gmail.com
that you're the one who's not interested in starting a real discussion,
you're only interested in attacking, dismissing and diminishing others.
Peace to you.
msy...@mcw.edu
ideas of how to protest Bush coming to Calvin. "Attacking, dismissing
and diminishing others." Yup, that is exactly what you folks are doing.
If you wanted a real discussion, try acting/writing like you want a
real discussion. You don't want a discussion, you want a conduit to
vent your ideas with the thought that others are really listening to
what you say and think that you are an intelligent human being. Truth,
you hate Bush and conservatives. You even put together a T-shirt to
show it. Face the reality and be honest with yourself. You aren't
interested in intellectual debate or Christian debate so quit faking
like you are and be honest with yourself. Let your true colors shine
baby!
Don Jones
based on a few posts. To claim "you hate Bush" is on it's face an
unsupportable, inflammatory comment.
I feel that Bush is a lame duck whose policies are motivated to help
soulless corporations at the expense of the people.
Unfortunately, the Bush administration is not a conservative.
Conservatives only spend what they have.
Conservatives believe in states rights.
Conservatives believe in engaging the military only as a last resort.
Conservatives believe in the establishment clause.
Conservatives believe in privacy rights.
Conservatives believe in free speech.
Steve Bakker
things to attempt a dialogue with the President while he's here. He's
going to come in, deliver the speech, and leave, so I doubt there's
actually a real opportunity to debate. But I hope we can do something
noticeable that somehow would show a willingness to debate, even if it
is critical of the president, even if no debate really comes from it.
And I don't think every Christian here believes that they're doing this
all because they're christians, even the christians who have talked
about this in light of their faith and about what this means to them as
Christians. Not everyone here "hates Bush and conservatives" either,
but it's obvious that most people here are mostly "against" Bush. I'm
sure there's Christians here that don't believe their political
opinions have been entirely or perfectly derived from their Christian
beliefs. At least I hope there are. I find it hard to believe that
everyone would say their religious beliefs perfectly inform their
political beliefs.
I have reasons I consider Christian that motivate me to do something
that criticizes the president in conjunction with his visit--at least
to sign an open letter if I agree with what it has to say (and I would
hope it would try to open up a debate rather than just attest to being
opposed to someone, even if that debate never happens)--but I can't
presume that my Christian ideas are perfect, or that they perfectly
inform my political beliefs or anyone else's.
Jusin
after reading this, you will realize, that he is not a tenth the man
his father is.
Steve Bakker
imply that a liberal political slant is better than a conservative one,
while playing on the word "liberal"'s entirely non-political use in the
term "liberal arts education." I know you already understand this, but
I said it to show that I understand it too--altough again, this isn't
something that necessarily suggests that the people who made it or who
like it hate conservatives.
I'm not a liberal through-and-through, but do lean toward "liberal"
political ideas more often than "conservative" ones, and I think the
t-shirt's hilarious. But I don't hate all conservatives (I hate people
of various political stripes--I'm not saying hating anybody is a good
thing, I'm just admitting to it), and I would hope that if
conservatives saw me or anyone else wearing one they wouldn't take it
to mean the wear-er hates conservatives.
I should also admit that it's possible this is one of those things I
can't see as being unduly insulting because I'm (mostly) on the other
side of the fence.
msy...@mcw.edu
conservative). That is a the label of others on this site.
msy...@mcw.edu
some serious distaste for Bush. In fact, many of them can't stand him
for his political actions and a whole lot more. I'm sure you will
agree. I use the word hate in my comments to draw attention to the
folks who clearly have crystallized political opinions of Bush that are
not open to reasonable discussion--period. These folks would never
change their minds about anything. They are dead set against this guy
and everything he stands for--including his accent. You can call it
serious disagreement but I am of the belief that it is more along the
lines of vitriol and hate.
Sure there are folks in the middle, as you say you are. Fine, I would
actually put my self somewhere in the middle too but a little to the
other side of the continuum as yourself.
However, when I start hearing conspiracy theories and media talking
points coming out of anyone, I begin to dismiss them.
