Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
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Asingh2384
Jun 9, 2016, 1:45:31 PM6/9/16
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Hi Mike:
Thanks for the interesting article.
This points to the evidence that consciousness is a universal phenomena that exists without brains and neurons. Zero point Dark Energy or unmanifested universal consciousness manifests in forms of varying degree (0 to 100%) of conscious responses in rocks, plants, organisms, humans, stars, galaxies, and the universe. Spontaneous motion or change of state is the evidence or symptom of the universal consciousness.
Regards
Avtar
Thanks for the interesting article.
This points to the evidence that consciousness is a universal phenomena that exists without brains and neurons. Zero point Dark Energy or unmanifested universal consciousness manifests in forms of varying degree (0 to 100%) of conscious responses in rocks, plants, organisms, humans, stars, galaxies, and the universe. Spontaneous motion or change of state is the evidence or symptom of the universal consciousness.
Regards
Avtar
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Vandeman <mjv...@pacbell.net>
To: Recipient list suppressed:;
Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 8:44 am
Subject: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160608112930.htm
Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Date:
June 8, 2016
Source:
New Jersey Institute of Technology
Summary:
How do organisms without brains make decisions?
Most of life is brainless and the vast majority
of organisms on Earth lack neurons altogether.
Plants, fungi and bacteria must all cope with the
same problem as humans -- to make the best
choices in a complex and ever-changing world or
risk dying - without the help of a simple nervous system in many cases.
Bacteria colony (stock image). Plants, fungi and
bacteria must all cope with the same problem as
humans -- to make the best choices in a complex
and ever-changing world or risk dying -- without
the help of a simple nervous system in many cases.
Credit: © zuki70 / Fotolia
How do organisms without brains make decisions?
Most of life is brainless and the vast majority
of organisms on Earth lack neurons altogether.
Plants, fungi and bacteria must all cope with the
same problem as humans -- to make the best
choices in a complex and ever-changing world or
risk dying -- without the help of a simple nervous system in many cases.
A team of researchers from New Jersey Institute
of Technology (NJIT), the University of Sydney,
the University of Sheffield and the University of
Leeds recently studied this problem in the
unicellular slime mold, Physarum polycephalum, a
single-cell organism that can grow to several
square meters in size. This giant cell, which
typically lives in shady, cool and moist areas of
temperate forests, spreads out to search its
environment like an amoeba, extending oozy
tendrils along the forest floor in search of its
prey of fungi, bacteria and decaying vegetable matter.
Neither plant, animal nor fungus, P. polycephalum
has become an unlikely candidate for studies of
cognition, due to its spectacular problem-solving
abilities. In recent studies, Physarum has been
shown to solve labyrinth mazes, make complicated
trade-offs, anticipate periodic events, remember
where it has been, construct transport networks
that have similar efficiency to those designed by
human engineers and even make irrational
decisions -- a capability that has long been
viewed as a by-product of brain circuitry.
In this study, the researchers examined the
decision-making ability of slime mold using a
test classically used in humans, birds and other
brained organisms: the two-armed bandit problem,
named for the infamous slot machine, or one-armed
bandit. In a two-armed bandit problem, the
subject has two levers to pull, each of which
delivers a certain, randomly determined reward.
One of the levers is more likely to deliver a
higher reward overall, so the challenge for
participants is to decide at what point to stop
exploring both options and decide to exclusively
exploit just the one option in order to maximize
their payoff. The phenomenon is called the
exploration-exploitation tradeoff and is relevant
to more than just slot machines, applying to many
situations, including investors picking start-up
companies to back or drivers choosing a parking
space. As such, it has become a classical tool
for testing the decision-making abilities of
humans and other animals, but it has never before
been used on an organism without a brain.
The researchers adapted the two-armed bandit test
for slime mold by giving the organism the choice
to explore two opposite directions. In each
direction, the slime mold encountered discrete
patches of food, more or less regularly
distributed. One direction would contain more of
these patches than the other. They then observed
how far in each direction the slime mold would
explore before switching to the exploitation of
one of the two directions only. The results of
these experiments demonstrate that slime mold
compares the relative qualities of multiple
options, most often choosing the direction with
the higher overall concentration of food. It was
able to sum up the number of food patches
encountered in each direction, as well as the
quantity of food present at each patch to make
correct and adaptive decisions as to the direction it should move next.
The slime mold's decision-making algorithm can be
mathematically described as a tendency to exploit
environments in proportion to their reward
experienced through past sampling. The algorithm
is intermediate in computational complexity
between simple, reactionary heuristics and
calculation-intensive optimal performance
algorithms, yet it has very good relative performance.
"Working with Physarum constantly challenges our
preconceived notions of the minimum biological
hardware that is required for sophisticated
behavior," says Simon Garnier, an assistant
professor of biology at NJIT and the principal investigator of the study.
While the biological substrate of the algorithm
remains to be identified, this study provides
insight into ancestral mechanisms of decision
making and suggests that fundamental principles
of decision making, information processing and
even cognition are shared among diverse biological systems.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is
off-limits to humans ("pure habitat").
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years
fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Wildlife must be given top priority, because they
can't protect themselves from us.
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of
your body that you are fond of!
http://mjvande.info
From: Mike Vandeman <mjv...@pacbell.net>
To: Recipient list suppressed:;
Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 8:44 am
Subject: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160608112930.htm
Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Date:
June 8, 2016
Source:
New Jersey Institute of Technology
Summary:
How do organisms without brains make decisions?
Most of life is brainless and the vast majority
of organisms on Earth lack neurons altogether.
Plants, fungi and bacteria must all cope with the
same problem as humans -- to make the best
choices in a complex and ever-changing world or
risk dying - without the help of a simple nervous system in many cases.
Bacteria colony (stock image). Plants, fungi and
bacteria must all cope with the same problem as
humans -- to make the best choices in a complex
and ever-changing world or risk dying -- without
the help of a simple nervous system in many cases.
