Final thoughts on the banner

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Rodney Abke

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May 1, 2013, 12:19:13 PM5/1/13
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Everyone seemed to like the last design i sent.  I took Anthony's logo and traced it in AutoCAD and reprinted it as a TIFF file (see Attached) so the lines would be more distinct on the banner.

Do we want a 2 foot by 5 foot banner or a 2 foot by 6 foot banner?  I'm thinking a 2 x 5 because the fold-up tables i measured were 5 or 6 feet long. The 2X5 is about $34 (including shipping) and the 2x6 is about $40 (including shipping).

The website at esigns.com says it takes about a week to get it.  We have  enough pledges to pitch in to pay for it.  Each pledgee would put in $5.

If we got extra pledges, I could buy some PVC and make a stand for it that could be setup in front of the table or behind the table and above our heads.

Let me know in the next couple of days if you have any thought.  I'll probably place the order on friday.   

It should be here in time for the next meeting.  I can bring it to the meeting so everyone can see it before Mini-Maker Faire.
MIROBOTCLUB_LOGO-Layout1.tif

Paul Haas

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May 1, 2013, 2:01:07 PM5/1/13
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That's just the logo, right? There is still going to be the text, "Michigan Robot Club" and the URL. I forgot whether we decided to promote "mirobotclub.org" or "mirobotclub.com".


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Rodney Abke

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May 1, 2013, 2:10:12 PM5/1/13
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Paul
Yes, that is just the revised logo.  

it will look like this attached file with the name and URL (2x5').  I was think using .org because that's more along the lines of what the club is.  But, if we want to promote .com, it can been easily changed before i place the order.
MIrobotCLub banner DRAFT.png

Paul Haas

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May 1, 2013, 2:49:02 PM5/1/13
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That looks nice to me.

James Ronald

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May 1, 2013, 5:45:20 PM5/1/13
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Well the dot org would be the correct one to use but people have a
habit of using the dot com. I think that when we voted on the name we
picked the dot com plus it is the cheaper of the two. Also do you
think that it would be easier to read if we camel case it
www.MiRobotClub.com.

Rodney Abke

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May 1, 2013, 9:26:02 PM5/1/13
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Ok,
Attached is the revised with Jims suggestions.
MIrobotCLub banner DRAFT.png

James Ronald

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May 1, 2013, 10:39:00 PM5/1/13
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I like it... What does everyone else think? If the
www.MiRobotClub.com looks crowded we could drop the www subdomain
portion.

- Jim

Rodney Abke

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May 2, 2013, 7:11:14 AM5/2/13
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How about this?
MIrobotCLub banner DRAFT.png

James Ronald

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May 2, 2013, 9:15:55 AM5/2/13
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I like it... What does everyone else think?

Mark Meier

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May 2, 2013, 11:01:33 AM5/2/13
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I think it looks good. Removing www and going with camel case helped a lot.

Mark

Roger James

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May 2, 2013, 11:12:40 AM5/2/13
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Looks great!

Chris O'Donnell

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May 2, 2013, 11:14:49 AM5/2/13
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Yes, looks sharp, easy to see/understand.

Keith Mc

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May 2, 2013, 1:48:17 PM5/2/13
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Sorry for not replying sooner (life... what are you gonna do? ;-)

I've done a lot of DTP work for industry before. Several comments:

1) I strongly DISLIKE the blue gradient against the blue lettering
for the contact data. The contrast is horrible, making the contact
data difficult to read (esp at a distance). That violates one of the
basic readability tenets of DTP advertising layout. Secondly, it also
draws attention AWAY from the icon, when that is really the desired
focal point. Can we please drop the gradient?

Suggestion: IMO, if you ARE going to use a background effect
it makes a lot more sense to me to do a vignette "sunburst" around
the LOGO.to highlight THAT, and leave the contact data
a nice high contrast blue on white or black on white.

IOW, take the left 1/3 and create a simple blue "sunburst" vignette
gradient around the logo That would work MUCH better to
highlight it, than a LR white-dark_blue gradient.
IOW Make a dark blue square in the left 1/3 of the banner.
Add a white "sunburst hole in middle". Drop in the logo into
the white hole. Bonus: A dark blue vignette burst left 1/3 and
a white right 2/3 also then makes the banner look MUCH more
"flag-like", as that is a very standard flag format.

2) Is it possible to please thicken up the lines on the robot logo icon a bit?
That would make it more pronounced, again especially when viewed
at a distance. The robot frame is very dim, when compared to the
rest of the layout. (Move away and view it... The robot features
almost disappear.)

