Re: [MT-L] SQL vs. NPR : I guess it’s just what you grew up on
Daniel Davis
Jim,
That would have been my assumption also. However, after watching multiple folks with much more Meditech smarts than I wrestle with what should have been straight forward reports, and even noticing that Meditech didn’t see anything wrong with the code. I find myself leaning toward skipping RD all together! But, that’s just me. Could be that others have not had the same experience.
Respectfully,
Dan
Daniel Davis
Vision Consulting, LLC
3325 Aspen Grove Drive, Suite 204, Franklin, TN 37067
(Free Conf Call) 605-475-4000; PAC 651109#
(t) 615-202-4839; (e) dda...@visionconsulting-llc.com
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From: Purvins, James A. [mailto:Pur...@inhs.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:36 AM
To: Daniel Davis; Edward Chisam
Cc: Medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] SQL vs NPR : I guess its just what you grew up on
Dan,
I have limited experience with RD in the TEST system only.
Are these untold issues with regards to response and compilation time ?
Just as you can have response issues with NPR due to using incorrect indices and sorts, so I imagine there would be the same problems with RD.
I would assume if the appropriate indices are being used and you are not using a custom sort, response time issues would be minimized.
Jim Purvins
From: Daniel Davis [mailto:DDa...@visionconsulting-llc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 7:25 AM
To: Purvins, James A.; Edward Chisam
Cc: Medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] SQL vs NPR : I guess its just what you grew up on
Jim,
Have you been happy with RD? I have not tried to learn it yet, but have observed untold issues with it trying run in the LIVE setting.
Respectfully,
Dan
Daniel Davis
Vision Consulting, LLC
3325 Aspen Grove Drive, Suite 204, Franklin, TN 37067
(Free Conf Call) 605-475-4000; PAC 651109#
(t) 615-202-4839; (e) dda...@visionconsulting-llc.com
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From: Purvins, James A. [mailto:Pur...@inhs.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:03 AM
To: Daniel Davis; Edward Chisam
Cc: Medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] SQL vs NPR : I guess its just what you grew up on
Dan, Ed, Robert,
Thank you for your responses and insight.
I'm not that worried that my cheese may have been moved but sometimes I'm wondering why move it ?
Like Robert White states, using SQL is extracting data from a redundant database copy.
But like Ed indicates, if its a new vehicle to use for folk that are less verse in hierarchical reporting writing structures, more power to them and Meditech that allows this flexibility.
My viewpoint though is that why use a relational database report writing tool to report on a hierarchical database.
It just seems quite confusing.
Thank goodness NPR can still be used for those financial reports.
And when the Financials go to 6.0 Advanced Technology, I will definitely be using Report Designer before I even consider using SQL and Data Repository.
Thanks again for expressing your viewpoints.
Jim Purvins
From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com]
On Behalf Of Daniel Davis
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 7:47 PM
To: Edward Chisam
Cc: Medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: Re: [MT-L] SQL vs NPR : I guess its just what you grew up on
Actually I believe this is a case of "who moved my cheese?". While SQL may be unfamiliar it really is the future! Like it or not, Meditech is moving away from being able to get stuff out of anyplace other than the DR. There are plenty of benefits. First, they get all of us to stop mucking around in their back yard. The combined force of all us programmer/developer/analysts and this list means that many folks are operating beyond their understanding. This can potentially put the stability of the system at risk. Second, they shift the maintenance, training, development, etc of report writing to the mainstream BI folks. This relieves them of a huge support headache!
On our end though, it opens a universe of being able to more easily connect the information and format it. It allows us to use the rich graphing and conditional formatting available in such tools as SSRI, BIRT, and Crystal.
I see it as a win/win!
