Warm edge spacer

[Phillip Kleinlauth]

I am running the Therm 7.4 program.  The spacer I am using is a warm edge spacer with a polycarbonate shim.  In the library there is only a Spacer.thm file .  When I look at the file in notepad, there is a line stating stainless steel.  So my question is can this spacer.thm file be used when the warm edge spacer does not have stainless steel, but a poly carbonate shim or is there another spacer.thm file I need to use when calculating U factors for an IGU using this spacer.

[Robin Mitchell]

First, I am wondering if you could be using 7.8 instead of 7.4.

Second, that spacer THERM file is just an example of a spacer. 

You should create a spacer in your THERM file that represents what the space is in the glazing system that you are modeling. If you can use the existing sample THERM file that's nice, but you can also just make your own. If you use the sample file, you will need to change it to represent the actual condition that you are trying to model.

Robin 

On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 12:47 PM Phillip Kleinlauth <directo...@tycoonglobal.ca> wrote:

I am running the Therm 7.4 program.  The spacer I am using is a warm edge spacer with a polycarbonate shim.  In the library there is only a Spacer.thm file .  When I look at the file in notepad, there is a line stating stainless steel.  So my question is can this spacer.thm file be used when the warm edge spacer does not have stainless steel, but a poly carbonate shim or is there another spacer.thm file I need to use when calculating U factors for an IGU using this spacer.

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Robin Mitchell

Building Technology and Urban Systems Division
Energy Technologies Area
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

[Collin Robinson]

Technoform and Quanex are two manufacturers of warm-edge spacers. 

[Robin Mitchell]

They might have THERM models for their spacers.

Robin Mitchell

Building Technology and Urban Systems Division
Energy Technologies Area
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

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[Phil Davies]

Not sure if the standard you are using allows the Two Box Method used in Europe for simulating such spacer bars, if you can, then it will save a lot of time and work in Therm or CAD. Especially with complex shaped spacers that have very thin walls. 

The Bundesverband-Flachglas (BF) group have tested many manufactures spacer bars, below is link to a Technoform product. 

Basically, there are two solid boxes, Box 1 being the secondary seal and Box 2 being everything else, i.e. spacer body, desiccant, primary seal etc. etc. each box has a defined lambda value given in w/m.k. 

 https://www.bundesverband-flachglas.de/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/BF-data-sheets-windows/20-W-EN-Technoform-Spacer-SP12-14-6-06-23.pdf

Alternatively, you could simulate the fully detailed spacer with all its associated materials in Therm (minus the glass, frame) to find is conductivity that you could use as a single material in your glazing and frame. An area weighted average sort of thing. 

Hope this helps. 

Phil Davies

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From: lbnl-...@googlegroups.com <lbnl-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robin Mitchell <rdmit...@lbl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2025 4:15:36 PM
To: Collin Robinson <spiri...@gmail.com>
Cc: THERM <lbnl-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [LBNL-THERM] Warm edge spacer

 

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[Robin Mitchell]

From another user

both Viracon and Cardinal have files for their warm air spacers. I would contact other manufacturers before trying to make your own.