Credit: © zuki70 / Fotolia
How do organisms without brains make decisions?
Most of life is brainless and the vast majority
of organisms on Earth lack neurons altogether.
Plants, fungi and bacteria must all cope with the
same problem as humans -- to make the best
choices in a complex and ever-changing world or
risk dying -- without the help of a simple nervous system in many cases.
A team of researchers from New Jersey Institute
of Technology (NJIT), the University of Sydney,
the University of Sheffield and the University of
Leeds recently studied this problem in the
unicellular slime mold, Physarum polycephalum, a
single-cell organism that can grow to several
square meters in size. This giant cell, which
typically lives in shady, cool and moist areas of
temperate forests, spreads out to search its
environment like an amoeba, extending oozy
tendrils along the forest floor in search of its
prey of fungi, bacteria and decaying vegetable matter.
Neither plant, animal nor fungus, P. polycephalum
has become an unlikely candidate for studies of
cognition, due to its spectacular problem-solving
abilities. In recent studies, Physarum has been
shown to solve labyrinth mazes, make complicated
trade-offs, anticipate periodic events, remember
where it has been, construct transport networks
that have similar efficiency to those designed by
human engineers and even make irrational
decisions -- a capability that has long been
viewed as a by-product of brain circuitry.
In this study, the researchers examined the
decision-making ability of slime mold using a
test classically used in humans, birds and other
brained organisms: the two-armed bandit problem,
named for the infamous slot machine, or one-armed
bandit. In a two-armed bandit problem, the
subject has two levers to pull, each of which
delivers a certain, randomly determined reward.
One of the levers is more likely to deliver a
higher reward overall, so the challenge for
participants is to decide at what point to stop
exploring both options and decide to exclusively
exploit just the one option in order to maximize
their payoff. The phenomenon is called the
exploration-exploitation tradeoff and is relevant
to more than just slot machines, applying to many
situations, including investors picking start-up
companies to back or drivers choosing a parking
space. As such, it has become a classical tool
for testing the decision-making abilities of
humans and other animals, but it has never before
been used on an organism without a brain.
The researchers adapted the two-armed bandit test
for slime mold by giving the organism the choice
to explore two opposite directions. In each
direction, the slime mold encountered discrete
patches of food, more or less regularly
distributed. One direction would contain more of
these patches than the other. They then observed
how far in each direction the slime mold would
explore before switching to the exploitation of
one of the two directions only. The results of
these experiments demonstrate that slime mold
compares the relative qualities of multiple
options, most often choosing the direction with
the higher overall concentration of food. It was
able to sum up the number of food patches
encountered in each direction, as well as the
quantity of food present at each patch to make
correct and adaptive decisions as to the direction it should move next.
The slime mold's decision-making algorithm can be
mathematically described as a tendency to exploit
environments in proportion to their reward
experienced through past sampling. The algorithm
is intermediate in computational complexity
between simple, reactionary heuristics and
calculation-intensive optimal performance
algorithms, yet it has very good relative performance.
"Working with Physarum constantly challenges our
preconceived notions of the minimum biological
hardware that is required for sophisticated
behavior," says Simon Garnier, an assistant
professor of biology at NJIT and the principal investigator of the study.
While the biological substrate of the algorithm
remains to be identified, this study provides
insight into ancestral mechanisms of decision
making and suggests that fundamental principles
of decision making, information processing and
even cognition are shared among diverse biological systems.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is
off-limits to humans ("pure habitat").
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years
fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Wildlife must be given top priority, because they
can't protect themselves from us.
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of
your body that you are fond of!
http://mjvande.info
Dr. S.
Jun 12, 2016, 10:31:34 AM6/12/16
to Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., mjv...@pacbell.net, online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Avtar
it is more than just evidence of "universal consciousness," as you say, it is evidence for the direct influence of consciousness on (at least) animate matter.
m
it is more than just evidence of "universal consciousness," as you say, it is evidence for the direct influence of consciousness on (at least) animate matter.
m
Ruth Kastner
Jun 12, 2016, 4:48:49 PM6/12/16
to online_sa...@googlegroups.com, mjv...@pacbell.net
Actually the existence of 'vacuum fluctuations' is a metaphysical assumption on the part of physicists. These may not exist at all. In a different interpretation, suggested by Jaynes, Wheeler/Feynman 1945 (and Wheeler 2003), and others, there is no real 'zero point field'.
Instead there is an active tendency for charged quanta like electrons to couple with each other.
See the attached paper by Jaynes for why reifying the uncertainty about field states as 'fluctuations' is arguably not warranted.
Now, this alternative interpretation does not rule out the idea that consciousness is fundamental.
(I subscribe the alternative view and I still view consciousness as fundamental--because I don't think Chalmer's 'hard problem' is solved by 'emergence' arguments. I think it has to be there in at least some potential sense from the beginning. )
I'm just noting that the zero point field is a common assumption that is not capable of being demonstrated conclusively; it's just one interpretation, based on a particular reading of the computational tool of quantum field theory.
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:29:27 -0700
From: mi...@athabascau.ca
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net; online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:29:27 -0700
From: mi...@athabascau.ca
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net; online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Credit: C zuki70 / Fotolia
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Dean Radin
Jun 12, 2016, 11:28:28 PM6/12/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com, mjv...@pacbell.net
I thought that something like a zero-point force was indeed measured.
- Chief Scientist, Institute of Noetic Sciences noetic.org
- Co-Editor-in-Chief, Explore explorejournal.com
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
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Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Brad Bartholomew
Jun 13, 2016, 12:11:13 AM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Hello All
Plants and slime mold do not have neurons but they do have DNA that emits EMR. I invite you to consider that any rudimentary intelligence that slime mold exhibits is coming directly from the DNA.
Kind regards
Brad
www.spiritualgenome.com
Richard D Saam
Jun 13, 2016, 1:08:24 AM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Yes Dean, see the reality of the zero point
field (Casimir effect) page 73
Peter W. Milonni, The Quantum Vacuum, An Introduction to Quantum Electrodynamics, Academic Press, New York, 1994.
