Cross Section Type Overwrite

[Tyler Henderson]

Hi there,

Following up on my last question... I'm noticing that the properties in the header of the XML, such as <Title>, <Company>, <CrossSectionType> are overwritten when running opening a THMX file (either through the GUI or CLI) despite setting it to a different cross section type in the xml file. I don't see any parameters to set these values in the CLI. 

I'm assuming this is an error. I've tested this in THERM 7.8.74 and THERM 8.0. If there's any solution for this please let me know. Thanks.

[Robin Mitchell]

Tyler

I am not exactly sure what XML file you are referring to. Can you be more explicit and/or provide an example? 

Thanks

Robin 

--
You can view the THERM forum online at:
https://groups.google.com/g/LBNL-THERM
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "THERM" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LBNL-THERM+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/1c72388b-737a-4635-a130-2f09a3721890n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Robin Mitchell

Building Technology and Urban Systems Division
Energy Technologies Area
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

[Tyler Henderson]

Hi Robin,

I've attached an example therm and thmx file (that's the xml file I'm talking about). The section that is of main concern to me is the <CrossSectionType> tag in the header. To test this, you can change the value from Sill to Jamb. Once you open the thmx file (not the thm file) you will notice that it reverts back to Sill automatically. 

Please let me know if you need more info, thanks for looking into this!

[Robin Mitchell]

OK, thanks for the details. 

I will pass this along to the programmers. 

Robin

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/4e91f59b-1d97-4eb9-9498-0aec7bf63a08n%40googlegroups.com.

[Robin Mitchell]

Tyler

I am actually not able to reproduce this, at least in THERM 7.8.74

I have my preferences set like this

In the THERM file you sent, I have set the Cross Type Section to Head

When I do File/Save, the THMX file is generated. If I open it, I see this

I wonder if you are doing something different than I am to generate the results you are seeing. 

Robin 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/4e91f59b-1d97-4eb9-9498-0aec7bf63a08n%40googlegroups.com.

[Tyler Henderson]

Hi Robin,

If I'm understanding correctly, you are setting the CrossSectionType in THERM and it is updating in the THMX. This works for me as well. 

The issue I'm having is going the other way. When setting the CrossSectionType in the thmx and opening the thmx in THERM, the CrossSectionType defaults back to Sill. 

[Robin Mitchell]

Aha !!!

Thanks, I will test that and update our issue !

Robin

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/8867a993-0889-46f6-93a2-3b999e0400c2n%40googlegroups.com.

[Robin Mitchell]

I can definitely reproduce this issue. 

Thanks for pointing it out. 

Not sure when it will get fixed, but it's now on the list !

Robin 

[Tyler Henderson]

Thanks Robin! I appreciate it.

[Tyler Henderson]

Hi Robin,

Just checking on this, is there any update on when this bug could possibly be fixed?

[Robin Mitchell]

Tyler

I'm not sure when we will fix this in the 7.8 version. 

We are actually putting all our development effort into 8, and it could be that is where it will get fixed. 

I am curious about your use case, ie, that you are changing the cross section in the XML file and then importing it into THERM. 

Are you running lots of models, and it is easier to change the cross section in a script editing the XML files rather than doing it through the UI? 

Also, what is the use case of your THERM modeling? Is it for NFRC certification, or other use? 

Thanks

Robin 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/cdd80713-bf90-456e-aef1-e0d4d4370e8cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Robin Mitchell]

We plan to fix this issue and put out a new version of WINDOW and THERM 7.8 in the next month or so. 

Robin

[Tyler Henderson]

That's great to hear. Thanks for the update Robin!

[Phillip Kleinlauth]

Does anyone have a value for the conductivity of Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET).  I need it when running the U value simulation using a warm edge spacer that has PET in it.

Regards,

Phil Kleinlauth

479-900-1229

---

From: lbnl-...@googlegroups.com <lbnl-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tyler Henderson <tyler.b...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2025 4:20 PM
To: THERM <lbnl-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [LBNL-THERM] Cross Section Type Overwrite

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/12202017-ab1e-4e09-a867-d810f8dc0b5bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Tyler Henderson]

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure why this was posted on this thread, but all technical documents regarding NFRC (including the 101 which will have material properties) can be found here: https://nfrccommunity.org/global_engine/download.aspx?fileid=DFE5C410-6A63-4961-9A7B-E000D8D74C35

However I don't see PET listed in the 101 as of now. If you are interested at having NFRC simulations done for your product feel free to reach out at thend...@laytonconsulting.com.

[Phil Davies]

PET comes in many guises, virgin, recycled, part recycled, ranging from 0.15 - 0.24 W/m.k or even aerogel-esk at 0.035 - 0.038 W/m.k.

Can you say which warm-edge spacer it is, i.e. product and manufacture?

Phil Davies

---

From: lbnl-...@googlegroups.com <lbnl-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Phillip Kleinlauth <directo...@tycoonglobal.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:02 pm
To: Tyler Henderson <tyler.b...@gmail.com>; THERM <lbnl-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [LBNL-THERM] conductivity

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/SJ0PR02MB7360BBC8C45737AF18BD6DC3A7B52%40SJ0PR02MB7360.namprd02.prod.outlook.com.

[D. Charlie Curcija/LBNL]

Some people have already answered with recommended value range, but of course it is best to get it directly from manufacturer. On the other hand, you can also ignore thin PET film. The difference in results would be miniscule and you will be on the conservative side.

Charlie

On Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 11:02:30 AM UTC-7 directo...@tycoonglobal.ca wrote:

[Matthew Gardner]

Just wanted to add that I noticed this same issue and was just living with it, so great to hear there's going to be a fix soon!

Didn't catch what the original posters use case was but mine was for running batches of models with different boundary conditions than the original.  My program copied the xml files, edited the contents to change the boundary condition definitions, then simulated the .thm files created from the edited .thmx files through the command line interface - but the orientation was the one thing that wasn't getting updated.