3) Submission format: Normally, you always want the image generated
in Postscript for submitting to printers. Otherwise, as you can see on
the sample, the lines start getting aliasing effects (jaggies and brighness
ripples). If you look closely at the icon lines, you can already see the
aliasing effects. BTW... If it is NOT generated and submitted in Postscript,
the printer will often run it through yet another conversion step.
That often causes your arrived banner to be much different than
what you thought it should look like. (A painful lesson from industry).

4) Color count - You are currently running three colors on the icon
(yellow black blue). Do we really need that? Normally banners are charged
by the number of colors used, both for setup and for printing (# of screens
generated), so it may be cheaper if we drop at least one color.
Suggestion: black and blue are almost redundant as they're both
"dim" colors. One can be substituted for the other. FYI, in "color psychology"
blue over white is considered "friendlier" than black over white (note that
a lot of biz cards eg IBM use that). OTOH, black over white is "sharper"
for line demarcation.

Now if color count doesn't matter to cost and you ARE going to go with three
colors, I'd suggest making the robot all black with yellow highlighting, and
do the contact data (and/or a vignette sunburst) in blue. For two color,
I'd simply do the robot outline, vignette, and contact data in dark blue,
and keep the Robot Club in yellow.

5) Cost savings possibility - Steve Martin at the Ypsi FIRST robotic team
has access to a banner printer at EMU. I can ask him what it would cost
us to have it made there. It may be a LOT cheaper than having it
done commercially.

Overall, I think you are on the right track. We just want to insure that
a) this is VERY readable from a distance,
b) we're not doing anything that compromises the quality of the output, and
c) focus is placed on the right elements of the banner.

- Keith Mc.

James Ronald

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May 2, 2013, 2:49:43 PM5/2/13
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Rod,

I think that the current design will meet our needs and the price
good. I think that does Keith have some good points that we should
consider for future efforts.

- Jim

James Ronald

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May 2, 2013, 2:55:35 PM5/2/13
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Keith,

Sorry, too much info too late in the game. I don't think that we want
to start over...

Thanks for your input.

- Jim

Keith Mc

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May 2, 2013, 4:24:42 PM5/2/13
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Jim wrote:
>Keith,
> Sorry, too much info too late in the game. I don't think that we want to start over...
> Thanks for your input.

I wasn't suggesting a start-over, but OK.
You still should first verify the submission format is compatible.

I'd also suggest at least deleting the background blue gradient
(or changing the font to a "white shadow" one), for better readability.
That's an easy fix.

Lastly, if you all wish to pay for this instead of my checking to see if we can
do it cheaper locally, that's totally up to you. I was just offering to investigate it.

- Keith Mc.

Rodney Abke

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May 7, 2013, 6:24:18 PM5/7/13
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Everyone,
I have tried to address some of the things listed below, but Some of them i can't do.
 1) I strongly DISLIKE the blue gradient against the blue lettering
> for the contact data.  The contrast is horrible, making the contact
> data difficult to read (esp at a distance). That violates one of the
> basic readability tenets of DTP advertising layout.  Secondly, it also
> draws attention AWAY from the icon, when that is really the desired
> focal point.  Can we please drop the gradient?

RA: Everyone previously LIKED the gradient.  However, i have attached three versions of the banner which a different background.  I WILL order one of these by friday.  If you have any minor suggestion, please let me know.


>
> Suggestion: IMO, if you ARE going to use a background effect
> it makes a lot more sense to me to do a vignette "sunburst" around
> the LOGO.to highlight THAT, and leave the contact data
> a nice high contrast blue on white or black on white.

RA: See attachment. I used the esigns.com online tool to creat these so i have a limited range of things i can do.
>

> IOW, take the left 1/3 and create a simple blue "sunburst" vignette
> gradient  around the logo That would work MUCH better to
> highlight it, than a LR white-dark_blue gradient.
> IOW Make a dark blue square in the left 1/3 of the banner.
> Add a white "sunburst hole in middle".  Drop in the logo into
> the white hole.   Bonus: A dark blue vignette burst left 1/3 and
> a white right 2/3 also then makes the banner look MUCH more
> "flag-like", as that is a very standard flag format.

RA: Dito last statement.  If you can do this using esigns.com online tool. please create it and send it to the list for consideration.

>
> 2) Is it possible to please thicken up the lines on the robot logo icon a bit?
> That would make it more pronounced, again especially when viewed
> at a distance.  The robot frame is very dim, when compared to the
> rest of the layout.  (Move away and view it... The robot features
> almost disappear.)

RA: Anthony did if fine job creating the logo.  All i did was bring his logo into AutoCad and traced it.  I tried to keep it looks as close to Anthony's original design as possible.  I tried to thicken the lines, but when i exported it from AutoCad they did not reflect the wide lines.