The zero point field been experimentally measured.
All the best
Richard
Peter W. Milonni, The Quantum Vacuum, An Introduction to Quantum Electrodynamics, Academic Press, New York, 1994.
The zero point field been experimentally measured.
All the best
Richard
-- All the best, Richard D. Saam 525 Louisiana Ave Corpus Christi, Texas 78404 USA Tel: 361 855 1265 http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9905007 https://profiles.google.com/RDSaam/about http://www.facebook.com/richard.saam.1
Ruth Kastner
Jun 13, 2016, 4:00:40 AM6/13/16
to online_sa...@googlegroups.com, mjv...@pacbell.net
All those effects (e.g. the Casimir effect) can be accounted for in terms of the direct-action theory rather than in terms of a zero-point field. This is what Jaynes points out in the paper I just sent.
From: dra...@noetic.org
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:25:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net
From: dra...@noetic.org
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:25:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net
Ruth Kastner
Jun 13, 2016, 4:00:40 AM6/13/16
to online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Actually no, that is not correct. An effect attributed to the ZPF has been measured, but you get the same effect in the direct-action theory with no separately quantized field.
Measurements cannot distinguish between these two theories; they are empirically equivalent.
So the measured effect cannot corroborate one theory over the other.
See the Jaynes paper I sent earlier.
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
From: rds...@att.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:59:56 -0500
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
From: rds...@att.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:59:56 -0500
-- All the best, Richard D. Saam 525 Louisiana Ave Corpus Christi, Texas 78404 USA Tel: 361 855 1265
Dasharath patel
Jun 13, 2016, 8:14:40 AM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Dear Brad,
If DNA is exhibiting intelligence then put it in a petri dish and see if it shows that intelligence. DNA molecule has no intelligence of its own. What is using DNA has that intelligence.
Dr. Mike Sosteric
Jun 13, 2016, 10:48:21 AM6/13/16
to online_sa...@googlegroups.com
This article is not talking about "rudimentary" intelligence. This is talking about, and I quote " spectacular problem-solving abilities" of a "mindless" fungi.
"In recent studies, Physarum has been
shown to solve labyrinth mazes, make complicated
trade-offs, anticipate periodic events, remember
where it has been, construct transport networks
that have similar efficiency to those designed by
human engineers and even make irrational
decisions -- a capability that has long been
viewed as a by-product of brain circuitry."
Explain how the spectacular problem solving abilities of physarum polycephalum "comes directly" from DNA.
m
From: online_sa...@googlegroups.com <online_sa...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Brad Bartholomew <brad.bar...@gmail.com>
Sent: 12 June 2016 22:05:07
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Sent: 12 June 2016 22:05:07
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Hello All
Plants and slime mold do not have neurons but they do have DNA that emits EMR. I invite you to consider that any rudimentary intelligence that slime mold exhibits is coming directly from the DNA.
Kind regards
Brad
www.spiritualgenome.com
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Asingh2384
Jun 13, 2016, 2:30:46 PM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com, mjv...@pacbell.net, reka...@hotmail.com, dra...@noetic.org
Zero point is neither a field nor a force but a predicted relativistic complimentary state of existence wherein all contents of the universe reside in a pure kinetic energy state (V=C) in a fully dilated mass/space/time. This prediction is based on an integrated model of the dynamics of the spontaneous decay/birth of particles in so-called empty space with a simplified model of general relativity.
This integrated model is also shown to explain inner workings of QM resolving many of its known paradoxes as well as predicts the observed Hubble and accelerated Supernova expansion of the universe without the big bang singularity.
This integrated model is also shown to explain inner workings of QM resolving many of its known paradoxes as well as predicts the observed Hubble and accelerated Supernova expansion of the universe without the big bang singularity.
Best Regards
Avtar Singh, Sc.D.
Alumni, MIT
Author of "The Hidden Factor - An Approach for
Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality"
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Abdellatif Abujudeh
Jun 13, 2016, 2:39:12 PM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dean, Ruth and all
Quantum mechanically speaking, I'd like to state that something like "a zero-point field' is being 'indeed' observed.
Abdu
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Asingh2384
Jun 13, 2016, 2:41:54 PM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com, mjv...@pacbell.net, reka...@hotmail.com, dra...@noetic.org
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0370269306010197
Abstract
It
has been speculated that the zero-point energy of the vacuum,
regularized due to the existence of a suitable ultraviolet cut-off
scale, could be the source of the non-vanishing cosmological constant
that is driving the present acceleration of the universe. We show that
the presence of such a cut-off can significantly alter the results for
the Casimir force between parallel conducting plates and even lead to
repulsive Casimir force when the plate separation is smaller than the
cut-off scale length. Using the current experimental data we rule out
the possibility that the observed cosmological constant arises from the
zero-point energy which is made finite by a suitable cut-off. Any such
cut-off which is consistent with the observed Casimir effect will lead
to an energy density which is at least about 1012 times larger than the observed one, if gravity couples to these modes. The implications are discussed.
Best Regards
Avtar Singh, Sc.D.
Alumni, MIT
Author of "The Hidden Factor - An Approach for
Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality"
-----Original Message-----
From: Ruth Kastner <reka...@hotmail.com>
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com <online_sa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: mjvande <mjv...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2016 1:00 am
From: Ruth Kastner <reka...@hotmail.com>
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com <online_sa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: mjvande <mjv...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2016 1:00 am
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Asingh2384
Jun 13, 2016, 4:44:49 PM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
The QM Zero-point field is about 12 orders of magnitude stronger than the Cosmological Constant governing the observed universe expansion. Such a high magnitude QM vacuum energy (Casimir Effect) would rip apart the universe quickly, and hence does not match the observed universe behavior or Dark energy that is more accurately explained by Cosmological Constant of the relativity theory.
Best Regards
Avtar Singh, Sc.D.
