Google smtp and pop

[Marc Auslander]

Google has now said they are pulling the plug on userid/password
authentication for apps.

I use fetchmail and exim4 to get and send mail. Neither, AFAIK,
supports OAUTH2. I'm also still on stretch but will update if I have to.

So what suggestions does anyone have for dealing with OAUTH2 access to
gmail?

[Christian Britz]

I userd getmail instead of fetchmail in the past, and a quick web search
reveals that it seems to support OAUTH2:
https://www.bytereef.org/howto/oauth2/getmail.html.

Regards,
Christian

--
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

[Eric S Fraga]

On Friday, 4 Mar 2022 at 10:59, Marc Auslander wrote:
> So what suggestions does anyone have for dealing with OAUTH2 access to
> gmail?

I'm using davmail [http://davmail.sourceforge.net/] for this with
Outlook exchange servers as the one I have to use has also moved to
oauth2 access only. I switched sometime last year (not exactly a great
time to make it difficult to connect, in the middle of a pandemic,
working from home... :-() and it has been working perfectly ever since.

It means changing your email server setting to be localhost in whatever
tool you use to read emails (I use gnus in Emacs) and davmail sends on
requests to the actual server. Instructions, at least for Outlook, on
the website. Not sure about gmail, mind you.

--
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.2 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.2

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Fri Mar 4 09:25:02 2022 Marc Auslander <marc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Google has now said they are pulling the plug on userid/password
> authentication for apps.
>
> I use fetchmail and exim4 to get and send mail. Neither, AFAIK,
> supports OAUTH2. I'm also still on stretch but will update if
> I have to.
>

> So what suggestions does anyone have for dealing with OAUTH2 access
> to gmail?

Find another mail host.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

[Christian Britz]

On 2022-03-04 18:30 UTC+0100, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> Find another mail host.

And you could find a mail client which correctly replies to messages. ;-)

--
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

[mick crane]

Seems you have to setup a separate per application password, not looked
yet.

mick

--
Key ID 4BFEBB31

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Fri Mar 4 11:30:12 2022 Christian Britz <cbr...@t-online.de> wrote:

> On 2022-03-04 18:30 UTC+0100, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> Find another mail host.
>
> And you could find a mail client which correctly replies to messages.
> ;-)

Actually, I'm not reading this list with a mail client at all;
I read its Usenet echo with slrn. I don't post here that
often, and I'd rather not have the list flooding my mailbox.
I admit that it makes my responses somewhat disjointed, though.

Yours for a Google-free world...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 11:39:36AM -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

[...]

> Yours for a Google-free world...

+1

Cheers
--
t

[gene heskett]

one is not enough Tomas. 10, 100, maybe even a thousand+. They exist only
to sell your talk to a spammer. Mention a brand name and the next 20
emails you get will be spam from that brand.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

[Brian]

On Fri 04 Mar 2022 at 21:20:29 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 11:39:36AM -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Yours for a Google-free world...
>
> +1

Please don't be silly :).

--
Brain.

[dmacdoug]

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 10:59:45AM -0500, Marc Auslander wrote:
> Google has now said they are pulling the plug on userid/password
> authentication for apps.
>
> I use fetchmail and exim4 to get and send mail. Neither, AFAIK, supports
> OAUTH2. I'm also still on stretch but will update if I have to.
>
> So what suggestions does anyone have for dealing with OAUTH2 access to
> gmail?
>

I've never used fetchmail and don't know whether it supports oauth2 or not, but getmail5 supports it. You will probably find it easiest to update to buster which contains getmail5. If I'm not mistaken stretch has getmail4 and it doesn't include the script named "getmail-gmail-xoauth-tokens" that you need to run in order to use oauth2. I can't say whether the script would work with getmail4 or not.

Beware, however of getmail6 which automatically installs itself if you update to bullseye. It is not real getmail. It is a confusingly titled fork of getmail which was done to to make it work with python3. It is not supported by the original author of getmail who gives great support for getmail5.