>
> 3) Submission format:  Normally, you always want the image generated
> in Postscript for submitting to printers.  Otherwise, as you can see on
> the sample, the lines start getting aliasing effects (jaggies and brighness
> ripples). If you look closely at the icon lines, you can already see the
> aliasing effects.   BTW... If it is NOT generated and submitted in Postscript,
> the printer will often run it through yet another conversion step.
> That often causes your arrived banner to be much different than
> what you thought it should look like.  (A painful lesson from industry).

RA: I was able to export the logo in a postscript format which is one of the acceptable formats for the esigns.com tool.  NOTE: the attached files and all previous files are just SCREEN Shots from the tool. The lettering and background were created in the online tool, so that stuff should print correctly. 

> 4) Color count - You are currently running three colors on the icon
> (yellow black blue).  Do we really need that?  Normally banners are charged
> by the number of colors used,  both for setup and for printing (# of screens
> generated), so it may be cheaper if we drop at least one color.
> Suggestion: black and blue are almost redundant as they're both
> "dim" colors. One can be substituted for the other.   FYI, in "color psychology"
> blue over white is considered "friendlier" than black over white (note that
> a lot of biz cards eg IBM use that).  OTOH, black over white is "sharper"
> for line demarcation.
>
> Now if color count doesn't matter to cost and you ARE going to go with three
> colors, I'd suggest making the robot all black with yellow highlighting, and
> do the contact data (and/or a vignette sunburst) in blue.   For two color,
> I'd simply do the robot outline, vignette, and contact data in dark blue,
> and keep the Robot Club in yellow.

RA: Everyone seemed to like the white/blue.  The yellow in the logo was in Anthony's original design.  The color count does not affect the price.


> 5) Cost savings possibility - Steve Martin at the Ypsi FIRST robotic team
> has access to a banner printer at EMU.  I can ask him what it would cost
> us to have it made there.  It may be a LOT cheaper than having it
> done commercially.

RA: If you can get better than $30 (includes shipping) for 2x5 foot banner at EMU, get a quote before friday.

> Overall, I think you are on the right track.  We just want to insure that
> a) this is VERY readable from a distance,
> b) we're not doing anything that compromises the quality of the output, and
> c) focus is placed on the right elements of the banner.
>
> - Keith Mc.


RA: Vote, for design 1, 2, or 3 if you have a preference, otherwise we are going with #1.

thanks
Rod



- Keith Mc.

1.png
2.png
3.png

James Ronald

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May 7, 2013, 7:03:57 PM5/7/13
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Rod,

I still like 1.png best.

Also, I stumbled upon a 10% off promo from esigns.com. The promo code
is: SAVE10R

Thanks for all your work.

- Jim

Anthony Witcher

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May 7, 2013, 8:45:58 PM5/7/13
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I like Design 1. 
This whole design issues may not be 'perfect'. Rod is volunteering to do the project.
This is not a job he 'must' or has to do. so I think he is doing the best as he can do.
I didn't 'pick' yellow. Something happened along the way, and I am not worrying
about it.

Anthony


-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney Abke <cybe...@gmail.com>
To: MI ROBOT CLUB <MiRob...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 7, 2013 6:24 pm
Subject: Re: [MiRobotClub] Final thoughts on the banner

Keith Mc

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May 8, 2013, 11:20:57 AM5/8/13
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Heck... Since color count no longer matters to cost, what the hey... I remove my concern.

Personally, my primary complaint about the original is that the gradient
is the same color as the text, making it difficult to read.
If you can simply change the gradient to YELLOW, then you get
a very nice contrast and I'm fine with it. (done)

Rod wrote:
> If you can do this using esigns.com online tool. please create it and send it to the list for consideration.

Well OK, if you insist. Building on Anthony's and Rod's GREAT groundwork,
here's proposed Banner #4... Bear with me, this was done in just a few
minutes, so I have not yet done anything with the Jaggies or line thickening, et al..

I saved a version on esigns as MiRC_Banner_4, but I don't know items
survive from session to session, or can be accessed by other users.

I'm attaching the sunburst and sunburst logo elements here, for your use.
I'm losing resolution so you may wish to recreate the sunburst logo by
sticking a fresher copy of the robot image over the plain sunburst.

If people do like it and the full banner didn't survive on esigns, here is how
you can literally recreate this banner in just a couple of minutes, with their tool.
1) Upload the attached combined sunburst-robot logo. Locate on the left
edge & stretch to fill left area, keeping square aspect ratio.
2) On the right, add text (as two separate line inserts to better control position)
Text Font is still "Market", as before. For better readability I used extra spaces, thus:
..."Michigan Robot Club", and "Mi Robot Club.com". Spaces are small, so this works.
3) As each text line is added, edit color to row 6, column 3 in the UL color block.
That more closely matches the logo's blue.

Thoughts?