Alumni, MIT
Author of "The Hidden Factor - An Approach for
Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality"
Ruth Kastner
Jun 13, 2016, 5:20:06 PM6/13/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Yes there is theoretical inconsistency in taking the ZPF as a real physical effect. Jaynes points this out quite explicitly in his paper.
But again, there is a real effect that 'appears' as though there is a ZPF. Read the Jaynes paper and the attached paper by Bennett for a clear account of how this effect arises far more elegantly in the direct-action theory. (Bennett's theory is not 100% empirically equivalent to quantum field theory, however the direct-action theory of Davies is. It depends on whether one allows for 'self-action' or not. In the Davies theory, 'self-action' is not 'self-energy'; it is really a self-force, which does not result in problematic energy divergences that plague standard field theories.)
One can interpret the effect in the direct-action theory as a reflection of the fundamentally indeterministic tendency of charges to couple with one another by exchanging a photon (or other force carrier such as the color force). This is a highly non-classical, non-mechanistic property, so it could be thought of as reflecting consciousness or potency at a fundamental level, just as much as the ZPF.
From: 'Asingh2384' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:15 PM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:15 PM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Brad Bartholomew
Jun 14, 2016, 12:13:15 AM6/14/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Hello Dasharath
I don't think you realize how much evidence there is that the DNA is interacting with the neurons of the brain in humans that is to say the DNA is an integral part of the intelligence process. The experiments at HeartMath Institute that the brainwaves of healers can change the DNA in various ways. The recent research in optogenetics that brainwaves can cause the expression of genes that are responsive to brainwaves and that action potentials of neurons can be triggered EMR. Also theory of Charles Darwin that the primary root of the plant acts as an embryonic brain. Plants and slime mold don't have neurons but they do have DNA that emits EMR.
I am delivering a paper on this next week at Parapsychological Association in Boulder CO entitled A REVIEW OF PSI ACTIVITY IN THE DNA. If you like I would be happy to send you a copy of this paper.
Kind regards
Brad
Dasharath patel
Jun 14, 2016, 8:34:50 AM6/14/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Dear Brad,
I have never seen any evidence to prove that DNA has any intelligence of its own. Legs have no power to walk without the life force within the body that is driving the activities of the living organisms. A leg separated from the body has no power to walk. So it is not intelligent proposition to say that leg on its own has the power to walk. Similarly DNA by itself has no power. It is simple understanding. Science is not meant to confuse people. First prove how DNA has some intelligence on its own and then claim that. I wish you good luck for your talk but please honestly think about these subjects and make some intelligent conclusions that will help bring some advancement in knowledge and not degradation.
It is a well understood fact that DNA is subject to change under the guidance of consciousness. The molecules in cell and organs in the body of a multicellular organism can do what they meant to do only when the consciousness is present within the body. So consciousness is displaying intelligence through molecules and organs and it is a wrong conclusion to claim that molecules and organs have some short of intelligence of their own. Neither brain nor DNA on its own has any intelligence. Without life or consciousness of living entity they are only helpless dull matter.
Roger Clough
Jun 14, 2016, 10:19:16 AM6/14/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Life by definition is nonphysical Intelligence.
-Ever since Hume, science has imprisoned us in the dark cave of
materialism and empiricism and needs to restore us to the quantum
sunlight of plato (plotinus)
-- see my website https://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
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Virus-free. www.avast.com |
Brad Bartholomew
Jun 14, 2016, 9:51:33 PM6/14/16
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Dear Dasharath
Well I can't imagine where life or consciousness of the living entity comes from if not from the DNA.
To my mind any substance that is responding appropriately to the mental instructions of humans is displaying evidence of intelligence.
Likewise any substance that is emitting EM signals about its precise sequence of bases is displaying evidence of intelligence namely the ability to process and transmit data. See the paper "DNA waves and water" by Nobel Laureate Dr Luc Montagnier.
Evidently we shall have to agree to disagree on this matter but there is actually a great deal of evidence of intelligence in the DNA but if you choose to ignore or dismiss it that is entirely your prerogative.
Kind regards
Brad
Kalluri Rao
Jun 15, 2016, 2:05:10 AM6/15/16
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It is true that unicellular organisms like Amoeba which has no brain like structure can divide through the process of binary fission However DNA by itself cannot divide- where is the information to divide is coming from in Amoeba ?
KSR
Knowledge & Information can be communicated, but not wisdom.
b...@cosmic-mindreach.com
Jun 15, 2016, 2:09:40 AM6/15/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com, dasharat...@gmail.com
Dear Dasharath and others,
It is noteworthy that mutations can
produce eyeless fruit flies and when eyeless flies reproduce their offspring
are eyeless. However after a number of generations flies with normal eyes
reappear. Mutations revert to normal flies again and show no evidence of
diverging into a separate species. They remain fruit flies. This indicates that
there is an archetypal energy pattern associated with the species that
determines the characteristics of individual members while allowing some
variation for adaptation. Darwin might better have called his book The Adaptation of Species. There is no
evidence that random mutations of DNA have ever created completely new unique species,
much less a new Family, Class, or Kingdom. This is an unsubstantiated rationalization.
We just do not know the exact mechanics of how the evolutionary process works.
We do know however that there are
recursive archetypal energy patterns that work within or behind the physical
scenes to orchestrate the biochemistry of cells in complex creatures as well as single cells.
Archetypal energy patterns integrate multitudes of Cells cooperating in Organ
systems that function coherently together to meet the needs of the Host creature
such as a human being. We know that protein enzymes catalyze the chemistry of
the cell employing energy derived from phosphate ions that are regenerated by
protein enzymes that in turn catalyze their own chemical synthesis without
themselves being altered chemically in the process. The process is a
recursively closed energy pattern of immense complexity for each cell type in
each host organ. It has taken a few billion years to evolve from cosmic seeds
that were very probably planted from interstellar space. The evidence is clear
however that the climb up the ladder of sentient awareness implicitly delegates
ever greater knowledge of events extended in space and time.
