Stenographic script

[Travis Mckenzie]

I thought I'd start a discussion dedicated to Gajewski's stenographic script.

Obviously, I am interested due to my plan to use the symbolic form of solresol in my novel. I am interested in the way it is written, and the limitations of its structure, but I hope others will be interested too for its own sake, as it is a very interesting form of written language.

My first question is pretty simple: what are the rules?

Is the only information here: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/solresol.htm ??

And if so, is that enough to extrapolate everything from?

Essentially, I really want to know how to combine the 4 syllable words. Do you shorten the glyphs to keep everything on one line, or do you let the symbols go down the page a little?

Example:

That is the word for fisherman, and there are 3 different ways I can see to write it. I like version 1 the best, but is there anything I'm missing? 

Can I assume that there are 2 "lines" essentially that the letters must go into -- kind of like lower and upper case lines for english? 

Also, I was wondering, one of the rules say that any double syllable is struck through. What then is the difference between rere and solsol? Both would look like a simple cross, or do you make the strike through mark much smaller?

And is there any way to add accents to the script as in the original Falâmisol? Or do I just put the accents mark above the first crescent? that seems messy.

Okay, thats enough to start with.

Travis.

[Dan Parson]

The page that you link to appears to summarize the part of the English
translation of Sudre's "Grammar of Solresol" found here:
http://mozai.com/writing/not_mine/solresol/#ecrit

According to the grammar, the signs must be connected, with spaces
only between words. There's no rule stated on how to connect them, but
to me, words appear to build rightward and downward (meaning you
connect the bottom or right end of the first sign to the top or left
end of the second sign). Therefore, in my opinion, the leftmost (and
middle) version in your image is correct. However, limiting words to
two lines wouldn't work with this method, since multiple "la"s would
push a word beyond two lines.

As far as the striking through for a double syllable, again this is my
opinion, but the examples given appear to make the strikethrough
smaller than the strokes used for the actual syllables in the word.
The actual size of the strokes is varied between the examples, but I
think a smaller stroke for double syllable is a safe bet.

There doesn't appear to be any defined handling of accents, so perhaps
that's where we come in. Maybe a circle, square, triangle, or half-
shape in the middle of a stroke could be candidates for accents.

In any case, I suppose the "correct" answers depend on whether we want
to stay true to the creator's words, agree on one interpretation of
ambiguous parts, or outright change some aspects of the language.

On Aug 7, 2:32&nbsp;am, Travis Mckenzie <teachertra...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> &nbsp;falamisol.png
> 50KViewDownload

On Aug 7, 2:32&nbsp;am, Travis Mckenzie <teachertra...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> &nbsp;falamisol.png
> 50KViewDownload

[Garrison]

I think everything that's been said basically covers all the rules we know of (and I think that's all we really need, with the exception of accents). 

Also, it seems that there are often multiple ways of writing words. Take the example of Sisol, which our examples show with the primary direction going down (Si on top, Sol on bottom), but if I were to write the word, my instinct would be to go primarily from left to right, as it's written in the middle of "misisoldo". The point being that I think both of these are valid ways to write the same word. 

I uploaded an image that is the most Solresol text I've ever seen in one place, mostly written with the stenographic script... Unfortunately whoever wrote it doesn't seem to be using the definitions of either Sudre or Gajewski... I've been working a bit on translating it, and it's not working out too well. Evidence from where I got it suggests it should be a translation of Ithaca by Kavafis.

As far as accents - I would just write them above, beside, or below the syllable, and try to make it clear which syllable it's referring to. Otherwise, I think the language can often be fairly clear without accents. (as it would be with colors, numbers, hand signals... i.e. many of the ways it's meant to be expressed).

[McFrenzy]

Thanks.

That makes things much clearer. I agree that we should forget about
accents, as it messes up what is otherwise a clean script. That last
page of translation is great, as it gives lots of examples and shows
how solresol looks on mass. I can envisage a scroll of spells now!

Travis.

[M O]

OMG! Gar, where’d you find this text? I’m loving just looking at the color “text”! This rocks! :D

[Garrison]

Haha! I like it too :D

I found it a long time ago, and it was on the website of whoever made it, but it seems to have disappeared there. I can only find it in other people's references to it.