There is a mailing list for support of getmail. The website for getmail is: https://pyropus.ca./software/getmail/. It contains very complete documentation and a link to the support mailing list.

Don MacDougall

[황병희]

> So what suggestions does anyone have for dealing with OAUTH2 access to
> gmail?

Just i did make app password (a 16-digit passcode).

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

--
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

[황병희]

> Yours for a Google-free world...

Well i like very much chromebook. Currently i'm using Debian 11
Bullseye under chromebook ^^^

[Brian]

Google's email has

> On 30 May, you may lose...

That's "may", not "will".

>From their first link:

> If "Less secure app access" is on for your account
> Because less secure apps can make your account more
> vulnerable, Google will automatically turn this setting
> off **if it’s not being used**.

The empasis is mine.

There isn't any indication that the setting is beimg removed. Panic
over?

--
Brian.

[Douglas McGarrett]

On 3/4/22 22:50, 황병희 wrote:
>> Yours for a Google-free world...
> Well i like very much chromebook. Currently i'm using Debian 11
> Bullseye under chromebook ^^^
>
> Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee
>

I thought Chromebook was a locked OS that you could not modify or add to.
I'm not looking for a Chromebook, but I'm curious. --doug

[Ash Joubert]

On 06/03/2022 02:26, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 04 Mar 2022 at 10:59:45 -0500, Marc Auslander wrote:
>> Google has now said they are pulling the plug on userid/password
>> authentication for apps.

> Google's email has
> > On 30 May, you may lose...
> That's "may", not "will".

[...]

> There isn't any indication that the setting is beimg removed. Panic
> over?

From later in their email, on 30 May, "Google *will* no longer [...]"
(emphasis mine). From their email:

"To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use
of third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google
Account using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to
sign in using Sign in with Google or other more secure technologies,
like OAuth 2.0."

Options include either using client software that supports OAuth2 (such
as Thunderbird) or enabling 2FA on your Google account to get access to
App Passwords for client software that does not yet support OAuth2 (such
as K-9 Mail).

Kind regards,

--
Ash Joubert <a...@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

[Dan Ritter]

Almost[?] all Chromebooks have a developer switch. Flip the
switch and the BIOS can be overwritten, usually with a simple
one that is mostly suitable for loading Linux. Flipping the
switch also erases all information on the Chromebook, which
isn't usually much of a problem.

Chromebooks also have limited lifetimes of support for ChromeOS,
so having the ability to move over to Debian is very useful.

-dsr-

[Brian]

On Sun 06 Mar 2022 at 11:54:28 +1300, Ash Joubert wrote:

> On 06/03/2022 02:26, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 04 Mar 2022 at 10:59:45 -0500, Marc Auslander wrote:
> > > Google has now said they are pulling the plug on userid/password
> > > authentication for apps.
> > Google's email has
> > > On 30 May, you may lose...
> > That's "may", not "will".
> [...]
> > There isn't any indication that the setting is beimg removed. Panic
> > over?
>
> From later in their email, on 30 May, "Google *will* no longer [...]"
> (emphasis mine). From their email:
>
> "To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use of
> third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account
> using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in using
> Sign in with Google or other more secure technologies, like OAuth 2.0."
>
> Options include either using client software that supports OAuth2 (such as
> Thunderbird) or enabling 2FA on your Google account to get access to App
> Passwords for client software that does not yet support OAuth2 (such as K-9
> Mail).

Indeed. But confusion still reigns in my mind.

Should the above removal of support turm out to be the case, it takes
only a moment to have mail forwarded elsewhere to be picked up.

--
Brian.

[Ash Joubert]

On 06/03/2022 12:33, Brian wrote:
> Should the above removal of support turm out to be the case, it takes
> only a moment to have mail forwarded elsewhere to be picked up.

Indeed, but you will lose the ability to send email from your Gmail
address via Gmail SMTP.