There is direct evidence to confirm the existence of archetypal energy
patterns. In 2012, V.S. Ramachandran and Paul McGeoch reported the case of a
57-year-old woman (known as R.N.) who was born with a deformed right hand
consisting of only three fingers and a rudimentary thumb. After a car crash at
the age of 18, the woman's deformed hand was amputated, which resulted in
feelings of a phantom hand. However the phantom hand was experienced with all
five fingers (although some of the digits were foreshortened). Thirty-five
years after her accident, her phantom hand became unbearably painful. McGeoch
and Ramachandran trained her using mirror box visual feedback, for 30
minutes a day, in which the reflection of her healthy left-hand was seen as
superimposed onto where she felt her phantom right hand to be. After two weeks
she was able to move her phantom fingers and was relieved of pain. Crucially,
she also experienced that all five of her phantom fingers were now normal
length.[i]
This phenomenon indicates that there is indeed a very real Archetypal
Energy Form to the Physical Form of the body. It is an independent archetypal
energy pattern related to the human species in its coherent association with a
personal archetypal energy pattern unique to each individual. Together these
two archetypal energy patterns clothe themselves in atoms and are focused
through the biological anatomy that animates us as human beings.[ii]
It is the archetypal patterns that have evolved over a few billion years,
regardless of how they got seeded. Atoms and molecules cannot self-assemble
themselves into complex living creatures. This should be obvious from the
recursive complexity of living Cells in their dynamic relationship to Organs
and Host creatures of all species. The Host subsumes the archetypal patterns of
Organs and Cells.
There is more on how the machinery of the cell is animated to regulate gene expression at http://www.cosmic-mindreach.com/Gene_Expression.html.
Best regards,
Robert Campbell
[i] McGeoch,
P., and Ramachandran, V., (2012), The appearance of new phantom fingers
post-amputation in a phocomelus, Neurocase, 18 (2), 95-97.
From: Brad Bartholomew <brad.bar...@gmail.com>
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Brad Bartholomew
Jun 15, 2016, 4:04:58 AM6/15/16
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Dear Kalluri
I don't know about unicellular organisms but there is the paper "Electric oscillation and coupling regulate chromosome packaging and transcription in eukaryotic cells" in the Journal Theoretical Biology and Medical Modelling. Clearly the information is being delivered from inside the genome as EM signals and this would also appear to be the archetypal energy that Robert is talking about. Please note specifically in that paper all the data about EM activity in the so-called "junk DNA".
The paper is available on the internet and you can Google it.
Kind regards
Brad
Dasharath patel
Jun 15, 2016, 10:36:41 AM6/15/16
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Dear Brad,
Please tell me first what do you mean by intelligence. What forces you to think that a molecule like DNA is intelligent on its own? Why in a petri dish DNA does not show intelligence and it only found acting intelligent in a living cell? A puppet may give an impression that it is intelligent but a really intelligent person will see that a intelligent being is controlling it via strings. Similarly if we do not see that consciousness that is making the molecules act intelligent within the cell then we are making some ignorant conclusions.
Guy A Hoelzer
Jun 15, 2016, 11:55:53 AM6/15/16
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Kalluri,
That information is generated primarily by interactions between DNA and its environment, which is comprised mainly of the biochemical and structural features inside the cell. It is my view that the genome alone contains only a very small fraction
of the information needed to construct and operate a cell. Developmental processes are also informed by factors outside the genome and outside the cell, but most of the requisite information is generated dynamically during the process of development.
Guy
On Jun 14, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Kalluri Rao <ksrb...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true that unicellular organisms like Amoeba which has no brain like structure can divide through the process of binary fission However DNA by itself cannot divide- where is the information to divide is coming from in Amoeba ?
KSR
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Brad Bartholomew <brad.bar...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Dasharath
I don't think you realize how much evidence there is that the DNA is interacting with the neurons of the brain in humans that is to say the DNA is an integral part of the intelligence process. The experiments at HeartMath Institute that the brainwaves of healers can change the DNA in various ways. The recent research in optogenetics that brainwaves can cause the expression of genes that are responsive to brainwaves and that action potentials of neurons can be triggered EMR. Also theory of Charles Darwin that the primary root of the plant acts as an embryonic brain. Plants and slime mold don't have neurons but they do have DNA that emits EMR.
I am delivering a paper on this next week at Parapsychological Association in Boulder CO entitled A REVIEW OF PSI ACTIVITY IN THE DNA. If you like I would be happy to send you a copy of this paper.
Kind regards
Brad
On Jun 13, 2016 10:14 PM, "Dasharath patel" <dasharat...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Brad,
If DNA is exhibiting intelligence then put it in a petri dish and see if it shows that intelligence. DNA molecule has no intelligence of its own. What is using DNA has that intelligence.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Brad Bartholomew <brad.bar...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello All
Plants and slime mold do not have neurons but they do have DNA that emits EMR. I invite you to consider that any rudimentary intelligence that slime mold exhibits is coming directly from the DNA.
Kind regards
Brad
www.spiritualgenome.com[spiritualgenome.com]
On Jun 10, 2016 3:45 AM, "'Asingh2384' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hi Mike:
Thanks for the interesting article.
This points to the evidence that consciousness is a universal phenomena that exists without brains and neurons. Zero point Dark Energy or unmanifested universal consciousness manifests in forms of varying degree (0 to 100%) of conscious responses in rocks, plants, organisms, humans, stars, galaxies, and the universe. Spontaneous motion or change of state is the evidence or symptom of the universal consciousness.
Regards
Avtar
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Vandeman <mjv...@pacbell.net>
To: Recipient list suppressed:;
Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 8:44 am
Subject: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
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Dasharath patel
Jun 15, 2016, 12:08:46 PM6/15/16
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Dear Guy,
You have claimed that information is generated primarily by interactions between DNA and its environment, which is comprised mainly of the biochemical and structural features inside the cell. However you have not explained what is causing that interactions and what is transferring that interaction processes from one life to another for ages. We do not see such things happening in nonliving objects or matter (say DNA, a piece of rock, robot).