Sent from my iPhone
On May 1, 2012, at 20:33, "Edward Chisam" <ech...@drvalidate.com> wrote:
Hi Jim:
My answer is: “it depends”. With a simple report like the one described, either approach would be fine. Maybe somebody else would prefer to download all the raw information to file and manipulate it through Microsoft Excel to get what they need. NPR Report Writer and Data Repository both have their uses, with the most obvious benefit of DR being that access to data is still available after it has been purged from the main Meditech system. Learning SQL is actually pretty easy. The real trick to SQL report writing is in the knowledge of where the data is stored in the main Meditech system – this provides the vital clues to someone seeking to extract the data out of DR instead. Someone who doesn’t understand how Meditech works - like I know you do - would not do so well writing SQL queries against DR.
Ed Chisam
DR Validate
From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of James A Purvins
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:59 PM
To: Medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: [MT-L] SQL vs NPR : I guess its just what you grew up on
To Meditech-L,
Its been awhile since I posted a polling message on the L.
However, this most recent thread on displaying the description procedure code once on a report has me thinking.
How many folk out there would find it easier to implement this out of NPR rather than SQL ?
Maybe a line check or two and you would be all done with it.
Am I the only one where these hybrid SQL statements make your eyes glaze over ?
Seems so simple in NPR and you don’t even have to worry about having DR synchronized with what is actually the current state of affairs with your database.
All opinions, suggestions, bantering appreciated.
Cheers,
Jim Purvins
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Purvins, James A.
I struggle with NPR developing clinical reporting (maybe with the exception of Lab : Micro and Bloodbank) i.e. Nursing and Pharmacy.
So I conclude the response time problems are inherent in the data structure and not the actual RD.
Only time and more experience from my standpoint will make me draw any further conclusions.
Carpenter, Michael--IRM
All, In NPR magic/cs clinical report writing, for efficient/fast reports, it is important to use the right indexes (review the MT web online DPM structures in the report writing resources), then read the object code, to see if Meditech is starting the index from the requested range. If not then xx custom defined select fields can be used to force the index to start at the desired range, or to bypass , or to exit, the read loops thru data structures.
In some cases it can make more sense to roll thru data structures in the macros, saving off desired values in the slash file, ie, mv arrays, r.frag.val, etc.
Mike
Michael D. Carpenter
Sr. Analyst/SE
Meditech Pharmacy Infomatics
Information Resource Management
Inland Northwest Health Services
(509)624-8558
Spokane, Wa.
MUSE
Before we all lean “toward skipping RD all together”, come and learn more about it. At the MUSE Conference, there are a number of great workshops and presentations (offered by the experts!) – see below …
More information: http://www.museweb.org/2012_international_muse_conference_orlando
Alan Sherbinin
MUSE CEO
mu...@museweb.org
877-491-4703 ext. 8
===================
Beginner Report Designer Workshop
The 6.0 platform includes a new ‘Report Designer’ tool that is designed to eventually supplant the NPR Report Writer. This new product can pull data from both the M-AT (Focus) and the C/S platforms in the same report. And, truly, “No Programming Required”.
Join us for a comprehensive introduction to the Report Designer. Topics will include the basics of Report Designer:
• Picking fields
• Selecting indexes
• Creating the selection screen and logic
• Creating reports that link from Focus to C/S
Instructors: Phil Sherry and Huan Nguyen, Iatric Systems
===================
6.0 Report Designer Training
We will create customized RD Reports making use of the following topics:
• Integrating data from multiple Applications (both M/AT and CS)
• Using Multiple Index Tables
• Attributes (Report, Field, Screen, Sort, Region, Row, Link Region, Link Field)
• Object Explorer
• System and State Variables
• Review of Rules
• Using Global Variables
Instructor: Brian Schmit, Interface People
===================
MAGIC to CS 6.0 – Creating New Reports in 6.0 Report Designer
Migrating from MEDITECH MAGIC to CS 6.0 is not exactly cut and dry when it comes to your NPR reports. Be mentally and physically prepared to say goodbye to all of your hard work and intricately built MAGIC NUR (PCS), OE (OM), EDM and RXM reports. This presentation will shed some light on building reports in 6.0 Report Designer (RD). We will walk you through some simple RD reports in 6.0 utilizing screenshots showing you how to use Rules, c_variables and e_variables to extract data out of M-AT Modules.