If anyone can make sense of it, that'd be cool :) It might not be possible though.

[Travis Mckenzie]

Okay, so I had a little go trying to stylise the script... what do you guys think?

--
Here is the copy of my soul I uploaded to google. Come and say hello. It is fully interactive.

[Travis Mckenzie]

Also, just a thought, but the one symbol that really sucks is Do. The circle is impossible to connect neatly with anything as it ends where it starts.

What does everyone think about a small spiral instead?

[Garrison Osteen]

Wow, that looks amazing! I love it. 

I like 'Do' well enough, I think you're allowed to connect the other lines pretty much anywhere you want to on it (Dodore could just as easily have 're' coming out of the bottom). But what do you mean by a small spiral? If it was recognizable as 'Do' and didn't look like other symbols were connecting to it, I think it would probably be fine. 

[Garrison Osteen]

Also, just a comment, but I think the last "Famimifa" would look more natural with the strike-through going either vertically or at an angle.

[Travis Mckenzie]

Yeah, the strike through can be tricky. 

I love how malleable the script can be, so perhaps the strikethrough can be done differently to fit the symbol. 

As far as a spiral goes, I was thinking of something like this....

The spiral has a start and an end, so it would be easier to run on when writing. Primarily, the scrip is meant for hand writing, and in my mind it would speed things up.... but what does everyone else think?

[Garrison]

To be honest, I don't really like it... I'm quite fond of the circle :)

It doesn't seem like the circle is actually that hard to write; it just sometimes requires picking up the pen/pencil, like dotting an i or crossing a t. And I don't think any of us are actually writing fast enough for it to be slowing us down :)  But the spiral just (to me) isn't obviously the same symbol, and it can sometimes resemble a "la", and it crossing through itself in some cases isn't congruous with the feel of the writing. 

Non of that is empirical reasoning, it's just a vague feeling that I have. Of course, if you want to use a stylized version (like a spiral instead of a circle) for the map on your book, you're completely welcome to. :) I'm not gonna stand in the way of a population of wizards.

(oh, and I do think that the strikethrough can be made to suit each symbol individually).

Also, one last thing that's bothering me - who is that sideways, shadowy figure in your photo?? :D

[Travis Mckenzie]

Cool. Fair enough. And I think you are right about the circles. Connecting lines to different points of the 'do' really helps. 

And the shadowy figure is a photocopy of some old guy.... I picked up the closest piece of paper the other day, and it happened to be one of my student's old attempts at a stencil project. Didn't even notice it until you pointed it out... weird.

Okay, back to work.

Travis.

[Garrison Osteen]

Again, use it if you like it better. I'm just speaking for myself.

(That's funny about the guy on the paper... haha)

[Travis Mckenzie]

So here are two examples.... the first is with the traditional do circle.

And this next is with a spiral...

I am not suggesting that we make the official stenographic script a spiral, just wether i'd get away with it in my book. I want it mainly because spirals are cool. I've tried writing both ways, and it really makes no difference to speed or flow.

Any thoughts? Any major problems other than the ones Garrison already pointed out?

As a side note, how cool is it that the solresol for the green or "earth Wizard" looks like a tree, and the solresol for red wizard looks like a bolt of energy and the one for blue wizard looks like a wave? I like synchronicity like this a lot.

Travis

 

[M O]

I'm for keeping the circle in the "official" script, but for your book, I think you can get away with using the spiral/stylizing it. Or if not, you could just call it the Australian dialect of Solresol :)

[Garrison Osteen]

Haha, "The Australian Dialect" :D

I like that spiral quite a lot; I think you could definitely get away with it. You could also just use the spiral where it looked better and use the circle where it looked better, and probably get away with that to. 

(I also like it when the symbols have some symbolism in them, for example "dore" (I, me) resembles a head and body of a stick person)

Oh, also, could you post the link to the new sheet you made for the names and images? The link above just took me to the old one.

[Garrison]

(Oh, and I'm also for keeping the circle official, as I think I implied earlier)