You have claimed that information is generated primarily by interactions between DNA and its environment, which is comprised mainly of the biochemical and structural features inside the cell. However you have not explained what is causing that interactions and what is transferring that interaction processes from one life to another for ages. We do not see such things happening in nonliving objects or matter (say DNA, a piece of rock, robot).
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Guy A Hoelzer
Jun 15, 2016, 3:41:28 PM6/15/16
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Dasharath,
I see interactions as caused by physical energy, which is often transferred in the interaction. The biological process of reproduction is what transfers interaction processes from parents to offspring. I see all of this as more fundamental than
life, and I would indeed argue that we frequently observe interactions, energy transfer, and resulting changes in form (literally being ‘informed’) among nonliving objects (say DNA, a piece of rock, robot…) every day.
Guy
Stanley N Salthe
Jun 15, 2016, 3:46:55 PM6/15/16
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Guy -- Generalizing, I would invoke a hierarchy of dissipative structures here.
STAN
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Kalluri Rao
Jun 15, 2016, 6:03:44 PM6/15/16
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Now, I gather some courage to spell out what I used to think as a child that the the inanimate objects around also have thinking and they can also respond in their own way. It used to amuse me when I throw a stone quite often it misses the target and similarly many other incidents that would not obey he intention of the thrower but does occasionally. One of my elderly uncle used to talk to many inanimate objects including kerosene lamp or electric bulb.
Later in my life as researcher,in the field of DNA Repair, I always found the the information transfer from DNA while making the RNA strand OR inserting the correct complimentary base , a miracle and at times for some reason errors occur.
It thus appears that even the so called inanimate objects may possess some information in them. I find this debate awfully interesting and I read the messages with a childish awe.
KSR
Jeremy Christian
Jun 15, 2016, 11:47:38 PM6/15/16
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I think that's very natural. That's very much along the same lines of the mindset of many indigenous cultures. That there's a kind of lifeforce that lives in everything and ties us all together. Ties us to the mountains and the streams like one big organism.
If you observe plants in time lapse, and you can see their roots below ground, you'll see that they behave very much like animals do. They look like animals. They share with related plants and battle against foreign plants to fight for food and resources. Plants actually know when you're near them. They communicate with one another. We just don't see it because they move through growth rather than having a muscular and nervous system. But they, like animals, operate from a place of individual will. A sense of awareness of themselves in the environment around them. Brad Bartholomew
Jun 15, 2016, 11:54:00 PM6/15/16
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Dear Dasharath
You don't seem to realize that whole fields of study like Biophotonics, Bioinformatics, and Optogentics have grown up in the past 30 years dealing specifically with communicating with the DNA by means of EMR. By communicating I mean receiving meaningful signals from the DNA and meaningful signals to the DNA.
Below is a small extract from an article in New Scientist (13 Feb 1999) which indicates that the processes within the DNA involves highly sophisticated electronics and computer processing. If this doesn't convince you that the processes within the DNA involve intelligence then nothing will.
Electric DNA
By Andy Coghlan
GENES may be able to send electrical signals to one another through a DNA
information “superhighway”, according to Jacqueline Barton and her colleagues at
the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. The team showed that single
electrons can shoot far enough along DNA to influence gene activity.
“It’s a way of transmitting chemical information over a long distance that’s
dependent on a DNA sequence,” says Barton, whose results appear in Chemistry
& Biology (vol 6, number 2, p 85). She speculates that the electrical
signals might help to switch genes that are far apart on and off.
Last year Barton and her colleagues showed that electrons can pass through
short stretches of DNA by hopping between the overlapping electron clouds of
adjacent nucleotide bases, the molecular building blocks of DNA
(This Week, 22 August 1998, p 21).
Together, the disc-shaped electron clouds of each individual base form stacks
which serve as an electron-rich pathway for conducting electrical signals.
What surprised the chemists this time, however, was the sheer distance over
which a signal could travel. They found that signals could span 60-base chunks
of DNA 20 nanometres long, a stretch long enough to code for 20 amino acids. DNA
promoters, the molecular “switches” that turn on adjacent genes, are typically
this length. The team concluded that in theory, there is no limit to the
distance signals could travel along DNA. “We are talking about biologically
relevant distances, and you can have strange fantasies about what the
implications might be,” says Barton.
Abdellatif Abujudeh
Jun 16, 2016, 8:36:42 AM6/16/16
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Dear Ruth, Dean, and all
When I say anything about the quantum theory or other relevant issues, I actually depend on my own observations, first -person experience which is unique and as bizarre as Quantum Mechanics itself. I claim that I can 'see'/ perceive what I think to be "something " like a quantum field, which could be the zero-point field or the electromagnetic field, or even the quantum realm itself. Call it what you may, but I herein this e-mail confirm its existence and that I deal with it just as all of you (including me) deal with the classical world. You look at the classical realm from one point of view, but I do additionally from another point of view. You've got only one, whereas I have got two points of view. You are conscious of the classical realm and I am conscious of the classical and the quantum realm, separately or together. Have you got any question about this state or situation? Please ask about more information if you are interested. By the way both realms have something to do with consciousness.
Sincerely
Abdu
Dasharath patel
Jun 16, 2016, 8:51:05 AM6/16/16
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Dear Brad,
I do not see how Biophotonics, Bioinformatics, and Optogentics can establish the intelligence of DNA outside the living cell. Do you accept this simple fact that DNA on its own do not have any intelligence and it only appears intelligent when cell is alive?
