What is it worth? 1919 Truck

[ttruck1919]

Am completely new to Model T's.
I have run across a restored 1919 Model T truck.
I believe it is a one ton. It has a wood flat bed body with wood stake
sides. Spokes are wood and it has the original 4 cylinder engine. Runs/
starts well and drives well.
My question is....
What is this worth?
The seller is asking $12,500
I need some knowledgeable assistance to negotiate, and I need to know
what others think.
Of course, I realize that the real value is in it's value to me, but I
need some pointers.
Help...Please!
Bill

[bill_d]

Your statement is the best and is true. It is worth what you are
happy with. Bill D.

[ford...@aol.com]

Bill,

1.  I would think $12,500 for a 1919 Model TT would be higher than most folks would value a TT.  If it has some exceptional accessories (such as a period overhead valve cylinder head, Hemco accessory transmission cover), and is restored to a very high standard or is documented as some important historical truck then it might be more than 12,500.  But in general – I don’t recall seeing many TT trucks advertised for $12,500 and folks saying – darn, I just missed it. 

 

2.  I generally recommend that folks purchase a Model T NOT as a financial investment but as an investment in fun and meeting folks with similar interest.   While old cars in general tend to hold there value and go up -- you don't want to be disappointed if they do not.  (The 1970s muscle cars were appreciating a lot more the last time I checked the old car market.  The Model Ts appreciate some but I anticipate more and more of=2 0them will be coming up on the market as the "Greatest Generation" passes away.  I know my Dad's cars would have been sold if I had not wanted them.  I'm sort of emotionally attached to them -- most of the ones I have a NOT a great financial investment -- but they do have a lot of great memories.  (For the memories story see:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/10844.html ). 

  

3.  I would recommend you not rush into purchasing a Model T or Model TT truck before you have had a chance to look at several that are for sale and had a chance to ride in and drive a few.  A short ride in a few vehicles will give you a lot better feel for how they perform.  The words slow (T) and slower (TT) come to mind.  How you plan to use the vehicle should have a big impact on what type of vehicle you want. 

 

3.a.  Based on your future plans – if you primarily want to trailer the vehicle to parades and then drive the T or TT in the parade – the TT with the lower gearing and room to put displays, float riders, etc. on the back might be the better choice.  But again

 

3.b.  If you want to drive any distance more than 30 miles the T will serve you a lot better.  Both are considered hard riding antiques compared to modern cars.  We had a club member that loved his 1912 touring but as he grew older and his arthritis got worse, he stopped enjoying riding in his T because it physically was uncomfortable.  And a TT is even a stiffer ride than a T. 

 

3.c.  If you want something to “putts” around the neighborhood either would work fine (ok assuming a low s peed traffic neighborhood and not one with lots of 45 mph drivers).  If you have a farm and want to haul stuff the TT is the better choice. 

 

3.d.  If you are single and don’t want to take other people for rides, a single seat racer body works great.  If you have 4 grand kids and you want to take all of them at one time then a touring, depot hack, or sedan (they had different versions), or town car would be a better choice.  You can pile them all in the back of the truck bed – but depending on the kids and how high the sides are – it is often nicer to have a seat with a door helping to keep them all in. 

 

3.e.  An enclosed car is nice if the weather is bad – but do you plan to drive your T when the weather is bad?   If not – then that probably isn’t as high a priority as if you were going to drive it in the sleet and snow. 

 

3.f.  Are you a good woodworker ?  Then a chassis with a wooden speedster, depot hack etc. might be just the thing for you (see Wagon Works: used to have a web site at:   http://members.aol.com/wagonwork2/  but AOL shut down that service.  But they still sell plans for making depot hacks etc.  Including one for a TT chassis). 

 

3.g.  Do you want something that will keep up with modern traffic or at least get out of the way of modern traffic?  If so a modified engine and better brakes with a light chassis (speedster or roadster) would be something to consider. 

 

4.  In general I would recommend joining the local T club, see what the different cars and trucks are like.  Let them know what you are looking for.  Don’t get in a hurry (they made 15,000,000 plus Ts and they come up for sale often compared to 1908 Model S Coupes that they made approximately 28 of.  If you have the choice between a new model that drives nice and an older model that needs lots of work – I would suggest the newer one that drives nice.  You can enjoy it, learn a lot from it, and if you decide you want to obtain an early car or truck you can do that and either sell the first one or “ta-dah” you have two Model Ts now.  And in general for a first T I would recommend a T over a TT unless you have a compelling reason to chose the TT.  The T in gene ral is easier to park in a normal garage, takes up less room, is easier to obtain parts for (the engine and transmissions are the same in both but body parts, wheels, etc.)  And it is easier to drive.