Presenter: Dana Holmes, The IN Group
===================
NPR and Report Designer Tips & Tricks
Learn NPR and Report Designer tips, including:
· How to create a MAGIC or C/S report email to tell you it is finished.
· Link a report to PCI and have it pick the right visit “by itself” rather than annoying the doctor with a select visit screen.
· Create a download report that makes column headers automatically.
· Create MV arrays that never break.
· Use a loop instead of an MV array to have more flexible layout and formatting in your report.
· Several Report Designer examples of “they said it couldn’t be done”.
Presenter: Joe Cocuzzo, Iatric Systems, Inc.
===================
Report Designer Rules
This workshop will present the fundamentals of the Report Designer rules. Most every Report Designer (RD) report will require rules, as everything you used to do in an xx.field VAL attribute with a few brackets and an IF statement will require clicks in a “Wizard”.
Report Designer topics will include:
• Rules to reformat data
• Access Functions
• Subscripting
• Simple looping
• List Making
Instructors: Phil Sherry and Huan Nguyen, Iatric Systems
Jeff Holt
Unfortunately you can’t skip RD all together if you need to create custom OM output formats (ie. clinical data full page) to attach in the order dictionary or Medication Reconciliation reports. We are finding that out the hard way.
Jeff Holt RN
Director of Clinical Informatics
Valley View Hospital
1906 Blake Avenue Glenwood Springs, CO 81601
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Purvins, James A.
From: Jeff Holt [mailto:Jeff...@vvh.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:28 PM
To: Daniel Davis; Purvins, James A.; Edward Chisam
Cc: medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] SQL vs. NPR : I guess it's just what you grew up on
Mitch Lawrence
There are no experts in RD.
…yet
: 
: 
Lovelace, Chuck E
Experts? Meditech cannot even answer questions regarding RD. I have several reports in limbo waiting for Meditech Responses, and the more customers that go live with 6.0, the longer it takes to get a RD response. RD is by far the bane of my existence as a report writer. We are if fact also leaning toward SQL reporting via the DR instead of wasting numerous man-hours on RD, only to find its not doing what we need to do. I truly believe that Meditech did this so that enough customers would be fed up to the point they would stop using the RD and be forced to go with SQL, etc. therefore giving MT the grounds for eliminating any report writer support what-so-ever. Just my Two Cents.
Chuck Lovelace, RN/IS Analyst
Information Systems
Ministry Door County Medical Center
323 South 18th Avenue
Sturgeon Bay, WI 54235
Office: 920-746-3608
Fax: 920-743-6204
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Melissa Hoar
This has been our experience also. Thanks.
Melissa Hoar
Financial Analyst
Coshocton Hospital
Coshocton, Ohio
Machado, Jorge
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:07 AM
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Paul Goedicke
Aren’t the clinical modules NPR based yet in 6.0?
Paul Goedicke
Clinical Analyst III
Jackson County Memorial Hospital
1200 E. Pecan Street
Altus, OK 73521
Phone (580) 379-5565
Fax (580) 379-5559
paulgo...@jcmh.com
Glass of water:
Pessimist sees it half empty,
Optomist sees it half full,
Analyst determines it is only 49.9999% full,
Pragmatist drinks the water…
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Machado, Jorge
From: Paul Goedicke [mailto:PaulGo...@jcmh.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:35 PM
To: Machado, Jorge; 'Lovelace, Chuck E'; Mitch Lawrence; mu...@museweb.org; 'Daniel Davis'; 'Purvins, James A.'; 'Edward Chisam'
Cc: medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] RD There are no experts.
Carpenter, Michael--IRM
All, Iatrics I believe has a $tool$ that can retrieve/access 6.0 data for the NPR report writer to use!
Mike
Michael D. Carpenter
Sr. Analyst/SE
Meditech Pharmacy Infomatics
Information Resource Management
Inland Northwest Health Services
Spokane, Wa.