With respect to the T-shirt, I thought it was funny too. I bet there
are a bunch of conservatives around Calvin who would be proud to wear
it. Good marketing. Still, I thought it kinda odd that someone would go
though the trouble of making them and selling them on e-bay and saying
they are doing it primarily to support World Vision and make and
ancillary political statement. That is a bunch of crap and anyone who
would want to make a real donation wouldn't do it that way.
Well, I guess some people just like to be heard.
tcm3...@gmail.com
I intentionally designed the T-shirt to be ambiguous, partly because
the political scene is completely polarized and partly because I
thought its message would spark good discussion.
I am extremely weary of the harsh partisan divisions in the country
right now. I feel that Christians should be softening this problem, but
instead, we are exacerbating it. Progressives can see this T-shirt,
roll their eyes, and think,"Could the conservative movement really go
that far?" Conservatives can see it and say,"Right on! Let's do away
with the word liberal altogether!"
Why World Vision? It's a cause Christians from both sides of the
political fence can support, and I wanted to prove I'm not interested
in making money on the shirts AT ALL. Graduation has been manipulated
enough. I just wanted to actually do something positive.
Cherilyn
Wild Horse
integrity of freedom, democracy, truth, dignity, and human decency. And
protesting Bush's abusive use of power to destroy these values is not
only a duty but also an most urgent needed action of every human being
who refuse to live under a Nazi-like regime.
I could see YOU supporting Hitler had you lived under Nazism.
Think! Think for yourself before some evil power would do the thinking
for you!
ranfran
speak out against this horrendous administration, we are doomed as a
free society. Look at what is happening in our country since the Bush
Gang has taken power - Loss of jobs, loss of health care, and WAR!
ranfran
enough to join your protest. I can't tell you how important I feel it
is that we begin to take a stand against what this administration is
doing to our country. The time for playing dead and pretending that we
believe that our president will always do what is in our best interest
can be laid to rest; this is true only if we happen to be in the top
one or two percent financially. I say, and this is only slightly close
to what James Brown might have said : "Say it loud, I'm American and
I'm proud!" We don't need a president who doesn't feel the same way. Go
Calvin College!
Steve Bakker
People here have been hatin', and hatin' hardcore. Msytsma is right
that there are a lot of people posting with anti-Bush sentiments whose
comments seethe with hatred, and there are more people leaving those
comments than there are "anti-protest" haters leaving comments.
I'd daresay we're all haters. And if we're 'only hating haters',
that's enough to make us haters too. Largely against Bush or largely
for him, or somewhere in between, at least we can all find common
ground in our shared capacity to hate.
Sigh.
msy...@mcw.edu
Yup, that would be lunacy. I thought it was pretty clear that I was
referring to ineffectual and baseless protests. They are a waste of
time and money unless you think getting something off your chest is
worthy of your time and money.
WildHorse: If you think we live under a Nazi-like regime, I assure you
that you have not the slightest clue about what it was like to live
under Hitler. Your statements are laughable.
Just for your own edification. My mother lived in Germany in WWII. Her
did not support Hitler in the least. They were Christian farmers and
kept the fascists at a distance. They harbored refugees on a regular
basis after the war. Granted, her two uncles died on the eastern front
but if you think that is because they were Hitler disciples, you are
wrong again. My father lived in the Netherlands during WWII. His family
regularly harbored Jews and wanted individuals during the war. In fact,
during one interrogation by the SS, asked my grandfather several times
if they were harboring Jews and each time he refused all the while
having a pistol to his temple. Then, they took my dad out of the barn
and asked my grandpa one more time and said that my father would die if
he didn't tell the truth. My grandpa lied, they shot the pistol, but
fortunately they simply fired it in the air. I have a friend whose
grandfather did not have such a blessed event happen. He was killed.
Now, that all doesn't mean much but to say that my relatives weren't
coopted by Nazis. You have made quite a statement and quite honestly it
makes me think. It makes me think that you mindset is certainly capable
of being so incredibly scewed that it wouldn't be too hard for you to
think that certain humans are inferior because of their beliefs,
genetics, or race. Please spare me the comments on being able to think
for yourself. If you are what a true self-thinker is, I'd rather have
an IQ of 50.