 

5.  Below is a posting from 2003 which gives a good summary of Model T Prices:   

 

Model T Price List

Ignoring the impossibility of such a request, I submit my observations in the hope that they may provide some orientation to some uninitiated soul who would like some guidance without having to become an expert.

Model T Values - Thumbnail sketch, in United States 48 contiguous states as of Monday 10 March 2003:

Cars and original depot hacks and pie wagons 1917-27:

Parts car only, not restorable: <$1000 (Steve Braymen)

Not complete, restorable with a lot of work, engine may or may not run: $1,000 (Steve Braymen)
Mostly complete, correct, disassembled, restorable: $2,000.
Mostly complete, correct, recently assembled, restorable: $2,500.
Complete, correct, never disassembled, restorable: $3,500.

Runs, drives, correct, needs total restoration $4,500 (Steve Braymen)
Runs and drives, mostly correct, looks like a 10 year old used car: $6,000.
Everything works, not correct (wrong year engine, etc.), looks decent: $6,000.
Everything works, almost all correct, looks decent: $7,500.
Show room condition, correct,=2 0needs nothing functionally or cosmetically: $10,000.
Completely "restored" but with incorrect "upgrades" such as pre-1919 starter, incorrect accessories, etc.: $10,000 but buyers will be a different group than previous item.
Rip van Wrinkle: Car stored inside since new, less than 1000 miles: $20,000.
Complete factory type restoration, every nut and bolt reconditioned, completely correct: Ought to be worth $20,000, but the market will not pay much more than $12,000.

Trucks other than original pie wagons: Deduct 50%.
Depot hacks, reproduction bodies: Deduct 50%.
Speedsters, reproduction bodies: Deduct 50%.
Town cars with original bodies: Add 100%.
Pre-1917: Add $1000 for each year down to 1909.

Body only: 60% of the value of the car.
Chassis only: 40% of the value of the car.

Generally, cars needing total restoration are overpriced because they are a liability, not an asset, and the cost of restoring them far exceeds their finished value. Unfair, but true. Generally, cars restored with thousands of hours of expert work are under-priced, but no one will pay their true value. Unfair , but true.

If you want to make money restoring cars, the best way to do it is to buy a car that is complete, original, basically sound, but does not run. Spend 50 hours and $500 on it fixing only what is broken and give it a nice paint job so that when you're done it runs, everything works, and it looks decent, and advertise it for twice what you paid for it.

If you want to do it right [partial translation: take everything completely apart], forget about making money. Subsidize it with your regular job. Buy a good working car to enjoy until you get this one done. It will take longer than you thought. It will cost more than you thought.

It is impossible to restore any part without complete dismantling. You never know what you have until you take it apart.

Caution: For any car that has been "restored" request a photographic record of each stage, and information on the experience, background, and motivation of the restorer. The word means ten different things to ten different people.
 
David Grant Stewart, Sr.                               (303) 670-1375
28089 Pine Drive                                     &nb sp;     dste...@amnix.com
Evergreen, Colorado 84039

 

6.  Additionally there are price guides that can give you some ideas of what cars and trucks have been selling for.  Also look at the cars that have been selling on e-bay; MTFCA swap shop http://mtfca.com/showit1/index.html ; http://www.modelthaven.com/cars1.html (today they didn’t have any restored cars on the site – but usually they will have a couple of restored or driver type cars every month or two); http://www.hcca.org/sellit.html sometimes has a T listed; http://www.hemmings.com/ has lots of Model Ts20listed for sale every month.  The TT trucks are under the truck section and the Model Ts are at the beginning of the Ford section under the “F” section of cars for sale.

 

Good luck with your search and decision.  Feel free to join the next local meeting – you will see a lot of cars and often times trucks and be able to make a better judgment about what you like. 

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout.  Sumter SC. 

-----Original Message-----
0AFrom: ttruck1919 <ws6...@gmail.com>
To: Model T Ford Forum <Model-T-F...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 6:31 pm
Subject: [ModelTFordForum:371] What is it worth? 1919 Truck

---

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[William Simmons]

Thank you very much.
Your info and suggestions are right on the mark.
Bill

[bill_d]

Bill Look at the 1917 truck on eBay starting at $6000

Ford : Model T DEPOT HACK 1917 Vintage and VERY rare DePot Hack
electric start

[William Simmons]

Thanks!

Bill D.