God of Our Fathers

[Scott]

Does any one know why the hymn God of Our Fathers is placed in the hymn book where it is (#78) rather than part of the patriotic hymns (#338-41)?  I'm considering using this for memorial day weekend and trying to defend it's appropriateness for this occasion.  I don't believe it's just a July 4th hymn.  The hymn tune is National Hymn and was created for the centennial in 1876.  So I was just curious why it was placed where it is and if that helps justify using it on memorial day weekend. 

[AH Kimball]

Do you have access to the book "Our Latter-day Hymns" by Karen Lynn Davidson?

The entry for "God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand" is on page 107.

It doesn't specifially mention anything about the placement or numbering, but it begins:

"'God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Had; offers us a chance to express our patriotic feelings in the form of a hymn. In its stirring phrases we praise the majesty of God and ask him to continue to guide our nation and protect its destiny in the future. We place our faith in God rather than in military might alone.

"Though the hymn is suitable for a national occasion in any free country, it has its origins in the American Centennial of 1876. ..."

So Sister Davidson calls it "patriotic" and says it's "suitable for a national occasion." I think Memorial Day qualifies as a national occasion.

When you say you're trying to justify/defend the choice, I don't know if you mean you're trying to convince yourself or convince someone else, or what kind of authority you'd like the information to come from, so just take this for what it's worth.

Personally, I think it's a great choice for Memorial Day.

--Heather Kimball

2016-05-09 9:48 GMT-06:00 Scott <fpl...@msn.com>:

Does any one know why the hymn God of Our Fathers is placed in the hymn book where it is (#78) rather than part of the patriotic hymns (#338-41)?  I'm considering using this for memorial day weekend and trying to defend it's appropriateness for this occasion.  I don't believe it's just a July 4th hymn.  The hymn tune is National Hymn and was created for the centennial in 1876.  So I was just curious why it was placed where it is and if that helps justify using it on memorial day weekend. 

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[David Keller]

Interesting question, Scott.  I don't have the answer, but I'll try to provide a little cross-cultural context.  

The Spanish LDS hymnal includes no national anthems, quite appropriately, because it is used in dozens of countries around the world.  But it does include Oh, Santo Dios, omnipotente ser (God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand), along with Himno de batalla de la república (Battle Hymn of the Republic), and Haznos pensar en ti, Señor (God of Our Fathers, Known of Old).  These hymn texts make reference to issues of war and liberty, and two of them have origins in critical events in U.S. history, but they all place devotion to God and his law above national character or interests.  This, and the fact that these hymns have long been used in many other Christian denominations, might help explain why they were included in the current LDS hymnal and its predecessors.  It may also be a hint as to why, although cross-listed in the index as "patriotic" hymns, they are placed in the hymnal among other hymns of worship, supplication, guidance, gratitude, truth, peace, and faith.

Personally, I think any of these hymns would be appropriate for Memorial Day (although Kipling's hymn text resonates a little more with me for the occasion).  

Off topic:  After 12 years in a Spanish language congregation, I do miss singing The Star-Spangled Banner, America the Beautiful, and My Country, 'Tis of Thee on occasion.  But I always thrill to the fervor with which our Peruvian, Mexican, Argentine, etc., brothers and sisters sing the Himno de batalla de la república.  

David Keller

---

De: Scott <fpl...@msn.com>
Para: LearningOrgan <learni...@googlegroups.com>
Enviado: Lunes, 9 de mayo, 2016 9:48:48
Asunto: [LearningOrgan] God of Our Fathers

[David Keller]

Additional information on the history of this hymn can be found at

The History of “God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand"

		The History of “God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand" “God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand” communicates a feeling of patriotism and honors the greatness of God. The hymn’s origins trace back to the 1876.
		Ver en www.mormontabernaclechoir.org	Vista previa por Yahoo

and http://www.hymnary.org/text/god_of_our_fathers_whose_almighty_hand 

---

De: AH Kimball <ahki...@gmail.com>
Para: learni...@googlegroups.com
Enviado: Lunes, 9 de mayo, 2016 10:32:31
Asunto: Re: [LearningOrgan] God of Our Fathers

[Scott]

Thanks Heather & David. 

Regarding the justification or defending the use of the hymn, I'm in what I think is a unique situation of music people and bishopric folks. But that discussion is a whole different topic.  Organists play what the music director comes up with.  In short that's a quick summary and will just leave it at that. It sounds a bit worse than it really is.  

I'm not necessarily looking for an authoritative response because I know one doesn't exist.  But rather looking for other ways to support the use of the hymn outside of July 4th.  At first I was surprised that it wasn't included with the other patriotic hymns in the back of the book.  But then David pointed out and reminded me that this is a world wide church.  Those hymns in the back are more specific to America.  So that makes sense and helps support the use of the hymn on any appropriate occasion. 

I was also getting the feeling that Memorial Day has moved to become more about ancestry and family rather than veterans and country.  I remember growing up near a cemetery and the VFW would parade up to the cemetery and have a brief ceremony on Memorial Day with speeches and of course a gun salute.  I just feel that we've lost that country aspect of the holiday and want to be able to emphasize it by selecting an appropriate hymn. I often feel that I'm alone in my desire to match historical events with appropriate hymn selections.  I don't take that to extremes by thinking that Come, Come, Ye Saints can only be sung on July 24th.  I like subtle or even not so subtle reminders that music is a part of worship.  I also like humor too.  I love to play/sing or use as prelude/postlude  Up, Awake, Ye Defenders of Zion around July 4th because of the tune Columbia the Gem of the Ocean. 