Dasharath patel
Jun 16, 2016, 8:52:27 AM6/16/16
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Dear Guy,
I cannot understand what do you mean by physical energy. Please elaborate what do you mean by that and what it has to do with the integrity of cellular content. As far as production of new life by reproduction is concerned it is a process where two living entities sperm and egg merge to form a new living entity zygote which further grow to become a full multicellular organism. In unicellular entities one organism (cell) divides and become two different living organism (cells). I cannot see any evidence that will show that a physical energy can produce a living organism from molecules. DNA, a piece of rock, robot… do not merge or divide to form another DNA, a piece of rock, robot… Organisms produced only from organisms. This is simple. Fixing our stand to material view we are trying make Science practice a profession of entertainment consisting of jokes and sketches. But that is not real science.
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Brad Bartholomew
Jun 16, 2016, 11:09:37 PM6/16/16
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Dear Dasharath
Why don't you just Google "Electronic properties of DNA" and actually read some of the articles that come up. Insisting that there is no intelligence in the DNA is like insisting that there is no intelligence in your smart phone.
Best regards
Brad
Dasharath patel
Jun 16, 2016, 11:39:07 PM6/16/16
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Dear Brad,
Smartphone is a good example. If you do not use smartphone then it has no power to display any intelligence. If you do not insert a sim then it has of no use for calling or receiving phone calls. Smartphones does not play games among each other. You need the intelligence to use that device. Similarly DNA on its own is not intelligent. Living cell uses it intelligently. It is simple!
Brad Bartholomew
Jun 16, 2016, 11:52:28 PM6/16/16
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Dear Dasharath
You yourself keep talking about isolated DNA in a petri dish as being lifeless an inert but in fact electric current is still flowing thru that isolated DNA sample and it is emitting EMR, and the EMR it is emitting contains information aka intelligence. In the paper "DNA waves and water" that I told you about the information that the isolated DNA was emitting was its precise sequence of bases. Just Google "DNA waves and water" and you can verify this for yourself.
Best regards
Brad
Dasharath patel
Jun 17, 2016, 8:36:08 AM6/17/16
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Dear Brad,
I am rather surprised by your definition of life. You seem to believe that all the objects that emit EMR are qualified as living entities. I do not accept that definition as scientific just because someone published a paper somewhere. The scientific publications are mostly driven by the intention of profit making and they have an agenda to allow any crazy ideas to support their presumed stand on materialistic ideology. I accept things which sounds reasonable to me. Some on this list are also saying some crazy things that they even do not know whether mercury has some awareness or not. They even do not know a dead body is conscious or not. But we know what is the truth. We do not need scientists with many publications to give us only confusion "we do not know whether a dead body is conscious or not". If you do not know then listen those who know. When there will be steps towards honest practice in scientific research then only that enterprise will gain some authority. Now it is a confused system of knowledge due to its blind adherence to materialism.
Jonathan Post
Jun 17, 2016, 10:27:21 AM6/17/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com, dasharat...@gmail.com
Cats Utilize Physics? Study Says Cats Understand Physics And Use Law Of Cause And Effect To Detect Hiding Prey
14 June 2016, 10:41 pm EDT By Rhodi Lee Tech Times
Felines And Science: Cats Use Laws Of Physics To Hunt Prey
Cats have rudimentary understanding of the principle of cause and effect as well as the elements of physics. How does this help them when hunting for prey at night?
.
Humans are not the only creature capable of using science for real-life applications. Felines also have basic understanding of some elements of physics.
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A new study provides evidence that cats also have rudimentary concept of the laws of physics and the principle of cause and effect. The animal's keen sense of hearing along with application of these concepts allows them to more easily hunt for prey.
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Researchers in Japan wanted to know if cats can anticipate the presence of an invisible object in a box based on the sound produced by the container when it is shaken.
.
They also wanted to know if cats expect an object to fall from the box when the container is turned over so they conducted experiments involving 30 domestic cats.
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Saho Takagi, from Kyoto University in Japan, and colleagues shook boxes in front of the cats with and without a rattling sound. They also flipped over the boxes, only some of which yielded a dropped object.
.
Of the scenarios the researchers employed in the experiment, the rattling boxes that yielded an object and the silent boxes that did not yield anything complied with physics. The rattling boxes that did not yield a falling object and silent boxes that yielded an object defied the laws of physics.
.
Takagi and colleagues observed that cats tend to stare longer at rattling boxes during the experiment, which suggest that they correctly anticipated the presence of an object based on the container's rattling sound.
.
The felines also stared longer when a turned over box yielded unexpected results that defy the laws of physics.
.
Takagi explained that these animals use a causal-logical understanding of noise or sounds when predicting the presence of invisible objects.
.
"The results suggest that cats used a causal-logical understanding of auditory stimuli to predict the appearance of invisible objects," the researchers wrote in their study, which was published in the journal Animal Cognition on June 14.
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The researchers said that the species' environment likely affect their ability to find out information based on the sound that they hear, which means that the animal's natural hunting style may favor an ability to infer based on sounds.
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Cats often hunt at night, which makes their vision limited, so they often need to infer the location of their prey based on sounds alone.
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"The ecology of cats' natural hunting style may favor the ability for inference on the basis of sounds," Takagi and colleagues added.
.
© 2016 Tech Times, All rights reserved. Do not reproduce without permission.
.
Roger Clough
Jun 17, 2016, 10:47:50 AM6/17/16
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Intelligence is the ability to make free choices without outside help (such as a computer program) or hindrance.
roger clough
-Ever since Hume, science has imprisoned us in the dark cave of
materialism and empiricism and needs to restore us to the quantum
sunlight of plato (plotinus)
-- see my website https://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
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Jeremy Christian
Jun 17, 2016, 2:23:21 PM6/17/16
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This is certainly interesting, but is it not true of nearly all forms of life in one way or another? That's just a matter of learning and adapting to the environment. The environment IS physical. When a cat or a squirrel jumps from one tree limb to another they have to understand physics. A dog can and will do the same thing. My dog knows that squeaking noise is coming from something inside his toy, and will not cease until he digs it out and finds it. A frog, when snatching a fly out of the air, has to be able to anticipate where the fly will be in that moment. Is this not the same thing?