[황병희]

Douglas McGarrett <dmcga...@optimum.net> writes:

> [...]

> I thought Chromebook was a locked OS that you could not modify or add to.
> I'm not looking for a Chromebook, but I'm curious. --doug

Yes it is locked os. By the way chromebook runs on coreboot and linux
kernel. So i love chromebook. Thanks for feedback!

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

--

^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//

[Marcelo Laia]

> Find another mail host. 

Have you, or someone else, a suggestion for one alternative for Gmail?

I have been used mutt + offlineimap + msmtp for a long years (before I have been used Sylpheed). Both, offlineimap and msmtp, can use OAUTH2. The problem remains that day by day the token expires and a new one is needed, and this process can be done by hand. 

Marcelo

Enviado a partir de dispositivo móvel
https://linktr.ee/marcelolaia

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2022 at 11:22:40PM -0300, Marcelo Laia wrote:
> > Find another mail host.
>
> Have you, or someone else, a suggestion for one alternative for Gmail?

I tend towards smaller, but established local providers.

For example, around here, in Germany we have posteo.de or mailbox.org. They
do cost something (1 EUR/month), but they value your privacy (f. ex. you can
pay cash for posteo, they only know your mail address).

IMAP, SMTP, some also offer extras like Nextcloud (e.g. mailbox), no fuss.

Look around you, I'm sure you'll find similar offers. They don't make that
much noise (they aren't a propaganda company, as Google is, after all) and
tend to invest the money they take from you into people doing their jobs.

Cheers
--
t

[tv.debian]

Hi, I am not affiliated with any of the following, but I use them:

https://riseup.net/ is global U.S. based, with a free option, and they
claim to care about user privacy (I only say "claim" because I didn't
audit them).

https://protonmail.com/ There's a limited free option, it is global and
operates under Swiss laws. Cares about user privacy to a great extent
(no logs, user encrypted inbox, onion site access possible...). Only
caveats I am aware of is that they can be compelled to reveal user IP
address by Swiss laws (it happened once at the request of the French
government), so if you care about that use a vpn or TOR to access your
mails I guess. The paid options are solid professional options.

I still use gmail for public lists and general junk subscriptions,
Thunderbird handles oauth2 nicely.

[Marcelo Laia]

> we have posteo.de or mailbox.org.

Thank you! Look at posteo and mailbox plans.

I have been looked at protonMail.com. What I need is IMAP and SMTP for
offline uses. I plan to continue use offlineimap + msmtp + mutt for a
long time. GMail offers this, but, after OAuth2 implementation, token
expires day by day. It's annoying.

Thank you!

--
Marcelo

[Felmon Davis]

I wonder if anyone knows if there's a set-up which would work with
Alpine?

I am willing to switch to Mutt if need be but it would be nice if I
could continue in my old ways, more rather than less.

f.

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

[John Hasler]

Marcelo Laia wrote:
> Have you, or someone else, a suggestion for one alternative for Gmail?

I use pobox.com . My wife uses the email service that comes with our
Web site on Gandi. Both are quite satisfactory.

Unlike some others I don't consider Google "evil". They're just an
advertising agency. I do, however, find it baffling that people use the
email service that they give away as a promotional gimmick for anything
important.
--
John Hasler
jo...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[Felmon Davis]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2022, John Hasler wrote:

> Marcelo Laia wrote:
>> Have you, or someone else, a suggestion for one alternative for Gmail?
>
> I use pobox.com . My wife uses the email service that comes with our
> Web site on Gandi. Both are quite satisfactory.
>
> Unlike some others I don't consider Google "evil". They're just an
> advertising agency. I do, however, find it baffling that people use the
> email service that they give away as a promotional gimmick for anything
> important.

the university uses 'Google Apps for Education'. no problems.

I read this list through plain google. also I do some commercial communication with it.

no advertisements I can connect with using it. there is spam but all
of it is wholly unrelated to anything I am doing.

