Re: LRA-General-OOC Re: conversion and other things

[Nikki Taylor]

*sighs and takes a deep breath* * Please read email COMPLETELY*

 

First off the throwing of insults is childish people. Lets all remember we are adults and not call names. Seriously lets all talk like civil adults and see if we can find an in between point. No one is going to get it exactly their way we have to compromise. With that said do not respond to this email if you cant not be civil and respective of a fellow member/human being. I thank you ahead of time.

 

Now moving on to a subject I would like to brooch with the people who truly care to see this club survive. First lets clear the air,  just so its known I had until this point threatened Lucas and the ST staff to change any of the rules because I promised 6 months no revisions. However it looks like this is a promise I need to break.

 

Lucas I know you don't want to change the rules and neither do I. As a matter a fact this is a large disagreement I had with Mr. Caron that we were not going to change the rules when he suggested a complete reset of the game and addendum revisions. Joe I am sorry to see you go and in all fairness I made a mistake by hiring you. The venue leads deserve the right to run their  venues and as always when it comes to approvals they have my vote as long as they give reasonable clarification for their decisions. The GST/DOST/MST whatever you guys call it will never be filled again because in truth its always the same thing "let me change all the rules and reset the game and I can make it perfect" if it were that easy we would have got it right a long time ago. I am tired of constant changes and the officer turn over.

 

However it seems I constantly hear lets just use the books just how they were written. Now guys in truth I am sceptical as no large club I have seen has not had clarification to these books as they were not written to be ran smoothly in large groups or cross venue. However I want people to play and I want them to have fun.

 

Lucas you wish me to manage the club and lately I have had to leave alot of things in your hands because working two jobs and being in my last semester of my accounting degree is hectic. Though now I see one thing, people will not believe you unless they see it in action. So here is my suggestion and unless I hear the usual war cry I suggest we look at switching.

 

Lets use the LARP books and lets play. The players keep saying lets play straight by the books alright then we will release an approval level doc and a list of books that are sanctioned. However this means no pulling whatever crack you can find out of these rare books and tabletop books. No MET conversion then its out.

 

I know the members don't see it but we have alot of time in the rules so if we are going to do this we are going to keep it simple. We will cut 95% of the clarifications and look at lowering some approval levels.  However since people can not respect their fellow members and wish to only want to play the most powerful pc we will go the system everyone seems to be use to which is ml determines power level. Creature type and other items will be subject to approval depending on core rules and an approvals doc per venue (yes that's core and one doc per venue). We will be keeping the fetish doc and the changeling treasure/companion rules.

 

The creation rules will not change because well I like every other member am tired of revising my characters and personally I don't think its fair to punish the people that have turned in pcs for conversion. So creation rules stays if you don't want the 10 points from back ground then don't fill out the approval sheet. If you fill it out you can have them your choice but if you want an approval you are going to have to fill it out sorry but the form is very simple and virtually painless. Also as we will be going to the ml power level system. New characters would be made by the new rules guidelines starting as soon as we can drop the approval levels these pcs will receive no back exp just ml.

 

Power level based off ML ( loans not included) means that people its in your hands. I have already asked Hope to look over the SA doc for more possible ways to gain SA. In short your power level will be earned by your dedication to the club and humanity. Maybe this will encourage people to have socials and donate to their community which in my opinion can only be a good thing.

 

All old characters converted correctly by April 30th would be grandfathered with the exception of items that are not in the listed books we are using. The only exception to this rule will be auction items as people spent hard earned money on that item and should not be forced to lose the item due to us going back to using the books with minimum changes.

 

Lucas, I feel we had a nice conversation yesterday and I thank you for having faith in me and supporting me taking this option to the membership.

 

So guys what do you want?? Back to the books? Or stay where we are now?

 

First go register on the website (note you have to use your membership # as your user name or your account will be deleted and you vote not counted) Once you have registered with your membership # Please go to the main page click the link and vote. Please note Lucas's charter will not be voting. Voting will end April 8th which is next Sunday at midnight. As we can not be sure who is active anymore it will be determined by the number of votes received. So I advise people talk to people to get what everyone wants.

