Re: Slow-Starting Yeast

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Alexandre Enkerli

May 1, 2005, 8:54:14 AM5/1/05
Le 01 mai 2005, à 07:07, Henry Scott a écrit :

> So far (it has now been 8 hours) nothing is happening.
Eight hours isn't that long. You can wait.

> Should I go ahead and add the yeast pack that came with the kit?
You could eventually but you can wait a bit longer.

> Is there any chance that the yeastie beasties will wake from their
> slumber at this point?
Yes but you have just a bit of yeast ad the pack didn't really swell.

AleX in Ann Arbor, MI
[0,0] Apparent Rennerian

Jeffrey Sutter

May 1, 2005, 11:50:47 AM5/1/05
to Ali Ishaq, Alexandre Enkerli, Henry Scott, Jeffrey Sutter,

Here's one answer:
and another
...perhaps 20 to 30. ?


At 09:50 AM 5/1/2005, Ali Ishaq wrote:

>Yesterday I racked the Russian Imperial Stout. The SG had dropped from
>1.101 to
>1.044. What do you guys think would be an optimal time in the secondary. Since
>the alchol level is already around 8.5%, how much lower should the SG go
>we bottle it?

south bend, indiana
father to maia, b. 7/9/95, who says "I'm so glad to be me, dad."

Jeffrey Sutter

May 1, 2005, 3:51:29 PM5/1/05
to Ali Ishaq, Alexandre Enkerli, Henry Scott,

Not when they say FG ~1.030, seems to me.

The "Amer. Imperial IPA " (I can't find it in the BJCP) is at 1.028 (from
~1.082), and I may siphon to secondary tonight.


At 12:26 PM 5/1/2005, Ali Ishaq wrote:
>According to both these sites, the beer is ready, because it is already near
>the middle of the finishing SG and Alc% ranges. SG = 1.044 and Alc % is 8.5.

Alexandre Enkerli

May 1, 2005, 5:38:32 PM5/1/05
to, Henry Scott, Ali Ishaq
[Sorry, I was on the road... Great trip, including for beer.]

Wow! Got a few messages there... Of course, you guys should really be
on the list...

Henry: did you see signs of fermentation? You don't need bubbles but
you expect some foam on top of the wort. If not, you could/should pitch
Nott fairly soon.

Jeff: the links you gave are for the outdated version of the BJCP
guidelines which don't include IIPA:
With 66% attenuation and an SG of 1028, your beer's pretty much on the
For the ESB, you're certainly safe with Nott. It won't give you exactly
the same character but, at least, it will probably take off quickly and
the yeast is appropriate for the beer.

Ali: 1.044 is very heavy. According to my calculation, you have 7.6%
ABV which is quite decent but not even in the range where you need an
alcohol tolerant yeast, AFAIK. And you have only 56% attenuation. Can't
remember which yeast you used but you expect at least 60-some%
attenuation. Would be surprised to have 80% attenuation (yeast gets
tired after a while, in huge beers), but wouldn't be surprised at all
with 70% (FG of 1.030, at the top of the range for the style
<>). In this case,
because you started so high, you might in fact finish a bit higher than
that. But not much. And, BTW, those guidelines usually don't imply that
"it's ok if you have the ABV." In fact, some versions only mentioned OG
and expected normal fermentation, around 70–75% attenuation.
I mean, some historical styles weren't very attenuated but you have
yeast that will go further. If you bottle it at such a high gravity,
you're almost guaranteed to have bottle bombs, have the beer be all
foam, etc. In fact, because this beer is so huge (it's really, really
big), the very best results you will achieve if you wait as long as you
can. A couple of months would certainly help quite a bit and it can in
fact be quite long. Once it's in bottle, it'll age very nicely. It
might be quite a bit harsh at first but will be amazing after a year...
When you bottle, try to bottle in small bottles, as much as possible.
That way, you'll be able to sample it more frequently and at around 10%
(as this one might get to) it might be a bit treacherous. One of the
beauties of aging beer is that every one will be different.

As for the Mongrel Ale, could you give us details? Taste, OG,
ingredients, yeast...