Ruth Kastner
Jun 21, 2016, 12:27:24 AM6/21/16
to online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Agreed, all animals have intelligence and insight into the way nature works.
Check out this amazing display of physical intelligence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij_5TMwqi4AFrom: online_sa...@googlegroups.com <online_sa...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jeremy Christian <jeremycc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 2:21 PM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 2:21 PM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Abdellatif Abujudeh
Jun 23, 2016, 2:19:11 PM6/23/16
to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Ruth and all
I appreciate your idea of clarification and connection of both to the sub-atomic level to put in your own words: "reflecting consciousness or potency at a fundamental level just as much as the the ZPF." The similarity, in their being based at the same level makes the confusion less. However the confusion would remain, for nobody can be sure of anything at the quantum level, as you say " highly non-classical, non-mechanical property".
But Ruth, I wonder how Bennett, Jayns, Davies and all theoreticians venture to theorize without evidence! Do they depend on equations and formulations ..etc. or on their lab experiments, or only speculate and give us some fiction. Whatever they say I compare with my own experience which is my CRITERION that I trust.
Sincerely
Abdu
Yes there is theoretical inconsistency in taking the ZPF as a real physical effect. Jaynes points this out quite explicitly in his paper.
But again, there is a real effect that 'appears' as though there is a ZPF. Read the Jaynes paper and the attached paper by Bennett for a clear account of how this effect arises far more elegantly in the direct-action theory. (Bennett's theory is not
100% empirically equivalent to quantum field theory, however the direct-action theory of Davies is. It depends on whether one allows for 'self-action' or not. In the Davies theory, 'self-action' is not 'self-energy'; it is really a self-force, which does not
result in problematic energy divergences that plague standard field theories.)
One can interpret the effect in the direct-action theory as a reflection of the fundamentally indeterministic tendency of charges to couple with one another by exchanging a photon (or other force carrier such as the color force). This is a highly non-classical,
non-mechanistic property, so it could be thought of as reflecting consciousness or potency at a fundamental level, just as much as the ZPF.
From: 'Asingh2384' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:15 PM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
The QM Zero-point field is about 12 orders of magnitude stronger than the Cosmological Constant governing the observed universe expansion. Such a high magnitude QM vacuum energy (Casimir Effect)
would rip apart the universe quickly, and hence does not match the observed universe behavior or Dark energy that is more accurately explained by Cosmological Constant of the relativity theory.
Best Regards
Avtar Singh, Sc.D.
Alumni, MIT
Author of "The Hidden Factor - An Approach for Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality"
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Abdellatif Abujudeh' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2016 11:38 am
From: 'Abdellatif Abujudeh' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2016 11:38 am
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Hi Dean, Ruth and all
Quantum mechanically speaking, I'd like to state that something like "a zero-point field' is being 'indeed' observed.
Abdu
All those effects (e.g. the Casimir effect) can be accounted for in terms of the direct-action theory rather than in terms of a zero-point field. This is what Jaynes points out in the paper I just sent.
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net
I thought that something like a zero-point force
was indeed measured.
- Chief Scientist, Institute of Noetic Sciences noetic.org
- Co-Editor-in-Chief, Explore explorejournal.com
On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Ruth Kastner <reka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Actually the existence of 'vacuum fluctuations' is a metaphysical assumption on the part of physicists. These may not exist at all. In a different interpretation, suggested by Jaynes, Wheeler/Feynman 1945 (and Wheeler 2003), and others, there is no real 'zero point field'.Instead there is an active tendency for charged quanta like electrons to couple with each other.See the attached paper by Jaynes for why reifying the uncertainty about field states as 'fluctuations' is arguably not warranted.Now, this alternative interpretation does not rule out the idea that consciousness is fundamental.(I subscribe the alternative view and I still view consciousness as fundamental--because I don't think Chalmer's 'hard problem' is solved by 'emergence' arguments. I think it has to be there in at least some potential sense from the beginning. )
I'm just noting that the zero point field is a common assumption that is not capable of being demonstrated conclusively; it's just one interpretation, based on a particular reading of the computational tool of quantum field theory.
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:29:27 -0700
From: mi...@athabascau.ca
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
CC: mjv...@pacbell.net; online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: Slime mold gives insight into intelligence of neuron-less organisms
Hi Avtar
it is more than just evidence of "universal consciousness," as you say, it is evidence for the direct influence of consciousness on (at least) animate matter.
m
Credit: C zuki70 / Fotolia
August 26 - 27, 2016, Bangalore University
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Ruth Kastner
Jun 23, 2016, 4:38:46 PM6/23/16
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Thanks.
The problem is that the ZPF is theorizing without evidence. What Jaynes, Bennett etc point out is that there is no unambiguous evidence for ZPF, since the phenomena are attributed to it are predicted by another theory as well--one which is empirically equivalent to the standard theory.
The ZPF is a metaphysical inference, since the 'evidence' adduced for it is also evidence for the direct-action theory. The evidence cannot tell us which theory is correct, so we have to use other criteria to decide (such as consistency, elegance, etc.)
From: 'Abdellatif Abujudeh' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 2:13 PM
Adam Moroz
Jul 6, 2021, 11:07:24 AM7/6/21
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Dear Colleague,
Hope you are keeping well and safe.
Few years ago we have communicated by few emails on some issues.
Recently I have developed few presentations on the role of extrema character of processes and the role of cooperativity/collectivity in bioevolution, which might be can be interesting for you.
Please see some my presentations on the YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjmoF3TamYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHcIWIqgHKo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIpkdgdMORw
Anyway, many thanks for some interest in the past.
With late apologies and kind regards
Adam Moroz
Amie van Wyk
Jul 7, 2021, 3:39:17 AM7/7/21
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Dear Adam
I bought a new computer and you have to refresh my mind on the topics we have discussed please. Where do you stay and what are your specialities?
Greetings
Amie van Wyk
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