 

P.S. People if you have concerns and need to talk my email is ashli...@gmail.com and my phone # is (910) 237-3242 drop me a line or a msg. I might not answer in 10 mins or even 5 hours but I will kill myself trying to get back to you in 72 or less hours. I can only do my job if you tell me what you don't like and GIVE me possible suggestions on how to improve things. 

 

 

 

On 3/30/07, Dave Hites <dave...@gmail.com > wrote:

And So Says the Voice of the Lucas....

Until the next time.

I seem to remember the last time the Voice of Lucas said "This will be the Last Rules Change"... 

Seems to remind me of another Texan.

But the Voice of Lucas has said that this is the Last and Final Time the Rules will Change and We Accept that as the Truth. 

Dave Hites
USOH-2005-07-001

On 3/30/07, Lucas Westfall <legacyp...@gmail.com > wrote:

You know.. We've been playing for a few years now and the rules that are currently in place do have a problem.. They work and they weaken power gamers.

 

Theres no need to explain and justify this, people will just bitch. 

 

We are keeping what we have.  There will be no more resets or rewrites.  I have talked to alot of players.  Many are happy or tolerant of the changes and think that its better than the 1st revision or the book as fas as game balance goes..

 

The rules are currently stable and that is an improvement.  We are not allowing them to randomly be changed and reinvented by every new MST/GST who comes onboard..  That is why we has the rewrites because when Bill, Kermit and others came onboard they wanted to rework everything..  When Pruitt complained about remaking hisr Garou.. That was the reason why because everyone wanted to change the rules again and again,.

 

Instead of allowing this ugly trend to continue we concreted what we had and went with it.  We stopped the MST from a proposed reset and asked him not to rewrite all of the rules.  We have what we're going to work with and it is not currently changing.  After all if we changed everything right now.. Honestly who would be left in the org?

 

Our approvals system is being worked out and we're growing again.. When things are starting to run a bit smoother and new groups of people are joining, that is not the time to change everything..

 

Whats been done was done for the best of reasons and the dissenting voices are outweighed by the consenting voices.. So for now we are sticking to stability for a time to allow things to settle instead of changing things again. 

 

 

Lucas
 

On 3/29/07, Thomas Thompson <shadow...@gmail.com > wrote:

Ok, I am going to stick my too cents in here, why, cause I can :P
Yeah, I understand people being annoyed about going back over their PCs, and I understand that this org is working kinks out...
And I have a skewed sense of the issues, cause I don't care about vampire (Either venue) And I haven't been here as long as a lot of you.....

That being said... three months after joining the cam, I had to complelety take apart a PC I had been playing, and rebuild him from the ground up, why? Cause no one told me that the rules for kin from the LotW:R were wrong, EVER. I even told my local ST (When I was still willing to play in Orlando) That I had used those rules... That is what I made the PC with, untill I found out, on my own, that it was wrong...  That is obviously not going to happen here...
Yeah,. it has got to be annoying to worry about making a PC with lots of approvals, but I play concept, and I don't mind the approvals... Why? Cause I Was CONSTANTLY beaten in the cam by people who only cared about the numbers... and you know what? It sucks and ruins fun a whole lot worse then double checking rules.
I watched people get things approved that I as a Troupe ST that is very open minded would never approve in a million years
You want to play a Tremere with the thaum, then fill out the approval, it is not that long, not that bad, and heck, they even changed the part in the old one that I didn't like...
They even let you put multiple approvals on one form.
Yeah, it has been tough, but I am sure it will get better. Do I agree with all the rules? No, I think some of the approvals are a bit annoying, and I don't think all kin should have gifts... but those are the rules, and I will deal with them to play the game.
And that is the whole thing folks, it is a game.... It is a a piece of paper.... I have fun here, so I will stay here as long as they will have me.
But with the info we have, I will never see an ANST stand up at a national Con, and inform a quarter of the game that a lore they have doesn't exist... and yeah, I saw that... this place is no where near as bad as some of the problems I saw in the cam, and I ain't elaborating any farther, you want the stories, I am on IRC all the time....
But I am here to play, and if that means it takes me 3 hours to make my PC with the rules, so be it... Shit happens.
You have that big of an issue? Go log into the website, and click the link to resign from the Org. I'll be here even if it is just Jeremy, Hope, Katie and me sitting on IRC role playing. I would prefer to see the rest of you too.