So since I don't get to select the songs and have to suggest a change to the music director's choice(s) I feel I have to defend or justify the suggestion.  I know you may think this is a no brainer substitution but really I think the country patriotism has been lost from Memorial Day. 

Thanks for your input.  I can't wait to play God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand this month. 

[AH Kimball]

"I was also getting the feeling that Memorial Day has moved to become more about ancestry and family rather than veterans and country."

I see that sometimes, too.

Good luck!

--H. Kimball

[GDonaldH]

If you want some additional justification for programming "God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand" on Memorial Day weekend, here are some stats:

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir performed Mack Wilberg's arrangement of this hymn on the following recent patriotic broadcasts:

Memorial Day: 2012, 2010, 2008. 2005, 2004
Veterans Day: 2013, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004

Don

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 9:48:49 AM UTC-6, Scott wrote:

[BCWB...@aol.com]

In our ward, for sure, we sing patriotic or hymns related to thankfulness for this nations, and, our freedoms which have been defended a la the title of liberty by those in and out of the military on Memorial Day (at least one of the hymns, anyway).  On May 18th we will sadly be laying to rest a member of our congregation who was there at Iwo Jima, and, who was a career Marine.  Every year since he joined our congregation, we have had a special observance of Veteran's Day, and, have had a cake which he sliced with his sword in honor of the Marine Corps Birthday :).  We do honor all of our other Vets at the same time.  This doesn't take place during Sacrament Meeting, of course.  But we do sing patriotic hymns whenever there is a reason to do so.

 

It is sad that a relationship can't be worked out in your ward where you can be more involved in the selection of the hymns that are used.  Our son is now on the rotation in our ward, and, he definitely gets to pick the hymns on his Sunday, because he can't yet play them all.  He was recently asked to serve as organist at a Stake Conference Priesthood Leadership Meeting.  He turned in the list of the hymns he could play, and, our stake presidency chose hymns from his list.  They even mused out loud that they would form their speaking topics based on which hymns they selected from his list. 

 

Just some thoughts.......Beth Ballantyne

 

In a message dated 5/9/2016 1:34:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fpl...@msn.com writes:

Thanks Heather & David. 

Regarding the justification or defending the use of the hymn, I'm in what I think is a unique situation of music people and bishopric folks. But that discussion is a whole different topic.  Organists play what the music director comes up with.  In short that's a quick summary and will just leave it at that. It sounds a bit worse than it really is.  

I'm not necessarily looking for an authoritative response because I know one doesn't exist.  But rather looking for other ways to support the use of the hymn outside of July 4th.  At first I was surprised that it wasn't included with the other patriotic hymns in the back of the book.  But then David pointed out and reminded me that this is a world wide church.  Those hymns in the back are more specific to America.  So that makes sense and helps support the use of the hymn on any appropriate occasion. 

I was also getting the feeling that Memorial Day has moved to become more about ancestry and family rather than veterans and country.  I remember growing up near a cemetery and the VFW would parade up to the cemetery and have a brief ceremony on Memorial Day with speeches and of course a gun salute.  I just feel that we've lost that country aspect of the holiday and want to be able to emphasize it by selecting an appropriate hymn. I often feel that I'm alone in my desire to match historical events with appropriate hymn selections.  I don't take that to extremes by thinking that Come, Come, Ye Saints can only be sung on July 24th.  I like subtle or even not so subtle reminders that music is a part of worship.  I also like humor too.  I love to play/sing or use as prelude/postlude  Up, Awake, Ye Defenders of Zion around July 4th because of the tune Columbia the Gem of the Ocean. 

So since I don't get to select the songs and have to suggest a change to the music director's choice(s) I feel I have to defend or justify the suggestion.  I know you may think this is a no brainer substitution but really I think the country patriotism has been lost from Memorial Day. 

Thanks for your input.  I can't wait to play God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand this month. 

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 9:48:49 AM UTC-6, Scott wrote:

Does any one know why the hymn God of Our Fathers is placed in the hymn book where it is (#78) rather than part of the patriotic hymns (#338-41)?  I'm considering using this for memorial day weekend and trying to defend it's appropriateness for this occasion.  I don't believe it's just a July 4th hymn.  The hymn tune is National Hymn and was created for the centennial in 1876.  So I was just curious why it was placed where it is and if that helps justify using it on memorial day weekend. 

[Max Walker]

Beth - nice experience your son is having. When I started playing organ several years ago, our music director was very accommodating. She chose hymns, and I had the freedom to cry "uncle!" if one was beyond my ability. I took the challenge to play as many as she chose as I could to expand my skills and repertoire more quickly. We still work that way, but on smaller nuances. We both like good volume and good tempo, so we work together on those. She is open to interludes and reharmonizations, and I give her an email of what to,expect with a few soft tips on directing those since I am also a director. A good partnership like this enjoys help from the spirit -- harmony instead of contention.