AleX in South Bend, IN
[129.7mi, 251.5] Apparent Rennerian

Alexandre Enkerli

May 1, 2005, 5:55:41 PM5/1/05
to, Ali Ishaq
Le 01 mai 2005, à 16:47, Henry Scott a écrit :

> No signs of fermentation yet.
Ok, I think it's a good time to pitch Nott.

> we ended up putting my IPA wort into a 6.5 gallon carboy.
Carboys are great. One thing is, be sure to use a blow-off tube instead
of an airlock. And make sure the blow-off tube isn't constricted.

> The carboy is not graduated, and I'm not sure if I'm actually up to
> the five gallon mark...
You can calculate volume by measuring the dimensions...

> the OG and it is pretty high: 1.058.
Well, it doesn't seem very high to me. It's in fact near the bottom of
the BJCP range for American IPA. What did the instruction sheet say
that the OG would be?

> time to relax and have a homebrew ;)

Alexandre Enkerli

May 2, 2005, 12:09:00 AM5/2/05
to Ali Ishaq,
[BTW, Ali, you're the only one in this conversation who isn't in the
Google Group...]

Le 01 mai 2005, à 22:12, Ali Ishaq a écrit :

> Recipe for about 6.5 Gallons
Oh, ok!

> Cool and add spring water from the tap to the mixture to bring the SG
> to 1.05
Not too bad. I thought it might be higher because of the molasses...

> Dump in all the Hefe Weizen yeast
Oh! Nice!

Speaking of repitching...
Jeff Renner and I had your Dunkel mit weizen hefe...
He said that he was fairly similar to some of his first batches but had
a more interesting character, in part because of the banana aroma and

> Alex, do you think it was a good time for the Imperial Stout to go
> into the secondary?
I probably would have waited longer but it shouldn't be a problem. Did
the yeast completely recede in the wort?
If the yeast was healthy (and it seemed to be), you should lose several
points. In fact, I think that some people advocate racking once the
fermentation is 75–80% complete. If you got 56% out of, say, 70%
expected total attenuation, you racked at 80% of the attenuation, which
sounds quite ok. At least, to me.
The main thing with racking is that the wort shouldn't stay on the
yeast for too long after active fermentation is complete as you might
get autolysis:
The "too long" is a hard one to judge. There are rules of thumb but I
think they may be a bit misleading.
Honestly, and I feel weird about this, I still haven't completely
figured this one out (when to rack).
Actually, I did get some autolysis-like flavor in one beer and it
hadn't stayed on the yeast too long. But maybe I had overpitched (too
much yeast, which is kind of hard to do in the homebrewery).

> I am very willing to let it stay in secondary for another month or
> more.
As you have more than one carboy and enough space in your basement, my
advice is to fuggedaboutit for a while.

The best tactic is probably not to worry about it. At all.

Relax, Don't Panic, Have a Pan-Galactic Gargleblaster!

AleX Dent

Alexandre Enkerli

May 2, 2005, 12:17:13 AM5/2/05
to Ali Ishaq,
Just thought about this:

> Recipe for about 6.5 Gallons...bring the SG to 1.05
That explains it for the molasses addition. You didn't really gain in
OG but you gained 1.5gal of beer with just a pound of molasses. Makes
And how did it taste????????? ??? ?


Alexandre Enkerli

May 2, 2005, 1:03:38 PM5/2/05
to Ali Ishaq,
One thing I didn't mention before. It's not a good strategy to use
twist-offs for strong beers that you want to keep. It's perfectly ok
for beers that you drink fairly soon (I haven't had a problem yet) but
keeping beers should be bottled in sturdy, dark, non-twist-off bottles.

Jeffrey Sutter

May 2, 2005, 1:05:40 PM5/2/05

If anyone needs help emptying Grolsch bottles, give me a call.


Jeffrey Sutter

May 2, 2005, 5:25:05 PM5/2/05

Pruno, a prison wine created from fruit, sugar and ketchup, is such a vile
and despicable beast in the California state penal system that prisoners
can't eat fresh fruit at lunch....

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