.

On 3/29/07, Dave Hites <dave...@gmail.com > wrote:

Just a suggestion.

There is one set of Rules, it's called Laws of the Night Revised/Laws of Wild/etc.

There is a character creation, it's called Laws of the Night Revised/Laws of the Wild/etc.

There are only three things needed in an Amendment - 1) how much additional XP is added to character creation,  2) what portions of the Clanbooks/Tribebooks/Kithbooks/etc., will be used, and 3) what are the approval levels.

The general attitude I've seen since the very beginning has been "We know more than than the people who created this gaming system so we can re-write it better".  Stop the re-writes, stop trying to decide how powers work. 

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.  I'll just go back and sit in my corner and wait for the day that this finally becomes what I was orginally told it was going to be...  A LARP game, as WW designed it, without all the politics that plagued the Cam.

Dave Hites
USOH-2005-07-001

On 3/29/07, Joe Carron < joe.c...@gmail.com > wrote:

If it makes you guys feel better.  So do I.

 

I definately feel there are far to many rules in this organization and I don't like alot of them.

I also feel there are to many wonky things approved. 

 

Unfortunately for you all, I can do nothing about it.

 

I agreed to MST for this organization with the idea that I would be able to help it grow and make some

much needed changes.  Unfortunately the agreement I had, was changed on me, and the things I started

to do made certain people unhappy.  So I have been sitting around trying to figure out how to leverage

make the needed changes against my inability to actually do anything that needs to be done without

way to much oversight from the Council. 

 

Since I don't like the ruleset, I don't like where this chronicle currently is, and I would never have approved

a huge chunk of stuff that is out there, and since I cannot do anything about it.

 

I have decided to step down as MST.

 

My suggestion to you all, start a new club. 

 

Joe Carron

 

On 3/29/07, Dave Hites < dave...@gmail.com > wrote:

Even I have to admit, for once Pruitt and me agree on something.

Dave Hites
USOH-2005-07-001

On 3/29/07, John Pruitt < hardpip...@gmail.com > wrote:

that being said I will say that this conversion was
not as well publicized as I would think the higher ups
would like to have thought it was.  Between the SD CST
and our RST I did not hear of any conversion list till
Joe made his first comments about it in February and I
was in contact with the first 2 mentioned parties
quite often and still am.

Yeah, I was pretty stunned to see that there was still conversion and still back XP and I hadn't touch OWoD in a few months before the sabbat game the other night. 

I just think that they all up there like paperwork.  I think Nikki's accounting has rubbed off on them.

But seriously... what's with all of this foreplay, man? 

My advice.... just play.  Stop trying to make it all perfect, because you're not going to get it, and play.  Do not respond, do not explain yourself.  Just stop making rules that don't matter.

Over a year since the IRC rule about "you can't talk about troupe games in the OoC room." and I'm confident in the assessment that this rule does nothing to the contribution of attendance in the global rooms and confident that all it ever did was piss people off.

Dementation Malks are approval in the C/A venue?  yeah right... Malkav woke up and said "YOU ARE MY CHILDREN!" and the insanity came back... everywhere... all of them.  In the Cam they allowed people to keep their dominate to be nice, not because of setting.

I knew a guy who could play a tremere IF the entire thing was Low approval... and most of the Tremere experience is District and higher.  If I remember correctly, there is only One (1) Advanced thaum ritual that is low app.  One of the biggest backbones of society is one of the hardest to get?

I'm not even sure if it was an ST laying down this law on him, which was the strange part. 

you are free to play what you want as long as it's what we say you can... play?  huh?

these are just a few examples of uselessness... no offense, seriously, I know what you all do for these projects... but this stuff is useless.  Pointless.  You are building rules for rules on top of rules.  STOP DOING IT!  We are at the point where the addenda is turning into a college algebra text book.

This thaum doesn't work on Gangrel of this generation unless the power is less than advanced and the moon is full and his claws aren't out... what the hell?

I also know a few of the rules there are based on someone's personal bias.  I know a few of these powers were referred to as "I just don't like it" and now they are approval.  Like that one Cammie RST who didn't like sabbat so our region wasn't even allowed to app for a venue because of that jerkoff.

It's no fun.  NO FUN.  Let's say it again, NO FUN.  A roller coaster if fun because it is simple, fast and gives you an air of dangerous.  It goes up and down and side to side and that's all it does.  There's a chance you might fly out of it and DIE, but it's fun.

Stop trying to make everything "good" and "perfect" and just run the game.  You are so focused on powers, what else do you think people are going to focus on elsewhere?  You've put all of the work into putting limits on everything.   It's like someone in marketing/advertising putting a dollar sign on everything.  It's frustrating.

Stop.  Don't approve every Salubri and 7th Gen Lasombra-Anti in the C/A venue that comes across your desk, but know when you've gone too far.

I was playing DnD with some friends here once.  And we had this habit of making new PC's all of the time because of something the DM did wrong or because there was some alternate storyline.  I had made a Pally, a Drunken Master, a Sorceror, a 7ft tall warrior with a huge hammer and a bad habit of talking about his evenly ratio'ed penis,  a rogue and a few others in just a few months time.  Then I quit that game because I was tired of the one part of the game I don't like and that is making the character.  We spent almost as much time making as playing. 

And now we're doing it here.  We're making over and over and over and OVER and over again.  I've remade my garou 4 times in the passed year because of this stuff.

This is our org too.  Stop making us bend and flex and be noted as worthy to play based on your whims and over compulsive urge to keep people from getting killed in a setting called THE WORLD OF DARKNESS!

Besides... the point of the LARP was to have  a simple setting to dress up and throw RPS in.  It wasn't about rules or combat.  It was about not needing books and dice.  Simplicity.  I shouldn't have to read the rules every time I use a power to make sure that it's the same as the book says.  Stopping everything to check a rules call IS NOT FUN!

Let's say it again... IT'S NOT FUN.  This is an org of games, of fun.  IT IS NOT FUN.

Monopoly has rules, a set of 'tourney' rules.  You know how many house rules there generally are?  Two.  1) Get 500 bucks on Free Parking and sometimes 2) you have to go around the board once before you can buy property.   That's it.  Simple, right?  You don't have to stop and look up the rules there, you just play. 

Just play.  The cheaters are still going to cheat, the power gamers are still going to power game, the bad actors will still role play.  Just play.  They are the price you will pay for gaming.  If you want to make rules on something.... make people take a test to see if they actually know about the World of Darkness so people stop playing Backyard BBQ Sunday DnD Party with friends and maybe start to backstab and talk smack about one another like they should be doing with their PC's. 

Seriously, your REAL friends shouldn't get mad if your PC gets rid of theirs.  People don't cry when they lose in Connect Four.

anyway... just play.  Stop saying "We aren't the Cam" and then doing stupid cammie crap and just play.  Stop pissing off your people and just play. 

And it would probably help these addenda writers out a little if the players would just play too.  Everything is a two way street. 

just play

Pruitt

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Dave Hites

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Dave Hites

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Thomas J Thompson (EvilThomas)
USFL-2005-10-006
Hope's Minion
Assistant Charter Administrator Shattered Dreams Internet Charter
Assistant to the Director of Human Resources
The Insane MOOer
The Wierd Guy in the long black coat

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Lucas Westfall
USTX-2005-01-001
LRA President

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Dave Hites

USNC200504001
Club Director
Acting National Venue Lead Changeling

Aim: WillowGrayson