- Keith Mc.
sunburst_2.jpg
sunburst_logo_2.jpg
MIRC_Banner_4.jpg
MIRC_Banner_4_on_esigns.jpg

James Ronald

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May 8, 2013, 11:35:11 AM5/8/13
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I don't like the sunburst thing at all. Perhaps #1 with a yellow
gradient background.

Rodney Abke

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May 8, 2013, 11:40:10 AM5/8/13
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Here it is with the yellow gradient. 
4.png

Rodney Abke

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May 8, 2013, 11:45:31 AM5/8/13
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I like the one with the yellow gradient.  it does improve the contrast with the lettering and it fits with the coloring of the logo.

Rodney Abke

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May 8, 2013, 11:50:21 AM5/8/13
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Another thought just occurred to me.  With the yellow/blue color schema, Are people going to associate us with UofM?   

James Ronald

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May 8, 2013, 1:19:24 PM5/8/13
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Rod,

I like the yellow one with the yellow gradient as well.

Keith - did you get us signed up for the A2 Mini Maker Faire?

- Jim

Anthony Witcher

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May 8, 2013, 4:31:35 PM5/8/13
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It's possible. Blue/yellow  along with the word, Michigan on it. Maybe. I remember seeing the real UofM robot student clubs.
They always use blue and yellow colors.

Let's see what others say.

Another possible option is we can stick to gradient but a lighter blue to almost hula color or greyish lighter blue.
Or the gradient color is so light that it contrasts with the dark blue letters.

The sunburst looks so weird.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney Abke <cybe...@gmail.com>
To: MI ROBOT CLUB <MiRob...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, May 8, 2013 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [MiRobotClub] Final thoughts on the banner

Keith Mc

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May 8, 2013, 8:32:10 PM5/8/13
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Jim asked:
> Keith - did you get us signed up for the A2 Mini Maker Faire?


YES. I have already sent in a proposal, and am awaiting a reply. Details below.
We are now COMMITTED to show up, with a display, the Arena, etc.
I also said we would be running things that the crowd can control,
so we will need to show up with some Arena bots, or have other
things present that they can run.

Details...

I'm assuming we will need three things - Table space, floor space (feepbots
and roberts trashcan bots, etc), and Arena space as a place for us to run,
so I proposed the following:

INDOORS/OUTDOORS/TENT? Indoors (no rain worries)

SPACE REQUIRED - A) A single or double 8x8 booth, for table and floor displays;
B) AND the MiRC Arena running area, hopefully co-located, or nearby.
I went into great detail of the kinds of things we tend to do at these things,
and outlined a number of configurations we could work with.

POWER REQUIRED - I requested: a charging station for robot batteries,
AND one 15A 120V drop at the booth for laptops, smart picture frames, etc.
(The Arena requires NO power...)

INTERNET NEEDED? - I said "optional, but strongly preferred", so
we can use laptops to show YouTube videos, etc.
(Getting the SPACE in a block is the highest priority.)

FREQUENCIES USED: I said: WiFi, Cell/Smartphones, 72MHz Surface R/C, and Bluetooth.
I also said we could help manage the 72MHz band, if desired
(VEX uses 72MHz. I have a scanner for that entire band which I will
bring, that states on a nice display which of the channels are active.
I also have a full deck of all 10 VEX crystals, to avoid conflicts with other
attendees that may also be using VEX R/C or R/C car {ground} R/C frequencies)

ATTENDEE NAME BADGE LIST - For simplicity, I submitted the full names
for all 14 people that have talked on this list since January (they are
obviously the "currently active" people in the club, whose names I have... :-):
... Keith Mc, Jim R, Anthony W, Rodney A, Chris O, Paul H, Ken Y,
... Neal P, Mark M, Robert D, Johnny G, Erik K, David Mc, Dave W.
If there are any other lurkers that MAY show up that I have NOT
listed above that will require name badges, please let me know ASAP.

SALES AT BOOTH - I said YES, for small things (eg FIRST fund raising
trinkets to support local clubs, Robert's PCBs, etc.) Do we want to
come up with something else to sell to support the club?


I am awaiting a reply from the committee, on which of several layout
suggestions they wish to support. (eg our booth(s) near an open
space for the Arena, the Arena along the same row with our booth
as if it was another booth, etc.)

- Keith Mc.

Rodney Abke

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May 8, 2013, 8:59:34 PM5/8/13
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this all sounds good to me.  the arena next to the booth would be good, but any of the layouts you mentioned would be fine. we just need a little space to demo the robots.

 I plan to bring a lego bot and my chrome bot.  If i can get the Roomba-Pi going by then, i plan to bring that.



- Keith Mc.

James Ronald

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May 8, 2013, 10:46:42 PM5/8/13
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Keith,

Sounds great.

Thanks
- Jim
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