I use Alpine though as mail client, the web-interface I use for
searches or to more easily grab URL's I want.

(maybe I reveal too much?!)


--
Felmon

Verbum sat sapienti.

[Brian]

I came across Disroot (disroot.org) the other day. Looks interesting
and worth considering.

> We do not wish for Disroot to become one centralized entity but
> rather a part of a larger community - one node out of many. We
> hope others will be inspired to create more projects with similar
> intentions.

--
Brian.

[Marcelo Laia]

For someone that have same problem as mine, "Token has been expired or
revoked" in Gmail OAuth2 authentication method each seven days, I found
a how to by pass this one:

https://stackoverflow.com/a/67966982/1461165

--
Marcelo

[Richmond]

Marc Auslander <marc...@gmail.com> writes:

> Google has now said they are pulling the plug on userid/password
> authentication for apps.
>

> I use fetchmail and exim4 to get and send mail. Neither, AFAIK,
> supports OAUTH2. I'm also still on stretch but will update if I have
> to.
>
> So what suggestions does anyone have for dealing with OAUTH2 access to
> gmail?

It doesn't say that. Signing into your google account is not the same as
signing into a pop3/smtp/imap server. You will be able to use app
passwords for that.

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255

[황병희]

황병희 <soye...@doraji.xyz> writes:

> Douglas McGarrett <dmcga...@optimum.net> writes:
>
>> [...]
>> I thought Chromebook was a locked OS that you could not modify or add to.
>> I'm not looking for a Chromebook, but I'm curious. --doug
>
> Yes it is locked os. By the way chromebook runs on coreboot and linux
> kernel. So i love chromebook. Thanks for feedback!

And i know FSF fans don't like this chromebook. My point is for a linux
developers and hackers! This article is useful: [^^^]

[^^^] https://usesthis.com/interviews/junio.c.hamano/

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

--

^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Mon, Mar 07, 2022 at 12:26:19PM +0900, 황병희 wrote:
> 황병희 <soye...@doraji.xyz> writes:
>
> > Douglas McGarrett <dmcga...@optimum.net> writes:
> >
> >> [...]
> >> I thought Chromebook was a locked OS that you could not modify or add to.
> >> I'm not looking for a Chromebook, but I'm curious. --doug
> >
> > Yes it is locked os. By the way chromebook runs on coreboot and linux
> > kernel. So i love chromebook. Thanks for feedback!
>
> And i know FSF fans don't like this chromebook. My point is for a linux
> developers and hackers! This article is useful: [^^^]
>
> [^^^] https://usesthis.com/interviews/junio.c.hamano/

Junio is a very smart and pleasant guy. Git is lucky to have such a
maintainer. And we are all lucky to have git.

But he works for Google [1]. I don't expect him to talk about Google's
dark side. Heck, I don't expect him to even see Google's dark side.

I wouldn't, in his position. We are all humans.

I think the biggest mistake is to try to partition the world in Good
and Evil. We all are a mix of both. And then some.

Cheers

[1] https://opensource.googleblog.com/2011/03/geek-time-with-junio-c-hamano.html

--
t

[황병희]

Thanks for sharing such video! And thanks for comments on Good and
Evil in real life. Totally i agree with you tomás!

Sincerely, Linux and Chromebook fan Byung-Hee

--
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

[Eric S Fraga]

On Sunday, 6 Mar 2022 at 15:41, Brian wrote:
> I came across Disroot (disroot.org) the other day. Looks interesting
> and worth considering.

I've been using disroot for some time now for personal email (work is
Exchange unfortunately with 2FA which I access by using davmail).
Disroot works very well for me and comes with nextcloud as well which is
useful.

--
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.2 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.2

[Robbi Nespu]

Where you saw the information?
I suggest to use app password instead of real password. It also easy to
identify if the apps we use misbehave and grant specific permissions.

--
Regards
Robbi Nespu

PGP: D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA